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The 1x0 situation

Crys said:
MA should be glad that so many ppl hunted argo with rascal and axes, which became legendary as one of the very few ways to avoid losing your shirt. melee sux and just makes for more decay when you use that style of hunting. because, come ON, any time you have to run right up to the mob to hit it with your 5m range weapon is gonna result in lots of fap/armor decay.

meanwhile, lots of players around here, normally referred to as uber, stand safely at a distance from that wargen5 and kill it with their camo jungle before it ever hits them. hm =D

whens the last time you saw starman running around owning mobs and getting uberhofs with an axe? an axe is a noob weapon. no big deal.
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Exactly. Why MindArk made ranged weapons have better economy (dmg/pec) than the melee ones I still don't know. :loco:

A poll here:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6280&page=1&pp=10
 
whips are the best average dmg ingame, yes, thats a known fact. but few ppl seem to realize why. and the reason why is also the reason why whips are a poor benchmark concerning this stuff with the 1x0.

the reason dmg is awesome with a whip is that obviously, a whip is no badass hunting weapon. its strictly for taming. but whips do high dmg with low skill. axes do low dmg with low skill. so if it takes high skill to get the best results from a weapon, then since a whip is for low dmg in order to tame, thats why ya get high dmg most of the time resulting in nice ROI.

why a whip 'should' do low dmg with good skills? cuz you tame an animal by beating it down, but not killing it.

after all, look what MA does to us =D
 
Crys said:
whips are the best average dmg ingame, yes, thats a known fact. but few ppl seem to realize why. and the reason why is also the reason why whips are a poor benchmark concerning this stuff with the 1x0.

the reason dmg is awesome with a whip is that obviously, a whip is no badass hunting weapon. its strictly for taming. but whips do high dmg with low skill. axes do low dmg with low skill. so if it takes high skill to get the best results from a weapon, then since a whip is for low dmg in order to tame, thats why ya get high dmg most of the time resulting in nice ROI.
why a whip 'should' do low dmg with good skills? cuz you tame an animal by beating it down, but not killing it.

after all, look what MA does to us =D
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So if I understand you correctly, which i am sure i did not, if I skill whip and then pull out my skills with a chip, i will be using the most economical weapon in the most economical way? Surely we just discovered a bug, or a possible exploit?
 
ViagraFalls said:
So if I understand you correctly, which i am sure i did not, if I skill whip and then pull out my skills with a chip, i will be using the most economical weapon in the most economical way? Surely we just discovered a bug, or a possible exploit?
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hehe- but not with the ME Cobra ;)
I've always had my best efficiency in game using my cobra me and would highly recommend it... although there aren't THAT many around so you must be willing to pay up front... but well worth it imo for most melee hunters :girl:
 
Whips do have one flaw though - they miss all the time, and not due to lag. Non-lag (evade) misses DO make it decay, but it is still better than 1x0 :)
 
Official complaint regarding VU 7.6 - the degradation of the RepEdge Battle Axe 1x0

As I stated in another thread, I've mailed Marco, with an official complaint about the degradation of the 1x0 axe.

It is not my intention to restart the whole discussion again, but just to keep all of you posted on what goes on. So please don't discuss here, but take this as for your information ;)

mail to Marco said:
Dear Marco,


With this e-mail I want to file an official complaint, regarding the degradation of the damage of the 1x0 axe.

With the 7.6 version update of Project Entropia, the afore mentioned axe was degraded a full 5 damage points, namely the electric damage was taken away from the axe.

This degradation means that the axe does almost 20% less damage per swing. This is not a small tweak in my opinion, but a huge change.

In the VU 7.6 content list, this change is listed as :

Fixed bugged items
Fixed a bugged melee weapon – the RepEdge Battle Axe 1x0 no longer does the strange electrical damage.

My profession for the last decade has been senior software developer ( amongst project manager and technical consultant ), for both a major financial software company and for a workflow company, both the leading companies in their field in The Netherlands. It is my personal and professional opinion that a bug should be fixed as soon as possible. And bugs should be announced the moment they arise, to make sure people know about them and keep them into account.

It is my understanding that the axe has been introduced some year and a half ago, doing the exact damage and damage type it has done before the last VU. I started playing last December, and I've never known the axe was bugged, nor was it announced on the PE website, like other known issues are mentioned.

Since I can't reasonably know what are bugs and what not, I can only go by the statistics of items as they are ( and have been for more than a reasonable amount of time ) in Project Entropia. I base my decisions on these statistics and invest my hard earned real money into the massive virtual universe with a real cash economy.

