6 million USD by CLD's - where is the advertisement, and the new customers?

can you just send me a link, or give me one actual example of an proper calypso/entropia advertising, not a little google adsense one at the bottom of the screen when watching porn but a full fledged one that anyone would see?

Nope. That's not the point. The point is the OP's premise is 100% wrong. The entire 6 million was not to be used for advertising. It was a general fund with multiple efforts that had portions of it allocated. For all we know they could have only allocated $10 towards advertising.

I'm not exactly thrilled with the advertising effort. Considering something I authored has been used in the campaign, if only for selfish reasons I'd like to have more visibility there. It's good for the job portfolio. But I'm also not trying to misrepresent things in a negative light in order to stir up drama.

I have no choice, given how the contract was represented, but to shut up and bite my tongue. They have not to my knowledge broken it. Now if they used any portion of that CLD money to advertise EU as a whole, or any other planet partner, or to fund development of anything that was not Planet Calypso specific, then I would have reason to be upset. Because that would be a breach of contract as it was represented to CLD investors.
 
Nope. That's not the point. The point is the OP's premise is 100% wrong. The entire 6 million was not to be used for advertising. It was a general fund with multiple efforts that had portions of it allocated. For all we know they could have only allocated $10 towards advertising.

I'm not exactly thrilled with the advertising effort. Considering something I authored has been used in the campaign, if only for selfish reasons I'd like to have more visibility there. It's good for the job portfolio. But I'm also not trying to misrepresent things in a negative light in order to stir up drama.

I have no choice, given how the contract was represented, but to shut up and bite my tongue. They have not to my knowledge broken it. Now if they used any portion of that CLD money to advertise EU as a whole, or any other planet partner, or to fund development of anything that was not Planet Calypso specific, then I would have reason to be upset. Because that would be a breach of contract as it was represented to CLD investors.

Yes, technically spot on. So maybe if the thread title was changed would be better..
But for me, and I have to say it, I find it frustrating that I tell hardcore online gamer mates at work, (and I work in IT so its full of them) That someone looted $33k or whatever, and they're like "why haven't I heard about Entropia then?" And these guys are active on numerous gaming forums. Now I have never been on a SINGLE (non eu) gaming forum, and only played two MMO's in my life... And yet I can name many, many MMO's...

It just frustrates me.
 
Yes, technically spot on. So maybe if the thread title was changed would be better..
But for me, and I have to say it, I find it frustrating that I tell hardcore online gamer mates at work, (and I work in IT so its full of them) That someone looted $33k or whatever, and they're like "why haven't I heard about Entropia then?" And these guys are active on numerous gaming forums. Now I have never been on a SINGLE (non eu) gaming forum, and only played two MMO's in my life... And yet I can name many, many MMO's...

It just frustrates me.

Me too. I can think of plenty of reasons why not to advertise, this forum and the general attitude here being one of them. But I am in full agreement. If something is sold to me (CLD) and part of the contract of sale is that money will be spent towards advertisement, I'd like to see something. It's good internal PR, shows me that my investment is being used wisely and in accordance with my general wishes, and is something that users can point to when talking to the game with their associates.

Of course if all I had to point towards was Google Ads with keywords directed so that mostly people who play the product see the ads I'd probably not be pointing that out to any associates as a positive.

That's not to say the ads arent working. I have had people approach me ingame over the last year and ask me if I am really the person who wrote article XYZ, then tell me that I am the reason they are playing. So just anecdotally I can say that yes, the ads are working. They are reaching people. But are they as effective as they could be? I dont know, because nobody here is really informed on how the campaign is put together, what its intended audience is, and what its scope is.
 
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The 6 millions were an emergency loan sort of speak in order to settle the accounts with SEE, which they did last year, also probably went into the server replacements and to pay current debts (game in red for years). How much they paid, maybe we will find out in the 2013 annual report due in 2 months.

The advertising costs - minimal in my view, and I could care less about it.
 
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The 6 millions were an emergency loan sort of speak in order to settle the accounts with SEE, which they did last year, also probably went into the server replacements and to pay current debts (game in red for years). How much they paid, maybe we will find out in the 2013 annual report due in 2 months.

The advertising costs - minimal in my view, and I could care less about it.

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PS: The 6 million did NOT settle any account with SEE. SEE never paid their share. Why would MA need to 'settle' anything with them financially? You must be thinking SEE didnt like Calypso, and 'returned' it to MA, demanding their money back.

That's not how these things work.

SEE was in breach of contract, on multiple fronts, after failing to both pay for Calypso and deliver anything more than a website on "Planet Michael" and a promise of "Planet Universal Studios." Anyone who followed up on SEE could SEE a history of promises they did not deliver on, so really this was no surprise. But I digress. MA owed them nothing. Legally they may have even been able to seize a small portion of what SEE had paid for the product in their initial installment as a penalty for breaking contract. Kindof like when you buy a house. If you dont follow through at any point after your good faith deposit is made, the seller gets to keep both the house and your deposit.
 
