What's the problem with re-selling?

[CyberPunk]

Selling to a reseller compared to selling on auction can actually save you pec/ped depending on the qty of the items you are selling.

If you have say 100 Snablesnot Skins with TT of 4 ped and want to sell it on auction for 5 ped (125%) then you will pay .55 ped auction fee and get back only 4.45 (111.25%) after paying the fee, the reseller may be offering you 117.5% (4.70 ped), then once the reseller gets 1000 he can list it on auction for 50 ped (125%), the reseller will then pay a fee of 1.00 ped and get back 49.00 ped (122.5%) thus making 2.00 ped (5%) profit. In this case you make an extra 25 pec off your 100 skins and the reseller makes 20 pec off your 100 skins, you both come out ahead.

So you can see some traders actually help the economy.

I used to trade full time in EU, just to get started and be able to afford gear, the above scenario was the basis of my business and I felt it was completely fair to all parties involved.

 

[Matho]

90% of readers don't know my way and won't get your "sarcasm". See what section the thread is posted on. n00bs Corner. I think it should tell you something. Think on who to you post your message and think about goals before posting. If that will be help or harm.
(PM sent)

Dear newcomers,
Auktuma isnt buying small amount of stuff from resellers. Instead of it, he is one of best crafters in this game, if not best one.
I just used his name just to show how sweats comments looks absurd.
lol

Srry once again

To sweat - try to quote right person in future .)

edit: lol to be honest not only to augis, after 2 time said sorry, after xy pm to explain it, after I listened to his recommendenation about deleting that post and I deleted it, lol, and after this apologize too i was at end -repped by him.
So you cant support my methods, but i cant support any punch in the back
gl

 

[Auktuma]

The one true reseller is Mindark.

Reseller? I just wonder what they do resell? To my head they are simply sellers. They sell their own products. Produce and sell. Like any other compaign in real life. Sell to us ability to express ourselves.

They control the economy.

Yeah, according to demand and their abilities to supply. Taking into account prevention steps to reduce various negative impact (our addicts, greed, monopolies, cartels etc.), trying to take into account interest of many layers of community. I don't see anything bad on they have control - they have full set of information on how we act, how we communicate, what impact we do to others. It maybe not goes perfect on their control (subjective opinion ) but my vote is for letting them to control than some reseller/exploiter will "own" us.
We could imagine that MA are selling ""Volvo" cars" to people over the world and it sounds normal to me that they are searching for fans for their products ignoring people who are more for Ferrari, Audi, Pontiac or any different. Their wish is to win higher market and they listen to demand but they would like their freedom and to follow their plans.

In many ways, shops, booths, and shopkeeper owners have a major problem in that they are competing with the auction.

What are goals for both, sellers in game and MA? Will I be wrong saying that MA cares about making media more attractive, to invest part of their profits. Will I be wrong saying that part of auction fee you pay will come back to us. In various forms to attract us to stay longer, to enjoy our life. I dont talk here about quality, I talk about direction and attempts. What you could say about traders? Where their profits go?

It might be interesting if one of the new planet owners decided to keep auctions off of their planet...

Yeah I could imagine hunters and miners before their activity browsing hundreds of web sites/directories, visiting thousands of shops, trying to single out the one particular message within the huge spam by traders on street. Sounds to me as no fun will be for them. I would like everything to be sold to TT at slightly below current markup and bought there at current markup (difference is needed to maintain markup analysis systems and to cover some risk what could happen). No problems with distribution of items, so we could have pure fun on different activities...
If I happen to rent a room for a month or even for a year while having no rights from owner to change something there (break and rebuild walls, install door to neighbour room etc.) I won't do anything to harm good relations. I will pay rental. Furthermore I wont say to owner - "I lived in this room for a month/year and now I have rights to rebuild it!"
What I mean - personaly me prefer to pay to MA expecting part of their profits will be returned in form of higher entertainment of media but not to resellers. As well as I could get it costs to MA to maintain the media (servers, upgrades, bugs, design...). Profits of resellers don't help on that much. Someone mentioned they help on turning goods, but I see no changes on that turn - just money from one pocket goes to another while no changes on goods in turn. I prefer what I prefer but I try to stay in peace with anyone's rights - If service is taken means someone needed it and more or less it is help to our community. I'm in peace with all resellers who are working in my shop - we still have problems on distributing goods within EU and help is needed. Help on distributing, help on informing people.

Dear mastermesh, I haven't had any intention to offend - the question on how to run such media (I mean EU) fair way is really much complex. I've quoted part of your post, but I know there are many who think same as you do. And there are many resellers who using their knowledge on demand/supply build their life. There is demand, there is gap to fill. They use to help and take something from us for that help. Peace with you people. I've brought just my opinion to public.

 

[davidgr1200]

I think most people dislike the idea of someone else making PED at their expense. Personally i do not see any problem with it most of the time. What I (and most others) do NOT like is people selling stuff at inflated prices to players who have just started playing and have very little idea about how the game is played. This is bad for everyone as it usually results in the player thinking that the game is far too expensive and they then stop playing.

