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Question: Why is AFK hunting bad? Assuming it does not interfere with another player's play.

Sequester Grundelplith said:
Just because prior to posting this I looked, and couldn't find it...could you post the relevant rules violation for me? I was hoping to have it up to look at the wording, but I can't find it.
Click to expand...
"You may not use, launch or install any third party software, device or techniques that MindArk deems, at MindArk’s sole discretion, to be possible to use for collecting information from the Entropia Universe System or servers, constituting “cheating” and/or affecting the Entropia Universe in any way"

Which roughly translates to "if you do anything that we do not like while playing entropia universe, we reserve the right to ban you"
 
Art Jennifer said:
this is not true.

they do not get higher looter levels in less time. They just spent longer sessions. It’s the same overall time and money shooting.

they can farm skills faster, yet this is at no advantage bot vs human. Time to money to return calculation is the same.

Simply put they spent the same peds as anyone else to achieve the same levels and skills. They can simply play for longer chucks of time.
Click to expand...

You are in a big mistake.
At the moment, as there is a maximum for multiplications, so there is a maximum for losses.
The difference here is that you can't take advantage because you can't play with the same productivity as a 24 hour bot.

This way they gain more skills at less cost.
And this encourages you to make big bets in a shorter time, which in 99% of cases will be a loss.

Every 24 hours bot currently plays positively through a grind, which is insolvent for normal gameplay due to the lack of normal markups in the loot.

The system itself benefits 24h bots at the moment.
 
sequester i assume you are not a troll but genuinely intersted in going deeper.
1. you said you are a trader, imagine to be a trader with 1b PED available, i run 100 bots that farm with a peashooter 500 ped/hour at 20% muscle oil and i come to you to sell my 100*24*(500*20%) or 240.000 Ped muscle oil the come Girts he runs 200 bots because has a bigger bot rig, and sell you 480.000 muscle oil .. now you got 60.000 EUR os muscle oil at 101% and the crafter absorb 100.000 ped. and tomorrow i bring you more.... third day you stop purchasing "sorry bro i am fed up". botting add to oversupply, prices go down to TT, economy dies.
2. i run 100 bots crafting cheap stuff that is used to craft. crafting is emblematic of time. can do just 1k click per hour so... it is 400 items per hour produced. have a look at basic filters or basic sheet metal tha can be sold or standard plates. if i craft with 20 alts i can supply all the crafters with small components that allow me to loot BP and recoup costs.
2. 10 bors in neverdie parking, farming gears supply wiulkl skyrocket, good or bad if you try to kill some mob easy thing they will shot first. yuo can protest but non one listens
3. events... as a bot is trained to use a better weapon and can afford cat 1 mayhem he can farm tokens and boxes and thise are moments where loot is over ammo (MU wise). an army of robots can alter balance of supply/demand

as per the question is balance fragiel? yes it is beacuse playerbase is LOW. look ppl participating at calytrade channel (most active).. it is less than 20k per day, most of the time 10k
we need 50x playerbase then all is solved. now balance is fragile.

my position on "A player plays and as he goes shower or cook or wash or watches netflix on second screen activates a F masher"... i am supporting this.
pressing F is not th fun of the game
the fun is reading drama on the forums

GL
 
Ferial said:
"You may not use, launch or install any third party software, device or techniques that MindArk deems, at MindArk’s sole discretion, to be possible to use for collecting information from the Entropia Universe System or servers, constituting “cheating” and/or affecting the Entropia Universe in any way"

Which roughly translates to "if you do anything that we do not like while playing entropia universe, we reserve the right to ban you"
Click to expand...
Thank you for the quote.

It seems to me that....according to this, as long as no software is installed, auto hunting is not against the rules. So the working bird method is allowed, and difficult to unprove.

Also, it seems its at their discretion....so if MA doesn't like it, why haven't they banned all the obvious botters?
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
I think the complaint is not that its less time or money spent in game, but less time the human is there behind the computer.

Which is, in my mind, a strange complaint, but eh....Some people like grinding their lives away.
Click to expand...

I The ONLY reason time bought up is because high level gear and high tier items have time factored into their cost. Remove time cost and people will get annoyed and lose money.