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The cash flow balance has been greatly affected by the installment payments to SEE Digital Studios and SEE Virtual Worlds. The last installment will take place in October 2013.

You can twist this statement any way you want, but this is settlement. Without CLD money could not happen.
 
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You can twist this statement any way you want, but this is settlement. Without CLD money could not happen.

You assume too much.

Here's my theory: Without a Planet Partner for Calypso, MA was likely in breach of contract with the other PP's. SEE fell through, so they came up with an idea to sell the Planet to the players, and act as stewards. This explains the sale of the shares, as well as the voting system, and they payouts.

Your theory of MA being broke and just needing the money explains only the sale.
 
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The advertising costs - minimal in my view, and I could care less about it.

that should be couldn't care less, I expect better from you :wise:
thats just a thing that really bugs me :rolleyes:
 
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You're not happy to correct (there is another problem with you thinking you're always right, but that's another issue more likely linked to an over-inflated ego), you ask for censorship. And is not the first time, and each time I have a problem with it. I will not come to the positive threads (as few as they are) and ask for the OP to be locked because I think is lying or misleading.

Second, I'm definitely NOT giving MA any money, if you refer to me. As little I know the OP from his posts, I do not think he's spending money in game atm (and of course now we lost our right to comment on anything as we are not spenders...). Still I'm spending the peds I accumulated in game following my small deposits, whatever I did not took out I mean. BTW, there are players who can take some small personal money and develop them into a larger amount without "organizing community" aka taking money from government and spend them while posing as a non-profit organization... So is settled, no idiots either.

And was not about this at all, it was about the destination of those CLD money destination and I already stated my opinion on them: SEE payments, hardware upgrades, various debts and current operations. Advertising costs I think went to the last place.

Third, I will quote AGAIN from the last Mindark financial report for the last 6 months. It seems you are unable to inform yourself even when quoted official information but prefer to make your own assumptions.

Operating expenses decreased from 41 million SEK in the previous year to 28.6 million SEK this year. This
decrease is mainly a result of the settlement with SEE Digital Studios and SEE Virtual Worlds last year

SETTLEMENT... if SEE was in breach, and MA has to pay them money, then that Martin Biallas dude has a heck of a lawyer team.

2014 will be free of SEE payments. Is MA chance now to do it right, and 3 months already passed.

that should be couldn't care less, I expect better from you :wise:
thats just a thing that really bugs me :rolleyes:

I am not a native English speaker nor living in one but you're right - maybe some American influence from movies as Oxford dictionary also states :)
 
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PS: The 6 million did NOT settle any account with SEE. SEE never paid their share. Why would MA need to 'settle' anything with them financially? You must be thinking SEE didnt like Calypso, and 'returned' it to MA, demanding their money back.

That's not how these things work.

SEE was in breach of contract, on multiple fronts, after failing to both pay for Calypso and deliver anything more than a website on "Planet Michael" and a promise of "Planet Universal Studios." Anyone who followed up on SEE could SEE a history of promises they did not deliver on, so really this was no surprise. But I digress. MA owed them nothing. Legally they may have even been able to seize a small portion of what SEE had paid for the product in their initial installment as a penalty for breaking contract. Kindof like when you buy a house. If you dont follow through at any point after your good faith deposit is made, the seller gets to keep both the house and your deposit.


From the semi annual report 2013:

"The cash flow balance has been greatly affected by the installment payments to SEE Digital Studios and SEE Virtual Worlds. The last installment will take place in October 2013".

My guess is about 3M USD was payed to SEE, half the CLD money.
 
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From the semi annual report 2013:

"The cash flow balance has been greatly affected by the installment payments to SEE Digital Studios and SEE Virtual Worlds. The last installment will take place in October 2013".

My guess is about 3M USD was payed to SEE, half the CLD money.

Your guess implies a breach of contract between MA and the buyers of the CLD, as this was not a disclosed cost, and while it may be permitted if no disclosure was made on how the 6M was to be spent, since a disclosure was made in writing of intended spending avenues, that would in fact constitute a contract in any legal situation.

I don't think MA would risk their entire enterprise on what basically amounts to fraud.

Context here is important. What installment payouts? I saw that too, however I thought it was a mis-translation from Google translate of the original Swedish document.
 
