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Developer-Notes--3

bettlejus said:
Like, it's the same to kill argo young with one 250 dmg shoot and 50 dmg shoot and kil argo young with 10 shots of 30 dmg if guns have the same dmg/pec?
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It's a pure math. The exact answer is here.
 
Piotr said:
And how come i keep on loosin even with 150% mu? And Im not the only one, even some big miners (not foma miners). Explain that please
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let me guess, this is not on calypso, maybe support on that specific planet can give you a answer because i cant.
 
Magix said:
Yeah I think their post is pretty misleading about this. If you do have a maxxed gun, there's nothing you can do about misses, period. This is why I think this is aimed at people who are missing a lot aka not using a maxxed weapon, and apparently there's more of them around than anyone thought.
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The other contradiction is , we are all moving up the SIB chain , so therefore we are expected to move to a new SIB item that isnt maxed as to get the most skill gain as possible out of it , i think i am backed into a corner now where you are damed if you do and you are damned if you dont
 
Piotr said:
And how come i keep on loosin even with 150% mu? And Im not the only one, even some big miners (not foma miners). Explain that please
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Twice I did it. You just ignoring explanation. I will try again, but kinda other way:

Ask yourself - why those resources which you so actively camping have such high MU? Sounds stupid, but maybe this will help you?
 
Hmm.
1. I believe you get more misses based on the mob attacking you (statistical observation, nothing invented). So Evade or ranged gun helps.
2. There is dmg/pec, less armor&fap decay mentioned in their post.
3. There is MU used vs. MU got which should be obvious but people ignore it anyway.
there are also other ways how to improve efficiency, quite some of them well known
Magix said:
Yeah I think their post is pretty misleading about this. If you do have a maxxed gun, there's nothing you can do about misses, period. This is why I think this is aimed at people who are missing a lot aka not using a maxxed weapon, and apparently there's more of them around than anyone thought.
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Cail said:
Hasn't it been established that, not having maxed dmg has greater impact on dmg/pec than few missed shots from non-maxed HA?
So, they're saying that it's the other way around, what now?
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0 HA --> 80% hits
10 HA --> 90% hits

So minimum HA is 0.8/0.9 = 0.88 of maxed HA (12% lower) eco.



(0.25+1)/2 = .625
(0.5+1)/2 = .75

So minimum dmg is .625/.75 = 0.83 of maxed dmg (17% lower) eco.

Obviously there could be more players using 0 HA weapons than 0 Dmg weapons, such that they felt that mentioning HA was more important. Otherwise, their statement does seem a bit out of order.

Magix said:
I think returns are constant no matter what you do. You can reduce expenses though, which is what dpp/dps does.
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Returns, being defined as tt loot/tt spent, would obviously depend on the tt spent part as well as the tt loot, yes, but that's not the same as saying loot is constant, which is more likely.
 
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Kerham said:
On another note, I've just finished a whole adapted monty (L)+A104 (supposedly one of THE most eco weps around). Don't ask.
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5% more of 1% chance to loot items is hardly noticeable.

To see any improvement MA should increase that 1% :laugh:
 
is there a way to find out the level of evade a particular mob may have , as that would be helpful regarding how many missed shots , i am finding some higher level mob are less likely to be missed shooting as opposed to lesser level mob , which is kinda backwards or in the words of Entropia " Dynamic "
 
K_rupT said:
is there a way to find out the level of evade a particular mob may have , as that would be helpful regarding how many missed shots , i am finding some higher level mob are less likely to be missed shooting as opposed to lesser level mob , which is kinda backwards or in the words of Entropia " Dynamic "
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I invite you to share your data in this thread, where we have yet to see any real departure from the long-established hit rate=0.8+0.01*HA formula.
 
K_rupT said:
is there a way to find out the level of evade a particular mob may have , as that would be helpful regarding how many missed shots , i am finding some higher level mob are less likely to be missed shooting as opposed to lesser level mob , which is kinda backwards or in the words of Entropia " Dynamic "
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I'm pretty sure mobs don't have evade, unless we count "failed" as a defensive stat. :D
 
dr3w said:
Ask yourself - why those resources which you so actively camping have such high MU? Sounds stupid, but maybe this will help you?
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NOt really, but thx for trying.
I mined the exact same spots in january, turned 120k peds, had 90% return and those stuffs bck then had way lower MU and i PROFITED. Then suddenly in mid february sthing changed and couldnt make a decent run after (before and after the rebalance). I mined at ark n caly too, didnt make profit either.
 
Re: Efficiency: dmg/pec 2012 != Dmg/pec 2003?

Hmm... re: dmg/pec... about 9 years ago... if I remember correctly... all our weapons' dmg/pec was close to ~4/pec?

I checked entropedia last night.. and nearly all weapons are now 2.xx/pec.

