Why does MA still have no rivals?

[SpikeBlack]

1) This game is ment for people at all levels
2) Skills do matter
3) Pay for your level of entertainment. (Big one here)

Reading EF you'll find people who would disagree with those three points.

1. Then why are all the new mobs at the top end with high regen and why are all the good items in only the top end mobs (see 3)?

2. Do they? They've been devalued more and more especially with the sib L now anyone can have a maxed out weapon or tool.

3. People pay but are increasingly disillusioned about getting less and less for their buck. Going eco grinding is ok for a while but eventually it will drive you away.

 

[Outman]

Currently the issue is that there is a lot less money to be made from a mmo with a RCE, then what a normal mmo is making. EU isn't doing bad, but a lot of other games out there are making a lot more, plus with a RCE you can run into a lot of legal issues.

Also just an interesting fact most of the big name mmos made today cost around 10 million dollars to make when all is said and done, although it has been done for under 100k.

 

[Legion]

Currently the issue is that there is a lot less money to be made from a mmo with a RCE, then what a normal mmo is making. EU isn't doing bad, but a lot of other games out there are making a lot more, plus with a RCE you can run into a lot of legal issues.

Also just an interesting fact most of the big name mmos made today cost around 10 million dollars to make when all is said and done, although it has been done for under 100k.

That EU isnt making more money is solely due to MA, it's not the rce part of the game that does that. If ma catered more to their customers and did some proper marketing etc AND had a wellbalanced game then a lot more ppl would come, spend more and stay longer. As it is now a few ppl come, they try it and most of them think it's shit so they leave. Some like it though and does a small depo, and loose that in less than a day and then they get pissed off instead and leave. A very small percentage actually does stay. But MA can fix that, IF they would like to.

 

[SpikeBlack]

That EU isnt making more money is solely due to MA, it's not the rce part of the game that does that. If ma catered more to their customers and did some proper marketing etc AND had a wellbalanced game then a lot more ppl would come, spend more and stay longer. As it is now a few ppl come, they try it and most of them think it's shit so they leave. Some like it though and does a small depo, and loose that in less than a day and then they get pissed off instead and leave. A very small percentage actually does stay. But MA can fix that, IF they would like to.

if a games company only sold 20-30,000 copies of a game that cost as much as EU has to produce they'd call it a huge flop and drop it asap and try to pretend it never happened

 

[TimUnleashed]

if a games company only sold 20-30,000 copies of a game that cost as much as EU has to produce they'd call it a huge flop and drop it asap and try to pretend it never happened

And yet EU with 20k (or whatever) people is quite successful and profitable.

Interesting that what most would regard a flop, is in this situation successful.

Imagine what this place can be if they get it right! If they fix it so that the next million people all want to stay!

 

[Miccey]

1: Theres really not much to do in this game.
2: MAKING money is not POSSIBLE.

MMO that doesnt have much to do is not fun.
RCE were you are NOT able to MAKE money isnt logical.
Cause in the end, you end up paying for it all..

Eventually ppl finds these things out.
For some verry fast, for others it might take abit longer
to realize.

3: MA is doing it all wrong.

 

[iancampbell]

Reading EF you'll find people who would disagree with those three points.

1. Then why are all the new mobs at the top end with high regen and why are all the good items in only the top end mobs (see 3)?

2. Do they? They've been devalued more and more especially with the sib L now anyone can have a maxed out weapon or tool.

3. People pay but are increasingly disillusioned about getting less and less for their buck. Going eco grinding is ok for a while but eventually it will drive you away.

Sure, everyone can have their stuff maxed. It doesn't actually matter all that much; try hunting spiders with an opalo! No matter how good you are you won't get very far.

I suppose from a pure business point of view exploiting the small number of high-spending ubers might make sense. A single-server MMORPG with a lot of people logged on at once needs very serious, and very expensive, hardware - CCP found that out.

 

[iancampbell]

you mean market system. right?

Precisely. There are an amazingly large number of things wrong with the market system in EU. The system of buy orders is very non-intuitive, for a start, and to use it you have to spend money to put up a sell order that is immediately filled. It is impossible to put up for sale, in any way, stacks of identical items (mostly ammo and looted stackables) that can be partially bought. The same applies to shops; I have never yet been in a RL retail shop that will sell you either a full case of (for example) bottles of cola or nothing at all but nothing in between.

