WoF Issues and Complaints

[Hurrikane]

It's been a long and weird five years of doing the WoF. Lots has happened in real life to make running it a bit of a nightmare sometimes. Things get forgotten, missed, screwed and more.

I know there are various people who have been left without things they were promised by myself. Mostly, these were cleared up (I think everyone got their t-shirts eventually) but I get the distinct feeling that some of you are still unhappy with the WoF. This is not good for me or the event.

So, if anyone thinks they are due something from the WoF, here's where to tell me, and I'll do everything I can to sort things out.

ALSO:

Anyone who wants to repeat the same moans I've heard for the last 5 years, or suggest the same bunch of 'improvements' that I've had to say no to for the last 5 years, or just wants to wind me up; here's where you post.

And of course: Any ACTUAL complaints, or USEFUL suggestions (some are!) can also be posted here.

There's a good few months to find out what you all really think.... and make WoF 2012 the best one yet.

Hurrikane

 

[Jamira]

It's been a long and weird five years of doing the WoF.

Yep, it has been! I loved it from the first shot in 2007. Noadays I have no clue if friends will be able to drag me in again. I guess no. Again there is no Team Germany. I won't shoot Parlog in his knee. But I am not longer available for mixed teams.

I am ready for help with judging if necessary. No judge thread so far btw ... seems to be not so important.

Feel free to call me, if you want my help, Hurrikane.

 

[kebplay]

The only thing I didn't like from last year (other than not winning) was the optional MOB list in the semifinals.
Keep in simple and a level play field.

 

[Hurrikane]

Yep, it has been! I loved it from the first shot in 2007. Noadays I have no clue if friends will be able to drag me in again. I guess no. Again there is no Team Germany. I won't shoot Parlog in his knee. But I am not longer available for mixed teams.

I am ready for help with judging if necessary. No judge thread so far btw ... seems to be not so important.

Feel free to call me, if you want my help, Hurrikane.

Judges thread not settled on yet, but it is coming; along with the Team Threads it's very important.

Hurrikane.

 

[xaph]

The only thing I didn't like from last year (other than not winning) was the optional MOB list in the semifinals.
Keep in simple and a level play field.

I'll second that without major moans or obvious contemptuous remarks.

KISS principle
my ass

 

[Hurrikane]

I'll second that without major moans or obvious contemptuous remarks.

KISS principle
my ass

If this starts looking like the widely-held opinion I'll certainly take notice this year. Simple IS good, yes.

Hurrikane

 

[aia]

I know there are various people who have been left without things they were promised by myself. Mostly, these were cleared up (I think everyone got their t-shirts eventually) but I get the distinct feeling that some of you are still unhappy with the WoF. This is not good for me or the event.

So, if anyone thinks they are due something from the WoF, here's where to tell me, and I'll do everything I can to sort things out.

Last year it took a very long time for the prizes to get handed out, and it's still not entirely fixed (at least not from my point of view.

History for support case 191850:


2011-06-24 11:35 You wrote:

Hello.

I'm the captain of the Swedish WoF Team. This year we were lucky enough to win the World of Firepower competition, and a few of the people in the main team are asking about the prizes (jackets) that traditionally have been given as prizes.

Historically, jackets have been handed out as prize items. The judge (Hurrikane) has tried to have some contacs with FPC/SDS but as far as I know it didn't come to a conclusion.

I would appreciate if someone from MindArk who works with events would take a look at this, now when unfortunately FPC/SDS left very fast.

2011-06-25 15:44 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for contacting us. I have forwarded this report to the responsible team. I will contact you as soon as I have more information.

Thank you for your patience.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support

2011-08-09 10:41 You wrote:

Hello!

Is there any update of this?

2011-08-17 22:29 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your patience. Unfortunately, we don't have any information about this issue at the current time to be able to provide you with a more satisfying reply, but please rest assured that we have reminded the responsible department about your case and we will get back to you with more information as soon as possible.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support

2011-10-13 19:22 You wrote:

Hello! Do you have any more news?
A few of the teammates start to ask again ,)

2011-10-26 20:10 You wrote:

*bump* lol

2011-11-08 16:16 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your patience regarding this issue. I have reminded the importance of attending to this issue to responsible team, please rest assured that I will contact you as soon as I get more information.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support

2011-12-01 23:24 You wrote:

If I understand it right, the jackets should have been implemented by know in the last VU. I'd like to know if there is any prize ceremony planned/you would like to set up a time and date, or if prizes will be distributed in some other way.