In reality time shouldn’t factor into whether a bot is right or wrong. As MA still need to set a official rule for it…

the argument needs to be made much simpler and not overshadowed by everyone’s strong opinion on the matter attempting to protect their mark up… remember TT value is what MA look at. Not MU, not MU gained in skills etc.
 
Dibbler said:
The perverbial dung will hit the fan when one of these bots hits an ath or loots a valuable weapon next to high bank rolling player who doesn't bot.

Or when more bots start appearing at Sandking or other shared loot big mobs and loots some high value piece of kit..
Click to expand...
These things have already happened.
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
Your response is valid, I just....

So by this logic, no one in RL should automate any processes either? No bitcoin mining, no factories auto producing cars/everything, and airplanes are cheating? You deserve to put the effort in to walk where you want to go, like Skydaddy intended?

I'm not mocking your response, I just fail to see the logical connection here still.
Click to expand...
I fail to see a logical connection between the IRL examples you made here and botting in EU, these are completely different topics, your question was about botting in a videogame, not bitcoin and whatever, you obviously have nothing else to say related to the topic at hand, no valid arguments.
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
It seems to me that....according to this, as long as no software is installed, auto hunting is not against the rules. So the working bird method is allowed, and difficult to unprove.

Also, it seems its at their discretion....so if MA doesn't like it, why haven't they banned all the obvious botters?
Click to expand...
You may not use, launch or install any third party software, device or techniques.

Which would include for instance mechanixal devices that physically press your F key for you, or any technique at all they don't like.

Once again, roughly translates to "I can ban you for any reason I want"

It is absolutely not limited to installation or running of third party programs. It does include it. (And yes, your logitech ghub macro would absolutely constitute third party software)

MA may not have banned anyone yet (lately), but who is to say that MA doesn't decide tomorrow that they don't like the botting anymore?

Just a heads up to everyone botting thinking that its all fine, just know that it is against the rules, and MA might decide to so something about it at some point
 
What happened to the post from the other day? Did we need another one so damn quickly?

Botting, AFK hunting. What's the difference?

Am I afk sitting at exarosaur killing them with a corrosive chip clicking f while I work on another computer?
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
It seems to me that....according to this, as long as no software is installed, auto hunting is not against the rules. So the working bird method is allowed, and difficult to unprove.

Also, it seems its at their discretion....so if MA doesn't like it, why haven't they banned all the obvious botters?
Click to expand...
Not detectable and can't scan for said software without approvals/acknowledgment. And then what? You going to ban someone's mouse or G15? It's a neverending whack a mole that will just alienating the entire player base. The particular phrase about launching 3rd party software is for interfering with the game platform (memory editing, trainers, etc.) and not for banning people who have a $100 mouse or a G15 keyboard.

They removed an important piece out of the TOS that was around automated play, which again, is hard due to repairs, etc.

Need to face the fact that with the "accessibility" features, etc. they are catering to this crowd vs. preventing it. Leveling the playing field vs. taking guesses and banning people, which will include a lot of innocent players. The list of boogeymen/targets PCF is endless, some valid - buying grinder rotations, group play during events to keep up time, and "AFK play" (which has quite a varying definition in this crowd) to name a few.

Mindark and PPs are paid for by activity and decay. It is the players who have long sessions (whether at the keyboard or not) and gamblers (explosives) that pay the bills to keep the game you love solvent. The recent volatility changes requires more to playing than going to some mob and grinding on it 24h a day.

Want to solve the problem? Make the game more interactive. Not a boring pile of crap of looting subpar loots for hours - resulting in significant disappointment. Get rid of those who do interfere with other people's play (I chose to get higher DPS to take care of that problem) and keep marching.
 
Ferial said:
You may not use, launch or install any third party software, device or techniques.

Which would include for instance mechanixal devices that physically press your F key for you, or any technique at all they don't like.

Once again, roughly translates to "I can ban you for any reason I want"

It is absolutely not limited to installation or running of third party programs. It does include it. (And yes, your logitech ghub macro would absolutely constitute third party software)

MA may not have banned anyone yet (lately), but who is to say that MA doesn't decide tomorrow that they don't like the botting anymore?

