the Calypso Land Deeds only payout, not any incomes.

[billairboy]

They are (too short)

No they are not, Konve is right about this. But at the same time the statement that MA earns money from decay is also right in my opinion, even if it's not the directly correct in a financial RL term

 

[Ironheart]

Apologies Konve, your statement was correct.
Their liability is NOT on the Income Statement

It does appear on the accounts though.

From the 2012 Accounts:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/1/7/3/6/liability.jpg

The point for me is that MA must always be able to fulfil the promise to pay out your TT value, a single failure on this would likely close down the whole game.

If Krom wants his $33k, for example, then they must have funds to pay it (within the long timescale they give themselves). That doesn't mean they have to keep all of our TT in the bank just sitting there, but they must have the facility to recover and pay back the whole of the contingent liability, within a reasonble timescale (but I'm not sure we can legally force them to do so)

So for me, it is very clear that the intention of their setup is that they will only make money from deacy (talking day to day, not including one off sales of CLDs etc.), whether they actually honour this in operation we may never know (until it's too late ), but it seems fruitless, to me, to engage with MA from any other perspective, unless and until we have some concrete evidence for doing so. Maybe if I had huge sums invested, I would think differently.

Also done with this topic. GL all.

 

[Sissi]

Aren't they only obligated to pay back that was deposited in the last month prior to your withdrawal? Seem to remember such a passage in TOU/EULA.

 

[Konve]

The point for me is that MA must always be able to fulfil the promise to pay out your TT value, a single failure on this would likely close down the whole game.

They can't and probably never will be able to do that.

The 2012 report states that the in-game assets (ie total TT value of everything + PED cards) amounts to 66.9 million at the end of the year.

At the end of the year the Mindark group had 2.2 million SEK in outgoing cash and bank balance. ie 3.3 % of the total amount of PED in game.

In fact the entire Mindark group was worth, in total, 41.7 million SEK. And that's including intangible assets such as Calypso itself (1.1 million) and the Entropia Universe Platform (8.9 million). ie Mindark and subsidiaries was worth less (62 %) than the "assets" within the virtual world itself.


I'm not saying this is right or wrong, if it should be like this. I'm just saying it is.

 

[thoreau]

Not exactly.

1) MA/devs all make their money from one thing - deposits.

Based on this how does MA split money with the PP?

Imagine a new player creates a new avatar on Planet Calypso. The player gets a free ride to Arkadia. While on Arkadia they deposit $100 U.S. after fees. The player stays on Arkadia but does nothing but chat. They do not hunt, mine, or craft. They buy nothing. They do nothing. The PEDs just sit on their card.

How would MA split up that $100 with Calypso and Arkadia?

 

[aridash]

Knove, please explain partner planet revenues. how do they have any revenue under your real-world-only perspective of revenue comes from deposits?

i dont argue for a second that deposits is how money enters the economy, but planets have no direct deposits and the planets have to require an internal mechanism for accounting revenue. can we not once and for all accept that such a mechanism exists?

 

[sostoned]

imo: theoretically the deposits and withdraws are no income but cash flow

the income is generated in decay.

for example:

Player pays 1000 dollars, decays 500 and withdraws 500.

no vat included and seen from mindarks account

Bank 1000
a assets 1000

assets 500
a revenue 500

assets 500
a bank 500



could be they use:

bank 1000
a revenue 1000

revenue 500
a bank 500


2nd option is a shortcut and making things unclear.

1st option is how it should work

 

[Konve]

Do I look like a PP? I don't know that. But if I had to guess...

Based on this how does MA split money with the PP?

Imagine a new player creates a new avatar on Planet Calypso. The player gets a free ride to Arkadia. While on Arkadia they deposit $100 U.S. after fees. The player stays on Arkadia but does nothing but chat. They do not hunt, mine, or craft. They buy nothing. They do nothing. The PEDs just sit on their card.

How would MA split up that $100 with Calypso and Arkadia?

