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TK120 - Range Enhancers Effect

Nobatbbi

Nobatbbi

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Donatello Donatello Nobatti
I have a TK120(L) with real good tiering numbers such that it is fully unlocked thru Tier X. Having that in hand, thought it would be a good contribution to obtain a full set of range enhancers to determine the full effect of having all tier slots filled. At this time it's possible only thru Tier IX since I believe the Tier X mining finder range enhancer has not yet been looted by Auk (lol. sorry, couldn't resist). In the mean time, I've estimated the Tier X increase based on the other tiers for my table:

tk120_range_enh_figures.jpg


I'm maxed on the finder, if that matters. With no enhancers the durability is Above Average, but drops to Average when adding the IV enhancer. I haven't done the drops with each to see in detail the decay difference cause I'm kind of afraid of breaking a enhancer (about 25 ped each).

And, finally, I would like to confirm the Tier X one. So I'll be keeping my eye out for one to appear on the auction someday.
 
great contribution. thanks! plus rep
 
Nice project Don :)

From your data, we can conclude with pretty good certainty that each range enhancer cumulatively (not compound-ly) increases the base radius by 1.000% +/- 0.003% (so that 9 enhancers has a total effect of a 9.000% radius increase), if we assume that:

*The base radius for the tk120 is exactly 54 meters
*All enhancers have the same effect
*The displayed enhanced radius is rounded (not truncated) to the nearest 0.1 meter

Cool beans.
 
Very nice! In theory 20% increase of search area is big difference, and now you could test does MA have algorithmgs (sumtin liek that) to determine % of claims or are the claims allready in the ground and balanced in way to give you certain % of claims in long run.
 
What about costs?
 
Cea said:
What about costs?
Click to expand...


Which costs?

Enhancer cost - at the time it averaged 25 ped each, so about 250 ped for one in every slot. They are a little higher now for these, I think average is more like 30-35, check the auction Tier 1's have BO about 4000-4500%.

Finder decay - didn't try it case I didn't want to lose my ~250 ped to enhancer breakage. I did note that durability went to Average from Above Average when the 4th slot was filled.

Cost vs profit while mining with full load of range enhancers - again, sorry, didn't want to risk the enhancers. I think there are some small reports around of folks doing ok with range enhancers. Thing is that the costs are still pretty high and it looks like they'll stay that way. So, for example, if you wanted to run with a Tier 1 enhancer that extra 1.86% area (170 sq meters) needs to provide about 40 peds of extra ores before the enhancer breaks.

Enhancer breakage - couple of us have averaged our small sampling of tests and see approx 50-100 uses on an enhancer.

Hope this helps answer some questions. Feel free to buy some enhancers and contribute your results to the discussion.

I'm still holding the 9 range enhancers I have for a little while and the finder still has some TT on it so if somebody loots the tier X range enhancer bp soon I may be able to verify the final.
 
Awesome data, great work :) + rep!
 
Maybe for when you use oa-106/107/108/109
Maybe for CND
Maybe for the redulite,ruga and tridente areas with the right finder.

Cant see the economy with lower lvl amps.

I also find it cool that I get 55m radius for free with OF-211 while you have to use lvl I and lvl II range enhancers for your 54m radius to get same "hitrate"?.
 
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I see the increase rates are .5, .6, .5 ,.6 and so on...


It's much more likely its .54, which is 1% of original value, but the finder only shows range to 1.dp, meaning at 54.54 it shows 54.5, and at 55.08 it shows 55.1 etc.....

This falls in line with the point where it is only +.5 for two tiers... more clearly:
Code: 
54                       54                   
54.54                  54.5                    +.5
55.08                  55.1                    +.6
55.62                  55.6                    +.5
56.16                  56.1                    +.5
56.7                   56.7                    +.6
57.24                  57.2                    +.5
57.78                  57.8                    +.6
58.34                  58.3                    +.5
58.88                  58.9                    +.6
59.42                  59.4                    +.5

This minor difference would change your set of data for the "area increase" making it more exponential instead of wavy :), each additional tier, while adding the same radius, adds more total area than the previous, for the same TT cost... meaning on a basic level with no deeper feeling it is more eco to use as many enhancers as possible of this type than just using one.
 
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The only benefit to use range enhancers are to make both your finders as close to each other as possible, ie to get the same search range. Which is impossible to get but you can get within 0.1m.
 
Actually i see very little purpose for range enhancers... only to "scout" unknown area or carpet bombing (and from my experience it is better just to visit places you already know there are resources there). Why i think they are useless other than that?
Because you can find only one calim at a time... so in high density areas they make no sense to use. If miner has his spot for mining - its common he will drop bombes/probes even if the circles overlap a bit - in "hot spots" there could be few claims close to each other.

But thanks for shwoing how range changes with enhancers :).

What more concern me is: how exactly depth enhancers work. Do they:
1) extend only maxium depth (i.e. finder depth: 300-600, with enh: 300-630)
2) extend both min and max (i dont think so but example: 280-630)
3) extend max but reduce min (350-650, so only average depth changes)
4) reduce both min and max but average is higher (350-620)

I think most probably is 3)... well knowing this you could adjust one finder to place with specific ores/enamters knowing they should be there :).

Falagor
:bandit:
 
The only reasons would be to use them as i said above. The average distance between resources are ~63m and since you cant get up to that range there is no reason to go more than to get both your finders the same range. In a big cluster it could perhaps be usefull but i dont really see the reason for it.
 