Just a heads up to everyone botting thinking that its all fine, just know that it is against the rules, and MA might decide to so something about it at some point
Click to expand...

Is that why 24h bots maintain friendly relations with MA representatives ... while I wait for these representatives to investigate bots that interfere with my gameplay for days?

The public secret about certain 24h bots compared to the threat to everyone else you are trying to intimidate is completely illogical.

Since it's not a problem for MA those 24h bots that fill up themarket with the loot to 100.01% by scrolling a million PED a month, it's clearly not a problem to be for all.

Therefore, the legalization of 24h AFK bots is the next step that MA has to take.
 
I am just trying to wrap my head around all of this...

The reason people are upset is because of (TIME/COST)... Yet there is always someone that is going to be able to play physically longer than you. What should MA do to appease the masses? Limit avatar playtime to 8 hours a day across the board so no one has the "unfair" advantage of being able to play more than someone else? (See how silly this sounds?)

Next, the argument of " It hurts the MU and game economy, whaaaa" Riddle me this, if MA decided to begin banning people for simply hunting/mining longer than others. (Which is all they could prove) then these Macro hunters/miners would dump their gear, inventories, and storage to get the hell out of the game before it happens to them. What do you think would happen to the game economy then? I am not even talking about just in-game prices which would fall through the floor, I am talking from a business perspective of MA as a company. Do you think they keep cash reserves big enough to be able to pay 5000 ENORMOUS PED value avatars cashing out within a few weeks of each other? The answer is not a chance. The company would be bankrupt, and the game would be over.

The truth here is MA needs people playing as much as possible, cycling as much ped as possible. They simply will not stop people from playing non-stop as it ultimately will decimate their returns per avatar, and most likely kill the game. It is very hard to pay for servers, graphical advancements, and employees when the revenue abruptly dries up because you lose 5000 of your highest revenue avatars overnight.

I understand people thinking they are "Playing by the rules" and could feel some type of way when someone is hunting/mining more than them. But, you need to think logically here and remember the game you are playing is a business. If something were to happen to macro's (or the players using them which let's face it, is a huge percentage of the in-game community), you all may reap what you sow when there is no longer a game to play.

My 2 pec.
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
Just because prior to posting this I looked, and couldn't find it...could you post the relevant rules violation for me? I was hoping to have it up to look at the wording, but I can't find it.
Click to expand...
As I said - Ask them via a support case and you will see.


I've done so, long ago, and got my answer. I can't be bothered going through all of their EULA/Terms etc to find this.

You can also ask a Mindark official in game about the same thing and you will have your answer.

If you want the answer, straight up, that's the easiest way to go along with it.

If you want to find it in the terms somewhere, I'd suggest you ask Mindark about that too, so they can point you in the correct direction.


I can't understand why you would want me to post the rule violation from somewhere, when you could have taken the time you took to ask me, to ask Mindark that question directly. Wouldn't that have been much more simple? :)

This whole thread would not have existed if you did. So please, ask Mindark directly and you will get your answer. This is a very useful way of getting your answers in game, when it comes to what is allowed or not allowed.
 
NightKingKiller said:
I am just trying to wrap my head around all of this...

The reason people are upset is because of (TIME/COST)... Yet there is always someone that is going to be able to play physically longer than you. What should MA do to appease the masses? Limit avatar playtime to 8 hours a day across the board so no one has the "unfair" advantage of being able to play more than someone else? (See how silly this sounds?)

Next, the argument of " It hurts the MU and game economy, whaaaa" Riddle me this, if MA decided to begin banning people for simply hunting/mining longer than others. (Which is all they could prove) then these Macro hunters/miners would dump their gear, inventories, and storage to get the hell out of the game before it happens to them. What do you think would happen to the game economy then? I am not even talking about just in-game prices which would fall through the floor, I am talking from a business perspective of MA as a company. Do you think they keep cash reserves big enough to be able to pay 5000 ENORMOUS PED value avatars cashing out within a few weeks of each other? The answer is not a chance. The company would be bankrupt, and the game would be over.

