Who pays for Ubers & ATHs? Answer:

[ermik]

90% tt return means you loose 10% of all peds spent over time (not just once on deposit etc)

What that means is you deposit say 1000 peds and go on a hunt and come back with 900 peds TT value in loot
you then spend that 900 again and come back with 810 peds tt in loot
you then take the 810 on a hunt and come back with 729

If you keep repeating this you will eventually give 100% of your money to MA even if you had a 90% tt return.
Of course its not 90% on every run, its more variable then that, but for those who track they tend to see 90% on the long run when you Track just the TT you send vs the TT you loot.

If you spend more on MU to do your activities then you will loose it faster. And if you tt your loot and not sell it for MU you loose those peds to MA.

The amount you deposit and how much has been lost or gained over time has nothing to do with TT return. You can profit on bad TT return (80% TT) and you can loose big time with strong tt Return (95%) its all about how you manage your MU costs and returns.

Yes , so totally true.

Example , lets say you feel like jumping on the 10k trox mission , focusing on baby trox.

The total cost to kill 10k baby trox is around 42.000 peds , so before even thinking of doing this , assume you will loose 4200 peds in tt when you are done with the mission. This gives some perspective to what kind of bankroll you need before undertaking certain challenges.

cheers

ermik

 

[sitram]

Yes , so totally true.

Example , lets say you feel like jumping on the 10k trox mission , focusing on baby trox.

The total cost to kill 10k baby trox is around 42.000 peds , so before even thinking of doing this , assume you will loose 4200 peds in tt when you are done with the mission. This gives some perspective to what kind of bankroll you need before undertaking certain challenges.

cheers

ermik

Things are not that bad as you make them

Why would everyone hunt atrox so much if you were 100% right?

 

[Jennson]

Things are not that bad as you make them

Why would everyone hunt atrox so much if you were 100% right?

Swirlie fever ?

 

[ermik]

Things are not that bad as you make them

Why would everyone hunt atrox so much if you were 100% right?

tt loss will be around the 4200 mark im sure , however some things do have markup

and people hunt them cause they give globals and weekly 10-20k hofs.

why do people hunt Levithan?

cheers

ermik

 

[Dan59]

Things are not that bad as you make them

Why would everyone hunt atrox so much if you were 100% right?

I did iron on joung. Not for hof - i know i dont get but for stamina point.
And lost my pants on them.

 

[ermik]

I did iron on joung. Not for hof - i know i dont get but for stamina point.
And lost my pants on them.

how much did you loose on iron misson on trox?

cheers

ermik

 

[Dan59]

About 10k.
Item looted few cb low lvl, 5 wouchers, 1 electromatrix. Rest was standard crap.
Weapon used - first gen electro lvl 8.

 

[sitram]

I did iron on joung. Not for hof - i know i dont get but for stamina point.
And lost my pants on them.

pffff get some evade...

 

[ermik]

About 10k.
Item looted few cb low lvl, 5 wouchers, 1 electromatrix. Rest was standard crap.
Weapon used - first gen electro lvl 8.

what did you do with the low lvl cb´s , and the "standard crap" ?

cheers

ermik

 

[BigBertha]

I have understood that we all pay for it..
We deposit peds (?)
We hunt (or mine or craft)
We spend our peds on a special mob, and pay for our own uber..
Some day, the uber will hit you.. If you are eager to grind that mob and dont look at loots in a bad way..

Guess if you are changing mob after a bad 200ped run, then it wont happen but if you grind it for a long time and cycle about 5-20k ped you will get an uber one
Just have patience.. Stick with a favourite mob, grind it until you dream about the mob (j/k)
Guess 80-90 ped TT loots are the best one if you dont get.
Overall you must sell all loot, dont tt it and hunt mob with good MU-items..

 

[sitram]

Considering the 42k ped figure ermik mentioned with a 4.2k ped loss, I would also asume at least a 5% markup from all that loot(cb's, wools, hide, oils, esi's). That's at least 1890 ped in markup.

and skills!!!!!

 

[Dan59]

what did you do with the low lvl cb´s , and the "standard crap" ?

cheers

ermik

Some harash questions? What do you think i did?
Lol i dont need your answer.

 

[ermik]

Some harash questions? What do you think i did?
Lol i dont need your answer.

what do you mean , i was just curious weither you tt'd it of not , cause that would explain why you "lost your pants" on them, im actually trying to help...

other variables that could explain the heavvy loss is, armor choice , fap choice , aggro tactic, and overkill on killshot.

nvm...