With me thousands ( and more likely tens of thousands ) of other real people have invested in and strategically played with the axe, and suddenly the statistics have changed by more than a small amount.

How would you react if the Swedish government makes a decision that taxes on houses are increased by 20%, effectively decreasing the value of the house you own with 20% ? Or you take your 200 horsepower car to the garage and you get it returned, but it's now only 160 HP, devaluating it's value dramatically. Or when your salary drops 20%, because the government decides they've made a mistake in setting up the taxes, way before your time ?

I know in this case, it's only a low level battle axe, but that's not my point. For this virtual universe to work, one has to have a high level of trust in its economy. I've invested real money into PE, and changes like this disrupt the way economies work.

The same goes for the sudden increase in GSI drops, not too long ago. This is also an example where the economy was greatly influenced, in a bad way for people who've invested real money into virtual items in Project Entropia.

I'm sure you've visited the forums and read the posts by all people who feel wronged by this. I know I'm not alone in feeling like this, hence this e-mail.

I think, because you've neglected to mention the so-called bug in the axe for so long, you can't claim it's a bug anymore. After a year and a half, it's become a feature.

This is not fair towards the community, upon which your company depends. There are almost 300,000 people in Project Entropia, and they don't deserve to have this happen to them. They have faith in the real cash economy which MindArk claims Project Entropia has, but below the surface appearantly doesn't have. It feels a lot like the Project Entropia real cash economy is manipulated in MindArks advantage.

This axe is not the only axe to do electric damage ( the Thorifoid Battle Axe also does a great amount of electrical damage ), but if you feel that the electric damage is a bug on this axe, the 5 points of damage should be transferred to the other types of damage this axe does, to keep the total damage on 29. Simply because this axe has been doing this maximum damage from its introduction and no announcements were made to warn ( new ) players that sometime in the future this axe would be greatly adjusted downwards.

Another option would be to make the existing axes ( before the VU 7.6 ) adjusted or improved and keep their maximum damage on 29, and only apply the new statistics to axes dropped after the last VU.

I think there are plenty of ways this can be corrected and I would like to hear your view on this whole issue Marco. I know many players are very unhappy with this and are pondering to sell everything in PE, or leave or even post their unhappiness about this whole issue on websites like mmorpg.com. I'm sure you understand how important the community is to both Project Entropia and MindArk.

I do plan on posting this e-mail and your reply on Entropia Forum, to share it with the community. If you prefer to keep this conversation between us, could you please state so in your reply ?


With kind regards,


Jeroen, a.k.a. The Lone Ranger
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And the official reply by Marco, only half an hour later...

I am not quite content with this answer, it sounds like a lot of marketing bla bla and although Marco is correct in stating that bugs need to be fixed, I miss the answer on how this fix affects the PE economy and the faith of players in PE, investing their well earned real money. I'm thinking on a reply...

Marco Berhmann said:
Hello!

Thank you for your feedback and opinions on this matter.

The Axe change was due to a bug, in the way that the Electrical Damage was never supposed to be there in the first place. How it came to be there is being investigated. A new system is being instated to make sure such issues will never happen again.

This means that the users of the axe has had an intended advantage from the time they began using the axe up till the fix. Those using the Axe had (unknowingly) used a bugged item, and therefore (of course) no repercussions will fall on any of them.
As to the comparison you make, they are not quite right - it is rather like you have paid too little tax for a while, but the tax ministry, when they find out, does not ask you for the missing amount (because you where not aware of the issue).

It is unforuntate the issue wasn't noticed sooner, but when discovered, it was recified and now the Axe has the stats it is supposed to have, being a low-level common item.

I fully understand that changes are disrupting, but letting bugs be present is even more disrupting. MindArk has stated before that all bugged items will, in time, be fixed somehow (this includes non-decaying attachments).


Regards

-Marco Behrmann
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couldnt said it better myself Jeroen3219 :wise:
marce: pfff :laugh:
 
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I think that was a good reply from marco... :yup: And now that that is answered, may this topic RIP :wise:
 
I don't have a strong opinion about the axe stats being changed although I can see both sides of the arguement. What concerns me a little is this sentence of Marco's reply:

It is unforuntate the issue wasn't noticed sooner, but when discovered, it was recified and now the Axe has the stats it is supposed to have, being a low-level common item.

He's claiming they didn't notice it for over a year??? Come on... who's he trying to kid!
 
People please,

I meant this thread to be informative, not for discussion. I just posted my mail to Marco and his reply to inform you all.

Maybe I should have made this thread in some kind of diary tho...

