The effect of the removal of attributes rewards

[wizz]

This morning I read something that really made me feel sick and I really can't understand.

It's about the nerfing of the mission rewards. MA has the plan to replace the attribute rewards to *crap*.

You can find the original article here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?226759-Mission-Rewards-Rebalancing

To me the introduction of the iron missions with the attribute rewards were the greatest incentive I ever had to pick up my playing (grinding) speed. At least now I had a goal grind thousands and thousands of mobs. I wanted to get my attributes up. The only real thing in this game which cannot be bought but only accomplished by many hours of playing. The missions rewards where just the bonus I needed.

But this is now on the verge of collapse as MA decided to change it after many people already received this rewards, and the ones who didn't have the peds or time to do them the last year are f#cked.

Although I hate very much to be negative I see absolutely no good reason to do this. Only bad reasons and the foremost that it will greatly damage the economy by taking away (another) incentive to spend money.
Apart from the lack of incentive, missions will be rewarded with more skill which would lower the skill value even more (whereas attributes have no negative impact on the economy).

well done guys. Very smart move. Dumba$$es!!! Why destroy good things which have been proven to work in a positive way?


Hence I make this poll to see how the community feels about this. Please note, this poll is only for hunters, so if you're a miner or crafter and never hunt, please don't vote because it doesnt make sense. Don't take loot results into account for this poll. Just the fact about attribute rewards.

 

[Naomi]

damn missions...

Hey

I think we can only wait to know what will really happen. There are several possibilities:

- I think the 'stamina' rewards will stay. At least they should, because 1) it is the only way to gain stamina and 2) it is the best way to see how many missions one has done

- Many of the '5k mission'-part of the chains, have only fragments as reward, which is;.. kind'a not fun. Now we may get decent skills for this? I like the idea.

- Less agility/strength/psyche gains? aaw,.. I like those a lot!

- Higher tt values of skills for more difficult mobs? Sounds logical to me: Higher costs spent on a mission chain equals more skills...

Of course there is also the possibility that they all will be diminished, but I strongly doubt that.
It seems MA wants all of us now, to be incented to do some work on Calypso, use as much of our time to finish missions, hunt bots etc... and not all at once go explore Cyrene? Good call. An exodus to a new planet would suck. And..didn't they publish Cyrene wants a 'soft-launch'? I would hardly consider half of EU moving to Cyrene a 'soft-launch'.


feel free to discuss
Naomi


P.S. In the poll there should be more options imo. MA did not state that attribute rewards will be completely abolished.

 

[wizz]

Thanks for your positive looks on things Naomi. Appriciate that and i really need it after reading this news.

But be honest, skill rewards are quite useless. Because the amount of ped spend on a iron missions is way more then the reward in skill value. So you might as well just buy the skills instead of doing the mission. Same effect, less time.

Imo attributes are the only "real" reward. Just 2 ways to get them, either by grinding and as a reward (and so, incentive) to do endless grinding missions.

No sensible reward means no incentive.


What I do wonder though is once the poll has filled, of the no voters, how many have packed them selves with attribute rewards already?

Easy to vote no after you already claimed the rewards.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Why are attributes so much better than skills as rewards? Just because of the status symbol thing? (EDIT: Not trying to sound rude here, I just want to know why people thing attributes are worth more).



Oh and do I vote yes or no if the only missions I have bothered to actively do so far are those that are very easy (no matter the reward, just to do something different now and then) and those that give mindforce (psyche or skill) rewards?

 

[Vaako]

I think the attribute-rewards were a big misstake from the start, it is indeed very unbalanced that people get one skillpoint regardless of their current skills, since a skillpoint in the 100 bracket is worth almost infinitly more than one in the noob bracket.

That being said removing the possible skillgains now will make the gap between old time ubers and newcommers even bigger. But we do have 4 months to complete the missions we concider important. (Lucky for us who already play EU, not so much for the guys that joins after aug 21st).

Also the stamina should be possible to gain by activity, the way it is now is kinda silly.

 

[sitram]

Hey

I think we can only wait to know what will really happen. There are several possibilities:

- I think the 'stamina' rewards will stay. At least they should, because 1) it is the only way to gain stamina and 2) it is the best way to see how many missions one has done

- Many of the '5k mission'-part of the chains, have only fragments as reward, which is;.. kind'a not fun. Now we may get decent skills for this? I like the idea.

