This is how hunting looks like currently in entropiauniverse for avg player.

[Iceman2003]

Last 2 days shows me a real face of this game:

EDIT:

Updating situation after another 2 days of shooting, cat4 all the time

Always been dedicated to this game but what is going on lately its out of my financial reach.

From end of hallo mayhem till the begin of easter hallo I cycled in total 579 658,92 peds and gets in return 542 933,62 peds. On christmas I was using all the time bc-60+armatrix 42P amps. Outside Event unl BC-30 with Beast/armatrix 17p or without any amps. Hunting alwasy small mobs up to 1200hp 99% of the time and on Mayhems cat 3-5.
Looter animal lvl 50, mutant 47, robot 43
Total loss, 36,7k

Easter Mayhem. Using adj ml-35+mayhem alpha amps. Already cycled 137 394,44peds in cat 4,5,6,7. And today I just reach great milesone, lost already over 11k peds tt even not finishing redulite. Im not getting any multis or compensations for loosing almost 50k peds in bit more than 4 months. Anyone thinks that this is normal? How many people can allow for such losses? Is there any chance to recover or I just sell my stuff and get out of this game. Any tips are welcome

 

[SSN]

You don't cycle enough
You dont play enough
Believe in yourself
Increase your looter to 200
You don't have enough eff
Try to change things
Do something else
Years is not enoug, come back after 20 years grind
Too small sample
Have you tried hunting naked ?
Must be your uneco fap
You are in the wrong cat
Buuuut don't chase the hof !
You're doing something wrong
Learn to play noob
Play the game, live the game, learn the game
You are not smart enough


Allright, you are protected against the bullshit now as i already said it

 

[Baldurn]

Did you verify those numbers in for example Excel? When I use lootnanny I have on many occassions seen a lot of loots not being counted, which is especially visible when globals are not counted. I think lootnanny is a fun tool, but I would never base my calculations on it given its faults.

 

[Iceman2003]

Did you verify those numbers in for example Excel? When I use lootnanny I have on many occassions seen a lot of loots not being counted, which is especially visible when globals are not counted. I think lootnanny is a fun tool, but I would never base my calculations on it given its faults

Yes, I always verified it base on my excel file where I wrote everything. So the 0,5mil cycled is from my excel data. Nanny is only to see how it looks like for me in current state and from 2 days this is how it looks, not even 82% after 3,3k mobs killed in cat4/5

 

[SSN]

To have a correct answer, must keep shooting to get that x2000. Pure theory. Some waiting for their x2000 since forever.

 

[RobBuona]

Sometimes you have to sustain consistent losses for 6+ months before getting a kickback. It's nice to have a chance at a big hof, but things are too volatile these days for the average player.

 

[Edgewise]

Hey,


First of all... I know the pain


I hope it changes for you. I'll show you what made me jump on the "DPP-wagon"


For change to happen, I think you need to boost your dpp.
That's my only tip, how you go along and boost your dpp from 2.86040 to something above 3.4 dpp.

to proceed with a change of gear that allows this DPP, would bring you:

from
286 damage per ped

to

340 damage per ped



or, 56 more damage per ped
560 more damage per 10 ped
5600 more damage per 100 ped
56000 more damage per 1000 ped

560 000 more damage per 10k peds


and that brings you to the simple conclusion...

4835402 damage done at the cost of 16907
VS
5748380 damage done at the cost of 16907


a difference of 912978 damage...
now for something to think about:

how many extra loot events, would 912978 damage give you? and do you believe that this would even out your total returns for the hunt pictured above?

I'll leave this to you to think about =)


all I can say is, I used ml-35 adjusted for some time. I changed my setup and am now playing at above 3.5 DPP (for just slightly above the cost of ML-35 + dante) + the new easter ring, which boost my dpp by a STUPID amount! (think about it: 15% faster reload, or 5% crit? 15% faster cycle, or higher DPP at a slightly slower pace?). I sacrificed my SECOND looted Christmas 2021 ring for a Easter 2022, since Easter 2022 is the cheapest most eco ring you can get your hands on currently.


