Sweat Price

[Hanna]

Would you buy sweat at 0.1 if someone could justify it?

There are several things in EUs economy that's "off". A struggling "middleclass" are paying for not just the giant globals and HoFs of the advanced crafters and hunters, but also every selfmade man or woman in EU. With the star crafters, miners, and hunters it can be justified. Chances are they have spent a lot of time and money getting where they are. With the orange jumpsuits who gather exesive amounts of sweat to sell, it isnt. If you spend a good week sweating you will accumulate a lt of sweat, atleast 10k. This is then sold for 50-60 ped.

You might not see a problem, you might even think well done OJ, a self made man in a harsh environment. Consider this, when someone who has contributed nothing, gathers 50 ped, or 100, or 500, mindark doesnt pay for it. Nor does Neverdie or skallman or any other high profile player. Every selfmade player, promotion, or guide, is paid for by the struggling middle class. Every Hof, Global, or sweat trade doesnt just pop up from nowhere like in other games, it all comes from mindarks turnover, their income, which in turn is paid for by depositers, first timers and regulars.

There are many pervers phenomenas in EU. Why a birght green lime coat is 300 ped I will never understand. You would never get me to wear a thing like that in the real world, even if I was paid. How a gun can be cheaper than a small pall stol is also surreal.
But the price of sweat, that is somehting that can be changed without affecting the turnover of any established player, and would only hurt the freeloaders. It is artificially high even at 0.6, people might stop sweating if it drops too low, but at the moment the supply is still higher than that of nexus. I cant help but think it's this high because people are afraid to be seen as cheapscates if they give an "unfair" price, so this is an attempt to justify paying 0.5 or less, and with a clean conscience.

Before you judge me consider this, I dont buy or sell sweat. The little I use I usually gather for myself or get from my diciples at a very generous rate from my side. Since it's more motivating than just giving them a rifle and ammo, and weeds out any diciple just there for freebies. I would have no short term gain from a pricedrop in sweat, but it would help the economy and as such, all regulars would have a lng term gain....except the largescale traders who would get a (tiny) dent in their profits, and the freeloaders.

 

[CycoKick]

Well i really dont fucking care to be honest
And i could point out a million of reasons to counter everything you say.
But i wont as im to lazy and not in the mood to do so and start a new discussion about this shit.

 

[Hanna]

Well if you didnt fucking care then why did you reply to it at all

 

[desg90]

... And i could point out a million of reasons to counter everything you say.
But i wont as im to lazy and not in the mood to do so and start a new discussion about this shit.

Same here. But, I'll give it a try.

I see you aren't considering the amount of time invested by sweaters.
To have any gains one has to spend a week or even a month doing nothing but sweat mobs, aggressive mobs BTW. It's not a fun activity to do, but time = money and vice-versa.

Sweaters invest lots of time to gain some money.
And Mindtropians invest lots of money to gain some time.

In any case sweater efforts seem to be underestimated.
Sweaters provide a service for lazy Entropians, that should be a good enough excuse to request payment, don't you think?
I'm surprised people won't pay a tip or something.

And I seriously don't think of sweating as a "cancer".
It's a part of the economy, and if MA hasn't stopped it... it mustn't be that bad!

 

[Kerham]

You're in a paradox here. You joined EU coz it's for free, but you don't want other players to experiment for free

The biggest problem of EU is human greed -> stupid comunity wanting higher and higher hofs.

The markup is a natural mechanism and without it, the EU itself wouldn't exist. Way much more important than the markup of sweat is the markup of blausarium. And with tremendous higher effect.


P.S.: the price isn't regulated by MindArk, the droprate and accessibility of it is. If tomorrow MF update would come, with same number of sweaters and same availability of sweat, I bet that the sweat would be easy 2-3 pec/bottle.

P.S.2: your choice of title is... unfit.

 

[Gondorf]

Would you buy sweat at 0.1 if someone could justify it?

