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TP Fee: History Repeats on Forum?

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JohnCapital said:
Seriously though

In 2008 some nobody asks for tp fees, then proclaims they'll be the first EU President.

Now 8 years later, our "1st pres" first issue is tp fees.

Am I the only one to think that's just weird?
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n years later, a nostalgic man on a lonely night with his bottle of rum reads old forums and thinks to himself: "hey, that's an idea!" :)
 
I spend time to read an off topic argument :scratch2:

In topic

TP fee is a mistake! Avoid it before it happen pls
 
DoA said:
- people that are here working / offering their services to the first category of players; they would do (more or less) qualified jobs, that are not necessarily neither easy, pleasant or entertainment, but they will get paid for this and they will be actually able to make a profit out of this, treat it as a (full time) job or even as a business (for example, at the hourly rates proposed by Neverdie, this payment will not only beat the minimum hourly rate in my country big time, but even the average hourly rate)

As long as he is convinced that he can attract enough people from both categories in the game, I really can't think what's wrong with this approach - some people pay for their entertainment, some people are paid to provide said entertainment for the first category.
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You know come to think of it that really isn't all that bad of an idea. For this to work fully we really need MA to remove the oil rigs and sweating and of course fruit. We have all that you need right now at the TT for you to gear up and go out and work for that oil and pick that fruit with that new limited fruit picking tool. You could then at anytime sale it back to us. As well I guess we could have sweating still but that as well would need to be a limited tool you buy from the TT. All in all great idea there. Hope MA makes your dream world soon.
 
DoA said:
That's a pure lie!

Show me a single place where I said I even consider leaving the game (not leaving the forums) and not one week back, but anytime during this year and I'll do and say ANYTHING you want...

I assure you there isn't and there wasn't any such thread made by me.

Normally apologies should be in order when you'll realize you was wrong, but I doubt that will happen.
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I apologise for mistyping, I did ofc mean forum and not game.
 
atomicstorm said:
^ if this logic and behavior is the future of EU.. show me the exit.
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I will find my own way out asap.

Thank you JC for the amazing detective work... I cant +rep you again yet
 
slither said:
I apologise for mistyping, I did ofc mean forum and not game.
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Apologies accepted.

Also please forgive me for believing you won't be able to do so.

And yes, you are right, I did said that (and how strange that sounds, I still count myself as out of forums), but I made an exception with this since I really think it's a great idea that would potentially benefit new / low level / low budget players like myself a lot, and I felt the need to say my POV and defend my president in front of all attacks towards him and his idea.
 
DoA said:
Zero sum game, some people getting jobs (making money)? Wasn't that obvious that some other people will have to (indirectly) pay for those jobs?
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Well it prolly was the most obvious explanation but not necessarily the only one.
For example:
There was a (failed) project aimed at bringing in money from external sources (the advert screens powered by Massive Dynamic). This was the only official attempt but many similar unofficial projects are still used by many EU players today.
There is some functions game developers and admins could hand over to the players, along with the funds (one of them was even mentioned by ND). It's only a theory and it's a long shot but the idea itself isn't stupid at all.
There's a few even more exotic possibilities ... but yeah, that's why I wasn't certain what is the exact funding mechanism until I actually read it.

We found out u were right all the time, good for u... But telling the paying customers they will pay even more for things they didn't ask. That's just bad politics.

This whole story reminds me tightrope walking - it's only entertaining until u fall off... :smoke:
 
DoA said:
Now some basic logic lesson:

1) You very well said in another thread that EU is a zero sum game (actually, less than that, since MA earns a share), so is clear that whatever money someone makes has to come from someone else paying those money. Right?

2) Now Neverdie's campaign had a single big idea... create tons (not even I dare to say the number he said) of jobs (by definition a job is a way of making money).

Now putting the two things together... how come you haven't seen this coming? Zero sum game, some people getting jobs (making money)? Wasn't that obvious that some other people will have to (indirectly) pay for those jobs? Where else did you thought those jobs would come for? Who did you thought will pay for them?
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I agree at the part:
The money someone is making in EU is paid by someone else.

MA is always winner, as they take the 10% (their operational cost + profit)
Players can only win what is deposited - that fee that MA took away.

Now I am around in EU a long time, and have done many jobs in EU.