Legion said:
The only reasons would be to use them as i said above. The average distance between resources are ~63m and since you cant get up to that range there is no reason to go more than to get both your finders the same range. In a big cluster it could perhaps be usefull but i dont really see the reason for it.
Click to expand...

Is that true? Did you or anyone else tested it?
 
HybOj said:
Is that true? Did you or anyone else tested it?
Click to expand...

it's always been like that. Ie when the old old veins existed the average distance was roughly 63m, and it still is. although ofcourse we do have clusters now which might make the distance less but in the vein itself the distance is roughly 63m.
 
i've been using range enhancers on my tk320. i currently have 4 in there right now. range is 56.2. i notice no change in return. in fact quite the opposite. i have lost about 60% of my mining capital since i started using them. so i think that they don't help your % return at all. i suspect that it is just another 'enhancer' to help enhance MA's profits.


current run is 21 OA-103's in the last week or so. you can check my tracker. i have 2 globals in this period. 106 and 93 ped. total junk.
 
Superhal said:
Enhancers will be forever useless unless they increase returns.
Click to expand...

It isn't black or white. They all have their merits. For mining range enh, they are beneficial for exploring a new area... probably good if you are only doing 1 type of mining at a time.... they might even be beneficial on CND. Depth needs some data but I'd think they have their benefits as well....

logging in is useless unless they increase returns
 
It's so obvious what range enhancers will do and what they are good for. They are anti amps, ie u find slightly more but slightly less with the enhancer TT compensating slightly so you don't notice too much, especially if your amped too.

So obviously better for looking for rares, since as usually they are in a smallish area, so you want the best chance to hit "anything" which in turn makes it more likely to get some markup back. Simples, compare the market .com
 
blabla,nothing interesting ;)
 
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btw, the increase on tier X is the same as the other, i made some to see.
 
I just use the range enhancers to get to the same search radius on both my tools, the rest is all depth. If depth is worth it or not is another question though.
 
Necro with some decay data.

I put Range I and/or II on a tk320(L) and OF-211 (L).

Decay with one enhancer (either one) increased 10.0% on both finders.

Decay with both enhancers increased 20.0% on both finders.

It's probably the same for III-X as well, but I'll just update entropedia with data for I and II.
 
Noodles said:
Necro with some decay data.

I put Range I and/or II on a tk320(L) and OF-211 (L).

Decay with one enhancer (either one) increased 10.0% on both finders.

Decay with both enhancers increased 20.0% on both finders.

It's probably the same for III-X as well, but I'll just update entropedia with data for I and II.
Click to expand...

Thats a lot :(
 
nothing to see, obviously not interesting :p
 
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Nobatbbi said:
I have a TK120(L) with real good tiering numbers such that it is fully unlocked thru Tier X. Having that in hand, thought it would be a good contribution to obtain a full set of range enhancers to determine the full effect of having all tier slots filled. At this time it's possible only thru Tier IX since I believe the Tier X mining finder range enhancer has not yet been looted by Auk (lol. sorry, couldn't resist). In the mean time, I've estimated the Tier X increase based on the other tiers for my table:

tk120_range_enh_figures.jpg


I'm maxed on the finder, if that matters. With no enhancers the durability is Above Average, but drops to Average when adding the IV enhancer. I haven't done the drops with each to see in detail the decay difference cause I'm kind of afraid of breaking a enhancer (about 25 ped each).

And, finally, I would like to confirm the Tier X one. So I'll be keeping my eye out for one to appear on the auction someday.
Click to expand...

ehhhhmmm considering the cost of the enhancers (without considering to tier an UL item) i don t see this great good in enhancer range use. I mean if i will gain just 20% on tier 10 (this mean i must put 10 different kind of enhancers and invest in them) and pay more decay in a random way, well maybe better just to drop some more bombs with no enhancer IMO
 
nvm, not interesting
 
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Squal, what you say is true if tt return takes in account also surface covered. I don't believe they threw range enhancers in just to be there, them could have a use, but I don't see it. The major downside which I see is that with one bomb you can take anyway one claim, no more. It could be that the system compensates the area covered and for 12 drops @ 50m range we'll see same results as for 10 drops/w enhancers @ 60m range (grosier math :D), but as far as fact/proof goes, that's just about where Legion stands too :p
 
Kerham said:
Squal, what you say is true if tt return takes in account also surface covered. I don't believe they threw range enhancers in just to be there, them could have a use, but I don't see it. The major downside which I see is that with one bomb you can take anyway one claim, no more. It could be that the system compensates the area covered and for 12 drops @ 50m range we'll see same results as for 10 drops/w enhancers @ 60m range (grosier math :D), but as far as fact/proof goes, that's just about where Legion stands too :p
Click to expand...

well more or less this was my point. In the miner profession we don t have for amp a clear idea how they work and for enhancer them broke in a random way. In the hunter profession amp and enhancers give a clear advantage: less armor decay, less fapping cause of the fast killing. The loot can still sucks but at least you get some back (in decay money saving). With the miner profession look like that amp amd enhancer give you just the more necessary decay to tell to the MA software: hey dude here we are wasting ped, give me some more. This can be done just dropping more bombs. Despite the respect i have for anyone that try to make a sense in the loot system, i guess at this point everybody agree that there is a correlation between money spent and loot. IMO more bombs=amp=enhancers, just a matter of decay.
 
thanks for all that work, it's kinda interesting.

i am lost now with all those mathematics, decaying high markup enhancer or dropping a bit more bomb to cover the same surface. :scratch:

I guess, sometimes buisness may take over on the logic.
 
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