It isnt really a question of what I would pay though is it, it is a question of what I have to pay because that is the market price. I would pay 1PED for a modfap and full supremacy but I can't because that is not the price that the market had decided for these items. I could hang around PA spamming "Buying sweat for 0.1" but it would be a very lonely existence.

P.S.: the price isn't regulated by MindArk, the droprate and accessibility of it is. If tomorrow MF update would come, with same number of sweaters and same availability of sweat, I bet that the sweat would be easy 2-3 pec/bottle.

Absolutely right! IMHO you have hit the proverbial nail on the head there.
Entropia, i think, is a pretty damn close approximation to a free market, you can buy and sell what you want from whoever you want. Sweat is but one commodity that exists for trade in this market and as such is directly affected by supply and demand. The interaction of these two forces, over time, has deemed that the price should be about 0.6 under current conditions

You can no more influence the price of it than you can influence the price of bread at your local supermarket by argueing with the checkout boy/girl. The sweat price is influenced by how much of it there is (and how easy it is to get it) and how many uses there are for it (and therefore how many buyers).

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant there

 

[Kosh]

Like Kerham pointed out, your title is very unapropiate.

You assume that "middle class" players pay for all those crafting hofs, are you aware of the fact that you can spam global chat for 2 hours straight and still lose a few k' peds? Globals really do'nt mean anything. A "middle class" player can and some do profit or break even, just as very high skilled players can lose.

What you say is exactly like all the "raise the sweat price" threads. The same answer applies here: supplly/demand. No control by anyone apart from MA can achieved, in neither direction.
If it should be cheaper it will be cheaper in time.

 

[redler]

Do u realize sweat is pure profit for MA!!

How?...well ppl sweat it for free then sell it. Its made into ME which is then used, mostly for TP'ing or healing, focus skilling etc. The ME user gets no peds bk for using ME in this way, the money he paid goes straight to MA!! Its win, win all the way for MA this is why it will never be stopped.

Most other online gambling games give u free money to get u started,(infact 1 bingo site i joined gives me £5 free every month), this game makes u work for a very small amount of introduction money(not their money, but other players money) and then gets it all bk, geeee what a perfect business plan, wish i'd thought of it.

 

[Gondorf]

Do u realize sweat is pure profit for MA!!

And so what if it is ?

Dont get me wrong, I am not criticising you pesonally, but why is that such a major issue?

I deposit my own money each month when I receive my payslip. That is pure profit for MA too surely ? Ok I may (although it is extremely unlikely) get lucky (and we could go on about that forever ) but really as soon as it is out of my account it goes to MA and becomes part of their turnover figure.

BUT...i dont think it is pure profit for MA at all.
1. The sweat was harvested without any investment from the sweater (we shall assume) and is therefore "given" to the sweater by the game
2. He/she sells it to another av.
3. It is used on that av's next TP jump, and is essentially "given back"

It never really went anywhere, it is just a catalyst for the use of ForceNexus.

 

[Hanna]

I know the title isnt fitting, but as a title it does the job. It attracted your attention. It seemed more tastefull than putting sex in there

I never suggested sweaters shouldnt be paid, just that they should be paid a lot less.

You're in a paradox here. You joined EU coz it's for free, but you don't want other players to experiment for free

I didnt join EU because it's free, I joined PE because it was a virtual world where you (at the time) was offered a virtual world where you could hunt, craft, or just pursue a a virtual life in a manner which has later been done by second life. I deposited on my third day after learning the basic controls and making a few friends.

What you say is exactly like all the "raise the sweat price" threads. The same answer applies here: supplly/demand. No control by anyone apart from MA can achieved, in neither direction.
If it should be cheaper it will be cheaper in time.

I am very aware that the market system is free,
and in a free market prices regulate themselves. The sweat price has done that to great success, constantly falling since entropia started, despite the efforts of the sweat socs such as sweathogs and whoever. without all the efforts of the united sweaters it would probably have fallen even faster.
There are not many advocates for lowering the sweat prices because it is "politically incorrect".