 

[Konve]

WARNING: This is my theory based on research, but I could still be 100% wrong.

So who pays for mega-ubers and ATHs?

Short version
The answer is: Whoever looted it.

I would just like to add that it also isn't "profession dependant". But rather, if you just lost 500 PED crafting, you might get a nice hunting loot as compensation. Or at least that's my theory for years, and it's the reason MA used to tell everyone that doing multiple things might be good for you.

And I very much doubt the system is keeping track of "actual TT lost", but is rather applying some sort of index to your activities. The most obvious example would be crafting, where a a very low chanse of success will never get you that nice 95% return. Or, for hunting, a fixed average loot for a beast - where players with a good economy will get closer to that number. For activity, the system would track how many mobs you killed and calculate how many average loots you are down, for an average player. ie a player killing x mobs with a bad eco gun would get the same average "even-it-out loot" as one with a good eco gun = good eco wins.

Pretty some someone (Jimmy B) tried to test if loot TT goes up with more investment to kill the mob, but I'm convinced no test would be able to prove it either way. For all we know loot VS investment isn't a linear function.

If this theory is correct, then any noob that gets an ATH of several K ped should immediately cash out and never come back cos they due for abysmal returns for the foreseeable future.

Yes. Or at least cash out, erase his account and make a new one.

The best thing about this theory is that it kinda guarantees that people can't fool the system (read it as legion is full of BS). Ok, noob hofs happen, but than again how many of them actually withdraw? I am fairly certain that it is very close to 0 (if not 0). Point is that from statistics view it probably is insignificant...

Legion is far from full of BS, and he did beat the system long ago. I can't speak for him but I'd be surprised if he's trying to beat the current system (TT wise). And I am 100% sure every noob that got a nice HoF didn't continue playing.

I think some people took the return % word-for-word...

There are always stories about "hey, i depo'ed xx thousand of US$ and got nothing to show for it", but a simple "'Deposits vs. PEDs-on-Card" is bullshit.

• A lot of deposited money goes into gear (that may have lost a lot of markup over time)
• Chipping skills in is 100% loss (at least in the TT only calculation)
• Cash spent on clothes, vehicles, customization (paint & texture) is gone
• Crafting OreAmp-101s or similar stuff is a dead sure way to destroy cash, too... (markup from sale will never cover markup on ingredients)
• 200% markup spent on that kewl 110+ dmg (L) gun, again and again (hunting mobs that drop TT food only)
• Amped mining & expensive (L) finders... some areas simply DONT hold rare ores, mining them with high markup (L) gear is a clear loss
• many, many things more...

So, playing the "FUUUN!!!" way is nice, but do not expect that MA will compensate you for cash you have clearly lost to OTHER PLAYERS, and not to the loot system, because the loot system counts TT only.

must spread rep before reping you again!

This is for sure one of the most important posts in EUs history!

I would rather call it the most obvious, but ok. I think this, and the quote below, account for many of the "very bad return" stories.

90% tt return means you loose 10% of all peds spent over time (not just once on deposit etc)

What that means is you deposit say 1000 peds and go on a hunt and come back with 900 peds TT value in loot
you then spend that 900 again and come back with 810 peds tt in loot
you then take the 810 on a hunt and come back with 729

If you keep repeating this you will eventually give 100% of your money to MA even if you had a 90% tt return.
Of course its not 90% on every run, its more variable then that, but for those who track they tend to see 90% on the long run when you Track just the TT you send vs the TT you loot.

If you spend more on MU to do your activities then you will loose it faster. And if you tt your loot and not sell it for MU you loose those peds to MA.

The amount you deposit and how much has been lost or gained over time has nothing to do with TT return. You can profit on bad TT return (80% TT) and you can loose big time with strong tt Return (95%) its all about how you manage your MU costs and returns.

 

[ermik]

Considering the 42k ped figure ermik mentioned with a 4.2k ped loss, I would also asume at least a 5% markup from all that loot(cb's, wools, hide, oils, esi's). That's at least 1890 ped in markup.

and skills!!!!!

