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Info: Tell me your thoughts on the loot cap.

I didnt see anything on the release notes about a cap, did I miss it?

If there is a loot cap now, that will ruin the fun for the gamblers... cause like it or not, all gamblers are always aiming for ATH.
For some players with bigger bank cards, a cap of 1k or even 10k is gonna remove a big portion of the gambling risk.
 
melander said:
Describing it as there being a "loot cap" i think is wrong, can any mob loot a endless amount of peds? the answer is definitly no, but a cap insinuates that there is a cap manually set by MA. I would be very surpriced if it turns out that there is a hard coded cap on a per mob basis, its needless work that does nothing at all.

It would make much more sense to use a variable condition methodology to calculate loot as it can be used on a macro scale and does not need to be changed on a per mob basis and will still give steady reliable results.

Basically loot is calculated based on predefined over arching principals combined with the stats of the mob in question. In laymans terms there is a cap for every mob but not because it is artifically imposed on top of the loot system but because the way a proper loot system functions.

As to how creature stats are valued i have no clue, one would have to hunt the different types of mobs(fast, high dmg, low dmg etc) and see if there is a difference in "loot multiplier" and even so one would get a clouded image at best.

Best regards
Zweshi
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I did not mean to imply that the cap was by the name of the mob i.e. snabby but as I said by the stats of the mob as you say. See OP items 1 and 2.
 
qamori said:
I didnt see anything on the release notes about a cap, did I miss it?

If there is a loot cap now, that will ruin the fun for the gamblers... cause like it or not, all gamblers are always aiming for ATH.
For some players with bigger bank cards, a cap of 1k or even 10k is gonna remove a big portion of the gambling risk.
Click to expand...

That was kind of my question in the first place and I was hoping that someone could post a link where MA said, in fact, that there would be a loot cap imposed to level out loot among more players. Fewer 5 digit HOFs and more 4 digits ones.
So far everybody is arguing but no one has the posted a link and I am fairly sure there is one somewhere.
 
CozMoDan said:
That was kind of my question in the first place and I was hoping that someone could post a link where MA said, in fact, that there would be a loot cap imposed to level out loot among more players. Fewer 5 digit HOFs and more 4 digits ones.
So far everybody is arguing but no one has the posted a link and I am fairly sure there is one somewhere.
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I don't recall ever reading anything from MA on the topic. They may have talked about leveling out loot at some point but that's not the same as a "cap".
 
Questions like this make me.... confused. :scratch2:
Of course you get smaller loot on mobs with lower levels and higher loot on mobs with higher levels,so yes every mob have an loot interval, have it not always been that way? The have adjusted "the cap" of the interval downwards, but instead made the loot return more average, at least that was their goal.
 
Neil Stockton said:
If you seriously think that MA would allow a 10 million ped ATH to drop, it is completely fine for you to believe that, it is a valid opinion. It is an opinion that is not supported by evidence, however, since the largest hunting ATH has "only" been 330k ped and before that only 127k ped 3.5 years earlier. Until something insanely big drops, I'll say the evidence is in favor of my theory. :)

That says nothing, however, about manual control over uber ATHs. Because of their rarity, it would be impossible to differentiate between automatic or manual release of those loots.
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this is what one calls a straw-man attack, i never claimed anything of the sort so i dont see how i need to respond to that other than to mention the fact that it is quite a cheap debating "tactic".

what i have said is that as far as i know there is or was a max. multiplier of 6K times the cost to kill/drop. so for a hypothetical 10 million ped ath to drop there would have to be a mob with sufficient HP or a combination of amps and indoor mining logic which would allow this to happen, and then we come to the next point, the reason you have not seen many of the really large aths is because "nobody" hunts the mobs that can drop loot of that size. these are all assertions that one can check, every big loot i have looked at in the past fits within the 6K max multiplier of cost to kill/drop (after any tax) model and i have never seen one that breaks this.
do you know any ath or hof that breaks this "rule"?
do you know of any mob or combination that could lead to a "game-breaking" loot?
i dont think you do, you seem to have nothing but a assertion and a theory based on nothing more than your imagination?
 
