Developer-Notes--2

how-loot-works.jpg
 
And what should we call this... system? Loot pool, maybe? And when every profession has a separate loot pool as they said on the 1st notes your lovely idea turns out to be just about same as a loot pool.

To me lootpool denotes a big pile of stuff waiting to be passed out to players.

I say loot is put into loot windows as a result of loot equations. Before the equation is activated, there is no pile of loot, just a pile of cash. And the equations are monitored to make sure the loot doesn't exceed the pile of cash.

And there apparently is a pile of cash for each profession. So as you use probes, the miner pile gets bigger. When you use ammo, the hunter pile gets bigger.

If that is what you call a lootpool, then i agree with you. :)
 
Selling fallout shelter @ tp!
!

Ok, someone explain to me this:

I cycle 3200 peds a day for 7 days 6-7 hours a day only hunting the same mob, let's say Leviathan

Day 1: 0 losses
Day2: 1K losses
Day 3: 1K wins
Day 4: 0 losses
Day 5: 1500 losses
Day 6: 1400 wins
Day 7:.....

I;m talking about the good runs that come after the bad ones, they are to often, I simply cannot believe they are just luck

It's not bad to have even return, but if there are no personal loot pools how is this posibile? It's not luck, that would break the definition of luck, maybe personal loot pools don;t exist at larger scales, like all my losses in EU, but they exist at smaller scale

Let's continue this shit.

If there is no personal lootpool, why I started to lose, lose and lose after my azz ATH + narc tower?

I didn't changed my way of mining, my "efficiency" was the same.

I made a little post on luck years ago. It's linked in my signature. Free link for the lazy.

Sine wave (ish) luck cycle is one possible reason.

Mmm yeah basically that's what it says.


Don't be sad, because this thread clearly displays that zealots of one religion won't stop believing even after getting a kick in the butt from a God of another religion, so the lootpool will continue to flourish :cool:

You're on a role lately!
!

Bravo, MA, bravo. This is the way to keep players: tell them enough about the "game" that they can choose their own destiny.
 
Ok here is a loot theory from me (though nothing new, should be obvious idea knowing the best idea of implementation is a pyramide allowing ubers to profit, noobs to be lucky and average Joe to pay). Let's say that
  1. Dmg/pec does not matter now, this was changed(???) due to introducing (L) items no-one would really use them if their return's were not even remotely comparable with say imk2
  2. Players get more tt loot in a profession based on how much their highest prof-standing in that profession is over the highest average profstanding in that profession.
  3. Meaning if the majority of the active hunters are @ 105, hunter @140 will get more tt return than hunter @ 120. The ones @105 will get 90% or so tt, this applying to also those that are maxed with their SIB guns.
  4. Possibility for a beginner or a long time absent person to get a HOF is higher due to the fact giving a hof makes them to think it will happen again ergo spend the looted peds and depo more.
  5. As some avatars are "working", lets implement a cap @ 8 hours a day per profession so that after it, tt return goes down - but not lower than 90% provided they are maxed (this is not really needed but I feel the effects of it)
Imho this has some nice effects to it, and it fits quite well
  • The highest lvl people can profit, and since most of them are around from when the dmg/pec still worked, nothing changed for them (some of them assume dmg/pec still works so they evangelize it, others don't want the price to drop so they lie that dmg/pec still works)
  • The highest lvl people play with UL nonsibs so people think they profit due to the magical properties of those, price does not go down that quickly
  • People still lose even with fairly high profstanding, as they don't play smart and play too much (yea myself is a match here)
P.S.
Yea I know people will notice this conveniently fits my goals as it will make me profit if I get over some magical profstanding level. What can I say, hope dies last and I really like my theory.
 
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There can´t be a loot pool, only lootius
,:bowdown: to mighty lootius
 
By the way, anyone else sees the irony on that there's not personal loot pool, but you get better return if you play efficiently (whatever that means... non-eco or eco, they forgot to mention)

There is no irony in that. Higher efficency (eco) makes you cost per mob killed lower, hence returns are better.