 

[Kiriku Surgun]

I disagree
I think people will keep playing instead of stopping because of the possibilities to get rich
its just like the ATH's

 

[Freedom]

If you deliberately mislead people as to the value of an item then it is wrong. At some point we have all probably been 'conned' this way. Usually happens in the first few weeks of playing.

Also, it is wrong to purchase so much of an item as to manipulate the price for your profit, knowing full well the price will eventually drop once you have finished your little scheme.

Other than that I see no problem with buying and selling for profit. It actually happens all the time in the real world. It's called the whole sale market, most small and medium sized businesses couldn't operate profitably without it. There are a lot of players in game who only regularly go on hunts or mining runs of less than 100 ped. Unless they hit a large global it is often unprofitable for them to place items on auction. Selling on the street is the only option unless they TT the stuff and who benefits then?

Even for hunters and miners that do larger runs, the convenience of selling quickly to a middle man can be beneficial (why do you think they do it).

In my mind provided you are not being deliberately deceived and the market is not being manipulated I see absolutely no issue with resellers/traders or whatever you wish to call them.

In my experience those that complain most are those that are either too stupid to do their own research to protect themselves or are annoyed because they didn't think of it themselves.

You should try buying and selling, it's hardly the most exciting occupation and certainly isn't without it's risks!!!!!

Finished now......I'm thirsty

 

[Scirry]

I used to trade full time in EU, just to get started and be able to afford gear, the above scenario was the basis of my business and I felt it was completely fair to all parties involved.

+1

When I was getting my start I sold a lot of small lots to Cyber. Always got a fair deal.

 

[Mordrell]

I don't have a problem with the guys going around and buying up all the small loots and then selling them to crafters or putting it in the auction. If they did not do this the small time hunter or miner would have to tt all his stuff or try to sell it himself.

I think they offer a valuable service granted that they don't manipulate the market or try to undercut by too much and ruin the MU on items I hate that.

Someone buying ore/enmat or hides etc. is a "trader" and is it is a ligitimate profession in my book. And I would do it myself if I had the patience for it.

BUT someone ripping off newbies and cheating people, a good example are the sweat "resellers" who buy at 0.3 make ME and sell it on auction, are bad especially when they are ruining the economy simply to make a quick buck. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do against this, except educate people about the worth of items.

Thing is the "resellers" are noobs who deposited a small amount, try to make some peds with extreme trading tactics and give up after awhile once they see how small amount of peds they are making actually. The "traders" are all well known and trusted people who have specific rates and return customers, I have a couple of traders that I contact whenever I have a large amount of stacked items and a need for peds.

 

[ReidStarr]

People shouldn't complain about reselling. All the resellers do is fill the need for a middle man between miners/hunters and crafters. It just people complain when they see their stuff seel for more ped than what you gave to them.

 

[lilac]

Actually resellers are good for an economy. They help to stabilize prices. They buy when the price is going down, and help prevent the price from falling too much, and they sell when the price is higher, which help prevent the price from spiking as much. They act as levelers.

to an extent, i have to say i agree with this... as a hunter, if I happen to loot 50 merp wool at a time when it is particularly plentiful... i know that even though it id worth 200% most of the time, at the very least, i can sell it for 150%

the only problem i have with resellers, is intentionally jacking the price up to make people percieve a higher mv and profit that way.

 

[Kiriku Surgun]

the only problem i have with resellers, is intentionally jacking the price up to make people percieve a higher mv and profit that way.

Unless you target at manipulation like buying out 500 manmph's at tt+200 so he is jacking up the price

 

[Lefty]

It might be interesting if one of the new planet owners decided to keep auctions off of their planet... Then a true economy could develop.

Alternately, what about a planet with no tt, free repair, and a flat tax on all trades?

 

[Kiriku Surgun]

I wonder why everybody thinks that the other planets are like entropia?
As far as I know it will only be a platform where companies can reach a vast community. Their intentions might not be for gaming but for education, selling irl items, providing services or any other kind of business model.
Calypso is Entropia, don't get to focussed on the idea that all 'planet partners' are here to expand Calypso.

 

[Lefty]

What you could say about traders? Where their profits go?

Well, in my case, my trading profits (when they exist) go straight into more ammo, so that I can accumulate enough of each looted item to auction it profitably without mortgaging my house. And then I use that profit to do it again, until eventually something doesn't sell at all, and I lose my accumulated profit

Oh well, at least I am getting some skills from it.

 

[Lefty]

One more comment and then I'll leave your thread alone....

I have spent some time in recent months as variously a hunter, miner, sweater, and ME refiner (aka "sweat reseller").

In my experience, in the past half year's ME market, the lion's share of the "profit" goes to the miner. Which I think is fair, considering my recent mining losses


Somebody should link a thread about sweat reselling, that would be interesting but I know we already have plenty of them.

 

[Profit]

Resellers are inevitable in any free market.
Whether you like them or not, they have a place in the economy and provide a service that others need in order to maintain liquidity


Two things though;

1. People tend to sell at MV without thought to ACTUAL value. Sure "it is worth what someone is willing to pay" is a valid point, BUT, paying 100k PED for an item makes no sense if the only way that item will benefit a buyer is the potential inflation of it's value. Hope you understand what I'm getting at here...

2. Traders who corner the market are evil and greedy, imo.