The truth here is MA needs people playing as much as possible, cycling as much ped as possible. They simply will not stop people from playing non-stop as it ultimately will decimate their returns per avatar, and most likely kill the game. It is very hard to pay for servers, graphical advancements, and employees when the revenue abruptly dries up because you lose 5000 of your highest revenue avatars overnight.

I understand people thinking they are "Playing by the rules" and could feel some type of way when someone is hunting/mining more than them. But, you need to think logically here and remember the game you are playing is a business. If something were to happen to macro's (or the players using them which let's face it, is a huge percentage of the in-game community), you all may reap what you sow when there is no longer a game to play.

My 2 pec.
Click to expand...
Playing physically longer and not playing at all and having a robot/macro do it for you are two totally different things.
 
NightKingKiller said:
I am just trying to wrap my head around all of this...

The reason people are upset is because of (TIME/COST)... Yet there is always someone that is going to be able to play physically longer than you. What should MA do to appease the masses? Limit avatar playtime to 8 hours a day across the board so no one has the "unfair" advantage of being able to play more than someone else? (See how silly this sounds?)

Next, the argument of " It hurts the MU and game economy, whaaaa" Riddle me this, if MA decided to begin banning people for simply hunting/mining longer than others. (Which is all they could prove) then these Macro hunters/miners would dump their gear, inventories, and storage to get the hell out of the game before it happens to them. What do you think would happen to the game economy then? I am not even talking about just in-game prices which would fall through the floor, I am talking from a business perspective of MA as a company. Do you think they keep cash reserves big enough to be able to pay 5000 ENORMOUS PED value avatars cashing out within a few weeks of each other? The answer is not a chance. The company would be bankrupt, and the game would be over.

The truth here is MA needs people playing as much as possible, cycling as much ped as possible. They simply will not stop people from playing non-stop as it ultimately will decimate their returns per avatar, and most likely kill the game. It is very hard to pay for servers, graphical advancements, and employees when the revenue abruptly dries up because you lose 5000 of your highest revenue avatars overnight.

I understand people thinking they are "Playing by the rules" and could feel some type of way when someone is hunting/mining more than them. But, you need to think logically here and remember the game you are playing is a business. If something were to happen to macro's (or the players using them which let's face it, is a huge percentage of the in-game community), you all may reap what you sow when there is no longer a game to play.

My 2 pec.
Click to expand...

What bankruptcies are you talking about when every activity is below 100%. In cases when someone has a 100% return, it is because another participant has covered his loss... what kind of bankruptcies are you talking about here ?!

Of course, the main problem in the economy is because when a bot floods the market with an excessive amount of goods, while the other Alternative Assistant pretends to be an even more honest trader... this affects those who play normally.

By legalizing the AFK bot 24h, you will not need $50k for a weapon that you would invest in your bankroll, and by using 60% weapon effectiveness you will need 30h instead of the current 20h activity to make a profit.

Legalizing even a new feature in the Auto-Hunt game is recommended at the moment.


Check this:

Question: - Why is AFK hunting bad? Assuming it does not interfere with another player's play.

The perverbial dung will hit the fan when one of these bots hits an ath or loots a valuable weapon next to high bank rolling player who doesn't. And this hasn't already happened?
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
atomicstorm said:
Not detectable and can't scan for said software without approvals/acknowledgment. And then what? You going to ban someone's mouse or G15? It's a neverending whack a mole that will just alienating the entire player base. The particular phrase about launching 3rd party software is for interfering with the game platform (memory editing, trainers, etc.) and not for banning people who have a $100 mouse or a G15 keyboard.

They removed an important piece out of the TOS that was around automated play, which again, is hard due to repairs, etc.

Need to face the fact that with the "accessibility" features, etc. they are catering to this crowd vs. preventing it. Leveling the playing field vs. taking guesses and banning people, which will include a lot of innocent players. The list of boogeymen/targets PCF is endless, some valid - buying grinder rotations, group play during events to keep up time, and "AFK play" (which has quite a varying definition in this crowd) to name a few.