Of all the shortcomings in EU the price of sweat would affect the common player the least, no one would lose any actual money, unlike if say blau were to become as common as oil, or thin wool as common as animal hides.

you cant claim that the economy is working when a tiny apartment cost 500 ped, and another 500 ped to modestly furnish it. EU has moved away from being a virtual world to a pure hinting and mining gambling game.

1. The sweat was harvested without any investment from the sweater (we shall assume) and is therefore "given" to the sweater by the game

That was my starting point. But it is "given" by the turnover depsoiters supply mindark with. When you have a bottle of sweat you dont have the hard efforts of a poor OJ, you have 0.006 PED of a financial contributor to the game given by someone else. If I were to hypoteticly buy 10k sweat, it would only cost me 60 PED, which is affordable. But if you add it up with all the other players who buys 10k's on a regular basis, it becomes a large lump of money purely used to finance freeloaders who will either withdraw it, or use it on a tt for hutning equipment. If I paid 10 PED for the same amount, I and everyone else would have 50 PED more to use on other expenses and purchases, and allthough I'm sure some of that money would in most cases go to more repairs and ammo, a lot of it would go into the non hunting/mining economy making for a healthier economy in the other fields.

When people argue that everything is working, they forget that not ALL of us play the mining/hunting game

 

[andyzammy]

ffs just depo

 

[Hanna]

ffs just depo

I make a small deposit every month, usually 20-30 USD.

My underlining point was that it is the economy itself that is off, and lowering the sweat prices would be a first step to fix it.
EU is not place for people who dont hunt or mine anymore with these prices. And it still claims it is. I really se no point to why something like a pair of shades or a picture fram should cost 30 USD.

 

[andyzammy]

I make a small deposit every month, usually 20-30 USD.

My underlining point was that it is the economy itself that is off, and lowering the sweat prices would be a first step to fix it.
EU is not place for people who dont hunt or mine anymore with these prices. And it still claims it is. I really se no point to why something like a pair of shades or a picture fram should cost 30 USD.

you're in the minority if you think that. sweat does very little to influence the economy. you can see this from the hundreds of failed attempts at manipulating the sweat prices higher, as well as your own poll.

the REAL economy of the game, where the miners supply the crafters supply the hunters supply the crafters supply the miners etc etc has a TONN of money flowing through it. sweating through the game can't get a player through all that on a daily basis. i have a few friends in the soc who have never depo'd, but sure they can play. thing is, its a very slow operation and they don't fly through it swimmingly.

yup, deffo is weired that trivial stuff costs so much in here, but that comes down to the cost to make those things, as well as the demand for them. neither of these 2 can be blamed on people sweating, it just doesn't make sense. i say: those guys who wana spend money on McCormik safes and Lyyke chests.. just leave 'em to it, and let the smart guys just use storage. some people have money to burn.. others... either depo less.. or just sweat

 

[Mega]

To people like Hanna who complain that 0.6 pec a bottle is too high I say this:

Sweat until you get 1000 bottles (about 3-4 hours) and if you think it was fun then you can make your own mind essence, by mining or buying the Force Nexus.

If you didnt enjoy that then you can pay someone else 60cents to do it for you. At about 20 cents an hour they arent going to be buying a hangar any time soon



I disagree that 0.6 pec a bottle is too high (lowest it has ever been btw), if it falls below that price, people tend to stop sweating.


Most people only use it for teleporting anyway.

 

[BrianMik]

I really se no point to why something like a pair of shades or a picture fram should cost 30 USD.

Then just don't buy it.

I originally thought clothing ingame was pointless to spend money on, especially considering some items cost more ingame than real life.
Thats so absurd its awesome imho

MA isn't able to give 'freebies' like sweat and fruit because of their profits as you say. These things have virtually 0 TT so it doesn't cost MA anything.
The money is moving from the Mindtropian/Tamer to the Sweater/Gatherer for their service.