Don't make me regret posting it, please...
 
Well, Mod Fap's, Imp Faps etc will soon be noticed to have bugs in them and the healing they do reduced. All those nice little items that in some way have a benefit to the community, but not to Mindark will be adjusted because they all contain bugs.

IMO, The Lone Ranger is right. It was 1 1/2 years ago. If a bug can't be noticed in that amount of time, and MA are supposed to play around with this game just as much as the community, then there is seriously something lacking in the ability of those gamers.

And yes, it seems a nice cut and paste reply is all anyone gets nowadays. :eek:

So, for anyone saying that Marco was right in the answers the MA have decided on, then just watch out for those nice little items that you hold dear, that have nice little features that get turned into bugs.

It's all to easy for MA to say something contains a bug. We have no way of seeing anything to do with the code. Forget the axe, and fix the missed shots, missed faps, lag, and all the other bugs that have appeared already.

And as for the Hoffing and GLobaling this VU, we all know it's to keep everyones mind of the fact that there are some serious bugs in this VU.
If there is ever a problem in your country, the government has some way of wriggling out of it, by discussing some other major catastrophe around the world.
It seems MA turned up the Hof'ing/Global'ing to do the same thing here. Everyone is waiting for that mysterious mini patch to come. :rolleyes:
 
And the reply I've send to Marco a little while ago.

And yes I know it won't change a thing. MindArk owns PE and makes all the decisions and controls everything. I just have this basic principal thingie ;)

reply to Marco said:
Dear Marco,


You're welcome for the feedback and my opinion on this matter. I do have the feeling that somehow our conversations got crossed. Maybe it's because English isn't my native tongue, so I am not as articulate in English as maybe is necessary, but maybe it's because you're side stepping my point.

I fully agree on the axe and on the bug fixing issue. No discussion there.

My point was that you've drastically changed the statistics of an item, a lot of people have paid real money for. How can people trust that if they invest in an expensive item in PE ( like a couple of hundred real dollars for an improved MK5 rifle or over a thousand real dollars for an improved FAP ) that the statistics won't be hugely changed in the future.

I know PE is not like a real economy, simply because you control the supply ( either by drops in loot or the resources needed to craft ) and you also control demand ( by the statistics of an item and its dynamics ingame ). But I do feel you also have a heavy responsibility as the supplier of a virtual world, with a real cash economy.

I kind of look at this, like a lease concept. I don't receive anything physical, nor can I take items with me elsewhere, but I lease them. I don't find it correct, or even honest, that items are degraded by this much, while I paid for basically another item.

Or should I just assume that what I buy in PE, can be changed tomorrow ? If so, that would change the way I should look at PE.

Either way, I don't mind, but let's be clear about it.


Regards,

Jeroen, a.k.a. The Lone Ranger
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nice post and questioning towards MA The Lone Ranger,and not so satisfied about Marco's copy&paste answer...

but like i posted somewhere earlier in this thread, i have dropped it this issue. let it be common item, won't shake my world anyhow...
 
I think the real problem here is that it doesn't seem like MA people are "plugged in" to the PE world.

I mean they say they play often, but they go oblivious to the some of the most widely known truths for months, or even years at times.

Example?

1) Attachments didn't decay. For months and months, perhaps years they did not decay. From beta to way past gold. Most thought it was just the way the game was designed,... until one day somebody posted about it in the original PE forums, and Marco was like "??? what? They don't decay??" ... duh? Is this proof that Marco doesn't hunt? Or that he's just not paying attention? I'm not sure. But either way it was a bad sign.

2) 2 hours after the first axe 1x0 dropped, soc chats and forums were alive with talk about how the imk2 was no longer the most efficient item in the game! It was scandalous! A huge story! Why didn't MA know about this and correct it immediately? Instead they wait for months to fix it, with each passing week doubling the negative effects of making a change. They waited and waited. People became used to the item, and in some ways dependant on it. People are quitting because of it. It didn't have to happen like that.

Once again, I plead with Marco and MA to be more active in the universe. Talk to new arrivals. Talk to vets. Hunt, mine, craft and discover the subtleties of the experience so:

1) You know what's REALLY going on.
2) You can discover issues quickly.
3) You get a better feel from the community about what features need work and what features don't need any changes. (i.e. if it's not broke, don't fix it)
4) Make more informed posts in the forums.
5) Do more quality control.
6) Improve your reputation with the users.

Your team is small. Your resources are limited. But actually participating in the world you have created is just something you cannot afford to take lightly!
 
truantduck said:
I think the real problem here is that it doesn't seem like MA people are "plugged in" to the PE world.