CCP, for example, has three interlocking ways of transferring ownership. An auction very similar to EU's; personal trading exactly like EU's (buyer beware!) except that the pitiful business of taking coins off your pedcard is unnecessary; and a market system that allows partial-stack buying, and can be used anywhere in a large area. The last of these is probably the most important for most people. And it has some very nifty tools, BTW - Donchian-channel market graphs in a game???!!

Dangerous (forum rules!) but I think that whoever is responsible for the market system in EU ought to play EVE for a while. To find out how to run the economy.

Being able to export data from the game to an external file would also help greatly. FFS, this game doesn't even have a pedcard journal!

 

[Snowflake]

Who is MA?

 

[SoReal]

Most people play a game to be entertained, main market for these customers, would I imagine be the 12-30 age group.

So break that down.

Most of the younger in the group will be playing wow or something similar with a cheap monthly payment.

Then moving onto the older people in that group , they will still want entertainment . So a portion of these will play whatever they find entertaining.

Now we have a part of this older group who want the entertainment and also want to pay more for it in the belief that they will get a profitable return so they play an RCE .

Then they find out that the bottom line is unless you are prepared to invest in anything that has a small possiblilty in turning a profit your not going to get a profit , you also have to know what your doing so you have to spend some time reseaching what your doing.

IMO most people will not invest large sums of money into an RCE because this money could be invested elsewhere for the possibility of a much better return.

Bottom line .

People play a game for entertainment.
If they want to earn some bucks they are probably trading the markets. (FOREX etc)

These reasons are why I believe the RCE market is a small one .

 

[XeroX2]

the risk is very high... some kind of bug could destroy the game in seconds for everyone and then everyone would want to withdraw their cash at once...
OK OK then again we had these kind of bugs allready in EU like the item dublication bug... but it was in a very early stage so the impact wasn`t thaaat bad however the 98% of the community who didn`t use these kind of bugs still suffer from a big disadvantage.
Now guess what would happen if some new devs launched a game with one of these bugs in it... there would be loads of ppl waiting to be able to use it.

 

[Outman]

Actually when I really think about it this is more of a casino disguised as an RCE. Sure some skill is involved (like cards games, betting on sports, etc.), but in the end it all comes down to whether or not you get lucky. In a true RCE the game currency would be worth real money, but the loot price would be all markup. This would allow players to fully play the game and not worry about money, but at the same time if they want better gear and don't feel like grinding they can use cash. Although in this model the mmo creators would need to get cash by selling exclusive gear, placing ads, etc.

 

[Moonbiter]

IMO most people will not invest large sums of money into an RCE because this money could be invested elsewhere for the possibility of a much better return.

Bottom line .

People play a game for entertainment.
If they want to earn some bucks they are probably trading the markets. (FOREX etc)

These reasons are why I believe the RCE market is a small one .

For example invest where? You really think that Forex or stock trading is much safer than EU? Maybe take a look what has been going on in markets
for the past year...

Not to mention that you need much much more technical knowledge as well as capital to be a successful trader. And if you're trading with leverage, potentially one bad deal can cost you whole capital, which is simply not possible in EU.

 

[SoReal]

For example invest where? You really think that Forex or stock trading is much safer than EU? Maybe take a look what has been going on in markets
for the past year...

Not to mention that you need much much more technical knowledge as well as capital to be a successful trader. And if you're trading with leverage, potentially one bad deal can cost you whole capital, which is simply not possible in EU.

I trade for a living for the last 3 years ,monthly profit , between 6-20 % per month. But my point here is exactly what you said "technical knowledge" this is also needed in EU and even with this knowledge to me most investors would be going to the trading markets, not trying to learn how to play a computer game.

(oh and yes I do make losses trading but overall its a winner for me anyway)

 

[Moonbiter]

I trade for a living for the last 3 years ,monthly profit , between 6-20 % per month. But my point here is exactly what you said "technical knowledge" this is also needed in EU and even with this knowledge to me most investors would be going to the trading markets, not trying to learn how to play a computer game.

(oh and yes I do make losses trading but overall its a winner for me anyway)

Well yes, if someone is just looking for a pure investment opportunity financial markets are better option overall. However EU imho is also appealing, as a cross-over between game and a market backed by real money.