Mindark and PPs are paid for by activity and decay. It is the players who have long sessions (whether at the keyboard or not) and gamblers (explosives) that pay the bills to keep the game you love solvent. The recent volatility changes requires more to playing than going to some mob and grinding on it 24h a day.

Want to solve the problem? Make the game more interactive. Not a boring pile of crap of looting subpar loots for hours - resulting in significant disappointment. Get rid of those who do interfere with other people's play (I chose to get higher DPS to take care of that problem) and keep marching.
Click to expand...
I second the make the game more interactive, looting shrapnel and animal oils and other shit and barely looting limited weps/armor and other stuff is boring af
 
Gopher said:
Playing physically longer and not playing at all and having a robot/macro do it for you are two totally different things.
Click to expand...
Not really when others have paid grinders for years to play 24/7 for their accounts. (Which I assume is also something that should have people burned at the stake?)

This is nothing more than a witch hunt by jealous players that do not have the bankroll to fund continuous hunting/mining.
 
NightKingKiller said:
Not really when others have paid grinders for years to play 24/7 for their accounts. (Which I assume is also something that should have people burned at the stake?)

This is nothing more than a witch hunt by jealous players that do not have the bankroll to fund continuous hunting/mining.
Click to expand...
What? Paying grinders and botting is different, one is a real human, one is not lmao.
 
Art Jennifer said:
Just get your pitchfork and join the crowd. You won't be able to have a sensible debate on this subject here.
Click to expand...
Proving to be the best comment, and one I probably should have listened to before replying to anyone.


I started this with an honest attempt to understand, but it baffles me how fast people turn toxic and upset.
However, I thank you all for your responses.
 
If I log in and find a game that is mostly run by bots hunting 24 / 7 , I would withdraw and terminate the whole crap ,
this was a social game when I started not a hunt for 100,01 mu crap loot .
I hunt some hours now and then just for fun , If someone thinks running a bot doing the hunt is good for the game ,I would recomend MA to make a button where you put 100 K ammo in and press loot once and get instant loot and save time
 
Interesting that you all are throwing buzz-words at each other. Here's something you all are missing:

The social aspect of the game, meet others :)
 
atomicstorm said:
They removed an important piece out of the TOS that was around automated play, which again, is hard due to repairs, etc.
Click to expand...
LangeTobias said:
As I said - Ask them via a support case and you will see.

I've done so, long ago, and got my answer. I can't be bothered going through all of their EULA/Terms etc to find this.

You can also ask a Mindark official in game about the same thing and you will have your answer.
Click to expand...
@LangeTobias it may have changed since you asked, as mentioned by @atomicstorm above.

This might help a little, but the first line is of course important.

index.php
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
Proving to be the best comment, and one I probably should have listened to before replying to anyone.


I started this with an honest attempt to understand, but it baffles me how fast people turn toxic and upset.
However, I thank you all for your responses.
Click to expand...

You can't expect normal debates when everyone is trying to defend their interest. Why do you think there is a lack of concreteness.

It's very simple right now. Try to find any uber who farm with 10 shoots a mob... you wond find such. This is a tragic clash in the gameplay, which creates the ARK 24h bots atmosphere.

The slower killings of a mob are safer if you are in its normal range, because your loss is proportional to the bet of the weapon compared to the HP of the mob.

This in itself is not gameplay but annoying grind.

Anyone looking for gameplay ... to shoot ... to jump ... to fight and play actively is a loser!
 
Alainax said:
@LangeTobias it may have changed since you asked, as mentioned by @atomicstorm above.

This might help a little, but the first line is of course important.

index.php
Click to expand...


I do not agree that this is plausible...

Check this:

Suggestion: - Sick of bots

1. Change in interaction. To expand the feature, if you are not in a party with someone and he shoots at a mob, even if he has made a hit, even if he is missed or evaded, then the next player just misses that mob when using the interact. If he is on a team, it will be even easier if the Leader...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
Sequester Grundelplith said:
Proving to be the best comment, and one I probably should have listened to before replying to anyone.


I started this with an honest attempt to understand, but it baffles me how fast people turn toxic and upset.
However, I thank you all for your responses.
Click to expand...
Most the toxic players hang around this forum.
Real community is in game!
 
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