Nope. That's not the point. The point is the OP's premise is 100% wrong. The entire 6 million was not to be used for advertising. It was a general fund with multiple efforts that had portions of it allocated. For all we know they could have only allocated $10 towards advertising.

no it isnt wrong. in the OP gracious acknowldgement of the original pitch, we see there was a claim to fund substantial marketing. now, i recognise marketing can and should extend beyond simply paying for banner ads, but its obvious to anyone that there hasnt been any sustantial marketing effort. i see liitle evidence of development either.

you've called it fraud that monies went to pay SEE, your cioce of words, fact of the matter is that was a substantial settlement to make in a lump sum - where else do you think this could come from? you might also note you have no contract with MA or FPC for CLD, only goodwill. so far they've made the payments and thats their main obligation covered. they'll release some half arsed vote system in 2014 and fudge some property land grab and development once they work out how to make it drive more revenue. (i reckon they're treading water hoping wider ecomony up turn will revive the interest in the game.)
 
Your guess implies a breach of contract between MA and the buyers of the CLD, as this was not a disclosed cost, and while it may be permitted if no disclosure was made on how the 6M was to be spent, since a disclosure was made in writing of intended spending avenues, that would in fact constitute a contract in any legal situation.

I don't think MA would risk their entire enterprise on what basically amounts to fraud.

Context here is important. What installment payouts? I saw that too, however I thought it was a mis-translation from Google translate of the original Swedish document.

It's from their own English version, no Google stuff. Also in the annual report of 2012 you can read this:

"In June 2012, the arbitration between SEE Digital Studios and Planet Calypso AB (then under the
name AR Universe AB) together MindArk regarding Planet Calypso was settled. Planet Calypso AB
and MindArk are satisfied with the settlement arrangement. "

We can also see a huge increase in "other external cost" for the MA Group:
2012: Other external costs -41 874 121 kr
2011: Other external costs -20 703 706 kr

An increase around 21MSEK or roughly around 3MUSD, that's why I make that guess. It's otherwise hard to explain that huge spike in "other costs" the same year they made the settlement with SEE, also confirmed by the text in the report in 2013 where they still was making payments to SEE. Of course I just speculating about the exact numbers and I can't know for sure how the settlement payment was, but around 3MUSD would match with the suddenly cost increase.


MA never promised that all the money from the CLDs would be earmarked for any special function, it's their money and they can do what they want with it. They was just telling us what their goal and intention was, that is not a promise or contract.
 
MA never promised that all the money from the CLDs would be earmarked for any special function, it's their money and they can do what they want with it. They was just telling us what their goal and intention was, that is not a promise or contract.

It's actually not their money, so to speak. Even in Sweden they have what is deemed an implied contract. An implied contract is in short, what is between the lines, but can be reasonably expected. A reasonable expectation can be inferred based on statements made during the course of a sale, as long as the selling entity goes on the record while saying them. On the record would be defined as having an official representative state information about the product in question. A Q&A session by a company rep qualifies as this.

I will however correct one thing I said earlier, that a breach of contract would exist if money from CLD were used for anything other than Planet Calypso.

Bjorn seems to have clarified this with the following statement:

Q. How will the proceeds of the Land Lot deeds be used by MindArk?
A. The proceeds from the Land Lot deeds will help to finance a substantial Entropia Universe marketing campaign, along with further development of Entropia Universe and Planet Calypso.

With this, it is clear that CLD purchases may be used to fund any portion of the development of Planet Calypso and EU. Paying off a bill to a 3rd party (SEE) I do not think is a development cost. It is a cost of doing business, as it relates to MindArk, however none of that expenditure seems to be related to the actual programming of EU, storyline generation, or the creation of graphical assets. It amounts to the paying of a creditor. I could be wrong on this. Someone will probably say that I am. But that's how I am reading it as a person who is somewhat versed in business law. I'm by no means an expert, but when I created my startup I had to learn a bit of law in order to do so properly.

Are we sure the 'other expenses' arent related to the sale of the castle? I'd have to read the report again. It's been a bit of time, and TBH I was not that concerned with it the first time I read it. It seemed satisfactory.

I'm a bit disappointed that funds from CLD could in theory be used to develop items for Arkadia, or advertise for Cyrene or Next Island. That pushes my buttons, since I am of the belief that individual planets should advertise for themselves, and pay for their own development. It seems a bit skewed to me that while planet partners may benefit from the CLD purchases, the current CLD owner does not benefit from advertising on behalf of the planet partner, thus losing some potential on their investment. This was not my initial understanding, but it is what it is. I have no choice but to accept it.
 
It's actually not their money, so to speak. Even in Sweden they have what is deemed an implied contract. An implied contract is in short, what is between the lines, but can be reasonably expected. A reasonable expectation can be inferred based on statements made during the course of a sale, as long as the selling entity goes on the record while saying them. On the record would be defined as having an official representative state information about the product in question. A Q&A session by a company rep qualifies as this.

Not their money? of course it their money. You sell stuff, you get money, it's your money.