2011-12-15 20:34 You wrote:

*bump*

I haven't heard any news about this, do you have any new information?

2011-12-16 17:52 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your patience. We have been informed that the delivery of the WOF 2011 prizes will be made as soon as possible, unfortunately apart from this, there is no more information we can give you in this case. Please stay tuned to the News and Release Notes sections on the website for further information.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support

2011-12-20 23:27 You wrote:

If the problem with the jackets is that there is a delay because of missing (F) model and there is just one to be made so that very one is is holding everything up, you can make mine (M) and I'll try to figure out a way to hand it over to someone else who contributed in event one way or another.

2012-01-19 20:08 You wrote:

I've gotten reports that at least some people in the team have gotten their jackets. Since I haven't gotten anythign myself, I ask you to doublecheck the team member list so everything has been sent out ok. (I can't recall having seen anything yet in a loot window - I haven't yet checked inventory list on the web site in case something has ended up in an unexpected place).

A second thing: Since the jackets were handed out all of a suddent (no VU before), I have no idea if those jackets have been specifically designed for our team, or if they are a copy of a previous team. The problem being, they are orange and there has been comments about that. Some people would have suggested more sweden-like jackets, so maybe something professional looking dark-blue+cadmium (yellow) or something like that would be appreciated.

2012-02-20 16:17 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

Thank you for your update a patience regarding this issue. We have been informed that the WoF Champion Jackets from the 2011 event were delivered on 2012-01-12.

We have informed to the team responsible of delivering the WoF prizes that your jacket was not delivered and we will contact you back as soon as the team members list of the event is checked.

Kind regards,
George | Planet Calypso Support

2012-03-07 22:09 You wrote:

I might have written the parts of my avatar name in wrong order on the list (aia ea nou instead of ea aia nou). I checked the player register and there doesn't appear to be any other with a simular name.

Here is the open thread of the signup of the team:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?202401-WoF-2011-Team-Sweden

One ackknowleded post of team members:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Team-Sweden&p=2733327&viewfull=1#post2733327

The vacant spot was later allocated to Skalman

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Team-Sweden&p=2749738&viewfull=1#post2749738
( Warants Skalman Skalmansson ).

2012-04-25 07:17 You wrote:

*bump* lol

2012-06-06 17:07 You wrote:

*bump*

2012-06-17 11:35 You wrote:

*bump*

Attach files to this support case
---
I'm not ignored by support dept, I usually get a response within a week for other issues. It's just here where I don't even get any acknowledge anymore that they have looked into it. As you see when they have answered, the "turn-around" has been up to a month on this one.

 

[Hurrikane]

Yup, for some reason the WoF stuff seems to cause hitches. Hopefully it'll be better this time around. I'm glad of any help, to be honest


Hurrikane

 

[Mack]

Is there a schedule of all stages posted somewhere, been poking around and can't find it. Thanks

 

[Hurrikane]

Is there a schedule of all stages posted somewhere, been poking around and can't find it. Thanks

Such a document does exist, will post it in the next few days when a couple of areas are finalised.


Hurrikane

 

[Jimmy B]

The problem for me is that the team that wins will always be doing expensive damage reduction using support members on main team mobs to effectively significantly increase the size of the main team. Any teams not doing this in the later stages are just turning up for the ride. And the costs involved are quite prohibitive, way beyond most people's normal hourly entertainment budget.

I know we were one of the teams that pioneered it, but eventually in any tournament the winning teams will tend towards using the optimal strategies. If those strategies detract from the original vision of the tournament the rules need to change.

 

[xaph]

expensive damage reduction using support members on main team

So what’s your point,
Mains contribute above 76% in attending the WoF Event
Urrhm

 

[Theren Strange]

So what’s your point

Jimmy didnt shy away from stating his point, so silly remark by you to be frank. And I agree with him. I wont do WOF unless I am willing to spend money, more money than usual, on playing this game. Support get nothing, but are EVERYTHING. Support is arguably more important than the main team. That said, some mains have got nothing as well.

