The contribution of Melee hunters?

[THANATOS]

I am still quite new to the world of entropia, and have been reading this forum for about a month. One thing that seems consistent is that everyone agrees (ok, MOSTLY agrees!) that MA make there money from decay, and everything else theoretically goes into the alledged "loot pool"...

This got me thinking, and please don't shout at me - this is only a theory!

If the above is true, is it not also true to say that melee hunters contribute nothing to the loot pool, as they pay out in decay only, and have zero ammo costs.

Does this also mean that if we convinced all melee hunters to switch to BMP or Laser weapons, the loot would actually increase for everyone?

Like i say i am only wondering, so please dont have a go at me if you are a melee hunter!

 

[Silver]

Melee hunters, like everyone else incurring decay pay for MA's costs. Without those costs being paid there would be no PE and no loot.

You may notice from other posts that I no longer believe in a "loot pool" as such. Certainly not in the sense that there is some pile of loot somewhere waiting to be tapped. I believe that loot is allocated according to algorithms with limits on individual and average payouts designed to limit MA's exposure (i.e. the amount of PEDs that could potentially be withdrawn.)

So in this way it doesn't matter whether you are a melee hunter or not, there is still the same amount of money left over (once MA costs & profit have been covered) and that money is left in the economy.

To me it does not matter that MA get their income from decay, they could get it in all sorts of ways but the result would be the same X% of the money we put in goes to MA the rest is in the economy.

 

[Sitethief]

Have you ever noticed how fast most of the melee weapons decay when compared to rifles and pistols?

 

[mrproper]

Perhaps many forget that a rifle decays from 0.02 pec to 6 pec per shot and melee decays from 4 pecs up to an average of 44 pecs per slash.

 

[THANATOS]

Sure, I understand that melee weapons decay much, much faster, but what I am saying is that they don't contribute to the loot. As far as we know MA profits come from decay only, meaning they earn far more from melee hunters than gun and rifle hunters.

Do you not think it would then change things if melee hunters swapped to guns - MA would not shut down, they would simply make less money as there is still decay, just not as much, meanwhile, the loot pool (as such) would go up as more ammo was being purchased, despite there not being any additional hunters.

So the question remains, other than lining the MA board members pockets, what do melee hunters contribute to the loot pool? As far as i can tell, we would all be better off if melee hunters switched...

Obviously, I am not saying they should, as it is an individuals choice how they enjoy hunting, I am just saying as far as i can understand, if they did we would all have more money with the exception of MA....

 

[mrproper]

I already posted this today, why do you keep at it?

Multi-question case:

Case ??312 History

2006-01-06 Andrei Andone:

? ?

? ?

There is a myth that all decay repairs do not go back into the economy but are direct MA income. I doubt this is true since melee weapons do not use ammo and repairing them allows the player to obtain loot. Can you please state that not ALL repair costs are used for the system maintenance?


thank you,

mrproper

2006-01-07 MindArk Support:

Hello.

? ?

3: MA Makes money from repairs, this is all we can say.

Personal rant:

All player PED input into the system is taxed, or better said, output is taxed. All input (ammo, decay repairs, auction fees, estate fees, TT feeding, crafting resources) goes into the "magical loot pool", and comes out at a smaller percent as loot, minerals, crafted items. The missing percent is kept for the system maintenance.

Think of it as a LA tax. You hunt, get loot, or mine and get minerals and you do not see the tax, but the owner does.

Also, considering market prices and the general skill of the players, alot of resources are wasted by selling to the TT, missing shots, armor decay, weapon decay, missing hits, overkill, loosing half beaten mobs, dying while killing mobs, fapping, mob health restoring and others.

IF the "missing due to bad skills and gameplay" / "MA tax on input" is higher than 1, YOU can actually play almost perfect and obtain more resources out of the system as others do. Being said so, please comment on any addition to this document, I understand some economical workings, I am a programmer and this is more than logic to me.

You might also consider that skill value is small from the system tt value, wich means that the prices that are out there actually stand as a mid-point between what the system values skills and what they might cost you to get them. Some skills need about 800-1000 PED to reach the same ammount as found on a skill chip.

 

[THANATOS]

I already posted this today, why do you keep at it?

Why do I keep at it? Because I am curious to know if my theory is correct by asking the opinion of others..... isnt that what the forum is for?

I didn't see your thread when creating this one, if you don't like me "keeping at it" then simply dont read this thread. I am sure there are plenty of others prepared to read my thoughts and comment constructively.

 

[Recoda]

There have already been a thread regarding this, and Marco clearly stated that the lootpool wouldn't dry out and give us close to 0 Pec in return if everyone used melee weapons. That means that Mindark don't take 100% of the decay money, it's even possible that they only take 5 - 10% of the melee weapons decay while they take close to 100% from the ranged weapons decay.

The loot-system wouldn't be affected at all if everyone switched over to ranged weapons if that was the case.

 

[THANATOS]

There have already been a thread regarding this, and Marco clearly stated that the lootpool wouldn't dry out and give us close to 0 Pec in return if everyone used melee weapons. That means that Mindark don't take 100% of the decay money, it's even possible that they only take 5 - 10% of the melee weapons decay while they take close to 100% from the ranged weapons decay.

The loot-system wouldn't be affected at all if everyone switched over to ranged weapons if that was the case.

Thanks Recoda, that was helpfull (+rep). I can't seem to find the thread though, any chance you could post a link to it.

 

[Konve]

I have never seen anything where MA stated what they refer to as "decay", only that they take their money from the decay.

So it's possible ammo-burn is considered decay, as well as the decay on the item in use. When you decay an item money disappears into nothing. Same thing with ammo, you don't get anything in return until you loot a mob - so the ammo isn't being converted into money as when you buy something from the trade terminal or refine stackables(though the tools which you use will decay a couple of PECs).