- Less agility/strength/psyche gains? aaw,.. I like those a lot!

- Higher tt values of skills for more difficult mobs? Sounds logical to me: Higher costs spent on a mission chain equals more skills...

Of course there is also the possibility that they all will be diminished, but I strongly doubt that.
It seems MA wants all of us now, to be incented to do some work on Calypso, use as much of our time to finish missions, hunt bots etc... and not all at once go explore Cyrene? Good call. An exodus to a new planet would suck. And..didn't they publish Cyrene wants a 'soft-launch'? I would hardly consider half of EU moving to Cyrene a 'soft-launch'.


feel free to discuss
Naomi


P.S. In the poll there should be more options imo. MA did not state that attribute rewards will be completely abolished.

Finally a logic analysis of this announcement based on the info already supplied by MA representatives rather then just a rampage of posts in the "OMFG.... Sky is falling!!!" trend.

Cheers Naomi

 

[Danton]

At the moment nobody knows what exactly the changes will be. Telling that MA is changing it "to crap" can not be confirmed. So you can *guess* it will turn out this way because of experiences of the past, but it is way to early for such a thread.

Until we know exactly what will happen:

"Don't count your chickens before they are hatched."

 

[Fifth]

Have read the press release and it says "These new guidelines require that the current skill and attribute rewards must be adjusted for all missions on all planets."

"Adjusted", not "removed".

It's possible "rewards provided by missions on the different planets within Entropia Universe are in balance with one another" could result in some attribute rewards removed, or the requirements for the mission changed.
Some Rock and Ark missions (with equal rewards) are indeed a little easier compared to the (Calypso) Iron missions... but why worry about the changes in Iron missions? A wild guess or you know something we don't know?

 

[johan roadkill]

If they remove it from small missions like 100 then not as much problem but if they are removed from the bigger ones that would suck

 

[Wollongong]

(ooops....)

 

[Wollongong]

(...)

I agree. If anything, Calypso missions need to be MORE attractive.

On the other hand: it doesn't say it is nerfed. It says "changed"..could be an improvement *fingers crossed*

 

[ruslan]

Yes, and I think it's a good thing.
Cause big players won't be messing up the MarkUp that low-level players are competing for.

So, I generally think it's a really good move.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I agree. If anything, Calypso missions need to be MORE attractive.

On the other hand: it doesn't say it is nerfed. It says "changed"..could be an improvement *fingers crossed*

From what I understood reaing the posts by Bjorn and Charlie some will be nerfed and some improved (as it doesnt make sense for 100 molisk and 5000 kreltin to have same reward value I think one of them said as an example)... So better balancing where harder missions actually get better rewards I guess

This should ofc have been done from the start but...

 

[Fredy Olafson]

MA did flood market with skills as reward for iron missions, and now think was a bad move ? all i can say is " LOL ". it was a time when i thought nobody at MA is a gamer, just economists or bankers. seeing how markups fall down since VU 10 i am thinking they don't excel at economy.
how about taking a break from game new features and think hard about the core of the game which is RCE not fancy grahics and make the economy work . and skill gained by iron missions was a time bomb from start , as long as skills don't decay .
EDIT : i didn't vote on poll any option .

 

[remontoire]

Would I still do iron missions if there were no attribute rewards? Certainly not to the same extent as now.

If the Traeskeron missions are anything to go by, the skill rewards for the lower stages will not be very motivating. Hard to see many people continuing to do the 100/500/1K stages if the stages will give comparable rewards and not attribute points. Also, doing a 10K mission to get Agility, and not Stamina, gets old very fast - and I would prioritize to do missions with stamina rewards first.

For me it will be hard to find motivation to continue working on Feffoid and Atrox 5K missions until its know what happens to the 10K rewards and / or Bronze missions. Even if I would be almost guranteed to receive something better than novas for 5K, its the overall post-1K payoff I'm interested in.

 

[Infinity01]

Sorry, I couldnt' move.... it doesn't have the choices i wanted!

Good call. An exodus to a new planet would suck.

The timing, and they way they''ve structured new mission mobs, is indeed out of fear of mass exodus of players to Cyerene.

