Your Investment into this World. Reasons for making Deposits

[Lorespade]

Hello Everyone,

I am making this post becouse i think i may have finally figured out the structure of this game on a simplistic level, and wish to Share my information with the New comers to the game, and the undereducated.

From What i have Gathered from observation and Trial and Error Testing. I have come up with these ideas on thegame.

This game is far from gambling in any sense but one. Investing.
Investment is low Risk Gambling some may argue, but It is this Low Risk Investing that makes this game what it is. You may lose your PED while out mining or hunting, but does that mean you are getting nothing in return?

The answer is You are getting something Valuble while losing your PED, It is Skills. These Skills Allow you the player to become stronger allowing you to use better equipment, Or Perhaps even sell your skills to someone else, willing to buy them. Making Skills Very Valuble in itself, and cutting what seems to be Real money losses, to just a little loss in the long run.

Clothing has got to be one of the fine aspects of Asset Buying and investment. Becouse the Resale value of them, Armor Can also be a good asset also. Anything you can equip that has TT value is a Investable Asset.
positive Mark-ups also help value too. So if you ever wonder why people would shell out so much money on clothing, Well think of them as investing properly into the game and helping the economy out in the process.

*(L) limited items are mostly for Skill progression however and make poor Equipable investments, but skills have value as stated before.

Trading in this game Is The most profitable method of making money in this game, providing you are smart and adhere to the "Buy Low Sell High" rule. You are infact investing in someone's random loot and projecting a return on your investment. So if you want to make money with as little losses as possible, take this route, just trust me when i say Deposit and stick with solely Trading, until you feel you have enough gains. to take risks in other activitys.

When you make a deposit For the 1st time, Sure MindArk must take a small %. They need to be paid for providing the game to us. It gives us the oppertunity to play and invest in each others hard work. They also Get paid from the Decay of items, so everytime you goto the repair machine think of it as paying for the game. And there is no Fee for repairs other than the decay your items suffer. "Be fair Repair"

Other Things that come in the form of Fees, such as the auction house "AH" as i enjoy calling it. These Fees are for the loot pool. also buying ammo and using it up goes to the loot pool, and anything you TT to sell is loot pool items. Word of advice, Dont TT many items unless you absolutly have to. It is best to sell to a trader to get a little more PED from it. And let the Crafters Fail a Few times on those items to feed the loot pool even further.

Everything in this game is Investment based, So when you are running around without any PED at all, but you have Armor, weapons, clothing, or just a bunch of skills, that is ehere your PED went. and they are all Value.

Also Just so you know those valuble Items Can be taken to a Bank in game and used as collateral for a month long loan, to get some PED back into your pocket. you will have to pay a fee to get these items back, but its the best way of Temporary Selling, High Mark up items when you are in a pinch.


I am sure i can go on and on. but lets see what everyone has to Add onto, and or Call foul on.

 

[humbll]

I used to think skills were of value, too..

Until the day I chipped out and sold them...

An ESI costs ~900%

Most skills sell for 1000-1200%

Subtract the ESI 900% from the %price of the skills and you come out not so good.

MA will take 1$ per hour of your play minimum, so keep this in mind.

Trading is a risky business and if too many are doing it at the same time you can lose $$ doing that too..

 

[addz]

I love that the guy who has been here a month has "figured it all out" and is helping the newcommers and uneducated ... lol

 

[travolta]

I used to think skills were of value, too..

Until the day I chipped out and sold them...

An ESI costs ~900%

Most skills sell for 1000-1200%

Subtract the ESI 900% from the %price of the skills and you come out not so good.

MA will take 1$ per hour of your play, so keep this in mind.

Trading is a risky business and if too many are doing it at the same time you can lose $$ doing that too..

yeah it's all a ilusion MA gives us..

 

[Lorespade]

I used to think skills were of value, too..

Until the day I chipped out and sold them...