Killing a mob for 6PED and looting 5.5PED is better than killing the same mob for 7PED and looting the same.

Since there is no personal lootpool, that extra 1PED cost will not be returned to you.
 
There is no irony in that. Higher efficency (eco) makes you cost per mob killed lower, hence returns are better.



Killing a mob for 6PED and looting 5.5PED is better than killing the same mob for 7PED and looting the same.

Since there is no personal lootpool, that extra 1PED cost will not be returned to you.

I doubt this is the case (if they haven't done changes lately), because the difference between non-eco and eco weapon isn't so huge even if you cycle a lot. And rarely you get so good base loot that you would profit without getting big loot.
 
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Any of these could be set to have certain frequencies and amplitudes and loots are generated live under consideration of these.
They've got some song playing in the office, and everytime someone loots a mob/drops a bomb/clicks on the manufacturing machine, they take a sample of the said song, does witchcract with the sample (maths 'n' such) and hands out the loot.

Of course, some days they like to listen to rock, some days something subtle, like Enya.
 
I doubt this is the case (if they haven't done changes lately), because the difference between non-eco and eco weapon isn't so huge even if you cycle a lot. And rarely you get so good base loot that you would profit without getting big loot.

You are right, using an eco weapon is not a solution.
Being eco doesn't mean using the most eco weapon but working to get the lowest cost to kill.
In some cases, it's more eco to use an uneco weapon on a mob that using an eco weapon.
 
So the PCF nerds got it right, I was convinced with a personal pool.

I’m neither a programmer nor a mathematician, what I am good at is common sense. So we got the info from MA lets look at what does matter, rather than what doesn’t.

Developer Quote: “avatar skills and efficiency on the tools used do indeed matter a great deal....”

So first key word there is “skills”.

So my view is you need to achieve a set of skill points during a hunt, or reach a cumulative point target to trigger a loot. So in other words its not the ammo spent BUT the SKILL points GAINED that trigger a global or hof. Maybe points gained during a hunt, and those earned over time have an effect on return during that particular hunt. If there’s one thing that MA do store its our skills, so this must be the holy grail to returns if used with the correct weapon.

Second word “efficiency”,

I will often hunt mobs with a weapon which I think is too low for the mob. I appear to get better results with a small LR rifle on harder mobs rather than using something heavy duty. LR32 on scips for example, maybe that is being efficient. When then is an appropriate time to pull out the mega weapons?

I am very pleased with the openness of the post from MA, but this is a double edge sword. On one hand, all the “hope” that big spenders (like myself) had of that long awaited personal ATH building, has now been destroyed. There is no owed loot pool. On the other hand MA is warning us to change play style, and most importantly the message is don’t blame MA when it all goes wrong. The worrying part is how much do MA really know their core players, because I would say most of us are here after all these years based on “hope” of that ATH. Therefore who is prepared now to hang up their boots? On a positive note, all those skills earned should eventually contribute to some decent loots, since skills would appear to have an important influence.

The interesting part is that MA where happy to send a blind man down a road full of holes for many years, and only now they appear to have a sense of conscience. So why do Mindark now care enough to enlighten us? Obviously the negativity across many forums has reached a level that is impacting on the growth of the game. If Mindark have made it too difficult to achieve a satisfactory return for money invested, then that criticism is due, and if personal changes in game moving forward is still not enough, then the negativity will remain.

So the message back to Mindark, is not everything is the players fault, you make the rules that trigger the loot.

I’ll stop here or my thoughts will drag on for hours.

Good luck out there. Good read by all posters

Rick

ps: accidently posted to Dev1 so posted again to dev2
 
Care to explain your reasoning? I for one, see it as a gambling now. Yes I had doubt about it in the past, but certain experiences turned my view, but how exactly you think it's less gambling without personal loot pool?