Items are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Bottom line.

 

[Rayne Jade]

Items are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Bottom line.

So simple it seems to escape everyone... read it again and again if needed. This is all there is too it... really.

 

[Grounder]

Hello,

As most of the previous posts have illustrated - It appears you can not, at this time and under current circumstances, pay less than 0.6/bottle with a clear conscience. However, the final choice and judge of that is you.

You are part of the free market. If all you are willing to pay for sweat is 0.1 then feel free to place that limit on yourself. If others will pay more the sellers will go to them and you will not need to be bothered by them.

Please feel assured that the price of sweat has almost nothing to do with the price of your clothes or sunglasses. It does affect the price of ME and nutrio but if that bothers you you my gather your own sweat and avoid the issue.

Speaking as a "freeloader" I am glad there are those willing to pay above market rate for sweat under the right circumstances. I also understand that the product I collect and the service I provide to those who do not wish to sweat is valued at historic lows at the moment and that is OK. The free market tells me what the service I provide is worth and I make the determination of whether or not it is worth my time to sell at that rate. Just like your choice to buy, I have a choice at what rate to sell. If either of us is too far off the market norm we will be quite lonely.

I think you need to re-evaluate what sweat is intended for and see it added value it provides. MA did, and they chose to remove the sweat cap. It give people a chance to start free, continue free if they don't mind a slower pace and gives people the introduction that often creates the next generation of depositors.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the depositors as the game could not exist without you. I also want to thank all those that buy sweat, from me and others, that provides the means to play. I am truely gratefull.

Grounder

 

[Alice]

a "lower the sweat price" thread, that is new

wonder when we see the first socs

i actually consider a "lower the mod fap price" thread, but i didn't do it yet
just to show one similarity
before you could buy them for around 1k ped, later for 200 000 ped now for, dunno, 400 000 ped

imagine you bought one at 1000 ped, and sell at 400 000, and withdraw that cash
that is gonna hurt the economy

one of your points is, that if a newbie who just sweated hunts and miners, and since all get the 5k exarosaurs young, this is taken from the loot of the depositers and that the "loot pool" which is fed by deposits
think about this:

imagine you just stay at CND, and mine and hunt there
ND alone withdraws a shitload of that cash, or do you think he spends that all ingame?
other Landowners too
each month

now, i doubt that whole sweating community could EVER get close to the amount that is withdrawn by Landowners, pilots etc.

i guess thats a far higher force which hurts the "loot pool", no?

you also stated that you sweat yourself mainly
for teleporting that works pretty nice indeed, you don't need much

but if you want to unlock ethereal language, or generally skill in MF, with sweating this is gonna take a while
you can argue that it gives conc too, but well, i guess most want to buy the ME
if you use heal chips or attack chips, they are hilarious uneco
thus leading to higher deposits, but the ppl who use it are well aware of this, and the skills seem to be worth it for them
also the ME, it wouldnt be at 200%+ else


most say sweating is a demo, and it is a very hard one
"deposit!" you might say
but would you buy something you haven't seen or tested before?
and sweating isn't necessarily the best impression you can get

just lower the sweat price to force many many possible depositers, or coming struggling mid level players to leave

newbies don't have it that easy, don't demand to make it even worse
0.6 is acceptable, but below 0.5, nah
why bother ^^

if you want better loot, that sweat price is the last point to attack, i doubt the newbies will agree they get that much loot

 

[Zwarka]

Do u realize sweat is pure profit for MA!!
How?...well ppl sweat it for free then sell it. Its made into ME which
is then used, mostly for TP'ing or healing, focus skilling etc. The ME
user gets no peds bk for using ME in this way, the money he paid goes
straight to MA!! Its win, win all the way for MA this is why it will never
be stopped.