An ESI costs ~900%

Most skills sell for 1000-1200%

Subtract the ESI 900% from the %price of the skills and you come out not so good.

MA will take 1$ per hour of your play minimum, so keep this in mind.

Trading is a risky business and if too many are doing it at the same time you can lose $$ doing that too..

You also need to take into account the Needs of the market also, More players there are depositing, bigger the loot pool, and sometimes better mark-ups on items due to demand. Losing money is in part due to the fact that there isnt a big pool of money to take from, thus the more you entice new players into the game the better the economy for everyone and the Less money MA has to take from each of us, becouse there will be more people to take from so they can take a smaller amount from each of us.

Need an example?

10 people deposit $100. thats $1000,
100 people deposit $100. thats $10000,
would you like an economy based from 9 other peopls money or 99 peoples money.

And there is safe ways to trade. i am sorry you feel as though someone is after your money every step of the way. MA may take from you an average of about $1 an hour, but are you making sure you are doing all you can to prevent this. Are you taking Huge risks? if you are then expect to lose some money, If your not, you are a good investor into the game.

Keep in mind Risk, the less risk you take the better your experience in game can be, But if you take big Risks sometimes you are rewarded for it. If you are new to the game try your best to take as little risk as possible. It is possible to play from $10 for a month, or longer. Its just how much risk you take. Hunting has risk, a medium risk, Mining has High Risk, Crafting has risks, too. Yes Tradeing has risks, but that is all dependant on how skillful you are with dealing with other players.

All investments have risk. If you are Smart you can manage your risks, A Begger has risks too, he risks his reputation. and might not get any gains from it.

So be careful, and know what you are getting into when making your in game investments. Buying clothing at high mark-ups might not be the best idea to building a good amount of assets in game. So use your noggin and you will make it out just fine.

 

[Zane]

I love that the guy who has been here a month has "figured it all out" and is helping the newcommers and uneducated ... lol

I love the guy who makes no intellectual addition to this thread. loljk

Seriously though, Lores is right. MA -is- a company and they are trying to make a profit, but there are ways that we can prevent our hard earned PED from going down the drain. Choose an eco-friendly weapon. If you're fighting lower level mobs, take your armour off (you regain health over time, but not armour condition). I tend to shy away from (L) weapons because I feel they are a waste of my time. I need ONE good weapon that I will be able to use for a long time (like a Jester). It's true, I did get a free CB5 in an AHR contest, and it's a fun gun to use, and it's (L). But the thing is, I didn't pay for it.

If you are smart and you treat PED like real life currency (which it basically is), then you should be fine. Be thrifty at all possible times. Find your niche in the EU society, whatever it may be. God knows I'm still trying to find mine

 

[ReadBird]

I used to think skills were of value, too..

Until the day I chipped out and sold them...

An ESI costs ~900%

Most skills sell for 1000-1200%

Subtract the ESI 900% from the %price of the skills and you come out not so good.

MA will take 1$ per hour of your play minimum, so keep this in mind.

Trading is a risky business and if too many are doing it at the same time you can lose $$ doing that too..

Sooo. Is it good math to use the MU of ESi's and subtract from the % of skills? Ain't that a bit like apple and oranges?

Anyway to the OP:

Nice to see you post and have your own opinions. As Zane said, treat your deposit money as real money since it is..

I think what you said are directed to new players and really should be in the noob section on the forum, but you have some good points. But I wonder; Where have you gotten the info that fees from auction goes back to the lootpool? If you can provide a link I would appreciate it. (It could be that I am to drunk to understand what you meant)

Anyway.. Good post, but only scratches the surface.

 

[Brooklyn]

The OP is correct
and that is from someone who has played for 1 year...



investment


not deposit


is the difference between

success


and failure


happiness


and feeling bad


nice to see a newcomer that gets it +rep for the op
​

 

[Butch C]

I love that the guy who has been here a month has "figured it all out" and is helping the newcommers and uneducated ... lol

No one likes a smartarse

He said he had finally figured out the structure on a simplistic level and was giving his thoughts, i don't see anywhere he says he has "figured it all out".