Well i have some theories on the mission subject and how MA designed it , and when you look at raw data and summarize all components , a pretty fun result comes to light

i mean , lets say 90% tt , 4200 ped loss , lets assume mu is 2000-2500 ped , that leaves us with maybe 1700 ped thats a loss , but wait , hmm 60 ped tt ( or somewhere around that figure ) in reward in terms of skills , hmm mu on evade 3k% , - esi , hmm ....

you get the point cause you can do the math, not sure all does though

what im trying to say ,

IF tt return = 90% then
ironmissionIsAlmostFree = True

cheers

ermik

 

[STYRM]

wish I kept track of everything in the beginning.. Im still "skilling for free" from everything I got back then.. and no.. didnt get many expensive items.. but some.. I hunted with opalo. got many ubers and kept grinding for more..

I did not pay for those hofs.. others did. but luck always evens out.. hope it wont start even out for me anytime soon.

 

[xX Gently Xx]

what do you mean , i was just curious weither you tt'd it of not , cause that would explain why you "lost your pants" on them, im actually trying to help...

other variables that could explain the heavvy loss is, armor choice , fap choice , aggro tactic, and overkill on killshot.

nvm...

just in case - u know who dan is, right?

 

[R4tt3xx]

You cannot beat the system now, not only is it linked to ped balance, assets owned, time, market conditions and a host of other variables the only thing one can do is play smart. Mindark WILL perfect what they are trying to accomplish. The only thing that players like myself and Legion are doing, is assisting Mindark in doing it.

Everything that is done is being recorded and studied. Play smart and you will profit over time. Act like a gambler and fail like one.

 

[3-J]

i agree with this completely, whenever i go out mining and find a claim with less than 120% mu it is technically a loss for me (while amp'd with 103-104s). If i'm unamped anything found under 110% is a loss due to MA taking 10%(when other L mu% expenditures are included) now if you are using L finders... and enhancers... bump that 120% needed to profit up a few notches.

same thing applies for hunting, which is a hell of a lot harder to profit with since most loot is oils at 105% or less, which is a constant 5% loss including ma's 10% take, not to mention the mu loss of your guns and L armors. this is why hunters constantly lose everything.

if your final expenditures averaged cost you 120%, and your average loot returned is 105%, -10% tt MA take, you are constantly getting 75% returns. keep putting in 75% and eventually you'll have 0. of course everyone is stuck at less than 90% tt returns until they hit a 'big-one' which bumps them back up closer to where they're supposed to be... but if they are always losing that 25%, after the 'big-one' they will still be far below expected.

as far as noobs getting big hits, there is obviously a 'noob-algorithm' in place that gives these out time to time, perhaps for publicity. i bet if they continued playing they would lose what they just found a lot more quickly than normal... for example since they just got 10000% return on their first run they would get 40-60% for quite a while thereafter until it was brought back down to the 90% level, tt wise. i believe this 'noob-algorithm' has something to do with the fact that most noobs start to play, then quit, leaving all their stuff(tho not a lot) behind. this is given out then as 'noob-ubers'.

i also think that time is a factor somehow, i get better claims/loots at certain times of the day... this is probably why my highest claim/loot is so low for my total, because i'm mostly playing at the same 'good times' hence doing pretty good so they don't owe me that 'big-one'. as well as the fact that people who quit then come back after months or years tend to get a nice big welcome back gift. this means that loot is distributed back to you in increments which you spent in the past on an on-going basis, so for example the loot i'm getting today is what i spent 3-4 months ago returned to me.


bottom line is, MU is everything.

 

[ermik]

just in case - u know who dan is, right?

he could be Obama , id still reply in the same manner , still trying to help.

cheers

ermik

 

[wizzszz]

Legion is far from full of BS, ...

I beg to differ...

... and he did beat the system long ago.

That's why he's constantly broke, yes?

 

[Konve]

I beg to differ...



That's why he's constantly broke, yes?

Your post has nothing of value except the first line. I am fine with your opinion, but trash talking is rubbish and wont bring you anything.

Because you did it once, ages and ages ago, doesn't mean you somehow have an infinite amount of PED. If MA didn't change the system back then, however, you can be sure he would have had it. Anyway, it doesn't belong in this thread. In fact, it probably doesn't belong anywhere so drop it, please.

 

[xX Gently Xx]

he could be Obama , id still reply in the same manner , still trying to help.

cheers

ermik

lol Obama doesnt have insane agility and wasn't competing for being the most skilled player in Entropia at some point )



somehow I doubt you'll be able to teach him much about playing

no offence as your motives are good ))

 

[wizzszz]

Your post has nothing of value except the first line. I am fine with your opinion, but trash talking is rubbish and wont bring you anything.

