Question: Unreasonable return since last VU

[Teiwaz Storm]

i thought at least big hofs are stopped, but just saw 2 big ones went to newbies... again

 

[dr3w]

i thought at least big hofs are stopped, but just saw 2 big ones went to newbies... again

Maybe because newbies more than vets? Vets staying - newbies comes and goes.

 

[FallenAngel]

Maybe because newbies more than vets? Vets staying - newbies comes and goes.

we also seem to have a new definition of newbies, fresh off the boat newbs now arrive at port atlantis and can hunt scoria and scips from day one.

 

[dr3w]

we also seem to have a new definition of newbies, fresh off the boat newbs now arrive at port atlantis and can hunt scoria and scips from day one.

New newbs? Hm.

 

[TienRasu]

i see ppl stil hunting so for them it must be good. ofc we all feel the loot has changed and not in a good way but i dont think this is a global matter.

 

[FallenAngel]

New newbs? Hm.

i like to call them imp newbs myself
it really doesnt help this thread if people say stupid things and just whine, im sure its much easier for MA to ignore this as just whining than it is to ignore when people like das and girts say they are noticing something is wrong, i dont see them ever complain on the forum about a bad run or two and my impression is they track everything they do in game.

 

[Svarog]

we also seem to have a new definition of newbies, fresh off the boat newbs now arrive at port atlantis and can hunt scoria and scips from day one.

There always were newbs of that kind, the truth is not many of them are still here on day two

i see ppl stil hunting so for them it must be good. ofc we all feel the loot has changed and not in a good way but i dont think this is a global matter.

Because we're addicted! No matter is it good coke... err.. loot or bad, we just need our daily dose

*losing his ass on plongu in other window while writing it*

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

we also seem to have a new definition of newbies, fresh off the boat newbs now arrive at port atlantis and can hunt scoria and scips from day one.

In fact some do, could serve you few names fro you to check, but dont want to derail this thread.... let's stay on topic of loot, whether its personal return or big payouts to people who 'in theory shouldn't be on such mobs'...

 

[das]

i like to call them imp newbs myself
it really doesnt help this thread if people say stupid things and just whine, im sure its much easier for MA to ignore this as just whining than it is to ignore when people like das and girts say they are noticing something is wrong, i dont see them ever complain on the forum about a bad run or two and my impression is they track everything they do in game.

I used to track detailed till 7 months ago, got bored from doing it +2 years as it showed me what to expect from the mobs I was hunting.
I did however started to re-track this morning as everything seems to be sh*t since vu.
I don't think my TT return is diffrent then usual or atleast not much, but the lack of markup really sucks the life out of a pedcard if you do 3k ped ammo/day atleast.
Like I said earlier, since patch 80 globals on calypso mobs
MU looted

• EWE LC-120 Purpose (L) => 85.6 ped TT
• Cryogenic Attack Nanochip III (L) => 24 ped TT
• electric attack chip X (L) => 113 ped TT

No spikes, no claws, no esi's, just 100.5% oils for the rest.
Now do the math on how much you need to cycle to get 80 globals, then count a 95% TT return (very optimistic as i usually run at 87.5-92%) & see how much I would need to cover with the mu of those 3 L items.

 

[Xen]

Mining on FOMA/HELL was relatively stable if you went unamped and dropped enough bombs to compensate for the lower find rate (or you could afford to drop enough bombs amped). That is not the case now. FOMA/HELL should not be considered some 3 headed monster, they are just land areas like others. You just have to have about 5x more drops to have the same expectations of tt return% as "normal" areas.

 

[aia]

The only real problem this game has is "costs to play" and you make it even harder to compensate the losses through markup?

But if you see it other way around: Someone pays for the markup. So while it on one hand means less profit for some people, it means less cost for someone else. As for the "easy" longus/event, it feels nice with a lower-impact event for a few weeks after the iron mission madness.