I hope you find a way to boost your gameplay! DPP DPP DPP DPP DPP (and efficiency!)


Good luck, if you have any thoughts feel free to PM me

 

[Deemer]

How many people can allow for such losses? Is there any chance to recover or I just sell my stuff and get out of this game. Any tips are welcome

It seems like a good option, I don't think you're the 1st one who refuses to pay for the benefit of 24h bots.

PPRPS..
MA made some changes with the beginning of Mayhem ... like a finger from behind ... you don't see it ... but you just feel that its thickness is different.

 

[minim]

Did you verify those numbers in for example Excel? When I use lootnanny I have on many occassions seen a lot of loots not being counted, which is especially visible when globals are not counted. I think lootnanny is a fun tool, but I would never base my calculations on it given its faults.

I have seen the same thing now during mayhem. Firs time when it was 1700ped off on a 13-14k run I thought I must have had a mistake in my excel sheets. Then it happened on the next run also and I'm 100% sure I didn't make a mistake then.

 

[morey]

i rocked 84% tt for fen mace for a few days (94% avg with that mace for me)

I was down almost 90k tt between Halloween 21 till now using a bunch of different weapons. But, losses made sense with the mu .

 

[atomicstorm]

Welcome to the new entropia. I guess this is what they wanted with the changes they put in place last year. I don't know how anyone thought this would sustain players.

 

[Art Jennifer]

This is just entropia… won’t ever change.

 

[Baldurn]

I have seen the same thing now during mayhem. Firs time when it was 1700ped off on a 13-14k run I thought I must have had a mistake in my excel sheets. Then it happened on the next run also and I'm 100% sure I didn't make a mistake then.

Yes some times it missed a lot for me aswell. I track every PEC like an autist in excel with several safety measures so feel pretty confident that it misses. Have also seen it in real time on many occassions where it doesn't register the loot. I haven't seen the cost being wrong though, only loots.

 

[Synial]

You are not alone. This happens to me every mayhem as well. I've been using the same weapon setup for nearly 100 prof. levels now and have tracked since day 1 - every mayhem since halloween is a -20k to -30k tt loss and then a slow trickle of multiple ~1-3k hofs over the next 2 months to bring me back to expected value. Currently -17760.29 tt in Easter 2022 (not including enhancers etc).

Welcome to the new entropia. I guess this is what they wanted with the changes they put in place last year. I don't know how anyone thought this would sustain players.

Pretty much this. Changes were clear after Halloween came and went. I was looking into massively increasing my DPS but frankly do not believe ffffffffffff justifies needing a low 6 figure ped card to sustain my losses if I were to extrapolate my data.

losses made sense with the mu

I read stuff like this so much now it makes me think I've missed an addendum to the 2.0 loot mechanics announcement. MU has 0 influence on TT returns, yeah?

 

[Deemer]

i rocked 84% tt for fen mace for a few days (94% avg with that mace for me)

I was down almost 90k tt between Halloween 21 till now using a bunch of different weapons. But, losses made sense with the mu .

You mean that you have buyer of 150% shrapnel and 10 ped box each?

If the goal is to force me to buy weapons worth 20 ped for $20k... at least they can make everything tradable again, and just to pay to the same bots in these instances.

I didn't understand why the nerf on the boxes was decreasing and their markup, but now I understood... people are selling and leaving.

 

[Entropia Dao]

You pay for:

• MA
• Planet Parter
• CLD/deed holders
• A couple ubers
• Resellers

Keep up the great work, a lot of lives depend on you spending money.
By any chance, can you get a second mortgage on your house?

TBH, you pay to play, just like a casino or a real life hunting/fishing trip.
You can't blame the game for costing what it costs. I has been this way since forever.