There is no hidden "only quality posts" rule, not afaik

Because you did it once, ages and ages ago, doesn't mean you somehow have an infinite amount of PED. If MA didn't change the system back then, however, you can be sure he would have had it.

Just asking, because i think there is no "beat the system", in the sense of TT return > TT spent...
And it has always been like that (that's why MA can pay their employees, you know)

I have no idea what exactly you refer to when you say "Legion did beat the system ages ago", but my definition of "beat the system" would mean that you are somehow able to accumulate maybe not an "infinite", but a substantial amount of PED" over the years.

 

[R4tt3xx]

This system will not be beaten, learn what the rules are and bend those rules in your favour.

The most obvious rule to break is 65 / 35 or phi*100 / (1-phi)*100.

I think I will put this in here, I am too lazy to make a new thread..

We are supposed to have 100 ped when we put in our very first deposit, so that is 100*1. If I wanted to distribute them evenly it would be 10 rows of 10. Mindark takes their customary 5% for EACH transaction, so each point in our array now has 95pec in them.

In this scenario all points are even, but in reality we know that it is simply not so. Each point is weighted differently, but still has the 5% "decay". With regards to mining and other minerals / loots they all have a set value that is removed from your pool + the 5% decay. There are now fractions of your personal loot left that are evenly scattered and weighted.

The hofs / all time highs are marketing plots and quick injections of a particular resource type into the games economy.

The array can be generated like so....

Each ped has a specific number, 1st ped dropped is 1, 2nd is 2 etc. These are known as "seeds" and are arranged in my construct in a circle. The math is simple

x=Middle Coord X+cos(2*pi()*0.618034*seed)*sqrt(seed)*50
y=Middle Coord Y+sin(2*pi()*0.618034*seed)*sqrt(seed)*50

The middle coord would be the centre of a grid the size of sqrt(max seeds)*50*2

This gives us a 100% even circular field. If I have 100 seeds, this covers 1km. Sqrt(100)*50*2. This also trumps a hex, as a hex needs to have +6x seeds in each turn.

turn 1 6 seeds 6 total
turn 2 12 seeds 18 total
turn 3 18 seeds 36 total
turn 4 24 seeds 60 total

 

[sitram]

lol Obama doesnt have insane agility and wasn't competing for being the most skilled player in Entropia at some point )



somehow I doubt you'll be able to teach him much about playing

no offence as your motives are good ))

Just because he has a shitload of skills and attributes acquired back when it was easier to gain skills that doesn't mean he knows everything about EU.

EU from 6 years and the one from today are totally different games even if we have more or less the same mobs and items. There were quite a few old time players that failed to adapt to changes and left. Lately even I start to reconsider everything I learned about EU since about 2 years ago

 

[xX Gently Xx]

Just because he has a shitload of skills and attributes acquired back when it was easier to gain skills that doesn't mean he knows everything about EU.

EU from 6 years and the one from today are totally different games even if we have more or less the same mobs and items. There were quite a few old time players that failed to adapt to changes and left. Lately even I start to reconsider everything I learned about EU since about 2 years ago

I understood, good point

 

[Joat]

Why do so many mix up the "100% understanding of system" with "constant profit"?
To "fully understand the system" has not much to do with profit, it's about reducing
losses, tt-wise.
If you then manage to have profit, it's due to a lot has a sh*****d of losses,
tt-wise, and that you manage to loot stuff with mu.
TT value and tt+mu value are two different things, often mixed up in discusions.

Another myth I don't like are the "it was sooo easy to get skills back in old days"...
it wasn't.

 

[fluske]

Why do so many mix up the "100% understanding of system" with "constant profit"?
To "fully understand the system" has not much to do with profit, it's about reducing
losses, tt-wise.
If you then manage to have profit, it's due to a lot has a sh*****d of losses,
tt-wise, and that you manage to loot stuff with mu.
TT value and tt+mu value are two different things, often mixed up in discusions.

Another myth I don't like are the "it was sooo easy to get skills back in old days"...
it wasn't.

yep,especially the slowdown at the 3k barrierre i remember,attributes skilled faster though back then....
blp tech sold for 10.000% about 6-7 years ago,i once looted shadowgloves..i had an offer for 3k ped orso or 30 ped tt blptech

skills didnt go up fast at all

 

[Alina]

i try to lose as much as i can, last worse tt lose was like 100k then it started to be good