There is a clear emphasis on the importance of the decisions you make as a player:

We would like to state here very clearly that avatar skills and efficiency on the tools used do indeed matter a great deal, and have a very significant effect on overall returns in all Entropia Universe professions.

As a result, long-term results in Entropia Universe are directly related to the choices made by each participant, and those who approach their chosen profession in an efficient manner will find more success than those who do not.

These statements indicate that your returns are influenced by what you choose to do and what tools and items you are using for your ava's activities.
 
now where was my extra large bucket of popcorn :p
 
There is no irony in that. Higher efficency (eco) makes you cost per mob killed lower, hence returns are better.



Killing a mob for 6PED and looting 5.5PED is better than killing the same mob for 7PED and looting the same.

Since there is no personal lootpool, that extra 1PED cost will not be returned to you.

Not exactly that, necessarily. Tests by others and my own personal test have shown that more tt in means more tt looted from the mob. It's very obvious when the test is done right. My test was about a year ago, but Smilgs says it still works that way. I don't know if you'll get the same exact % return though. Notice that MA here has said that eco matters, but they don't say explicitly "damage per pec" (for weapons). They could just mean you want to be maxed with the weapon...
 
funny to see a post like this one, after all those support cases with the answer "we can´t discuss game mechanics"

I´m not sure if its right to post this information after so long time.

People have made their own religious theories about this. It may be such a chock for them that they quit :laugh:

It really feels that way
its almost the same as coming here with the right proof saying there is no such thing as God!
 
I think many are misunderstanding the "no personal loot pool" statement, and no wonder. It is a well known fact that if you have returns around 30% to 70% doing proper hunting/mining (e.g. not shooting in air or smth), they will compensated to the 88% or whatever. I have seen that happen too often and I can even prove it doing some overamp shooting or beacons. In fact, do beacons all day long, be unlucky about it. Almost a guarantee for a hof next run(s).

I agree with you here, there could be a system in place that attempts to even out your curve/wave/sine/whatever without there being such a thing as a loot pool. I say attempts because it is obvious from some ppl's returns that it does not happen all the time or perfectly.
 
As a mostly very eco player who has also done some extended dabbling on the other side of the fence, I have mixed feelings, but I am glad for the information. It serves both to confirm many of my beliefs and also refute some mistaken ones, as well as to sort out some conflicting ideas.

I had used UL un-maxed weapons enough to know for sure that it was either worse returns or wildly more volatile returns (that would be mostly bad) -enough for me to end my first round of trials. Having the first option be the actual one reaffirms the correctness of that decision.

After Tiering was introduced, I tried some more extended trips into un-eco land, and while I still had the losses, I had several of my highest loots as well - fuel for the personal loot-pool theory. Entranced by the wavelike nature of returns, I have become increasingly tempted by my own version of 'personal loot' (due in part to an over-interpretation of personal experience). With the release of this information, the argo event has now become my final 'experiment', which came, thankfully, before I strayed too far and long from my generally eco ways.

What would be nice though, would be some way for UL weapons to be maxed relative to there power, so that all the smaller UL weapons could have some reasonable purpose. Currently they are useless until an avatar reaches very high levels, at which point they are pointless. The must be some level at which they could coexist with Limited weapons where both would have value.

Once again, love the Dev Notes - keep 'em comin'!

:beerchug:
Miles
 
Let's continue this shit.

If there is no personal lootpool, why I started to lose, lose and lose after my azz ATH + narc tower?

I didn't changed my way of mining, my "efficiency" was the same.

good point, but im sure the answer doesnt mean that there is a personal loot pool. More thought is needed to be able to explain these patterns which alot of us notice (big win leads to big/longer lose streak).you arent the only one who spent alot and feel owed and some of us were still waiting for a personal loot balance so yea your lucky (not special).#

so it may track your ped card vs expenditure per session but not your returns . sometimes having alot of ped on your card could set your game into high roller mode which unlocks a certain level of loot , but you need to lose some peds before it might drop .??