 

[das]

But if you see it other way around: Someone pays for the markup. So while it on one hand means less profit for some people, it means less cost for someone else. As for the "easy" longus/event, it feels nice with a lower-impact event for a few weeks after the iron mission madness.

as for the mu part, I did pay 35k ped for my i2870 + some tiering costs, lemme know when you've spent that on MU for eco guns.
As for the event madness, plongu's also have a full iron quest

 

[aia]

as for the mu part, I did pay 35k ped for my i2870 + some tiering costs, lemme know when you've spent that on MU for eco guns.
As for the event madness, plongu's also have a full iron quest

As I rarely have more on my PED card than what I can deposit in a month, I can't come close to that. Most expensive weapon I bought was an Archon sword for which I paid 2500 ped (well tiered once but tiering costs negligable). And my plasma rifle I paid close to that some year ago, though with less cash expense as I was practically trading in my fox ME (which in turn I had bought a couple of years ago) and then paid 1000 ped in between.

Ofc, that sword can't practically be used for a mob like Eomon. For eomons I've used 2½ Felis(L)+X90(L) to begin with (that I bought from auction), and some other weaopons looted among the way (didn't pay markup for my looted weapons but on the other hand didn't get the markup from selling them). Theoretically I could have used something like my (now even crappier) plasma rifle on Eomons, but then the fapping bill (most of the time using normal fappers having UR-125 or EK-2600). Ok, I could have used some more eco weapon (let's say p5+a104), but then armor decay+fapping bill would have been higher - probably the double.

 

[billairboy]

I think he has a pretty good idea what is the impact. The concern of DAS is very valid imho.

• Less gun TT means less proportion of MU loot vs crap for looters of the guns
• Less gun TT doesn't mean more MU % since for the users the price depends on other factors (dps, dpp, availability, skill level). The common belief is the tt return is calculated proportionally to tt spent - so why would anyone start paying more % for the input?

I don't understand the reason for trashing the established marked of weapons and replacing it with something that in best scenario will perform as well as previous.
P.S.
Not even going into the subject of the UL guns market with the new sib guns with 3.0 dmg/pec.

I can give you an exemple to why people would be prepared to pay a higher mu on guns with less decay and higher ammo burn.


Let say you have "Gun A". It decays 1.40 pec and burns 12.0 pec ammo, total tt cost per shot 13.40 pec. If the gun have a markup of 130 % it would make the cost 1,40*120%+12=13,68.

If they change the gun to only decay 0.40 pec and burn 13 pec ammo, it's still a total tt cost of 13,40 pec. But the buyer could buy the gun with a markup of 170 % and still have the same cost after markup. (170%x0,40+13=13,68)

That way we could for example have a 100 ped loot with a gun with tt value 100 ped and with markup 120 ped, or a loot with 60 ped tt stuff and a 40 ped gun with a markup value of 40*1,7=68 ped and a total 128 ped with mu.

The problem of cource with this is if you are have less decay and don't decrease the tt value of the guns enough, the overall demand of the guns could decrease and hurt the mu on weapons in general. So it's a hard balance to manage.

 

[das]

The problem of cource with this is if you are have less decay and don't decrease the tt value of the guns enough, the overall demand of the guns could decrease and hurt the mu on weapons in general.

Add to that that there will be more types of guns availlable compard to b4 & I see the reason why I only loot 1 gun in 80 globals. The other thing I was thinking is that becouse of the being new part, droprate is still low (allthough I doubt it)

While your % calculation is correct, how many ppl will compare all guns vs sorting auction on mu%?
Maybe an extra tab for weapons on auction showing actual dpp at buying % would help

 

[FallenAngel]

I don't think my TT return is diffrent then usual or atleast not much, but the lack of markup really sucks the life out of a pedcard if you do 3k ped ammo/day atleast.

there is no arguing with that, if you cant compensate somewhat by finding markup how can one justify the turnover and say to oneself im playing smart.
i dont think i have to tell you what happened with mining, to use the amps i do and be able to do a decent turnover i had to leave calypso and now the only time i am here is to auction and i might do a short hunt if im bored waiting because i have reached the item limit on auction. i didnt want to adapt in this way but what choice was i given.