It's right that i don't get Peds back by using Teleport-Chips, but the
Money I pay for ME don't go to MA. The Money I pay for ME goes
in Pocket of the Sweating People and Nexus Miner and Trader (only a
very small part goes MA (Refiner Decay)) ... Think about it and you will
see that sweat isn't pure profit for MA.

 

[blaik79]

I am very aware that the market system is free,
and in a free market prices regulate themselves. The sweat price has done that to great success, constantly falling since entropia started, despite the efforts of the sweat socs such as sweathogs and whoever. without all the efforts of the united sweaters it would probably have fallen even faster.
There are not many advocates for lowering the sweat prices because it is "politically incorrect".

Actually, I would say(based on what I've read and talked about with long time players) that its more the removal of the sweat caps and skill limits to sweat gathering that brought about the drop in sweat prices. When each ava could only collect a limited amount of sweat per timeframe, and once at a certain skill level unable to gather at all, there's an artificial cap on supply, therefore raising the price somewhat regardless of demand(players buying up sweat they're not using to sell in bulk for higher prices). Once the limits were taken off sweat gathering, you had a huge increase in supply, while there was no real increase in demand, thereby slowly driving the price down as inventory grew and people were lowering selling price to be competitive.

That was my starting point. But it is "given" by the turnover depsoiters supply mindark with. When you have a bottle of sweat you dont have the hard efforts of a poor OJ, you have 0.006 PED of a financial contributor to the game given by someone else. If I were to hypoteticly buy 10k sweat, it would only cost me 60 PED, which is affordable. But if you add it up with all the other players who buys 10k's on a regular basis, it becomes a large lump of money purely used to finance freeloaders who will either withdraw it, or use it on a tt for hutning equipment. If I paid 10 PED for the same amount, I and everyone else would have 50 PED more to use on other expenses and purchases, and allthough I'm sure some of that money would in most cases go to more repairs and ammo, a lot of it would go into the non hunting/mining economy making for a healthier economy in the other fields.

When people argue that everything is working, they forget that not ALL of us play the mining/hunting game

First you assume, that everyone sweating is a)non-depositing and b) freeloading. I know of players that are regular depositors that I run into out in the fields sweating alongside me. Its an easy way to pick up a few PEDs in between deposits. And then there's those of us that are still trying to figure out what we want to do....me personally, I've been doing some experimentation to figure out what I like doing first...I've hunted and mined, but mostly as a way to get me in a situation where I can try my hand at crafting using the resources gathered from hunting and mining, from equipment paid for with sweat. Once I figure out what I want to invest my money in(I use the word invest loosely, its pretty much certain its money lost), I will work out a way to deposit and get the money in game. And whether you spend that 50ped or they do, its spent, and that's the whole point in an economy. And I can pretty much guarantee you anyone that's putting forth the effort to gather 10k sweat is not going to just turn around and withdraw that money, but instead put it back into the loot pool or purchase materials to craft, however a person wants to look at it.

Secondly, you overlook the fact that the price of sweat is more based on the opportunity cost of gathering sweat. Technically sweat is free, as anyone that wants can gather it. However, it does take a lot of time to collect. Time that can be spent doing other things, which are more enjoyable/profitable/skillable/etc...whatever you want to say. Sweaters provide a service in that they put forth the time to gather large amounts of sweat and make them readily available for those that don't want to take the time to sweat it out themselves. To those people, their time is worth .006PED per bottle of sweat, or whatever the agreed upon price is.

Now there are exceptions based on players that buy sweat at higher prices merely to help out noobs, and sweat resellers that marginally affect sweat prices, but for the most part, every sweat buyer and seller falls into this definition.

To that end, there is no need to tamper with sweat prices in either direction. Sweat is completely unfettered...the only true free market item in Entropia. Let economic factors affect its price. And if the price is too high for you, then go sweat it yourself...all 4 days worth of sweating. Then look back and decide whether or not the price was too high.

I'm not trying to start a fight, just saying you have to try to gauge the opportunity cost before blindly rushing to conclusions.

