The effect on COS of SIB & QR for textures.

[Dorsai]

I had always wondered what effect a BP's QR had on the chance of success before SIB, during SIB, and once the SIB had passed. (I am level 15 material manufacturer. At most level 15.1)

I had never actually looked, and compared, though. So I just did, and thought I would share with anyone who cares to know.

Using the above image (not my research) as the guide line as to COS, we get
that a 1QR BP (IE never used) that you no longer have SIB on has a COS fairly close to the MAX cos (taken at 42%).

Then we get that a BP about half way through the SIB level is also fairly high.

Even a BP right at the start of the SIB has a fair chance of success.

However, and not unexpectedly, try and use a BP before the COS starts, and the COS plummets, Massively.

Now the COS figures I show are not from experiance, but from looking at the COS bar, and comparing it to the one with the %'s on it, so they are probably + or - a few %.

It would seem to me that with texture crafting the deciding factor is Skill based, not QR based. Even a 1 QR BP is almost at max COS if you have passed the SIB.
It should be noted that once the SIB has passed the COS does not seem to rise any further with higher skills as I looked at level I, II, III, IV, and V BP's all at 1QR, and they all seemed to have the same COS.
Of course, if you have just started on the COS [edit]I meant SIB[/EDIT] for a BP, using a BP with a higher QR would help give better returns.

It would seem that the main reason to use a full QR texture BP would be when you are using the BP to skill on during,or after, the SIB.
It would also seem that if you are using the BP because you actually want the textures you are making the QR is not too important, but your pro-standing is. (IE skill past the SIB for the BP you intend to use using a lower level BP at higher QR before starting to make the texture you want.)

This leads to my next conclusion: If you want a texture but do not have a PRO-Standing high-enough to have SIB on the BP, you need to either skill up first, or get the texture made for you by someone who no longer has the sib, even if the person making the texture is using a 1QR BP, as they (using a 1QR BP) have a far better COS than you would using a 100QR BP but no SIB yet..

OC, I may be wrong, but the COS bar seems to say it all.

 

[AACB]

Hey Great Work! All of your information may not be perfect, but this does give a good incite on texture crafting! As a budding crafter myself, this info is priceless!

 

[Oleg]

Using the above image (not my research) as the guide line as to COS, we get
that a 1QR BP (IE never used) that you no longer have SIB on has a COS fairly close to the MAX cos (taken at 42%).

The original research that Etopia did on this is out of date. Now that we have SIB BPs which can reach a higher CoS than the old-school BPs, the numbers have been shifted up, so that a SIB BP with 100 QR and maxed on skill is now needed to give 42% CoS (and fills more of the bar than that shown in the picture above).

The principle remains the same, but the numbers are no longer correct.

It would seem to me that with texture crafting the deciding factor is Skill based, not QR based.

How can you say that when you have only compared BPs with 1 QR?

Especially when you go on to say:

This leads to my next conclusion: If you want a texture but do not have a PRO-Standing high-enough to have SIB on the BP, you need to either skill up first, or get the texture made for you by someone who no longer has the sib, even if the person making the texture is using a 1QR BP, as they (using a 1QR BP) have a far better COS than you would using a 100QR BP but no SIB yet..

If you haven't entered the SIB period, i.e. do not have the recommended level to use the BP, you will always have a poor chance of success.

If I remember rightly, using a 100 QR BP when you have just reached the recommended level gives you a slightly lower green bar (i.e. slightly worse CoS) than using a 1 QR BP at maxed skill. They work out quite similar.

This is good info that you've posted but you need to add more pictures using BPs of various QRs, including 100 QR, if you're going to draw proper conclusions.

 

[LeeLoo Faith]

Good info, thanks for sharing.
+rep will follow from home. does not work here.

 

[Dorsai]

How can you say that when you have only compared BPs with 1 QR?

Fair comment.

How about this:

100QR v's 1qr BP For textures.

The difference in COS is about 6%?

But for engineering.

Much more. 12-15%?