 

[helena]

das,

You are correct about the fact that these new weapons have a lower decay rate in exchange for higher ammo-burn and the lower TT values would indeed create lower markup profit for you, if the MU remained the same as before. The difference is that players will now be able to pay a larger markup percentage on the TT value of the weapon as each PED in the weapon lasts longer than before.

is that a chat between you and das? what about everyone else ? ^^

 

[das]

is that a chat between you and das? what about everyone else ? ^^

Yes, & if you like to know all about it then I suggest you read the whole thread as that is the only communication I had with anyone from MA/calypso or other PP's in the last months besides 1 supportcase about connection issue's & lag

 

[Deleted member 23278]

On my fav mobs.. loot has been really disgusting, same as it's been for the last 3-4 months, no hunting global in all that time. with the new VU...the change has been the odd extra heal chip. Tried drones, trox,longu, ,Troopers, Argo, hyruu, allo/esto, feff..... (maffoids nearly globalled). but basically just as shit as it's been for months now

too many mobs not enough players

 

[BBpunisher]

I can confirm that no changes have been made to the loot system, intended or otherwise, in the latest VU.

I also have some information regarding the 0.0 ammo loots that you've been receiving. That ammo does in fact come from an additional loot-list layer that was added on top of the regular loots to fill up the last few pecs that sometimes remain to be added after higher value items have been added to the loot.

I remember being told loot was ok after the big mining vu. I was getting size II claims with lvl 5 amps.

 

[Craks]

loot loot loot

I can also just agree with Smilgs. Returned loot is damn bad, I can only get some normal globals (not even hoping to get some big, as have had just some 4number loots in 5 years) after I deposit some 2000-4000 peds. To have at least some return I have to make very long runs. and then it come also come back even to 40% return. so yes, its all really sucks.
I woulds suggest to MA to make some additional profit from investing our deposited money somewhere ( got to be quite good amount) and earn some good money from %, and leave more for players, as this NO LOOT strategy will just lead to loosing players. I also have seriously thought about what to do with account and items . I like this game very much, concept and all, but cannot afford loose 10 000 peds per month and never get something, Its starting to become worse than Casino.

 

[Jimmy B]

I don't think my TT return is diffrent then usual or atleast not much, but the lack of markup really sucks the life out of a pedcard if you do 3k ped ammo/day atleast.

Well, it seems this thread has split into two different topics. Many are claiming tt returns are much worse than usual since the VU. That's not my finding so far, and not yours either by the sound of it.

I personally rather like the look of some of the new guns. There are some very nice ones that require high but not ridiculous skills with dps similar to Felis, but may due to the lower decay be possible to hunt with rather than be just pvp toys. That could in turn increase turnover which is good for MA. It doesn't necessarily make lootable markup worse, although I'm surprised you feel a sudden difference this VU. I presumably hunt smaller mobs than you, but looting MU has been getting harder and harder for a good while imo.

It does seem part of the goal of this loot rebalance may be to reduce the MU costs of the L armies, to bring them closer up to the tt return rate. Of course, that is bad for you, but it is also good for others. So it's not immediately clear it's bad for the game.

What is clear from this thread and others like it, is that there is a confidence/trust in the loot system issue between the playerbase and MA at the moment. I do agree with what some others have said; I think it is time for MA to be more open about how the loot system works. Even if people are wrong about their recent returns, I don't see any other way to deal with the frustrations many are venting here, and until that happens I struggle to see any real growth in the playerbase happening.

 

[falkao]

...
What is clear from this thread and others like it, is that there is a confidence/trust in the loot system issue between the playerbase and MA at the moment. I do agree with what some others have said; I think it is time for MA to be more open about how the loot system works. ....

I don't think that revealing the loot system will help, but we need some sort of data monitoring. Due to the nature of the loot distribution, it is very hard for a single player to track enough loot data in a short time period to be able to conclude something.

The only thing MA should show is mean loot per mob (without ATH’s) of the last say 10k kills. This can then be tracked over time and changes should be evident.
The same data is also needed for ECO-hunting (gear setup) and is therefore a good and useful contribution for us consumers.

 

[das]

It does seem part of the goal of this loot rebalance may be to reduce the MU costs of the L armies, to bring them closer up to the tt return rate. Of course, that is bad for you, but it is also good for others. So it's not immediately clear it's bad for the game.

lower gun decay & more ammo use doesn't result in less MU, or atleast that's not the plan according to Kim's posts from last night. Thery are hoping we will sell the new guns for more mu then the older ones & stay at the same dpp after mu then b4 the whole change.
While I agree with you that some items looks nice to use, I wonder how the serious increase in diffrent weapons will affect both the mu & the camping that some hunters do now.