 

[SpikeBlack]

And yet EU with 20k (or whatever) people is quite successful and profitable.

Interesting that what most would regard a flop, is in this situation successful.

Imagine what this place can be if they get it right! If they fix it so that the next million people all want to stay!

We can only assume it is, MA has not publicly released any quarterly reports since September 2009 and that was for Q2 2009 (we're 2/3 through Q2 2010).

The only thing we know is that it's still operating and not how profitable it is, I guess we'll find out properly when they release their 2009 report.

 

[Tamn]

there are rivals, but they suck

 

[shaman]

The big comapanies are such big and rigid that cant figurate how a real cash economy works ;sony tried some mixed rce game with everquest and they failed like stupid kids ,others try rce in good way but they're too slow in developments or stuck.
Isnt so easy to build and keep a rce ,need professional ppl for that,MA maby never tell us but surely they have

 

[jiriki]

There are no rivals, because as soon as MA finds out about them they send the massive pile of support cases they get every day. That should scare off most rivals

And with developing an RCE I don't think you need to many coders or artist to start with, the biggest bulk of employees would be needed to work out and maintain the balance in the RCE. Mess up in this part and you go belly up instantly.

 

[Legion]

Mess up in this part and you go belly up instantly.

If that was the case MA would had shut down years ago xD

 

[Zib Black Onyx]

Are you serious?

Yes I am serious. I will make a balanced RCE at some point in the future.

First step is my getting my feature film produced - that is "in progress"

I believe the only good RCE could be made by people that have played EU for a long time

It's going to be a 2-3 years probably before I can start on the RCE though so be patient lol.

 

[Legion]

Yes I am serious. I will make a balanced RCE at some point in the future.

First step is my getting my feature film produced - that is "in progress"

I believe the only good RCE could be made by people that have played EU for a long time

It's going to be a 2-3 years probably before I can start on the RCE though so be patient lol.

how many million dollars do you have? xD

 

[Zib Black Onyx]

how many million dollars do you have? xD

None right now but I am on stage two of developing a feature film so once this film works out I will make a few more of the next couple of years at which point I should have enough money of my own or will be able to get the project funded at that point by some other parties.

One step at a time lol.

 

[Joat]

No revials... well, could it be due to most people see the unlogical in a
mmo-rce?

First, how to advertise it? By using facts? That will probably kill interest,
since a lot of people see that the average player can't make money.
The majority must lose.

Using hypes? As EU has done? Well, then the game is filled with a majority
that thinks it's possible to "get money for nothing", who later realise that
it was more or less impossible. 70-80% of the playerbase will be "inactive"
quite fast.

Create and show a game around entertinment, where there are possibilities
to earn some money? Maybe, but then the game has to be more or less
perfect, with features that are so fun that the losses people do, will still
be justified with "but we had a really fun experience!".

Any type of game, that is based on RCE, can't be filled with people that
are not willing to spend. That will not last in the long run.
It can't be filled with investors either, since those will not spend too much,
they want a profit instead.

If you want to be successfull, try to make a game where people have fun,
get a decent reward, make profits from other players and not from system
itself. If you have the vision to make a interesting game from where you
can make a living, and not vision to make a living by a game, you might
succeed.

 

[Miccey]

1: company creates "GAME"
2: Game is based on First person TO 3d Person
3: Game is RCE
4: The game has a cost. Lets 10$/Month, this money converts to "Credits".
5: Player is able to "Exchange" $ to Credits INGAME.

My vision:

A game based on RCE. The playground is BOTH on Planet and IN space were
the existance of xxx amount of planets is precent. Each planet has its own
character. M-Class planets like earth and other classed planets. The player
is able to get from planet to planet by ACTUAL flight in space. NO LOADING
screans. By him/herself or by other players ships. On planets you have the
ability to live, work, go to bars, attend partys, go on concerts, rob old ladys,
perform other criminal acts or play by the rules of civilisation. The ability to
RENT an apartment or BUY a house outsid the major DOME citys. Planets is
built as continents that are HUUUUGE. Containing 1 DomeCity per continent.
Inside these DC´s, LAW and ORDER is applied by AI. Outside is the "Strongest
survives" (PVP). Inside DC´s you can perform criminal acts aswell but the
possibility to get cought is VERRY HIGH. In space there is also the possibility
to PVP, BUT, the closer to System Main Planet the higher security. An
uncolonised planet = NO SEC at all.