 

[Lorespade]

Sooo. Is it good math to use the MU of ESi's and subtract from the % of skills? Ain't that a bit like apple and oranges?

Anyway to the OP:

Nice to see you post and have your own opinions. As Zane said, treat your deposit money as real money since it is..

I think what you said are directed to new players and really should be in the noob section on the forum, but you have some good points. But I wonder; Where have you gotten the info that fees from auction goes back to the lootpool? If you can provide a link I would appreciate it. (It could be that I am to drunk to understand what you meant)

Anyway.. Good post, but only scratches the surface.

I to be honest all information could be wrong on Fee's and loot pool, from the AH, My information however came in a convo with a veteran player. It could be completely wrong, but also from observation i have noticed that when i TT some item and go out in the Area nearby i might pick up the same amount as the Item i just sold, Saying something about TT and local Loot pools. "In theory only"

But i was thinking of the possiblity of AH Fee's possibly going into a Global loot pool. Making TT loot regional to the revive point it is connected too. and AH fee's going into a Global Pool. So in a way Rich hunting area utilizing both a good TT pool and AH pool have more Globals more frequently.

"Just in theory" I personally would love the complete information to better understand it all. But i do know this, the more people depositing money will improve everyone's wealth via loot pool contributions, thus less losses in hunting and mining by everyone, becouse MA can take their share more evenly from everyone, rather than high volume dipositers.

So it is in everyone's best interest in the long run to luring in and teaching new players/ investors, to deposit.

And as far as non depositers, if they can get a leg up somehow and work for their ped they deserve a share of our deposits if they provide a service to us all improving our gameplay. On the otherhand weed out the Bad people and eliments such as scammers, or overly needy beggers. that just dont get it.....

Dont get me wrong a little begging to start out without an understanding of the game is acceptable, we just need to make sure we arm them not just with an opolo and ammo but knowledge too.


This is not just a thread directed to new players, this is also directed to people that are unable to explain it to the new players in the best way.

Some people think that depositing real money is a scam of some kind. Well that stament can be true if they get scammed by another player, So knowledge is power that we should arm new players with. and more deposits = more wealth to the in game economy.

 

[ArieJVW]

Need an example?

10 people deposit $100. thats $1000,
100 people deposit $100. thats $10000,
would you like an economy based from 9 other peopls money or 99 peoples money.

Lol I hate to break it on you but if 99 people or 9 people are playing MA takes the same Cut. so its not making us as players better off but MA its self.

yeah more players means better markups on items so better reselling but this is somthing us as players pay for nothing to do with loot pool or MA,

MA will keep taking and the more they can the more they will.

MA- "oh lets make new items"
MA graphic designer - "this can get costly"
MA- "I have an idea lets use the same items, but get this! we just put SGA after it"

 

[Lorespade]

Lol I hate to break it on you but if 99 people or 9 people are playing MA takes the same Cut. so its not making us as players better off but MA its self.

yeah more players means better markups on items so better reselling but this is somthing us as players pay for nothing to do with loot pool or MA,

MA will keep taking and the more they can the more they will.

MA- "oh lets make new items"
MA graphic designer - "this can get costly"
MA- "I have an idea lets use the same items, but get this! we just put SGA after it"

I think you miss the overall picture, you most likely TT all your loot.

i have seen most people saying they go out hunting and only get a 70% return. guess what. this is where those Mark-ups come in handy. 70% ends up being more break even or slightly less to around 90% return on your hunt.

You just said it "Yeah more players would improve mark-ups.......

And as far as MA's Cut, try to grasp a concept of MA not needing to be greedy becouse they have a overly sucsessful game that they can reach their hand in and take nickles and dimes, instead of stacks of cash.

More players = more nickles and dimes.

Less players = Stacks of Cash

What do you want?