I mean they say they play often, but they go oblivious to the some of the most widely known truths for months, or even years at times.

Example?

1) Attachments didn't decay. For months and months, perhaps years they did not decay. From beta to way past gold. Most thought it was just the way the game was designed,... until one day somebody posted about it in the original PE forums, and Marco was like "??? what? They don't decay??" ... duh? Is this proof that Marco doesn't hunt? Or that he's just not paying attention? I'm not sure. But either way it was a bad sign.

2) 2 hours after the first axe 1x0 dropped, soc chats and forums were alive with talk about how the imk2 was no longer the most efficient item in the game! It was scandalous! A huge story! Why didn't MA know about this and correct it immediately? Instead they wait for months to fix it, with each passing week doubling the negative effects of making a change. They waited and waited. People became used to the item, and in some ways dependant on it. People are quitting because of it. It didn't have to happen like that.

Once again, I plead with Marco and MA to be more active in the universe. Talk to new arrivals. Talk to vets. Hunt, mine, craft and discover the subtleties of the experience so:

1) You know what's REALLY going on.
2) You can discover issues quickly.
3) You get a better feel from the community about what features need work and what features don't need any changes. (i.e. if it's not broke, don't fix it)
4) Make more informed posts in the forums.
5) Do more quality control.
6) Improve your reputation with the users.

Your team is small. Your resources are limited. But actually participating in the world you have created is just something you cannot afford to take lightly!
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I agree 100000%. Also, very well written in a nice constructive tone.

DD
:evilking:
 
Hey all.

Appreciate this may open up a can of nasty worms again, but in Marco's reply to the Lone Ranger, what do you think he meant by the following :-

"This means that the users of the axe has had an intended advantage from the time they began using the axe up till the fix"

???
 
MrHyms said:
Hey all.

Appreciate this may open up a can of nasty worms again, but in Marco's reply to the Lone Ranger, what do you think he meant by the following :-

"This means that the users of the axe has had an intended advantage from the time they began using the axe up till the fix"

???
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hehe- I noticed that too--- but wouldn't make it into anything big... I'm most certain it's just poor grammar and the wrong english word choice (and there were several such mistakes throughout the text that would further lead me to think this). I suspect he meant to use "unintended" as the follow up sentence says they were "unknowingly" utilizing it. :)
This means that the users of the axe has had an intended advantage from the time they began using the axe up till the fix. Those using the Axe had (unknowingly) used a bugged item, and therefore (of course) no repercussions will fall on any of them.
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so that we're clear..

if you have low whip skills, you get high dmg with a whip most of the time. so that means, good average dmg/pec. easy to break even with a whip. the reason not many ppl actually do this is because its fucking tedious!#$ sooooo boring to use a whip. your miss rate is insane until at least 200 whip skill. its VERY easy to miss with a whip. kind of frustrating.

when you get higher skill with a whip, you do less damage, which would allow you to tame an animal. you cant tame something if you hurt it too much. that would result in serious injury or death to the creature in question.

the purpose of a whip is not for combat, but for taming. combat requires lots of dmg, taming doesnt. but since an axe is for combat and a whip isnt, not a very good comparison.. but the thing about the 1x0's new economy was a valid point cuz theres not a single person on this forums that believes MA didnt see that axes do 29 dmg.

and pornstar didnt know who jenna jameson was, either.

come to think of it, whos this starman guy i hear about so much? :laugh:

in any case, 4.28 dmg/pec is still nice. we should be grateful, and i am, on behalf of any future disciples i might pick up.
 
Crys said:
when you get higher skill with a whip, you do less damage
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wrong.

Crys said:
which would allow you to tame an animal.
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wrong.

Crys said:
you cant tame something if you hurt it too much.
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wrong.

Crys said:
the purpose of a whip is not for combat, but for taming.
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wrong.

Crys said:
theres not a single person on this forums that believes MA didnt see that axes do 29 dmg.
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wrong.

Crys said:
in any case, 4.28 dmg/pec is still nice. we should be grateful, and i am, on behalf of any future disciples i might pick up.
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correct!
 
Numa said:
Well, Mod Fap's, Imp Faps etc will soon be noticed to have bugs in them and the healing they do reduced. All those nice little items that in some way have a benefit to the community, but not to Mindark will be adjusted because they all contain bugs.
Click to expand...

:scratch: Hmm! I am a member of the community and those items do not help me one bit.

Don't you mean they are of enormous benefit to a very small number of individuals who were fortunate enough to receive them early on and held on to them?