It's a bucket of shit if you ask me, not caused by the WOF organisers who deserve medals for the amount of time and effort put into it, but MA/FPC/SEE etc who cant see beyond their noses.

expensive damage reduction using support members

 

[Hurrikane]

Jimmy didnt shy away from stating his point, so silly remark by you to be frank. And I agree with him. I wont do WOF unless I am willing to spend money, more money than usual, on playing this game. Support get nothing, but are EVERYTHING. Support is arguably more important than the main team. That said, some mains have got nothing as well.

It's a bucket of shit if you ask me, not caused by the WOF organisers who deserve medals for the amount of time and effort put into it, but MA/FPC/SEE etc who cant see beyond their noses.

This isn't addressing the whole of the issues mentioned here, but in the WoF, as in a lot of large-scale hunts or competition attempts, I believe most 'support' players are recompensed for their efforts as part of arrangements struck between them and the hunters. Fappers and other helpers are routinely used in events on a smaller scale than the WoF without anyone finding it strange. Support Teams are rewarded to a degree (SCAR Award and anything else I can get) but most are at least subsidised in their efforts as part of a bid to win an event, in this case the WoF. I submit it only seems different because of the crowds involved.

Hurrikane

 

[Jimmy B]

I submit it only seems different because of the crowds involved.

That may be so, but its still expensive, just as it is when damage-reduction techniques are used in other competitions such as Mayhem (where the prizes are big enough to offset that cost) if what people have said on this forum about how much their team Mayhem entries cost them.

But I don't want to make it all about the money, because it's not. WoF at its best is a lot of fun, and I'm willing to splash out a bit for some fun. The main problem for me is that WoF is now basically a competition in rallying the biggest number of troops. Sure, there's a bit of organising, planning and strategy but ultimately if you've got a team way bigger than the others you're going to win.

Personally I'd fix team sizes at say 4-6 main team plus one 12-man support team. Some sort of system with penalties and disqualifications for teams using outside help beyond that (hopefully wouldn't be an issue anyway). And multiple teams allowed per country, to (a) increase number of teams and (b) ensure that everyone who wants to be involved can be involved still.

 

[narfi]

I'm pretty new to this whole thing so sorry if this is a stupid question.
How is 'damage reduction' support expensive?
The way I understand it, if properly managed, damage reduction support can make an individual or team much more economical in terms of dps and dpp adjusted for defense costs etc....

Are you saying its more expensive just because of the amount of ped cycled per hour is increased the larger the team+support is?

thanks for explaining this to me,

narfi

 

[Rave]

Personally I'd fix team sizes at say 4-6 main team plus one 12-man support team. Some sort of system with penalties and disqualifications for teams using outside help beyond that (hopefully wouldn't be an issue anyway). And multiple teams allowed per country, to (a) increase number of teams and (b) ensure that everyone who wants to be involved can be involved still.

I agree whole heartedly with this, and I have always been at a loss as to why this hasn't already been put in place.

 

[Lhava]

That may be so, but its still expensive, just as it is when damage-reduction techniques are used in other competitions such as Mayhem (where the prizes are big enough to offset that cost) if what people have said on this forum about how much their team Mayhem entries cost them.

But I don't want to make it all about the money, because it's not. WoF at its best is a lot of fun, and I'm willing to splash out a bit for some fun. The main problem for me is that WoF is now basically a competition in rallying the biggest number of troops. Sure, there's a bit of organising, planning and strategy but ultimately if you've got a team way bigger than the others you're going to win.

Personally I'd fix team sizes at say 4-6 main team plus one 12-man support team. Some sort of system with penalties and disqualifications for teams using outside help beyond that (hopefully wouldn't be an issue anyway). And multiple teams allowed per country, to (a) increase number of teams and (b) ensure that everyone who wants to be involved can be involved still.

i'll take the other side of this view, and say that to limit the size and scope of WoF would ruin the very thing we love about it - going all out, building an army, organization and strategy pushed to the max! WoF may not have great prizes for the amount of ped and time that goes into it, but it is without a doubt a great training system and provides intrinsic value far beyond those tacky jackets. if you can build a winning main + awesome support team, then you also have the foundation for a Merry Mayhem winning team as well. (which pays pretty good )

and its damn fun too!

on a side note: the idea of a limited event is interesting, would be just as challenging but in a different way. more of an "elite WoF" type of thing. maybe there could be both events? expand your franchise, Hurrikane...