 

[ArieJVW]

I think you miss the overall picture, you most likely TT all your loot.

i have seen most people saying they go out hunting and only get a 70% return. guess what. this is where those Mark-ups come in handy. 70% ends up being more break even or slightly less to around 90% return on your hunt.

You just said it "Yeah more players would improve mark-ups.......

And as far as MA's Cut, try to grasp a concept of MA not needing to be greedy becouse they have a overly sucsessful game that they can reach their hand in and take nickles and dimes, instead of stacks of cash.

More players = more nickles and dimes.

Less players = Stacks of Cash

What do you want?

So what your telling me if more people join and play. the Repairs will be cheaper?

when withdrawing it will not longer be %5?

The AH fees will drop?

Our decay will be better?

Teleport chipping will use less ME?

Well I guess we can only take your word on this.
Cause MA makes to many empty promises

 

[Shew]

I think you miss the overall picture, you most likely TT all your loot.

i have seen most people saying they go out hunting and only get a 70% return. guess what. this is where those Mark-ups come in handy. 70% ends up being more break even or slightly less to around 90% return on your hunt.

You just said it "Yeah more players would improve mark-ups.......

And as far as MA's Cut, try to grasp a concept of MA not needing to be greedy becouse they have a overly sucsessful game that they can reach their hand in and take nickles and dimes, instead of stacks of cash.

More players = more nickles and dimes.

Less players = Stacks of Cash

What do you want?

Sorry Lorspade, but from MA's own financials, they have been having -growth past few years.

Believe me, we all want more people in in order that MA would be taking from more people. But they do little to no advertising, and always have. They tend to rely on us, sounds just like hosting a forum, a fan has to do it.

During the -growth they have experienced, they have increased costs to the player base. In most circles that doesn't make sense for longevity sake.

Back about 2-3 years ago they added the statements of the cost to players in fees ($.5-$1.50 per player per hour, then last year the income model for planet partners($1.00 per player per hour).

Your presumptions of how the loot works is just like everyone elses including mine, no one except MA knows for sure.

Perhaps review what I have put together. There is a lot of information to digest.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-economy-discussion/166647-deposit-poll-results-conclusion.html

Remember, playing cheaply and eco is fine for an individual, but not good for MA. They will make their profit, and they need to in order to stay in business. It's just who will be footing the bill, someone has to.

Cheers,

 

[Lorespade]

So what your telling me if more people join and play. the Repairs will be cheaper?

when withdrawing it will not longer be %5?

The AH fees will drop?

Our decay will be better?

Teleport chipping will use less ME?

Well I guess we can only take your word on this.
Cause MA makes to many empty promises

The basic idea would point to something like.


The rewards will be greater with more players, so the various Decays would be small in comparison to the rewards you would receive.

Your repairs will be compensated by more loot, and or higher mark ups

your Decay will be compensated the same way.

The AH Fee's Are Loot pool, but the fees should be lowered in some cases. I will make another post on this subject in the near future.

You must also Keep in mind the amount of Risk you are taking for convenernce of travel and gathering. lower your risk by lowering some of your standards in gear for what you are taking on. if this means getting a new weapon that does a little less dmg, for the sake of less decay do that.

 

[ArieJVW]

The basic idea would point to something like.


The rewards will be greater with more players, so the various Decays would be small in comparison to the rewards you would receive.

Your repairs will be compensated by more loot, and or higher mark ups

your Decay will be compensated the same way.

The AH Fee's Are Loot pool, but the fees should be lowered in some cases. I will make another post on this subject in the near future.

You must also Keep in mind the amount of Risk you are taking for convenernce of travel and gathering. lower your risk by lowering some of your standards in gear for what you are taking on. if this means getting a new weapon that does a little less dmg, for the sake of less decay do that.

your telling me that if 9 people play and pay $1 there is a loot pool of $9 that everyone will not benifit as much where as if there is 99 people and the loot pool is $99..........
whats about the other 98 people....
there is still $1 per-person in the loot pool!!!!! its all the same!!!! there might be bigger ATH's for a single person but there is not more loot returned.

