Bone samples- what should I pay?

Pretty confident about my ~1/9 figure from ordinary Camp Icarus punies (bery and caud). I've looted over 700 myself at approximately that rate... I'll give a final stat when i finish the puny mission.

Done with the puny mission now. The VU hit when i was between 0 and 600 kills on the 10k mission, and i now have looted 1200 bones exactly.

That puts the droprate on Camp Icarus type punies at (9700/1200)= 1 bone per 8 kills. This means a player doing the puny iron challenge will loot 2k bones, or 1/5 the bones needed for the bone mission.

A 10 hp puny costs around 10/2.8 = ~3.6 pecs to kill, so it costs 28.8 pecs to loot a bone. 5 pecs a bone is 17.4% subsidy on hunting (bones have essentially 0 tt so the hunter still has the full tt loot after selling). 3 pecs a bone is just over 10%. 1 pec per bone is 3.5%.

FYI.

ETA: :eyecrazy:
 
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1000 ped for a complete batch of 10k is reasonable imo for high agility players.

They will never hunt the bones themselves and 1k ped for 1 agility on high level is really a bargain. It also gives a fair ammount of ped to our new players and thats keeping new avatars here.

Price should be at least 5 pec a bone. I payed 6 and want to continue that, but someone have to buy my first batch before i can give high prices again.

This is a massive opportunitie to help our noobs out now sweating is not really an option anymore.

dont waste that by trying to steal the bones for 1 pec from noobs.
 
1000 ped for a complete batch of 10k is reasonable imo for high agility players.

What a joke :lolup: I guess the fact that you're trying to sell a batch has nothing to do with your valuation.

The benefit to an uber that 1 agility point will give can be bought for about 200ped in skills, and then can be cashed out if they ever decide to leave.

Anyone paying more than 500ped for a batch is a bigger noob than the guys looting them.
 
What a joke :lolup: I guess the fact that you're trying to sell a batch has nothing to do with your valuation.

The benefit to an uber that 1 agility point will give can be bought for about 200ped in skills, and then can be cashed out if they ever decide to leave.

Anyone paying more than 500ped for a batch is a bigger noob than the guys looting them.



You hate me?

looks like it

can be your hate is the real joke in your life.
 
No hate for you or even for what you're doing which is why I used :lolup: instead of :mad:. Just pointing out that 1 agility point is equivalent to about 200ped of skills. But it wouldn't surprise me if some uber noob thought it was worth paying 1k so they could brag about having 150 agility instead of 149.
 
Hell at 10 pec/each i'll sell mine. I'd rather have 120 PEDs now and buy up the bones cheap in a few years when i might actually consider applying the agi tokens.
 
1000 ped for a complete batch of 10k is reasonable imo for high agility players.
...
:bs:
No way, I'm gonna pay 1000 ped for 1 agility point. :loco:

I may not be a high agility player, whatever that is, but I'll never pay 100USD for 1 agility point, no matter what my agility is.

The benefit to an uber that 1 agility point will give can be bought for about 200ped in skills
...
Hmm.. You mean with your current skills?
Or how did you arrive at that number? :scratch2:
 
am new here and have been hunting these things for days now. for those of u who are lookin to buy, plz consider that .05 barely, BARELY covers the cost of going on another hunt. more often than not, ive ended up having to buy less ammo, and hope for a larger drop, just to make back what i spent. the oil loot and whatnot does not cover the cost of the hunt, no matter how much some may think it does. After realizing this, theres no way, no WAY i could sell these things for a measly 1-2 pec per. Thats just driving myself into the dirt at my own expense and your benefit.
 
Yes, but you need to keep in mind that all of us lose money playing this game. That is the cost to play. I have a hard time with the idea of completely subsidizing other player's game time. Many new players sweat the mobs first before killing them in order to cover hunting losses.
 
I think paying 1-2 PEC each is a good price. What is a good point to turn in tokens? I need 50 more bones, then I can go turn it in (I have bought some and hunted most of them myself). I have 59.9 Agility right now and it goes up sloooooow for me already. Would I be wise to wait until I reach 70 Agility before turning the tokens in?