 

[atomicstorm]

You are not alone. This happens to me every mayhem as well. I've been using the same weapon setup for nearly 100 prof. levels now and have tracked since day 1 - every mayhem since halloween is a -20k to -30k tt loss and then a slow trickle of multiple ~1-3k hofs over the next 2 months to bring me back to expected value. Currently -17760.29 tt in Easter 2022 (not including enhancers etc).


Pretty much this. Changes were clear after Halloween came and went. I was looking into massively increasing my DPS but frankly do not believe ffffffffffff justifies needing a low 6 figure ped card to sustain my losses if I were to extrapolate my data.


I read stuff like this so much now it makes me think I've missed an addendum to the 2.0 loot mechanics announcement. MU has 0 influence on TT returns, yeah?

As it relates to all this, TT doesn't matter. All that matters is if you are smart enough to beat the TT loss with markup. Sounds like a lot of people aren't. And it's hard I will admit.

You can look at my log. It's an honest log, unlike many. You can see it is still possible even with the steep volatility. Doesn't mean the RTP changed. Just means the volatility did.

If you are crafting, you have to count that too in the TT. Baselines are different.

 

[Iceman2003]

You pay for:

• MA
• Planet Parter
• CLD/deed holders
• A couple ubers
• Resellers

Keep up the great work, a lot of lives depend on you spending money.
By any chance, can you get a second mortgage on your house?

TBH, you pay to play, just like a casino or a real life hunting/fishing trip.
You can't blame the game for costing what it costs. I has been this way since forever.

Sure, you are right, thats why I stopped depositing and bought ticket to Canada to visit my family for the money I had prepare for next depos to cover the losses. No more depo to the game, quess who will loose on that long term. Me or the game?
50k in 4months that is way too much for the fun eu is giving you.

 

[Synial]

As it relates to all this, TT doesn't matter. All that matters is if you are smart enough to beat the TT loss with markup. Sounds like a lot of people aren't. And it's hard I will admit.

I think I'm maybe misunderstanding something (mayhem sleep deprivation ) but I thought that the OP's point was to stress that TT returns are quite relevant in the new format for the majority of EU participants?

The OP's summary was:

And today I just reach great milesone, lost already over 11k peds tt even not finishing redulite. Im not getting any multis or compensations for loosing almost 50k peds in bit more than 4 months. Anyone thinks that this is normal? How many people can allow for such losses? Is there any chance to recover or I just sell my stuff and get out of this game. Any tips are welcome

-$1,100 on the halfway point through mayhem on an already losing streak is probably not ideal advertisement. I wouldn't be surprised if his weapon setup (adj ml35+mayhem amps) is better than average player. Many players are in the same boat and I don't think the answer is to tell everyone without $10k+ bankroll to downgrade to barbarellas and kill punies or something.

You (@atomicstorm) said yourself "I don't know how anyone thought this would sustain players." so I don't understand the pivot. This isn't about me btw (my bankroll is what it needs to be and I am in the green after MU). My post was only intended to say to the OP that his TT loss is not irregular - and I don't think that's really a good thing given that this event structure change (according to their financials) was intended to drive participation not deter it.

Do people actually want the high volatility? I don't craft on condition and would personally rather never global if it meant my returns were more consistent. I'm not here for the gambling aspect that so many enjoy though I guess.

 

[atomicstorm]

Any time someone complains on PCF, it is always about TT. TT is not relevant. Your ability to fill the gap with markup is.

Yes, volatility is steeper and is not for the faint of heart. Should it be this way? No, I don't think so - I believe it is not a good way to sustain players. The markup % gets better, the higher your DPP Is. Makes it easier to close that TT gap. If all you do is focus on TT, you will always be miserable and it's not going to change. This game was always like this. It just now requires more knowledge because the curves are deeper.

 

[Jhereg]

Last 2 days shows me a real face of this game:

Always been dedicated to this game but what is going on lately its out of my financial reach.