PS abou personal loot ; told you so :wise:!!
 
In develper notes 3 they will tell us that Depo magic is a myth and that Lootious doesn't exist!!!!! Whats next?!?!?! No Santa Claus?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
[...]
What would be nice though, would be some way for UL weapons to be maxed relative to there power, so that all the smaller UL weapons could have some reasonable purpose. Currently they are useless until an avatar reaches very high levels, at which point they are pointless. The must be some level at which they could coexist with Limited weapons where both would have value.

Once again, love the Dev Notes - keep 'em comin'!

:beerchug:
Miles

Please stop that kind of requests. You need to adapt to the game, not game to you.

There is plenty of unlimited SIB weapons to chose from, no need to nerf anything more and upset more people.
 
Oh wow, a LOT of people just got owned.

Never believed in "personal pools" or single ended feedback stuff anyway.

Personal Lootpools - Many of the theories which suggest - inaccurately - that efficiency is unimportant will often employ the concept of a “personal lootpool”, claiming that the “system” will eventually provide a sort of compensation to avatars who have been operating in an inefficient manner. Such theories are very much misguided. There is no such thing as a “personal lootpool” for individual avatars, and there is no system in place which tracks each avatar’s returns over time, or which provides compensation to individual avatars. As a result, long-term results in Entropia Universe are directly related to the choices made by each participant, and those who approach their chosen profession in an efficient manner will find more success than those who do not. Overall this is a very positive thing and an important part of the Entropia virtual universe concept, as it allows those participants who spend the time and effort to approach their activities within Entropia Universe in a smart way to improve their chances of becoming successful, just like in the real world.


Originally Posted Here
 
Please stop that kind of requests. You need to adapt to the game, not game to you.

Actually I think it is a good idea. There are a lot of junk unusable weps out there that no-one with high skills would consider using due to their low dps, but no-one with low skills can use efficiently.

I agree you need to adapt to the game, but I don't see anything wrong with suggesting improvements to the game too.
 
I for one, see it as a gambling now. Yes I had doubt about it in the past, but certain experiences turned my view, but how exactly you think it's less gambling without personal loot pool?
It's not gambling because in a casino you can't improve your "loot" by playing at certain times, you can't make prediction by observing the slot-machines and counting cards (well, you can, but it will end pretty fast and will cost you teeth). And casino's staff don't explain to their customers that blackjack and slot-machines don't share the lootpool and you neither should expect to get from the latter the money you lost on the former, nor are "entitled" for any compensation, if those customers are dumb enough to not understand all that.

Now, if everyone follow the same hunting rules (and "eco" as discussed in this forum is only a portion),
Everyone won't follow. Even if all anti-eco apologists suddenly would believe in it, it won't change the fact that the eco way is much more boring than reckless pew-pew (providing you can afford it). Moreover, there are plenty of people who believe in eco but don't care because they want to spend their little time in game actually playing and not calculating.

And, finally, 2/3 of the players don't read the forum and the news, and 2/3 of those who read this thread didn't understand what really they've read, like - "oh, so the Earth isn't flat?? I better start stocking up water before it all flowed down from this globe".
 
Actually I think it is a good idea. There are a lot of junk unusable weps out there that no-one with high skills would consider using due to their low dps, but no-one with low skills can use efficiently.

I agree you need to adapt to the game, but I don't see anything wrong with suggesting improvements to the game too.

Yes, I also agree. Give the oldschool unlimited weapons an actual use, but make sure (L) and unl. SIB has enough of an advantage to still be more useful.
 
Yes, I also agree. Give the oldschool unlimited weapons an actual use, but make sure (L) and unl. SIB has enough of an advantage to still be more useful.

Nomatter how that is implemented it would kill the use of (L) guns and flatten out the hunting MU even more. It would soon drop below 100% lol :p
 
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