 

[Hurrikane]

I agree whole heartedly with this, and I have always been at a loss as to why this hasn't already been put in place.

One big reason; enforcement. The event takes place on 2 continents in several places at once.

If the limit was a Support team of 12, there would be nothing I could do to either detect or prevent teams from using further helpers. The Main team could say the people stood with them were fans, or unconnected to the WoF, the Support teams could hunt in 10 places at once with the same name; I wouldn't know the difference. Without quite outlandish resources of people and time, or major restrictions on the hunting locations and choice, there is no way to prevent teams getting as much help as they could. So I allowed it instead, and made recruitment another factor in winning (but not the ONLY one; planning, experience, firepower and even availability are also big parts of the event).

An idea I AM in favour of though is multiple teams per country. More teams make for a better tournament and places like the USA can provide enough players to make several competitive teams.

I'd welcome opinions on whether next year might involve States, Cities or even Socs, in order to widen the playing field a tad.

Hurrikane

 

[Hurrikane]

expand your franchise, Hurrikane...

Yup I'll get right on it when I get my second computer, extra brain and five pairs of hands

Hurrikane

 

[Viperstrike]

Hurrikane Mk.II with new improved super computer (extra brain, second computer)

Yup I'll get right on it when I get my second computer, extra brain and five pairs of hands

Hurrikane

Starting cloning process, upgrading Hurrikane to MK.II, installing necessary chip into prototype,
extra hands may be a problem though :

ETA till fully grown: 30 days​

 

[Hurrikane]

Starting cloning process, upgrading Hurrikane to MK.II, installing necessary chip into prototype,
extra hands may be a problem though :

ETA till fully grown: 30 days​

Already there



(Inara Halo Richards Page, 4 days old, soon to take over things for her ol' dad)

Hurrikane

 

[Joker]

Shame we have 2 of americas most prolific hunters boycotting WoF because of the 1521651 support teams...


I have 1 question...
We are going to all try to hunt on these LAs... how does the extra taxes generated get kicked back to the WoF participants... or the winnings teams... I assume these huge influx of players every weekend will gererate MASSIVE taxes... let say 1 main team 1 support... mainteam would be around 6k peds an hour min x 3 hours support 12 people x 500 each x 3 hours = 36k peds or so a team... some will be much more...

say there are 10 teams... or 20 teams...

360k peds or 720k peds over the weekend on these LAs...
x.04 (4% tax...)

28,800 peds given to LA owners... for the first week... how long is WoF...

So my question is how will the prizes be broken up?

I assume the top 3 will get prizes...

 

[Hurrikane]

Shame we have 2 of americas most prolific hunters boycotting WoF because of the 1521651 support teams...


I have 1 question...
We are going to all try to hunt on these LAs... how does the extra taxes generated get kicked back to the WoF participants... or the winnings teams... I assume these huge influx of players every weekend will gererate MASSIVE taxes... let say 1 main team 1 support... mainteam would be around 6k peds an hour min x 3 hours support 12 people x 500 each x 3 hours = 36k peds or so a team... some will be much more...

say there are 10 teams... or 20 teams...

360k peds or 720k peds over the weekend on these LAs...
x.04 (4% tax...)

28,800 peds given to LA owners... for the first week... how long is WoF...

So my question is how will the prizes be broken up?

I assume the top 3 will get prizes...

Ok, your mathematics may not be entirely accurate. The mobs that are sponsored do generate extra taxes, an agreed percentage of which does form the prize fund. This amount, in total, was 16k PEDS the first time we had sponsoring, then 10k PEDS last year due to lower attendance figures. Each time, 36 prizes were bought from the auction to present to the Support Teams who won placings in the SCAR Award. I am looking at ways to award more prizes, but more prizes need more money, which needs more players and more teams. I already have more sponsored mobs this year than ever before (in a hope to make a decent prize fund even if attendance is down).