From end of hallo mayhem till the begin of easter hallo I cycled in total 579 658,92 peds and gets in return 542 933,62 peds. On christmas I was using all the time bc-60+armatrix 42P amps. Outside Event unl BC-30 with Beast/armatrix 17p or without any amps. Hunting alwasy small mobs up to 1200hp 99% of the time and on Mayhems cat 3-5.
Looter animal lvl 50, mutant 47, robot 43
Total loss, 36,7k

Easter Mayhem. Using adj ml-35+mayhem alpha amps. Already cycled 137 394,44peds in cat 4,5,6,7. And today I just reach great milesone, lost already over 11k peds tt even not finishing redulite. Im not getting any multis or compensations for loosing almost 50k peds in bit more than 4 months. Anyone thinks that this is normal? How many people can allow for such losses? Is there any chance to recover or I just sell my stuff and get out of this game. Any tips are welcome

Some anecdotal advice from me:

For average hunts (average mobs), my tt return % can swing up to plus or minus 3% over an 100k cycle range from my expected value (example, if I expect 97% average over the long term, I could see 94-100% tt return over 100k cycled. This is just a rough estimate, not exact values of course). So based on your looter, eff, and dpp, you are probably within the expected range of return (near the bottom of the range though).

Take a look at my thread on eff/looter impacts. The effect is pretty significant. The more you can improve those, the less you'll lose. The system is designed so that as you progress you lose fewer peds, but you have to pay something into the system at the beginning to boost your looter. Some choices there matter, such as what codex skill/chipping you do, and of course what efficiency you operate at.


One last note, it appears the system is designed so that depending on your skill level, it assumes you cycle at a certain rate. The system scales so that what you pay per hour seems to scale to that cycle rate. So I might cycle twice as much as you, but I'll only pay half due to better looter per hour of gameplay. This is just an observation on my part, but I think leveling looter means players at higher lvls pay less per ped cycled, but not less overall ped paid into the system.

 

[Fanan]

This mayhem loots are broken. System never compensate for anything. Doesn't matter if you lost 50 or 750 ped last night... the behave is always the same. Probably the most depressing mayhem i ever did. Definitely slowing the pace after this is finished.

Markup of boxes and tokens is just a little drop in the ocean, It won't cover not even 20% of the TT losses.

 

[Deemer]

Any time someone complains on PCF, it is always about TT. TT is not relevant. Your ability to fill the gap with markup is.

Yes, volatility is steeper and is not for the faint of heart. Should it be this way? No, I don't think so - I believe it is not a good way to sustain players. The markup % gets better, the higher your DPP Is. Makes it easier to close that TT gap. If all you do is focus on TT, you will always be miserable and it's not going to change. This game was always like this. It just now requires more knowledge because the curves are deeper.

Mayhem is a TT return dude, I would agree with this in any other case. But those tokens are in storages and waiting some rare next to them for some good item... Anyway... even 10% TT return can be awesome if the loot has min 1000% MU.

Before Mary Mayhem, the big bots complained because they can't dominate Rare Tokens... and that's the consequence the MA has did.

 

[Synial]

Sounds like atomic and I are on the same page.

@OP, If you want actual advice that isn't "just keep shooting".. I found success with a model of assuming a 4 month span of 93%, 96%, 97%, 99%. I expect to change this to around 94, 97, 98, 100 around summer as my looters get a bit higher.

Do what you have to do to find markup to raise the average net return to put you at a place where you can afford to breakeven/profit/deposit and keep playing.

If the numbers above don't check out and it's too expensive it means you aren't actually looking for markup or your gun is to big for your budget. Having the bankroll to survive the down period is the most important thing and tbh most people probably shoot at 2-4x their affordable dps from what I've seen.

The volatility sucks but it can be managed if you actually work and not just shoot random stuff hoping to win versus the tt.

TLDR of the current mayhem structure (in my experience) is that you probably need to be able to sustain short-term loss of $2-3k to play around 175 dps (3.8 dpp) though. This does come back - but only if you can afford to invest in tokens with the same mindset if you were buying deeds instead.