So if this is true... essentially... our returns were halved over time?? Am not sure if public was informed along the way (as I was absent random years in between).

Can anyone check any old records to verify this memory-leak of mine?

Thanks.
 
Piotr said:
NOt really, but thx for trying.
I mined the exact same spots in january, turned 120k peds, had 90% return and those stuffs bck then had way lower MU and i PROFITED. Then suddenly in mid february sthing changed and couldnt make a decent run after (before and after the rebalance). I mined at ark n caly too, didnt make profit either.
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Maybe MA got tired of your multiple accounts?
 
Shard-Angel said:
Hmm... re: dmg/pec... about 9 years ago... if I remember correctly... all our weapons' dmg/pec was close to ~4/pec?

I checked entropedia last night.. and nearly all weapons are now 2.xx/pec.

So if this is true... essentially... our returns were halved over time?? Am not sure if public was informed along the way (as I was absent random years in between).

Can anyone check any old records to verify this memory-leak of mine?

Thanks.
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Uncheck the "effective damage" box.

That way of talking about weapon economy dates to a time when we didn't have the information and stats necessary to know the effective economy, which is what we use now.
 
Piotr said:
NOt really, but thx for trying.
I mined the exact same spots in january, turned 120k peds, had 90% return and those stuffs bck then had way lower MU and i PROFITED. Then suddenly in mid february sthing changed and couldnt make a decent run after (before and after the rebalance). I mined at ark n caly too, didnt make profit either.
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Well, camping HIGH MU ONLY is the same marginal action as camping low MU, except one thing: if you go for high MU time-wise - you will do well.

About mid feb suckotage - I am struggling too, but this is me, I had very big overkill on TT in feb (ATH+tower). And just now I going back to some flatline return.
 
These are some "awesome" devnotes. Reminds me of "clarification about clarification" when the hunting cycle length got changed way back in 2008.

"Banging your head against the wall may cause injury or death"

Probably the mining notes will be "using finders with higher search depth increases the chance of finding rarer resources". Duh.
 
ZAN ZAN said:
These are some "awesome" devnotes. Reminds me of "clarification about clarification" when the hunting cycle length got changed way back in 2008.

"Banging your head against the wall may cause injury or death"

Probably the mining notes will be "using finders with higher search depth increases the chance of finding rarer resources". Duh.
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lol :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
ZAN ZAN said:
These are some "awesome" devnotes. Reminds me of "clarification about clarification" when the hunting cycle length got changed way back in 2008.

"Banging your head against the wall may cause injury or death"

Probably the mining notes will be "using finders with higher search depth increases the chance of finding rarer resources". Duh.
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Can't rep you anymore until I spread some more rep to others but this post made me laugh! :laugh:
 
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considering thats what pretty much every everyone told newbies since i started, it isnt that exciting, but it is an interesting confirmation nontheless

figured id post on some remarks tho :)

|| Sachi || said:
I was thinking the same; you'd expect there will be less demand for the likes of an as147, mk5 etc.
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jep, pretty likely
the old stuff has some advantages tho
people who dont like to buy new stuff everytime and who used it for that reason before are still in there
as well as some range+dps parts
afterall, they say that armor and fap cost is supposed to be low
now if you belong to the commando unlocked people and have a ml35, you may actually have a decent enough eco by reducing your armor decay if you shoot it at long range until it comes into "eco" range of say apis+dante (not shooting ml35 all the time, but for a while that is)
no, i dont have a ml35, never had, nor have one for sale ;)


crazy said:
So why where these 10/10 SIB Efficient weapons not avalible before? like before 2007. i guess the system was changed and the customers never told, and probally has happened many times again
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i still think that L items had 2 main goals
first, so crafters had stuff to craft people bought
if everyone buys just one jester d1 in their lifetime, you prolly wont get that many customers as crafters (increasing player base may help too tho, anyway)
the second is imo to "even things out"
basically every opalo newbie has a very similar eco as an apis user (leave the amps aside for now)
which means, that IF there is a certain amount to payout, e.g. lootpool, now everyone has the about the same size per piece of the loot cake
naturally, if some got bigger (jester d1 at 0 HA) others likely got smaller (dunno, justifier mk2 with 5 HA?)
since before, the eco was, imo, a lot of skill based, which increased your HA (effectively reducing your need for skill at one hand, but helping the "low skill" end with better loot)
but thats just my thoughts, who knows

crazy said:
So why did your nerf the amps? and why have mobs got ridulous health regen now also
Doesnt matter all this shit, if we all become Efficient, they will just change the system to f%$k us all over again
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the regen prolly came after everyone was just using h400s on -everything-
compared to the old school stuff the h400 had a pretty good dps with better HA, so you actually -hit- to do -damage-
it pretty much removed the use for any other gun :p


Agis said:
It seems that MA are LASER friendly and not BLP.