RCE aspect:
EVERYTHING can be bought or sold. Supply and Demand.
Company/Dev´s charge TAX for each and every transaction that is made
inside DC`s. If a transaction is made OUTSIDE its considderd UNSANCTIONED.
Thus getting the players to be tagged as Criminals. If they enter ANY DC
they will be given a choice. PAY due tax or be confined in JAIL. IF YOU GET
COUGHT. Depending on the severity of the crime, the time spent in jail could vary. Severe CRIME longer time in JAIL. Jail means you get thrown in jail. IF you log out and log in again, you are still in jail.
How do yo MAKE money?
As a player you get the option to MAKE items for the game. Like ADDONS.
Cars, Underware, Planes, Tanks, Food, Jewlery, Spaceships and so on.
These must be SIGNED by Company/Devs and put in game. A small fee
for "contributers" and the use of ADDON programs is payed to Company.
Work, can be as Police, Military, DJ, Bartender, Shopowner selling stuff,
Cabdriver you name it. Official work is payed by the Company. Other work
is payed by Players the hire other players.

Well, the list goes on and on and on..But basicly, it is possible.
Only the imagination is the limit here. And i asure you, theres nothing
wrong with my imagination. And dont start saying its not possible.
If you look around at other games, ALOT of my statements above is
allready there..But not in the SAME game. And that is part of the problem.
Everyone Has to be unique, but i say. No you dont..
Take this from that game and that from another and fuze 4,5,8 games
togeter and you have your RIVAL...
A rival that will put everyone else out of buissness..

 

[Zib Black Onyx]

I struggle with the "make a living" part. Anyone who is making a living is doing so from money received from other players. Under what criteria would it be possible to make a living? Once you are skilled enough? Once you have invested in the right equipment.

My first thought is that of a pyramaid, where the new players would lose and the older skilled players would win/profit. That can't last forever.

At any rate, my vision is basically EU with everything balanced and done right with no WTF are doing episodes from the community all the time.

 

[Miccey]

I struggle with the "make a living" part. Anyone who is making a living is doing so from money received from other players. Under what criteria would it be possible to make a living? Once you are skilled enough? Once you have invested in the right equipment.

My first thought is that of a pyramaid, where the new players would lose and the older skilled players would win/profit. That can't last forever.

At any rate, my vision is basically EU with everything balanced and done right with no WTF are doing episodes from the community all the time.

So stop LIFE in the real world, its PYRAMID game.
Supply and demand.
I start an Auto shop, i buy cars from a developer, i sell them to you.
You need a car. I need the money.
You get your "credits" from were?
Your work right.
The game developer makes its living from TAX. Nothing else.
Skills...NO NO NO..Its NOT EU. Real Life Dynamics. Not a computer
model of it. Is real life flawed? Sure it is..
There wouldnt be millions and millions starving if it wasnt..

 

[Tamn]

done right with no WTF are doing episodes from the community all the time.

Take a look around at ANY game forums. No seriously. ANY! Pick a name, look it up. You will find massive amounts of whiners, bitchers, moaners, etc etc etc.

You cant please everyone.
And just like life, theirs winners and losers. It's no different in the wilds of Calypso.

 

[Pirx Danford]

My first thought is that of a pyramaid, where the new players would lose and the older skilled players would win/profit. That can't last forever.

This is an often quoted misconception.
A pyramid scheme is designed to let the people who started it profit and get away with the scammed money.
Confusing this with the fact that people who do play a game for a long time get more chances to profit/win and also will for instance loot items that become rare and precious later on is a dangerous mistake.

Its one of the most complicated balancing issues actually.
You must have goals new players can aim to achieve,
but making accomplishments of the veterans meaningless by making their achievements easier available will make the established playerbase very angry.

Anyhow I'll be very interested to see if you will be able to get it done any better

Oh and if you expect to have no whining among the players then stop right now, because you will get massive whining no matter what!

 

[Zib Black Onyx]

I do expect some whining but far less.

Anyways, time will tell