Point is everyone might be doing as much as or more decay as the melee users. Melee weapons tend to have a rather high dmg/pec and less total dmg then rifles and pistols so the ranged users might, or might not, be contributing with more decay to MA

 

[Recoda]

I have never seen anything where MA stated what they refer to as "decay", only that they take their money from the decay.

So it's possible ammo-burn is considered decay, as well as the decay on the item in use. When you decay an item money disappears into nothing. Same thing with ammo, you don't get anything in return until you loot a mob - so the ammo isn't being converted into money as when you buy something from the trade terminal or refine stackables(though the tools which you use will decay a couple of PECs).

Point is everyone might be doing as much as or more decay as the melee users. Melee weapons tend to have a rather high dmg/pec and less total dmg then rifles and pistols so the ranged users might, or might not, be contributing with more decay to MA

No, MindArks revenue stream is from decay. So it is not an urban legend. All other areas (auction fee, ammo, etc) is cycled back into the economy.

There you have it.
I used to think that they also considered ammo as a type of decay, but it seems like they don't. Anyway, the quote's bellow shows you that they don't take all of the decay money out of the system, so it could be like I said before... that they take less % of the decay generated by melee weapons.

Marco, is that true then

if all players will hunt with melee weapons loots will be close (counting a few peds from auction fee and mysterious etc.) to 0 ?

No.

Alright, I can understand why you weren't able to find the thread, it wasn't originally about how Mindark earned money, or anything like that. Anyway, here's the link:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7325

 

[THANATOS]

Many thanks Recoda!

 

[Silver]

So the question remains, other than lining the MA board members pockets, what do melee hunters contribute to the loot pool? As far as i can tell, we would all be better off if melee hunters switched...

Obviously, I am not saying they should, as it is an individuals choice how they enjoy hunting, I am just saying as far as i can understand, if they did we would all have more money with the exception of MA....

As I said before all ppl that are incurring decay are providing income to MA and hence paying for the costs of the service. So melee hunters, gun hunters, miners, crafters and tailors are all in some way paying for the service. The basic fact is that the MA costs need to be covered and a profit made for them, the remainder is in the economy.

If there was a net move away from the items that decay most to those that decay the least, MA would just adjust the algorithms and we would be back where we started. No you wouldn't be any better off and no the loot wouldn't change.

 

[Xandra]

Hi,

As I said before all ppl that are incurring decay are providing income to MA and hence paying for the costs of the service. So melee hunters, gun hunters, miners, crafters and tailors are all in some way paying for the service. The basic fact is that the MA costs need to be covered and a profit made for them, the remainder is in the economy.

If there was a net move away from the items that decay most to those that decay the least, MA would just adjust the algorithms and we would be back where we started. No you wouldn't be any better off and no the loot wouldn't change.

This is exactly how I see it - it should be clear to everyone with some business background ... MA needs some fixed income (profit included), the remainder can be given back as loot.

How much MA gives back depends on a lot of factors, and the distribution of it between "normal loot" and globals/ HoF's, too. We can be shure they have some instrument to adjust those variables ... They need them to keep the current players depositing, to draw testing newbies into depositing and to attract new newbies. And, maybe, sometimes, they may need some more profit to beautify the quarterly statements?

It's obvious Marco's 2 qouted statements are self-contradictory and thus can be labelled "marketing jabbering" - I assume they are copy/ pasted from some powerpoint presentation ;-))

Have fun!

PS: Silver, +Rep!

 

[KapokWu]

It's obvious Marco's 2 qouted statements are self-contradictory and thus can be labelled "marketing jabbering" - I assume they are copy/ pasted from some powerpoint presentation ;-))

I am a lootpoolist and don't see contradictions in those two
Marco's statements:

1. 100% of ammo goes to lootpool.
2. possibly some of the decay of equippement goes to the lootpool
3. a part of the melee repair costs is considered "ammo" , the rest is for MA.
   The ratio is something "gunlike" but unknown.
4. bombs, auction fees etc.? I don't know or I don't care. Bombs are likely ammo though.
5. At the moment I get back more than I give into the lootpool so I live
   out of other people's money, so I have to help newbies.

 

[MG Mighty]

There have already been a thread regarding this, and Marco clearly stated that the lootpool wouldn't dry out and give us close to 0 Pec in return if everyone used melee weapons. That means that Mindark don't take 100% of the decay money, it's even possible that they only take 5 - 10% of the melee weapons decay while they take close to 100% from the ranged weapons decay.

The loot-system wouldn't be affected at all if everyone switched over to ranged weapons if that was the case.

I think it was simple to understand why this is true.

Player A goes to hunt with melee weapon that looses value of 100 PEDs
Player B goes to hunt with range weapon that looses value of 10 PEDs and the ammo lost value of 90 PEDs (since it decays 100%)

In both of them the total decay was 100 PEDs.
MA will take a comission of this total decay to pay for the costs of the game.

Simple isn't it.

 

[Airedale]

Simple answer

I don't know and MA isn't saying.

I also don't care. My rifle does the most damage per second at range and my sword does the most damage per second up close. I'm going to continue to use them that way.

How MA distributes their income isn't an issue in which weapon I use. They can also change the way the manage their money any time they want to.

So shoot, hack, crush or cut as you see fit! MA will make sure their game is profitable for them no matter which combat method you use.

 

[night]

PED disappears at the repair terminal, but in the meantime, huge amounts of real cash are in the game, no interest is paid out over that, and most of it is never recovered. We may stop playing PE but keep our avatar just like we kept our old toys, never really getting to sell it all. An inactive avi is like a gift to MA.

The repair terminal is simply there to keep a drain on the system so that there is PED disappearing from the system. It does not produce money on the other side of the wall.