Still if it was deemed that those items were to be identified as bugged and therefore adjusted / removed I would hope existing owners would get a fair price for them.

The issue of compensation does not apply to the axes, because their market value has not declined.
 
Machman said:
:scratch: Hmm! I am a member of the community and those items do not help me one bit.

Don't you mean they are of enormous benefit to a very small number of individuals who were fortunate enough to receive them early on and held on to them?

Still if it was deemed that those items were to be identified as bugged and therefore adjusted / removed I would hope existing owners would get a fair price for them.

The issue of compensation does not apply to the axes, because their market value has not declined.
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They would get tt...nothing more. MA would refuse to compensate for market value just as they would now.

Az
 
It isn't going to happen so it is a silly discussion. Now if the axes were called Modified Electrical Axe 1x0 then we might have some cause for concern.

DD
:evilking:
 
Ok, thanks a lot guys for your attention and for your posting here.

Also I wanna thank Marco for posting here an official statement on that matter, which I see as answering the intention of the thread. I also want to assure you Marco that continuously better communication with the community would enrich the quality of the game.

Therefore, MindBuster, please lock this thread, further discussion on this matter is no more necessary and other issues are due to their own threads.

Best regards,

K
 
Mail exchange with Marco

Alas, I guess it takes more time to write a new mail to copy / paste from than 2 days.

I am not expecting any answer anymore on my last mail. That kind of says it all...

And yes Skam, I do find it no more than normal to reply to e-mails, even if your name is Marco Behrmann. Of course he gets a lot of mails each day, but he shouldn't have become director of communications and post his e-mail if he didn't want people to send him mail, would he ?

;) No hard feelings, but expectations have been set and altered...

This is the end of this for me...
 
Marco|MindArk said:
...
We want PE to be stable and filled with lots and lots of happy participants. Every decision we make is based on that notion. Every one. It must be, else we would be digging our own grave. It is basic business, to have happy customers. And I believe you all enjoy PE a lot better with less bugs than with more. We have a whole team designated to only seek up and squash any known bugs. The weekend isn't for the team - they work on. An update is coming as soon as it is deemed ready. There is no ETA atm.

If you think you have discovered a bug, you must file a support case as it is support that manages what is to be done, based on your feedback.
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I don't think so. It is common that a player finds a bug and uses it for it's own advantage since this is not "Capture the Flag" or "Last man standing".

To me this sounds more like MA is telling BS. If you want happy people, don't make a few less people (that probably deposit a shitload of real cash) get the ueber ATH and super HoFs. Split this to the peasants too. We all know (at least we think alike) YOU control what people get. Who's on turn to get a nice Global and/or HoF.

You talk about economics, a virtual universe. This reminds me on some movies I've seen with some nice dictator that promises the holy land and enslave it's peasants. MA is alike. You promise the fair chance of "loot" (which results in real cash) but you don't let the players take action really.

In my very own opinion you betray the people that play this game for fun and "only" deposit small amounts to stay alive in PE. You support the folks that deposit a lot and try to keep them happy because of their amounts they deposit and you know you can keep them ingame that way.

You think you have happy people ingame if some guy blows 300k ammo and get's back 50PED and sees that some "well known" guy hit's 3 globals within 1 hour? Or some people (usually always the same) hit 12 globals in a row and even HoF's in a row for crafting mini-skirts or some shoes? At some days it's a list of only three different Avatars in the HoF list. This is fair?

Oh please.

After such a post I think you put me on the blacklist and I will probably not make a PEC profit anymore from looting. Maybe I deserve it after such a post maybe the bigger amount of the people deserve a fair split of the loots too?

At least we all deserve fairness, but what to expect from a casino?
 
Kerham said:
Ok, thanks a lot guys for your attention and for your posting here.

Also I wanna thank Marco for posting here an official statement on that matter, which I see as answering the intention of the thread. I also want to assure you Marco that continuously better communication with the community would enrich the quality of the game.

Therefore, MindBuster, please lock this thread, further discussion on this matter is no more necessary and other issues are due to their own threads.

Best regards,

K
Click to expand...

Wrong. It will ensure the minority of the people playing will be heard. Do you think 50% of the people playing active in PE care about this forum or at least are registered and read?

Do you really think if 200 people say: Oh please don't let hit Dominants that hard anymore they would change anything?

Also the bug discussion is not about bugs, it's about less profit to MA and a small advantage to the player which is NOT wanted by MA because if to many people know, this means: they would have to change something else to suck some PED out of the players.

So see the facts.
 
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