This will kill the ADJ V1 non maxed people

This is MA saying 90% of our ..so called balanced weapons will not be efficent for you.

Its also saying fists, clubs and swords are OUT ! - MELEE IS MOSTLY OUT

Also saying the Mod Merc and IMK2 users are the winners, and if you cannot afford a 3.00+ dmg/pec gun then you are not efficient. This also says goodbye to the BL owners..essentially this information is the doom for half the weapon economy and the boom for eco laser weapons, Those people with Improved EP-21 price is about to skyrocket as it is probably one of the best affordable guns out there.
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blp i wouldnt outdo that fast, as it is about dps, not necessarily eco
but eco is, as the notes also stated, more than just plain damage per pec
its also armor and fap decay
which is where the dps comes in
i know that Grave (i think) once killed a daspletor with a man mph while being fapped with a mod fap
so it is definitely possibly to dismiss dps alltogether
but still, the armor decay and fap decay will likely be lower on high HP and/or regen mobs, so its something to calculate with

as to melee, it is out since L items arrive
if you dont have 40-50k ped to spent on some of the useful stuff repairable SIB stuff (rutic eco sucks, those others kesmeks or something are worse, only useful are the genesis ones), which i dont
you are stuck with a too low availability of decently priced L swords
and decently priced means in the 102-103% range for most, to be even roughly eco (110% for swords is like 200.400% or so for a gun i think)


although, since i am a melee user (repairable embra, normal, not adjusted :p)
i used this sword for years on merps (plus quite some finishers from tt, usually melee ones, so fairly bad eco)
i came out with a profit (a lot thanks to high merp wool markup until the mission came) but also had pretty good loot without
still, melee can work out, i think ive proved that
however, i dont recommend hunting merps as much as i did
4 years or so merps all day can make you mad :p


that said, 4 years or so merps, without anything else really (beacon here or there, occasional other mob for a day or two)
i had 6 hofs i think, or 8?
and each came pretty much after the same amount of hunting cost (i kinda defined my cost and my skill gain that time with embra tt used, since the other cost were remarkably similar on the long run, i just tracked embra tt used)
considering the hofs came pretty regulard after a certain tt of embra used (would have to find my notes again, i didnt hunt the buggers for a year now; reached my skill goal and said goodbye to merps)
it MAY point towards a personal loot pool in a way
in either case, the periodic hofs were more or less predictable, which is quite amazing on merps
may be cause not many hunted them tho, not like atrox etc.
but that kind of anylising isnt my area anyway :)

hf
 
I still wonder if there is a difference between lets say a gun that u can be maxed at lvl40 and get 10.0/10.0 or the oldskool UL weps that some of us max at REAL 10.0/10.0 ?
 
dr_udi said:
I still wonder if there is a difference between lets say a gun that u can be maxed at lvl40 and get 10.0/10.0 or the oldskool UL weps that some of us max at REAL 10.0/10.0 ?
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Yes there is a difference. Oldschool generally have lower decay and faster fire rate.

This may not be true for newer "oldschool" weapons released by new PP.
 
I wonder how many people that called me crazy are still thinking I'm crazy for wanting to have most dpp done on a mob? humm.... still think I'm crazy after these Dev Notes? :)

~Danimal
 
danimal01 said:
I wonder how many people that called me crazy are still thinking I'm crazy for wanting to have most dpp done on a mob? humm.... still think I'm crazy after these Dev Notes? :)

~Danimal
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Are you maxed on your tiered MM? You seem a relaively new player, so just wondering if you aren't, do you think it affects your returns?
 
Efficiency in hunting has several components, the most vital of which is Hit Ability
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It makes me wonder if high dmg/pec can overcome substandard hit ability. Would players want to use an imk2, mod merc, i21 etc at level 70-90 hit?
 
fluske said:
not really anything new
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Not really anything new true, if you were new to the game and reading the forum in 2006 that's what you'd have learnt from the community. But it does blow the now common and popular eco-doesn't-matter theories out of the water once and for all. Which was essential imo, new players reading the community forums were getting very conflicting and often terrible advice, hence the ever-increasing quantity of loot-whining posts.
 
|| Sachi || said:
It makes me wonder if high dmg/pec can overcome substandard hit ability. Would players want to use an imk2, mod merc, i21 etc at level 60-90 hit?
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I'm testing that now with running imk2 at lvl 62 :p I hope dmg/pec now does the job!
 
minim said:
I'm testing that now with running imk2 at lvl 62 :p I hope dmg/pec now does the job!
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It did before everyone moved to SIBs. It's a bit trickier with 2.9x eco now that the average eco is north of 2.8.
 
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