MA have been slowly doing better over time but the cost of playing has only gone up.

proving that the more MA can take the more they will.


and using a weaker gun can be BAD ie your killing a Trox and u use a Opalo.... the trox hp regen quicker then u can kill it.

or even another gun that u will kill it over a long time u will spend more in ammo!

the only time you lose money is when you over kill a mob.

 

[True Juan]

I dont get these kind of threads. And the reason is this:

So you find out a way to play without losing any cash. Then you go out telling everyone how to do it... Now everyone is doing what you advised... Well guess what??? You start losing, why??? Because SOMEONE will have to PAY and its NEVER-EVER going to be Mindark!!! Period.

TJ

 

[Lorespade]

I never said all that. I basicaly said if you act like a complete tool your money is going to be up for the smartest players. And if your a smart player your going to get the not so smart players money.

And it seems you guys are way to interested in the loot pool which only points out your greed. I am mearly pointing out that in some aspects of game play it acts as investments into the game.

Like when someone buys off the AH that money then goes to another player, and the item goes to the player who bought it. and that item in tern is an investment into the game.

And more money brought into the system is more buyers of products in the game, which in turn help out the sellers.

But seems some of you are so worried about loot pool and professions. And the losses that happen. Sorry you guys keep losing. But i am really not concerned with you as much. I am talking mostly about with a larger player based Economy those losses can be decresed through Higher mark ups on items becouse there is more buyers.

 

[Iron Monkey]

I have figured it all out too, you always loose. I will bet you that if I huntet for 10000ped with a101 amped maxed opallo with no use of armor or fap i would still loose even if i sweated to mob dry first and found doung, and fruit on tha way. Some of us always pay..... go figure.

 

[Lorespade]

Again you guys totally miss the purpose of this forum post. This is Economics, not Boo Hoo I lost money becouse there isnt enough money to take from the loot pool becouse i am so advanced and been playing forever.

Go buy some Land and collect money that way. if you been playing so long.

quit crying cuz your Losing money on a hunt. you dont have to hunt ya know. there is more things to make money in this game with, If your smart you can.

 

[Zane]

It basically comes down to this:

Is your intelligence quotient above 80?

Can you make intelligent purchases based on necessity and not frivolity?

If you answered yes to both of the above questions, then congratulations, you can sustain income in EU. Just be creative! Just because EVERYONE else hunts doesn't mean you have to hunt! Why would you want to be on the bandwagon anyways, you sheep?? (kidding)

But in all seriousness, it's not hard. Treat it like real money (cause it basically is) and you will find yourself being much more careful with how you spend it. Look for little tricks (like taking armour off so it doesn't decay). People just need a little bit of creativity to make it in EU. Corner a market that no one else is in... Hell, do whatever you want, just don't whine when you're broke cause you HAD to go hunting and got nothing....

Terribly sorry about that, I just get annoyed with people.

 

[Iron Monkey]

Making money.. playing the game... to difrent things. If you play the game you loose money (markup on items does not count as that is payed for by others)! If you make money you take them from other players not the game. There is no boo hooo in this just a claryfication that no one (old ubers with uber uber gear are maybe the exception) makes money of the game.....! Thats the only thing there is to figure out

 

[Igorl]

EU on most simple level can be described in 1 sentence:

* Small, fun and expencive game filled with ppl whose expectations are to great fueled by stories of immense profits *

Then there is speculation which makes it comlicated, yet its more like "Desperate housewives" smalltalk in some suburban area then like top management in Forex manipulating company.

All of that smalltalk drives ppl away from what this game should be - FUN.

I.

 

[ArieJVW]

This is true people dont complain about the loots as such but the value for money lets face it EU can get pretty boring

where are the cars?

where are the regular new interesting items? rather then same old ones with SGA put on the name.

what about a bit of a regular MA hosted events.... like every week.

lets face it they turn over enough money to fund this. but where are they spending it? RL cars? holidays? Extentions on there house's?