While it's fair game among competing PPs....a systematic favoritism of Caly by MA should be a concern!

Having said that, I do favor bringing in uniformity in mission rewards among the PPS missions chains... So it's a good move for the longer term.

Disclaimer: I'm not a grinder... i did only two 10k missions. Diakiba in 3 days during a diakiba fest at old swamp camp. Atrox 10k for the most part as team hunting!
Many of my missions got stuck at 500 and 5k level! The beauty of nova failed to entice me keep on grinding!

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

The timing, and they way they''ve structured new mission mobs, is indeed out of fear of mass exodus of players to Cyerene.

I very much doubt that. This is a MindArk decision affecting Calypso as well and there are problems with some missions on most (all?) planets giving far too high rewards for the mission difficulty.

Also, the "MA are favorizing Calypso"-conspiracy theory is just stupid. It would make no sense for them to do so and there is already plenty of evidence that this is not the case.

 

[xaph]

Mid player disadvantage

I seek your opinions and stand to be corrected!

I'm one mid player who like many I suspect meandered through this haze of attributes v.s skills and decided to not focus upon either but accumulate skill or attribute as they come.

I am aware in time some are focussed on attributes or skill mission alone and from what I can see doing very well on this approach.

In the middle I've maintained some balance achieving a more traditional stance. Not obsessionally focussing on Missions (very litte focus more skill gain natural) with less emphasis on missions attribute gain in play, remaining focussed upon skill accumulation.

What a fool I am to have my long term approach base upon traditional gains with very little obtained via the new system which is now to be nerfed. I did proceed with some skill approaches but doubt they will obtain the desired outcome!

It seems the system favoured those who spend big and make concerted efforts to jack the attribute scales!

Those using traditional method are again loosers.
Cheers
Xaph

 

[Dan59]

Last 3 introduced iron missions are already done in annunced balanced mode.
I did punyes and treaeskerons and im finishing rextelum so i got some idea what effect it give.

1. Attribute gain will become a lot more expensive. Just look traeskeron mission - to much expensive for just a single attribute.

2. Some missions noboy will finish except old addicted skillers (dont tell me that newcomers are already preaddicted before registering for account and are happy to do boring 16k punyes for minimal reward)

3. There is big risk that skill gain by playing will be totaly nerfed and we will be forced to do missions as only mode to gain skills.
Just remeber that today is impossible to up any atribute for medium and high lvl players just by playing and one is forced to do missions if he want go higher with his attributes.

4. Crash of devaluated skill market with hiperinflation of skills gained throught mission.

 

[crazy]

I know of a lot of people woh like to collect the 'easy' attribute mission, i myself like the attribute awards.

I see no incentive for me to do 10k foul or shinkiba if i all i get along the way is some stupid mission tokens and shitty little tt value of skills which will make absolutly no difference to my profesional standings.


i would rather have 1 point of agility/strength/intel/physce anyday over 0.5 ped tt of inflict ranged damage lol

Because that what we are talking here people. And attributes do more than just make you appear more skilled than you are, attributes count toward healths also. i.e. 1 HP every 40 levels.

But i havnt voted in your poll......no enough options

 

[remontoire]

I see no incentive for me to do 10k foul or shinkiba if i all i get along the way is some stupid mission tokens and shitty little tt value of skills which will make absolutly no difference to my profesional standings.

If the shinkiba and foul and merp and rippersnapper missions will be balanced like traeskeron, nobody will ever do these again.

 

[wizz]

If the shinkiba and foul and merp and rippersnapper missions will be balanced like traeskeron, nobody will ever do these again.

Indeed. I dare to say that 99,9% of the player base had as sole reason to do this missions was to get those extra attributes.

Grinding is ultimately boring, and especially on mobs that don't give globals like daiks and rippers (with some exceptions to this rule). At least if you get to "build" on your avatar, and I don't mean skills cuz they sell as common good on the auction, then it's maybe worth spending your time to kill 16600 daiks.

Ah well, before the iron missions there where no attributes rewards and we managed back then. Just to bad that the money and time rich persons are again the winners (NO, not talking about loot here).