This is what they said:
"Q. How is the revenue share for Land Lot deeds calculated?
A. The Planet Partner Gross Revenue will be divided as follows: 50% paid to Land Lot deedholders (1/60000), and the remaining 50% retained by Planet Calypso (AR Universe AB) to cover the ongoing development, marketing and operating costs of Planet Calypso."


"operating cost of Planet Calypso" could pretty much included every kind of cost you can think of.
 
Not their money? of course it their money. You sell stuff, you get money, it's your money.

This is what they said:
"Q. How is the revenue share for Land Lot deeds calculated?
A. The Planet Partner Gross Revenue will be divided as follows: 50% paid to Land Lot deedholders (1/60000), and the remaining 50% retained by Planet Calypso (AR Universe AB) to cover the ongoing development, marketing and operating costs of Planet Calypso."


"operating cost of Planet Calypso" could pretty much included every kind of cost you can think of.

I like that statement above because it specifies Calypso only. I was lazily looking for it when I came across Bjorn's statement, which I'm sure was issued after that. Ultimately the two statements build on one another and establish, I agree, a very wide scope of operation. Taken together they mean that MA can and will spend the money they get from CLD however they see fit.

As a CLD holder that's not the approach I would advocate for, as the CLD can yes, be used for anything from putting together a cave on Calypso with a great storyline to making elf shoes purple on Arkadia. But if that's how it is, that's how it is. As a responsible Calypso deed holder I'll continue to advocate for Calypso, but I will from this day forward do so with the knowledge that a large percentage of my efforts may in fact end up paying for Cyrene, Arkadia, Next Island, or Planet Emperor Norton I, should such a place ever exist.

Thanks for the clarification.

- MR
 
Not their money? of course it their money. You sell stuff, you get money, it's your money.

This is what they said:
"Q. How is the revenue share for Land Lot deeds calculated?
A. The Planet Partner Gross Revenue will be divided as follows: 50% paid to Land Lot deedholders (1/60000), and the remaining 50% retained by Planet Calypso (AR Universe AB) to cover the ongoing development, marketing and operating costs of Planet Calypso."


"operating cost of Planet Calypso" could pretty much included every kind of cost you can think of.

That explains the division of their regular income. That has nothing to do with what the income from the sale of the CLDs is used for.
 
That explains the division of their regular income. That has nothing to do with what the income from the sale of the CLDs is used for.

No, you are correct, and that was never my main point. It was only that Magyar_Republic stated that MA/Calypso had not payed any settlement money to SEE, but I know they had done that and the information we have hints that it could be around 3MUSD, by chance half the money from the CLD sell. So with a bit imagination it would not be hard to think the they made a deal: "Hey, we sell these CLD to the players, you get half of the money from the sell in settlement payment, we keep the other half". It could also be that they was "the big investor" that had 25 000 CLD before "selling" them. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that MA had a big cash outflow to SEE and therefore I think it's a big chance some of the money from the CLD sell went to the SEE settlement.
 
Running a google ad campaign can be very pricey they can be over $1,$2,$3 a click you can very well see 6 million dollars dissipate in days.
 
No, you are correct, and that was never my main point. It was only that Magyar_Republic stated that MA/Calypso had not payed any settlement money to SEE, but I know they had done that and the information we have hints that it could be around 3MUSD, by chance half the money from the CLD sell. So with a bit imagination it would not be hard to think the they made a deal: "Hey, we sell these CLD to the players, you get half of the money from the sell in settlement payment, we keep the other half". It could also be that they was "the big investor" that had 25 000 CLD before "selling" them. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that MA had a big cash outflow to SEE and therefore I think it's a big chance some of the money from the CLD sell went to the SEE settlement.

What I stated was that it did not make sense for them to pay out settlement money to SEE, as SEE basically defaulted on their payments.

Obviously there was some sort of legal battle there that we all missed. Funny how that works. If you or I buy something, like a car, and dont pay the bill the legal owner is entitled to seize it. If a corporation refuses to pay then attorneys get involved and bills are re-negotiated.

Regardless, nobody has any actual idea how much any settlement with SEE was, or out of what proceeds it was paid. The CLD funds could still be earmarked for other purposes, and any costs born by MA to 'reimburse' SEE for their 'hard work' or whatever it was could have been paid by, say, selling the castle.

Corporate budgets do work like that. My company has almost 40 different budgets that exist within our account structure. Certain initiatives within the company have their own funding pool, and if they exhaust that pool they are not entitled to use money from the rest of the corporation and must either raise the money themselves to cover operating costs, or cut costs so that they fall back into their allocated budget.
 
I thunk much money going to planet named T. and the occasion swamps of robots and these events having hard time finding players as robots don't drop much interesting armors or weapons as far seen so-far.
 
Hoping this isn't seen as breaking the 3.7, here's something the competition made:


Disclaimer: I have never played or felt/feel like playing the above game.
 
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