 

[RobBuona]

lower gun decay & more ammo use doesn't result in less MU, or atleast that's not the plan according to Kim's posts from last night. Thery are hoping we will sell the new guns for more mu then the older ones & stay at the same dpp after mu then b4 the whole change.
While I agree with you that some items looks nice to use, I wonder how the serious increase in diffrent weapons will affect both the mu & the camping that some hunters do now.

What will it do? Well, the only thing it can't do is increase MU on old items. The more substitutes there are for everything, the lower MU everything has. Don't want to pay 120% for (old) gun? Well, luckily, (new) gun is only 110%! Everyone then proceeds to do this until both guns are 115%.

 

[falkao]

lower gun decay & more ammo use doesn't result in less MU, or atleast that's not the plan according to Kim's posts from last night. Thery are hoping we will sell the new guns for more mu then the older ones & stay at the same dpp after mu then b4 the whole change.

A limited weapon with less decay but same dps/eco will lead to higher MU as the gun lasts for longer. Furthermore, as Max TT seems to be lowered as well, this will further support the market as investment is lower.

All this goes in the right direction. What MA has to solve is Max TT. It should be = 0.

The TT thinking is the old school setup. User gets TT and MA the decay is still the ingame business model, but we do know now that this will not work (check unconsumed PEDs in MA balance sheets) and the need to feed the TT machine.

With the new loot list there might be better MU items. We will see, but this is for sure not the end of the story.

 

[OZtwo]

We haven't made any changes to the actual loot system in this VU. What we have started doing is re-designing the loot lists so that each mob should drop less generic TT-food and more interesting stuff. This process is in no way finished and will continue in the upcoming VU:s as well.

I can confirm that no changes have been made to the loot system, intended or otherwise, in the latest VU.

I also have some information regarding the 0.0 ammo loots that you've been receiving. That ammo does in fact come from an additional loot-list layer that was added on top of the regular loots to fill up the last few pecs that sometimes remain to be added after higher value items have been added to the loot.

A lot are debating about this and I have to say what you said is probably very true. So the question is, if it wasn't this VU when was it then? For the last few months the loot on calypso just hasn't seemed right. More since you are very much pointing out that it has been changed in 'THIS' VU then again I ask which one was it changed in?

 

[remontoire]

Add to that that there will be more types of guns availlable compard to b4 & I see the reason why I only loot 1 gun in 80 globals. The other thing I was thinking is that becouse of the being new part, droprate is still low (allthough I doubt it)

While your % calculation is correct, how many ppl will compare all guns vs sorting auction on mu%?
Maybe an extra tab for weapons on auction showing actual dpp at buying % would help

Don't you think some of this might be due to shooting the overhunted Plongu? It is only sensible the guns can come out of Plongu at some maximum preset rate. If more globals than that happen, you are not going to find anything vauable. So a markup driven strategy would be to hunt something else.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[das]

Don't you think some of this might be due to shooting the overhunted Plongu? It is only sensible the guns can come out of Plongu at some maximum preset rate. If more globals than that happen, you are not going to find anything vauable. So a markup driven strategy would be to hunt something else.

Just my opinion, of course.

Doubt it as nothing has changed with loot (or so they say)
If you apply this to an event like say mulmun elite & LR53, do you think ppl like stryker stop looting guns after 5 or 10 days couse they stopped dropping as market is saturated?
did korss stop dropping at the end of cld feff event?
Don't think so

 

[aia]

Doubt it as nothing has changed with loot (or so they say)
If you apply this to an event like say mulmun elite & LR53, do you think ppl like stryker stop looting guns after 5 or 10 days couse they stopped dropping as market is saturated?

For them, there currently is the special case with the animal parts, maybe in the short run it's those who's going to be the "jackpot". The skeleton parts (with the hope of nice item in return) is the reason I hunt them. (I know there is an iron mission on them also, but for me now the missions are just like a small bonus, nothign that by itself makes me hunt something I wouldn't normally hunt.)

As for markup, if I remember right they seem to drop output amplifiers from time to time, which probably is nice, given a supply of pyrite of course.