How did some avatars reach 127 or 150 or even 199 Agility? I've seen them with my scanner. I started in 2007 and its always been slow going for me, even with SIB guns. Even in 2007 avatars with 60-70 Agility were pretty rare :scratch2:
 
I think paying 1-2 PEC each is a good price. What is a good point to turn in tokens? I need 50 more bones, then I can go turn it in (I have bought some and hunted most of them myself). I have 59.9 Agility right now and it goes up sloooooow for me already. Would I be wise to wait until I reach 70 Agility before turning the tokens in?

How did some avatars reach 127 or 150 or even 199 Agility? I've seen them with my scanner. I started in 2007 and its always been slow going for me, even with SIB guns. Even in 2007 avatars with 60-70 Agility were pretty rare :scratch2:


If you think 59 agility is slow, you are in for a surprise later on.. :)


Agility skill gains, as well as all skill gains, were nerfed a long time ago... Many ubers who started playing very far back and played A LOT and often got a lot of agility, Mindark noticed it was gained too fast for a game where skills is the one thing you get every day, all day while hunting so it was nerfed, the higher you go the more you need to cycle to gain a skill point.. A lot more at higher levels.. There are some uber logs somewhere on the forum where they track their goal to reach a certain agility amount, you should check it out and see the peds they cycled to gain just 1 point... :)

I sadly can't remember who it was, or where it was.. Someone else might read this, remember the thread and post it tho.. +rep to anyone who does :)


save your tokens would be very wise... but this also depends on what level you have decided to hunt at ofc :) the longer u wait to turn it in the more you "win" by doing it, I haven't completed many agility missions yet for a reason.. want to be at least 85 or 90 before I turn them in :)
 
As far as I can tell, agility increases about at the same rate as regular skills. They all slow down eventually.
 
...
save your tokens would be very wise...
...the longer u wait to turn it in the more you "win" by doing it, I haven't completed many agility missions yet for a reason.. want to be at least 85 or 90 before I turn them in :)
On the other hand... If you spend 5 more years to get more agility before turning it in, and then quit (or Entropia closes) next year, maybe it's better to have had the extra agility all those years?
 
Personally, I think the best time to collect the bones is when you are applying to a soc that uses agility as an entrance criteria and you are one point short.

:)
 
On the other hand... If you spend 5 more years to get more agility before turning it in, and then quit (or Entropia closes) next year, maybe it's better to have had the extra agility all those years?

According to entropedia Agility has an 8% skill effect toward Evader, and some other skills to a lesser extent. I assume some actuarial type could do a cost/benifit analysis to figure out how much 1 Agility point would save you in decay over time taking it now vs. later.

I think it would be worth taking now (bird in the hand), vs. taking it later, since the benefit is immediate, even if it might be slight. Saving it for a later that may never come seems like a waste, especially if one spends most of their time in game standing in front of mobs that are banging on them like I do. I'd rather have them missing me now. Later on I'll have even more evade and HP to help as Agility slows down.

I also assume the powers that be at MA will continue to add more content, more mobs and more missions and more attribute tokens or the equivalent as we go along, in which case I will add it later as I go.

I don't know, I may be totally thinking wrong about it, I'll look forward to seeing the maths on it.
 
I think paying 1-2 PEC each is a good price. What is a good point to turn in tokens? I need 50 more bones, then I can go turn it in (I have bought some and hunted most of them myself). I have 59.9 Agility right now and it goes up sloooooow for me already. Would I be wise to wait until I reach 70 Agility before turning the tokens in?

How did some avatars reach 127 or 150 or even 199 Agility? I've seen them with my scanner. I started in 2007 and its always been slow going for me, even with SIB guns. Even in 2007 avatars with 60-70 Agility were pretty rare :scratch2:

before 2005 it was alot easier to skill afk then it was today. some avatars that have such high agility either skilled like crazy, or spend alot of time afk-fapping or shooting with low cost weapens at a trapped target. this allowed them to raise their skills extremely high for a low cost, and due to nerves since then it is close to impossible to get by on natural skilling alone. If you dedicate enough time to it, you could probably still get to 85-90 agility in 1-2 years, but after that you are lucky with 1-3 levels per year. however, you can still go higher by using the atribute missions. problem is, once you go higher you can not re-do the mission, and skilling will come even harder.