I would guess it splits it just like it would if "decay" someone paid for it. I don't see how money deposited could not be split in the same manner as "decayed" PED could.

I don't have a list of the propotions. But wasn't it 10/90 for the moon? I don't recall. But it was a worse deal than the real PPs get at any rate. So if a Caly born avatar moves to the moon, the moon owner only gets a 10 % cut of that avatar's activities.

Knove, please explain partner planet revenues. how do they have any revenue under your real-world-only perspective of revenue comes from deposits?

i dont argue for a second that deposits is how money enters the economy, but planets have no direct deposits and the planets have to require an internal mechanism for accounting revenue. can we not once and for all accept that such a mechanism exists?

Why not make it simple? Avatar deposits while on your planet = you earn a cut.

It's quite possible they measure your activity for a while to see if you're actually spending your money where you put it in. But who knows?

 

[Vlooe]

Based on this how does MA split money with the PP?

Imagine a new player creates a new avatar on Planet Calypso. The player gets a free ride to Arkadia. While on Arkadia they deposit $100 U.S. after fees. The player stays on Arkadia but does nothing but chat. They do not hunt, mine, or craft. They buy nothing. They do nothing. The PEDs just sit on their card.

How would MA split up that $100 with Calypso and Arkadia?

Ma will get $100.
Calypso and Arkadia will get nothing as long these PEDs are not used for hunting/crafting/mining

Do not know if PP get revenue share from auc and all the other fees

 

[aridash]

Why not make it simple? Avatar deposits while on your planet = you earn a cut.

It's quite possible they measure your activity for a while to see if you're actually spending your money where you put it in. But who knows?

and how might they measure your activity... hmmm?

as we know that revenues are split between MA, the "parent" planet and the "activity" planet (% can be argued about), the system must support a fair transfer of revenues to the correct planet. the simplest is to derive revenues from an ingame mechanism, otherwise we end up with people depositing on a favoured planet and moving elsewhere for activity, or withdrawing while on a planet, leaving that planet unfairly penalised.

 

[billairboy]

and how might they measure your activity... hmmm?

as we know that revenues are split between MA, the "parent" planet and the "activity" planet (% can be argued about), the system must support a fair transfer of revenues to the correct planet. the simplest is to derive revenues from an ingame mechanism, otherwise we end up with people depositing on a favoured planet and moving elsewhere for activity, or withdrawing while on a planet, leaving that planet unfairly penalised.

The planet partners revenue are probably based on decay and fees. For each 1 ped of decay/fee the planet partner gets 0.1 USD in revenue sharing from MA. The revenue for MA is the deposits - withdrawal formula reduced the revenue sharing with the planet partners.

 

[liux156]

True. Deposits minus Withdrawals = net income for MA.

However the old saga that began when Marco claimed that MA made their money from decay is to be taken with a ton of salt on top. The reason is the relation you stated; less money can be withdrawn.

No "portion" of decay goes into MA's pockets, whatever they might have claimed. It's simply impossible. They made their income from the deposit in the first place, they can't create more income by taking another cut from the same deposit.

In MA's financial reports they state the ingame amount of PED as an *something* (forgot the name) liability that doesn't count into the balance sheet, because of their unclear state (will they be withdrawn or not? MA can't tell so they don't put it up as a normal liability).

Auction fees is essentially decay.


Anyway. My point was that if player A has no CLDs and 100 PED, and player B has one CLD and 100 PED. The next week they have 100 and 105 PED respectively. Is player B likely to withdraw those extra 5 PED? No, he's going to spend it inside the game. So even if MA "gave" him a "cut" from their income, they really didn't. They only gave him a few virtual digits that he might convert to real money some day. It's only when he withdraws as they have to live up to their promise and give him his cut. Which will not happen because a week later they both have 0 PED left.

yes, you are right, player B will be spend it inside the game, but a invertor wont spend it. most of CLD are control by invertor.