The difference between uber and mid/low will only become bigger because the "ubers" have mostly finished all the iron missions and have already claimed their attribute rewards. looking at myself I was about to do them all, but it would just take 10 more years. Depending on how the rewards are nerfed, it might save me a lot of grinding time cuz I won't do them at all.

 

[sherwood]

I voted the second option, as hunter I prefer hunt for a tiny reward than hunt just to create decay, said this, I find this move: "rebalancing" in MA language, "nerf" in my language very unfair. None of old mission should change, it's unfair for whom finished it already and whom still have to finish them.
I don't care if some mission have to change on other planets but Calypsian ones shouldn't change... are unbalanced? ok your fault not our fault

 

[trance]

Hey

I would hardly consider half of EU moving to Cyrene a 'soft-launch'.


feel free to discuss
Naomi

half.. i more think 75% of all

 

[mastermesh]

The difference between uber and mid/low will only become bigger because the "ubers" have mostly finished all the iron missions and have already claimed their attribute rewards. looking at myself I was about to do them all, but it would just take 10 more years. Depending on how the rewards are nerfed, it might save me a lot of grinding time cuz I won't do them at all.

Just another great divide between the new and old order. Back in 2007 I think there was some major change that made new avatars have fewer stats than the older avatars started out with, and various nerfs since then have hit various things causing similar types of issues.

I do think it is a good idea to have the mission rewards balanced on the various planets, but it's not such a good idea to remove the rewards of skills. Instead, the balance should have been adding more rewards for missions of equal challenge to those that already had the rewards, etc.

It is interesting that a while back there was some official statement that they would not change the missions and leave them available for long periods of time... Not enough time to find the quote at the moment, but it's out there somewhere.

 

[Jimmy B]

10 years from now, all the new players will be whining about how easy it was to get attributes back in 2012

But, no, as long as the rebalancing of the missions is fair I'll keep doing them. Attributes are mainly just for show these days anyway.

 

[xaph]

10 years from now, all the new players will be whining about how easy it was to get attributes back in 2012

But, no, as long as the rebalancing of the missions is fair I'll keep doing them. Attributes are mainly just for show these days anyway.

Simplicity and I hope it is that

 

[burnsey]

Indeed. I dare to say that 99,9% of the player base had as sole reason to do this missions was to get those extra attributes.

Grinding is ultimately boring, and especially on mobs that don't give globals like daiks and rippers (with some exceptions to this rule). At least if you get to "build" on your avatar, and I don't mean skills cuz they sell as common good on the auction, then it's maybe worth spending your time to kill 16600 daiks.

Ah well, before the iron missions there where no attributes rewards and we managed back then. Just to bad that the money and time rich persons are again the winners (NO, not talking about loot here).

The difference between uber and mid/low will only become bigger because the "ubers" have mostly finished all the iron missions and have already claimed their attribute rewards. looking at myself I was about to do them all, but it would just take 10 more years. Depending on how the rewards are nerfed, it might save me a lot of grinding time cuz I won't do them at all.

What exactly was won? The easily gained attributes actually hindered avatars with low attributes because of the higher rate you can achieved them through normal activities. When they take the attributes earlier, it puts them into the harder to gain levels, skipping over the period where they could get them naturally.

 

[wizz]

What exactly was won? The easily gained attributes actually hindered avatars with low attributes because of the higher rate you can achieved them through normal activities. When they take the attributes earlier, it puts them into the harder to gain levels, skipping over the period where they could get them naturally.

I know what you're aiming at, but this is in no way a hinder. Simply because you don't have to accept the iron missions. You can hunt ANY mob you like without having to worry that you "accidentally" get the attribute reward. Just don't do the missions. Nobody was forced to take the attribute earlier until now. Now we quickly have to finish to get the rewards we like because they might not exist anymore after august.

 

[aridash]

But be honest, skill rewards are quite useless. Because the amount of ped spend on a iron missions is way more then the reward in skill value. So you might as well just buy the skills instead of doing the mission. Same effect, less time.

feel free to give me your useless skills then.

i really dont follow this line of thought, if gaining skills was so worthless how come people have spent years and thousands of ped doing just that?

"might as well have brought the skills" because you lose on the mission? but you can sell those skills, you cant sell the attibutes. attributes are great (if you've already stopped gaining them normally) i just dont get the obsession with them over skills.