So ideally, you would not turn them in until you reached the maximum agility possible, which used to be 500, but that's probably higher now (seen on MA used avatars). However, realistically most people will do a few points here and there, but most will wait untill they feel have reached their "ceiling" in agility, a point where it will take longer then say, 6 months of active hunting to raise a level. They will then use missions to increase their agility, and consider from then on that all their new agility level gains will always be from missions.


So in the end it is up to you, but i'd recommend waiting for that ceiling as long as you can. keep raising it, if you can.
 
am new here and have been hunting these things for days now. for those of u who are lookin to buy, plz consider that .05 barely, BARELY covers the cost of going on another hunt. more often than not, ive ended up having to buy less ammo, and hope for a larger drop, just to make back what i spent. the oil loot and whatnot does not cover the cost of the hunt, no matter how much some may think it does. After realizing this, theres no way, no WAY i could sell these things for a measly 1-2 pec per. Thats just driving myself into the dirt at my own expense and your benefit.

Hi Xeex!

I'm also new here.

Please listen. Sweating is almost dead. For those who don't want to, or can't, deposit, our only option was sweating....until the new bones quest was introduced.

But wait! Considering that puny mobs give crappy loot, & I get about 50-60% returns best case, to be able to even fund a 20% smaller hunt, I need to sell my bone samples for 5 pec each.

I know that isn't your job, ubers and pro players, to help fund us. But more & more newbs are quitting everyday, simply because there is literally no way to break even for years as a noob now. Even swunting! the 10 sweat only contributes about 1.7 pecs to the loot, & the loot is about 2.6 ped from 5 ped hunt(not including decay).

With 5 ped ammo & kiwio, I can kill about 120 punies, maybe + or - 10. That's 1200 sweat, or +2.04 ped. That still, after countless extra time sweating them dry, doesn't even cover the cost of the ammo! & That's best case, assuming you waste even more time to regen health after each & every mob.

Sure, it builds skills, but what are skills worth when you can't even get a decent return rate w/o spending tons of extra time?

This grind is what has most noobs leaving the game in droves, trust me I've seen it. These bones, now, finally, finally, gives us a chance to have minimal profit if we swunt....but only if you don't buy our hard-earned bones for as little as 1 pec!

We, are helping you, to your mission to get 10k bones. We are saving you the time, & about 3,500 ped cycled, which by your estimate would take 20 days. Not to mention obviously, negative loot.

So can't you help us a little bit more? We are saving you hours of grinding. When you spam "buying bones for 5 pecs each", not only can you be doing EP or on the forum & check back every 30 seconds, but, since you would offer higher rates, more ppl will swarm you to sell!

All us noobs ask for is a way to be actually able to play, w/o afk grinding sweat 3k/day for 50 cents per day.

Thank you.

May the HOF as always, be with you.
 
Hi DT,

I really do understand your point, but you need to understand a few things-

1) When a great many of us started, there was basically one SIB weapon of each type in the game. After we got sick of Opallos, we bought an old-school, non-eco weapon and pissed away PEDs at an unfortunate rate. You guys already have it extraordinarily easy.

2) MA has previously said that the average cost to play EU is expected to be $1-2 per hour. If you can't deposit money into the game, your future is not bright. I am no uber or pro gamer and I often spend $20-30 per evening. Sometimes (very rarely), I loot something expensive enough to keep me playing for a couple weeks without depositing.

3) I am glad you posted here because I really want to hear all sides. I started this thread in hopes that we could have an open discussion with all sides represented. That being said, I think it's going to come down to what is that one point of agility truly worth? I've been giving a couple guys 5 PEC apiece for bones, but that's just to help them out. I'm still having a hard time convincing myself that it's worth 500 PED. We'll see.
 
Hi DT,

I really do understand your point, but you need to understand a few things-

1) When a great many of us started, there was basically one SIB weapon of each type in the game. After we got sick of Opallos, we bought an old-school, non-eco weapon and pissed away PEDs at an unfortunate rate. You guys already have it extraordinarily easy.