 

[Zane]

This is true people dont complain about the loots as such but the value for money lets face it EU can get pretty boring

where are the cars?

where are the regular new interesting items? rather then same old ones with SGA put on the name.

what about a bit of a regular MA hosted events.... like every week.

lets face it they turn over enough money to fund this. but where are they spending it? RL cars? holidays? Extentions on there house's?

Probably haha. I agree, I think that there should be more events, definitely. And if they decide that they aren't interested, we will just have to make up our own.

I would also love to get some new items, like some limited time items so competition will skyrocket. Would be good for the game economy too.

 

[addz]

I love that the guy who has been here a month has "figured it all out" and is helping the newcommers and uneducated ... lol

No one likes a smartarse

He said he had finally figured out the structure on a simplistic level and was giving his thoughts, i don't see anywhere he says he has "figured it all out".

Wrong again butch Everyone loves a smart ass ... Maybe I should run for Mayor

 

[Brooklyn]

This is true people dont complain about the loots as such but the value for money lets face it EU can get pretty boring

where are the cars?

where are the regular new interesting items? rather then same old ones with SGA put on the name.

what about a bit of a regular MA hosted events.... like every week.

lets face it they turn over enough money to fund this. but where are they spending it? RL cars? holidays? Extentions on there house's?

Damn.. they've spent their mutiple millions of dollars in providing us with the best graphics engine availible, supported by new top of the line servers, doubling their staff including a new creative director for FPC... creating an independent company devoted to specifically to tech issues and support... redesigning everything to match and work with the new graphics engine... hosting a robot invasion... 2x skilling... and oil rig events... in midst of overhauling the entire system....

Where basic services, content, bug fixing, IRL=AL testing needs to come first... and complete system changes such as taming, MF and new systems like vehicles, farming, the bank... etc.. and awsome new planets and planet concepts( just checked out Rocktopia)... will come as they should after the overhaul...

It's only boring to those who lack the imagination to entertain themselves in a wonderful new environment already filled with new challenges now avialble both day and night...

Rumor has it
Next new item to be dropped is

A deposit FREE!!!
Picture of this never to be dropped
SGA CE2 NIGHTIME "NO SWEAT" ALARM


​

Every thing is


"No Sweat"
be
​

 

[Mr Trayles]

Nearly two years without depositing. Thus, I see no reason to deposit. I make enough to continue to play while having fun.

I have deposited before I became self sufficient, but I don't think that you need to.

For some, their need for fun is defined differently and thus they deposit. Sometimes greatly. They don't look for methods to "even out". That's their choice. They want to hunt the big game that they really don't have the skill to do so economically. Again, their choice.

There is no monthly fee. You choose what you want to put in. If you have a reason to deposit, you do. If you don't, you don't.

The whole arguement of the game being too costly comes from those who deposit who think that it's a right that you should get it back in time.

And of course, those that do things economically and become self sufficient are left trying to defend that MA isn't actually out to steal from us all.

Um, did I make my point? Did I have a point?

lol

 

[Lorespade]

Nearly two years without depositing. Thus, I see no reason to deposit. I make enough to continue to play while having fun.

I have deposited before I became self sufficient, but I don't think that you need to.

For some, their need for fun is defined differently and thus they deposit. Sometimes greatly. They don't look for methods to "even out". That's their choice. They want to hunt the big game that they really don't have the skill to do so economically. Again, their choice.

There is no monthly fee. You choose what you want to put in. If you have a reason to deposit, you do. If you don't, you don't.

The whole arguement of the game being too costly comes from those who deposit who think that it's a right that you should get it back in time.

And of course, those that do things economically and become self sufficient are left trying to defend that MA isn't actually out to steal from us all.

Um, did I make my point? Did I have a point?

lol

Not a bad point