Here is a list of the existing jobs in EU, and payment is not indirectly, its straight from the player hiring you (or buying your product).

  • Sweater
  • Fruitwalker
  • Rig oil collector
  • FAPer
  • PreDamager
  • Runner
  • Trader
  • Crafer on order
  • Colorer
  • Texturer
  • Tier upgrader
  • Repairer
  • Pilot
  • Taxidriver
  • Gunner/Protector

Most of this jobs I have done myself, some of them can make you really good money.
The worst paid of all is sweater, but new player has to start somewhere, so that was my first job.

For all this jobs you mainly need time, for those which you need to have decay/cost, this cost will be directly paid by the player hiring you.

I still don´t get how an additional fee, could generate any jobs.
I have no problem to pay some of my deposits to other players that provide a service, but it should be my own decission to whom I pay my PED. This would be no longer the case if I have to pay TP fee that got used to pay some abstract jobs ND is dreaming off.
Actually he did not explain, what jobs and how it should work.

If ND brings up a detailed plan for this new jobs, with all data around it: Who can do it, why is it needed, how much will be paid for it and so on and so on, then maybe and a big maybe I will be willing to accept a really small TP fee to finance that.
Not giving any details about this "jobs" just demanding an additional fee that directly leeds to higher cost to play for me (Calculated it, for my case a 1 PED TP fee will result in additional 50$ cost to play / month), its not acceptable.

I am not rich RL, 50$ is a lot of money for me.
My monthly deposit is really enough payment for the fun I get out of EU, can´t accept another 50$ for nothing!

I have some RL investments aswell, and befor dropping additional 50$ a month into EU, where I regularly lose 100% of the invested money, I really prefer to increase my RL investments by 50$ a month.

Hope you get my point.

I am here for my personal fun, I pay for my fun.
Others profit from my deposits, when I buy ME/Sweat/Nexus or crafting resources.
I profit from other players too, from those paying my FAP service, or buying my stuff I have for sale with small MUs.

All my PED regularly get cycled back into the loot circle.

Never did a withdraw so far, not intend to do a withdraw in near future.
Once when I retire from EU in anger, I surely will chip out, sell all my gear and skills and withdraw whats left from all my deposits over the years, but that is not in sight.
The more stupid ideas got implemented that just increase my cost to play, the more likely I will reach that point where I grab my money and leave EU. Personally I hope that never will happen, but with NDs idea on top, the chance that I come to this point is drastically increased.
Yeah I know, don´t let door hit you in the back! Thats what I normally say to quiters, because I am a true believer in EU concept, but every good concept can be killed with stupid actions and ideas.
 
So in this new utopia players will pay the wages for all these people on this minimum wage, sorry but I think you will find at the rates mentioned people will just leave. I'll still be here ofc, but i'll just join the pay-cheque queue and not deposit again.

Actually bloody great idea, do it :laugh:. (sarcasm mode)
 
the bigger picture is the deed they want to sell 1 million of them for 10 dollar each if i read it corectly

that what ma wants the rest is chump change another 10 million for what compets feed
 
GoNi said:
Here is a list of the existing jobs in EU, and payment is not indirectly, its straight from the player hiring you (or buying your product).
  • Rig oil collector
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Very well worded and argumented post, and it actually does make a lot of sense. You have my deepest respect for that. I will answer more detailed (honestly need a bit of time to read, process and prepare an argumented answer - actually even have to think if it requires and answer since in may points we agree and the other ones seem legit enough), but there's only one point I want to make now.

Actually there's at least one example (the one I left) in your list where payment is indirect; true you can sell the oil you collect from the rigs to someone (and benefit of that 1-3% extra MU), but you can as well TT it (and the TT value is vastly higher than the markup) and those money are exactly that... indirect payment from the other players game expenses.

Also, if the space transport missions (which were promised like one year ago and to which I don't remember anyone opposing) would be implemented, that would be another example where someone will be indirectly paid by someone's else money (auction fees), without the beneficiary being able to choose the person he pays to.

So you can see that this idea is not really something unheard or not existing.
 
Guess I'll just have to try making this thread again and explain myself so folks understand the fucking topic.

Wanna debate this tax crap? Plenty other threads for that. Don't intentionally try to derail mine.

:locked:
 
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