2) MA has previously said that the average cost to play EU is expected to be $1-2 per hour. If you can't deposit money into the game, your future is not bright. I am no uber or pro gamer and I often spend $20-30 per evening. Sometimes (very rarely), I loot something expensive enough to keep me playing for a couple weeks without depositing.

3) I am glad you posted here because I really want to hear all sides. I started this thread in hopes that we could have an open discussion with all sides represented. That being said, I think it's going to come down to what is that one point of agility truly worth? I've been giving a couple guys 5 PEC apiece for bones, but that's just to help them out. I'm still having a hard time convincing myself that it's worth 500 PED. We'll see.

Hmm, true that it IS easier I suppose. However, considering I've heard a few ppl say that it takes them months to earn 1 agility..., well like those who are buying & rselling to those ubers, then they should offer a complete set of bones for higher, so they can buy little bits of bones from us noobs at at least 4 pec each.

Thinking we need to compromise, considering that most bone buyers I see at icarus don't look like ubers(hmm...maybe I should scan them?). I'm asuming at least a few are resellers, in which case then I'd like to know what you'll pay for a full set of bones, hopefully higher then a few at a time??

Thank you for understanding where I'm coming from =)
 
my current agility is in the 70 range. Following some suggestions, I've been offering 1 PEC each or 1.10 PEDs per hundred.

Is that reasonable? Am I screwing the noobies? Am I screwing myself? Any thoughts?
I don't even know how many bones you need yet for one Agility, but at lvl 70 Agi I'd think one extra point is worth a pretty penny.

The thing is, Attributes - as they now have become tradable, but not (yet) chippable - works outside the normal Skills system.

Skill gains are quadratic (or logarithmic, or asymptotically) reduced vs. money spent. But, for every skill point contributing to Attribute, you get the same Attribute increase whether you are lvl 1 or lvl 100. What costs a metric load more is the Skills - the Attributes relation to the Skills remain linear.

As such, if you have bones, it doesn't matter when you spend them to get an attribute point - Attributes are "outside the system". What matter is how much an attribute point is worth to you.

When freshly landed on Calypso, going from agi 1-2 could be worth 10 PED to some?

After a number of years, going from 92-93 (thinking of danimals Agi chase), one such point could be worth much more. If you met Kimmi while wearing the spending trousers, maybe way more. :)
 
Ok, I went out and did a couple of runs to see exactly what it would cost me to loot them myself.

My setup is-

Herman CAP-TT R (the TT pistol from Arkadia)
Omegatron A101, Bullseye 4 site, Hanzor scope
Opallo (the TT rifle from Calypso) for tagging, when needed.
Omegatron B101 (L), Bullseye 4 site, Hanzor scope
No armor
No FAP

Each time, I started at full repair and bought 50 PEDs of ammo for an easy baseline.

What I found-
After taking into consideration the MU of looted weapons and amps, I loot about 150 bones per hour at a cost of 1-2 PEC each.

This is based on my skill level, using somewhat expensive equipment, knowing where to hunt and what to hunt. I do not expect a new player to have the same results. Also, this doesn't take into consideration the value of the skills I receive or the tiering gains on my equipment.
 
Bullseye 4 site, Hanzor scope

Why? :)

I went yesterday to check the droprate too, spent full Bukin's blade (34 ped tt) right outside of PA's east wall and ended up with 72 bones. That's including killing of 3 or 4 snables which don't give bones and which MA apparently found fun to place among punies.
 
I've never been really clear on whether or when attachments help, but the decay is so low that I always use them.

I went yesterday to check the droprate too, spent full Bukin's blade (34 ped tt) right outside of PA's east wall and ended up with 72 bones. That's including killing of 3 or 4 snables which don't give bones and which MA apparently found fun to place among punies.

I did a couple runs there last week and actually came back profitable. I think I was using a FAL-1 or Falx blade at the time. The bone drop rate there is much worse than on others, but you get nicer items. My main target is bone samples, so I concentrate on the mobs with the best drop rate. Plus, I'm trying to stay out of areas where new players are hunting so as not to make things harder for them.
 
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