 

[BrianMik]

Once the limits were taken off sweat gathering, you had a huge increase in supply, while there was no real increase in demand, thereby slowly driving the price down as inventory grew and people were lowering selling price to be competitive..

In addition, you can now acquire more bottles of sweat per successful attempt. 22 bottles is the max now i believe, compared to 3 or 4 bottles.

Can somebody verify the most you could get with the old system? I didn't sweat until I had played for almost a year so I never tried back then

Although, while sweat was over 1 pec/bottle but they might actually have made less per hour sweating if they are only pulling 3 or 4 bottles at a time. Can anyone comment on this?

 

[Hanna]

Sweating does very little to the whole economy I agree, and personally I couldnt care if it was 3.0 or 0.1. I wouldnt buy the stuff from anyone but my diciples regardless, and then I pay 1.0.
I brought up the sweating as an example, because lowering the price wouldnt actually hurt anyone already playing, unlike seriously changing the supply or frequency of BPs.
I wanted to spurr a debate about the economy, but only Alice seem to have caught that.

As the matra goes...

Items are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Bottom line.

With this prospect in mind, I can conlcude that PE has gone from being a virtual world, to just another online game with focus on "unting monsters and crafting. And frankly neither are things I consider particularly fun. Also it might have been original at some point, but now compared to other simmilar places, EU is mediocre.

And sorry guys, if I suggested your toy wasn't the coolest virtual toy.
EU is the best thing like ever, and I wont keep you anymore from going off to kill 400 argos and possibly break even in the process.

 

[Xen]

If you don't like the price of sweat, don't pay it and sweat for yourself as you say you do. Others apparently think it is worth it, or they wouldn't be paying the price. I fail to see the problem here, probably because there isn't one.

 

[andyzammy]

Sweating does very little to the whole economy I agree, and personally I couldnt care if it was 3.0 or 0.1. I wouldnt buy the stuff from anyone but my diciples regardless, and then I pay 1.0.
I brought up the sweating as an example, because lowering the price wouldnt actually hurt anyone already playing, unlike seriously changing the supply or frequency of BPs.
I wanted to spurr a debate about the economy, but only Alice seem to have caught that.

As the matra goes...



With this prospect in mind, I can conlcude that PE has gone from being a virtual world, to just another online game with focus on "unting monsters and crafting. And frankly neither are things I consider particularly fun. Also it might have been original at some point, but now compared to other simmilar places, EU is mediocre.

And sorry guys, if I suggested your toy wasn't the coolest virtual toy.
EU is the best thing like ever, and I wont keep you anymore from going off to kill 400 argos and possibly break even in the process.

you "want" the sweat price lowered, yet you pay 1.0 (fine, to disciples, its a good cause but still its a bit coo-coo imo), you don't like hunting, mining OR crafting, but you just want to have the most expensive hobby in game and you basically want it to be cheaper. bottom line, you're playing the wrong game.

 

[matthew]

Well i really dont fucking care to be honest
And i could point out a million of reasons to counter everything you say.
But i wont as im to lazy and not in the mood to do so and start a new discussion about this shit.

im sry to be so harsh but well said

 

[Hanna]

If you don't like the price of sweat, don't pay it and sweat for yourself as you say you do. Others apparently think it is worth it, or they wouldn't be paying the price. I fail to see the problem here, probably because there isn't one.

If you dont see the problem I suggest you read the actual thread before you post.

im sry to be so harsh but well said

If you actually didnt care you would just ignore the whole thread. But to raise the debate to your level, I can think of a million counter arguments to make yours void, and then one more

 

[Xen]

If you dont see the problem I suggest you read the actual thread before you post.

I did read the thread. It is not affecting the economy more than the price of anything else. The price is what people agree to buy and sell at. Again, I fail to see the problem.

 

[Hanna]

I did read the thread. It is not affecting the economy more than the price of anything else. The price is what people agree to buy and sell at. Again, I fail to see the problem.