 

[Deleted member 58836]

Even with finding markup to sustain the system losses is your time worth it?

I would argue having one of the top 10 gear setups would be worth the time but outside of that your time could be better spent finding markup IRL?

This is of concern if participant numbers are to increase with the UE5 launch. Casuals will not stay if they're only seeing losses day in and day out waiting for catchup loot and the barrier to entry for a top 10 gear setup keeps them from turning from casuals to serious participants. There's too large of a gap between playing at a loss to breaking even to profiting (in a reasonable amount of time).

 

[Iceman2003]

Sounds like atomic and I are on the same page.

@OP, If you want actual advice that isn't "just keep shooting".. I found success with a model of assuming a 4 month span of 93%, 96%, 97%, 99%. I expect to change this to around 94, 97, 98, 100 around summer as my looters get a bit higher.

Do what you have to do to find markup to raise the average net return to put you at a place where you can afford to breakeven/profit/deposit and keep playing.

If the numbers above don't check out and it's too expensive it means you aren't actually looking for markup or your gun is to big for your budget. Having the bankroll to survive the down period is the most important thing and tbh most people probably shoot at 2-4x their affordable dps from what I've seen.

The volatility sucks but it can be managed if you actually work and not just shoot random stuff hoping to win versus the tt.

TLDR of the current mayhem structure (in my experience) is that you probably need to be able to sustain short-term loss of $2-3k to play around 175 dps (3.8 dpp) though. This does come back - but only if you can afford to invest in tokens with the same mindset if you were buying deeds instead.

As I said, I was using bc-60L and now ml-35 adj only on events, on regular daily basis im using unl bc-30 with eff over 80%. That gun has only 42 dps so its like pea shooter and im using it on small mobs, 400-1k hp, nothing fancy. Yet still im just drowning and drowning whatever Im doing.

 

[atomicstorm]

Mayhem is a TT return dude, I would agree with this in any other case. But those tokens are in storages and waiting some rare next to them for some good item... Anyway... even 10% TT return can be awesome if the loot has min 1000% MU.

Before Mary Mayhem, the big bots complained because they can't dominate Rare Tokens... and that's the consequence the MA has did.

Completely irrelevant statement. You are a blind archer and missed the mark completely. No, "Mayhem is NOT a TT return"... dude.

Mayhem has the best MU in the game. Not going to argue this. This is even without the tokens. If you don't want to wait for a rare, then you can just redeem and sell the pills. There's a path for everyone.

This game has never given a quick compensation after a few days. For me, my 2 big hits in mayhem came on the heels of losing the last 3 months, and even that I would say is too short of a timeframe but I cycle more than 99% of players.

 

[Gopher]

Solid 90% tt return all throughout easter mayhem for me, 6% MU though so not as bad

 

[Art Jennifer]

Just for the people saying TT returns are not important. You’re wrong.
TT return of 80%
TT return of 85%. This return is easier to break even using MU..

you need to maximise TT returns then MU adds on top

 

[Deemer]

Completely irrelevant statement. You are a blind archer and missed the mark completely. No, "Mayhem is NOT a TT return"... dude.

Mayhem has the best MU in the game. Not going to argue this. This is even without the tokens. If you don't want to wait for a rare, then you can just redeem and sell the pills. There's a path for everyone.

This game has never given a quick compensation after a few days. For me, my 2 big hits in mayhem came on the heels of losing the last 3 months, and even that I would say is too short of a timeframe but I cycle more than 99% of players.

Maybe you should contact me with your shrapnel distributor in this case.

As for the rest, I think MA had announced that they are not interested in MU among the players. That is, whether one subject will be 20k or 200 ped ... they are obviously not interested, but in this case they have doubled the volatility to expel the majority who do not have a 300k ped bankroll to make these runs, which makes your statement inappropriate, because Mayhem is not even a month.

Speaking of 300k ped bankroll, what advice would you give me about Azuro, which is my goal, because I'm not from the group of complexes to play a game with a $100k.