For the non-sib, the BP's QR makes more impact, because to max the BP fully you would need 100 Pro-standing levels & 100QR.
With a Texture BP, you only need 5 levels of pro-standing to get from something like 8-10%% cos (Before SIB) to something like 30%-35%. The QR only adds about 10% to the equation, while the skill adds 35% of the ability to max it.

I do not have a 100QR BP at level 6, 7 or 8, but if anyone does, I would be interested to see what the COS for me would be, and add it to the post. Then i could see what cos I would get on a pre-SIB BP at 100QR.
(Using A BP to get it to 100QR would skill me up, rendering the COS at the end not being a reflection of my COS at the start with 100QR!)


Admitidly the COS graph does not seem to apply 100% to texture BP's, but it still serves useful for comparison, even if the %'s generated are not quite accurate. (6 is half of 12. Even if the real figures are 10 and 20, the 50% difference is still true? )

 

[Oleg]

I do not have a 100QR BP at level 6, 7 or 8, but if anyone does, I would be interested to see what the COS for me would be, and add it to the post. Then i could see what cos I would get on a pre-SIB BP at 100QR.
(Using A BP to get it to 100QR would skill me up, rendering the COS at the end not being a reflection of my COS at the start with 100QR!)

I am only at Level 9 myself so I don't have anything like that. The only texture BP I have at 100% is Generic Leather, which would need someone with zero crafting skills to compare it at the beginning of the period.

I have a couple of components BPs at 100% but only old-school BPs so that's not so helpful here.

However there are always L BPs - I believe an L BP behaves like a 100 QR BP, doesn't it? So you could use Frescoquda or Grated Metal L BPs for comparison (both Level 6). You probably have some of these yourself, but if not then let me know, I think I have some I could lend you.

There are also Chomper, Gold and Phasm L BPs at Level 8 but I have a feeling these may be very rare (I'm not sure as I only click up to Level 3 prints atm so never get those high level BPs).

Admitidly the COS graph is out-of date, but it still serves useful for comparison, even if the %'s generated are not quite accurate. (6 is half of 12. Even if the real figures are 10 and 20, the 50% difference is still true? )

I'm not sure if you could compare quite that directly, as the 'curve' of the CoS may also have changed. It's certainly useful as a visual comparison though - it's easy to look at your pictures and see what makes a big difference and what makes a small difference.

The ideal thing would be for someone to do a full repeat of Etopia's tests, but I think that's a very large undertaking to do it properly.

 

[Dorsai]

However there are always L BPs - I believe an L BP behaves like a 100 QR BP, doesn't it? So you could use Frescoquda or Grated Metal L BPs for comparison (both Level 6). You probably have some of these yourself, but if not then let me know, I think I have some I could lend you.

There are also Chomper, Gold and Phasm L BPs at Level 8 but I have a feeling these may be very rare (I'm not sure as I only click up to Level 3 prints atm so never get those high level BPs).

Brilliant. Just brilliant. ^^

Yes, as far as I know, an (L) BP is exactly the same as a 100QR one, just like you say!

So all I need to to is see what I have.
I have lots of (L) BP's, as I have looted many with so few clicks that they are not worth selling even at a very high % markups, but are also not worth TTing at 1 pec (what's one pec?), so I just stick them in a book, and forget about them!
I am sure gold and Frescocuda are in a book somewhere with phasm, and others......

I will look, and post the COS....

TY Sir, for pointing out what I should have thought of!

 

[Kerham]

For the non-sib, the BP's QR makes more impact, because to max the BP fully you would need 100 Pro-standing levels & 100QR.

No. You actually max them at a certain skill level, irrelevant of the qr. The qr makes a difference in the.. how should I say, SIB period of non-SIB bp.

At ~lvl25 weapon engineer, jester d-1 and maddox 1 bp had both almost full CoS, while d-1 bp had ~85 qr and maddox 1 had ~3qr. At ~lvl 17, d-1 qr would had been visible in the difference of CoS and at ~lvl8-9 d-1 CoS would have been greenish while maddox orange.