Then I should calrify, the problem is the economy itself, that sweating is a part of. I could think of several more drastic meassures that would hurt mre than OJ's having to work five times harder. Most items are not expensive to make, regardless of what the raw materials cost, but the supply is held back by lack of BPs. Just take mannell shoes, it used to be a luxury, the BP was sold at tt+30 for 1.0 quality, which was mostly due to the fact that very few used it. Compared to today with the number of crafters, and resellers, it would have been much more. But during the last year it has become as common as toiletpaper would be (if there where any restrooms on calypso, make a note of that mindark, more restrooms). As such Mannell shoes in themselves are more than affordable, and you pay for the colouring job.

Another unpopular suggestion would be antitrust measures. Everything that goes into operating and maintaining a spaceship has goen down. Crude Oil was priced at 180% at one point. Yet a ticket to space cost the same as when CND opened.

A working free market implies that each competitor are given the same opportunity to excel, not being held back by price agreements or being refused to prduce goods because the availability of certain BPs are being held back.

When I made the first post it was placed in the trading section of the forum, not the sweat one. Lowering sweat price is a small but generally painless step in improving the economy, and I was hoping others would like to elaborate on their thoughts about how to imporve the economy for people that dont own one of three existing BPs to make something, or a spacestation or whatever.

I did not expect to be sworn at in the first reply, be acused of trying to profit of sweaters, and being too lenient towards my sweating diciples, of being to cheap too deposit, and of being too lazy to not deposit

 

[blaik79]

And what Alice, and in parallel I have been trying to say is that like you, we believe it will have little or no effect on the world economy, but it will have the effect of turning away a lot of OJ's that are trying the game out, getting their legs and learning what they enjoy most before beginning to deposit, just like anyone involved in the stock market would do, research before investing(granted I realized odds of making gains are slim unless major investment is made).

So as far as bolstering the economy goes, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone that would think that artificially pushing down the price of sweat to .001ped is going to be beneficial (unless they're looking to make ME gains, but then you'll see an increase in demand for Force Nexus, causing the price to spike on it, effectively balancing out the price of ME at close to current market, although that's greatly debated).

Besides, I doubt seriously MA is going to allow that to happen. They may not give much tt value to sweat, dung, or fruit, but all three are obviously vital and necessary to certain parts of the game(I suspect part of the reason that 1k sweat = .01ped is that everything has to be assigned some kind of value to keep the DB from pooping itself, so they give it the lowest possible...I'm not sure if fruit or dung has similar value, I've never seen 1k of either at one time). Its one of those things that doesn't cost them anything, but is their only way to say this game is free to play. If they allowed prices to get so low that it would take noobs weeks to accumulate enough to do anything, they'd have a drastic reduction in the number of casual gamers that downloaded the game on a whim, played it a bit, and decided to deposit and end up addicted. If my suspicions are right, there's currently not a huge number of those types of players, nothing near the numbers that MA had back in the "heyday". And letting sweat get to ridiculously low prices would drive even more of them away. That's money not only not going into MA's pocket's, but not going into the hands of other players via sales and/or the loot pool.

I agree with Alice, in the fact that compared to what ND and some of the affluent landowners are withdrawing on a regular basis the "leaching" by sweaters is minimal, and I'd say a good 95% of the time the peds earned by sweaters are reinvested into the game and loot pool, benefiting us all.

Hanna, I believe you said something about this not being a truly free market? I think you're absolutely right, except when it comes to the sweat market. MA doesn't touch it, other than removing the sweat cap, and it obeys basic laws of supply and demand. So let's not screw around with it, and let the natural laws of economics run with it as it can. If that means the price of sweat gets driven down, so be it. But let's not do that artificially.

 

[RedBlack]

Well i really dont fucking care to be honest
And i could point out a million of reasons to counter everything you say.
But i wont as im to lazy and not in the mood to do so and start a new discussion about this shit.

Somehow I dont think this helped this thread at all.