I will add that if the mobs in question were MA-owned and not privately owned, there would be no revenue. Also, in most cases, privately-owned mobs can also be found elsewhere, so not every global is on sponsored land. One year, a sponsored spawn was completely ignored in favour of a 'wild' spawn, providing an angry sponsor and no revenue.

Hurrikane

 

[pesa]

A cpl of things:
WOF is my favorite event during the whole year, but...

this will be my forth year. In this time the swedish (my) team has gone from (in my mind at least)
ubers in main actively recruiting ppl to support
to
ppl (mostly aia now) doing all of the heavy lifting practically BEGGING skilled (+few ubers) to join main.
From what I hear the same is true in other wof teams.

Clearly WOF is less attractive to ubers than it used to be. I wish I knew why. One of the things that used to be so fun about WOF was that it gave noobs - as me - a chance to interact with and learn from - very skilled players.

I suspect a reason is that MA now has big events all year round. So the special spawns that MA used to supplu (atrox marauders and other) really were special. Last year there was no help at all from MA with spawns (?)
Also there was no iron or other missions so WOF stood out also in that respect.
Nero Pelleman Wolf

Perhaps WOF is an idea whos time has come...and gone.
I really wish I had something more constructive to say

 

[Hurrikane]

I really wish I had something more constructive to say

So do I.

For the record, we have MA providing special spawns this year, although they have recieved as many complaints as compliments over the years. Last year had none for that reason, to try it without them.


The reason for fluctuating attendance in the WoF is simple. This is the internet, and peoples' attention span is about 8 seconds on average.

Hurrikane

 

[Jimmy B]

I'm not a big fan of the bias to taxed mobs tbh. Do people really play WoF for the prizes? It never felt like it to me. Personally I'd be happy to see the sponsors and the prizes go, and have less taxed mobs.

I'm pretty new to this whole thing so sorry if this is a stupid question.
How is 'damage reduction' support expensive?
The way I understand it, if properly managed, damage reduction support can make an individual or team much more economical in terms of dps and dpp adjusted for defense costs etc....

Sorry I missed this earlier.

I haven't read your Thing story in depth but I think you were doing damage reduction there? So you probably know how it works as well as anyone else. At the time we were doing it, there was some concern that loot was affected by the approach. I don't know whether that was correct or not. I seem to remember falkao doing some analysis with fluske on it, but I forget what they found. Assuming there is no impact on loot, then the costs are markup (high dps is needed in WoF and that tends to come with a price tag) and organisational (if you can organise how to split the loot of a team of six people all doing different dps, across the 20+ unteamed players also shooting the same mobs and all doing different dps then I congratulate you. But I know from past experience that we won't manage it, and so it will be expensive - I spent 750 PED without loot in one match, and could easily go through more than that these days. I was happy to do it on that occasion, but I can't afford to do that often).

 

[aia]

Also there was no iron or other missions so WOF stood out also in that respect.

I have to admit migration is currently taking a big part of my ingame time (in desperate search for Items), and after migration focus will be reaching certain levels in the iron mission chains (500 mobs) before the deadline. As I have a daytime job and I only have a few hours ingame/evening I won't go for the 10k chains.

I'm doing my best to do both WoF as well as other igame activities but again, my time is unfortunately limited. MA has been kind enough to give us longer time to grind the iron mission chains under the "old" rules and other planets (ie Rocktropia) already had changes, so I won't ask for a yet later date. And migration is migration, an opportunity that has to be taken while it's there. I have no clear goal on migration other than waiting that something nice and useful popping up in the loot window. (I'm at about 500/1k on Eomon and 400/1k on Longtooth but my hope for those missions is that Stamina gains will remain next year. I'm realist enough to realize I won't be able to do the last 500/each in a week.)

 

[Oleg]

The reason for fluctuating attendance in the WoF is simple. This is the internet, and peoples' attention span is about 8 seconds on average.

I think the problem is more that you tend to dismiss people's opinions and suggestions with comments like this one.

 

[Hurrikane]

I think the problem is more that you tend to dismiss people's opinions and suggestions with comments like this one.

The person in question had just neg repped me elsewhere before posting here and telling me the event was doomed. Can't be nice all the time.

Hurrikane