I don't think the maximization happens at prostanding 100, is based on lvl, lvl1 bps get maxed earlier than lvl12 bps.

For non-sib blueprints, skills are a necessary and sufficient condition. Skills can replace qr, qr can only help skills.

For sib blueprints, once the maximizing lvl touched (required +5 or so), the extra skills are irrelevant once the qr is 100. Skills can replace qr (at uber skills), for rest qr can replace skills.

As for (L) clicks, once the maximizing skill lvl touched (required +5 or so), CoS is max.

Hope I was clear.

 

[Dorsai]

Ok. A level 6 (L) Bp, assumed to be the same as 100QR.

About half way thought the SIB, perhaps a 6% increase in COS from the 100% QR effect?

So, it seems 100QR roughly makes up for 2.5 pro-standing levels for a Texture BP, if you have the SIB? (very roughly, level six is from 12.5 to 17.5, and I am 15.little)

Level 7? would have been nice to have one but...Do not posses, and spent ages in the entopidia, and failed to find any level 7 texture (L) Bp's in existence..... NO doubt fault at my end, but the auction was equally fruitless.

level 8 (L) bp.

Looks to me like the cos is the same for a QR1 BP that is non-(L) for the same level.

 

[Dorsai]

No. You actually max them at a certain skill level, irrelevant of the qr. The qr makes a difference in the.. how should I say, SIB period of non-SIB bp.

At ~lvl25 weapon engineer, jester d-1 and maddox 1 bp had both almost full CoS, while d-1 bp had ~85 qr and maddox 1 had ~3qr. At ~lvl 17, d-1 qr would had been visible in the difference of CoS and at ~lvl8-9 d-1 CoS would have been greenish while maddox orange.

I don't think the maximization happens at prostanding 100, is based on lvl, lvl1 bps get maxed earlier than lvl12 bps.

For non-sib blueprints, skills are a necessary and sufficient condition. Skills can replace qr, qr can only help skills.

For sib blueprints, once the maximizing lvl touched (required +5 or so), the extra skills are irrelevant once the qr is 100. Skills can replace qr (at uber skills), for rest qr can replace skills.

As for (L) clicks, once the maximizing skill lvl touched (required +5 or so), CoS is max.

Hope I was clear.

I am sure you are right in what you say, but I have little, or perhaps no, experiance with BP's other than texture ones.

Thanks for the input, as all info is good info!

 

[Lobbe]

I'm not into crafting but still that was some useful facts thank

 

[Clonestar]

Very nice info indeed! +rep (to all for the info!) Thx for sharing!

 

[Etopia]

The original research that Etopia did on this is out of date. Now that we have SIB BPs which can reach a higher CoS than the old-school BPs, the numbers have been shifted up, so that a SIB BP with 100 QR and maxed on skill is now needed to give 42% CoS (and fills more of the bar than that shown in the picture above).

The principle remains the same, but the numbers are no longer correct.

If that was that simple , i would be happy , but its way more complicated.
Its seems , there is BP "familly".
My number are still correct , for the BP in the old school familly , like the old tailoring BP.
I made some test for the texture BP , and you need a 100qr maxed BP , to get a cos of 39% or so ( there is some number in my thread about real cos).
i also cheked some other BP , and they seems to not works same , like tool and atachment.

The cos bar is now just a guide , and not be trusted , until we can sort out all BP familly , and make research on all those familly...

 

[Oleg]

If that was that simple , i would be happy , but its way more complicated.
Its seems , there is BP "familly".
My number are still correct , for the BP in the old school familly , like the old tailoring BP.
I made some test for the texture BP , and you need a 100qr maxed BP , to get a cos of 39% or so ( there is some number in my thread about real cos).
i also cheked some other BP , and they seems to not works same , like tool and atachment.

The cos bar is now just a guide , and not be trusted , until we can sort out all BP familly , and make research on all those familly...

But some small tests that were done recently suggested max CoS on old-school BPs is now 38%, and max CoS on SIB BPs (i.e. maxed on skills and QR) is 42%, if I remember the figures right.