CozMoDan said:
That was kind of my question in the first place and I was hoping that someone could post a link where MA said, in fact, that there would be a loot cap imposed to level out loot among more players. Fewer 5 digit HOFs and more 4 digits ones.
So far everybody is arguing but no one has the posted a link and I am fairly sure there is one somewhere.
Click to expand...

i have never seen anything of the sort, and when a statistician did a paper on the loot one received in 2007, and i repeated this experiment in 2012 to settle a argument here, the statistician stated that there was not enough data on the larger loots to say anything with any certainty.
the 7K claims recorded in 2007 and a similar amount in 2012 were enough for the statistician to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that overal TT returns had not changed between 2007 and 2012, although there were some minor variations on how this loot was distributed. the "normal" loot distribution accounted for +/- 70% of loot, the higher loot classes (globals+small hofs) accounted for loot up to +/- 90% TT return, and when ppl recorded the higher loot classes these accounted for TT return up to +/- 95%. "we" assumed the 5% of loot was what MA lived off. i personally know a player who received a +/- 90K ath who recorded all their returns in this game and this loot took them to 95% TT return.
the work done by this statistician is available on the forum and is as close to facts that we have regarding how loot is distributed in this game. this might not directly answer your question but it is what we do know about loot.
 
billairboy said:
Questions like this make me.... confused. :scratch2:
Of course you get smaller loot on mobs with lower levels and higher loot on mobs with higher levels,so yes every mob have an loot interval, have it not always been that way? The have adjusted "the cap" of the interval downwards, but instead made the loot return more average, at least that was their goal.
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you are right...all mobs have and had a loot inetrval and are capped by this...

and yes, this was changed some time ago...argo young-scout 10k is not possible anymore...pre vu10 you saw one 10k atrox young-mature or argo young-scout every week..even if they are not hunted that much anymore, there should have been atleast a few...
but i think average return is same (one for example gets much less no loots on low mobs)..but if it is more fun for the players is the other question..(not for me..i enjoyed the chance of getting big loots on small stuff..kept me grinding)

thank god i joined years ago and got my uberloots on low cost things (7.2k oil tower planetside unamped, 2.7k argo scout, 1k conrnudacauda guard)..those things are sadly not possible anymore (or uber extremely rare) ...
 
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GeorgeSkywalker said:
* Removal of a daily 20k+ uber loot also stops the bitching related to such loots i.e. loot being more spread between players hopefully makes it a bit fairer
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Dropping 5-700 drops daily in pvp for 2 months +, highest loot is 900, nibs come in like 3 times a week for a few drops and ubers. Not any fair imho
 
FallenAngel said:
this is what one calls a straw-man attack, i never claimed anything of the sort so i dont see how i need to respond to that other than to mention the fact that it is quite a cheap debating "tactic".

what i have said is that as far as i know there is or was a max. multiplier of 6K times the cost to kill/drop. so for a hypothetical 10 million ped ath to drop there would have to be a mob with sufficient HP or a combination of amps and indoor mining logic which would allow this to happen, and then we come to the next point, the reason you have not seen many of the really large aths is because "nobody" hunts the mobs that can drop loot of that size. these are all assertions that one can check, every big loot i have looked at in the past fits within the 6K max multiplier of cost to kill/drop (after any tax) model and i have never seen one that breaks this.
do you know any ath or hof that breaks this "rule"?
do you know of any mob or combination that could lead to a "game-breaking" loot?
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It's not a straw-man attack, it's a simple logic. If you believe that mobs can loot up to 6000x multipliers and you believe that there are mobs with 500k hp then you believe in 10M ped loots. If you do the calculation you will see that a 6000x multiplier for Zombie Kong is 9M ped (ignoring regen). So yes, I do assert that you are claiming that a "10M" ped loot is possible. In fact if hussk was hunted it would be 40M ped loot.

As I said before, whether these 6000x multipliers are automatically given out by the system or manually approved is a matter of speculation, it can't be proven.
 
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Neil Stockton said:
In regards to mining, the highest confirmed unamped mining claims GMC has had in the last 1.25M drops is 2000x multiplier for both ore and enmatter (very rare... only 1 of each). 1000x multipliers are relatively common (10-20 claims for each type) and claims between 1000x and 2000x seem to be nearly as rare as 2000x.
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Last 1.25M drops are since when? Don't take with you the year of 2012 since it is right what you say. But 2013-2014. Tell me about this one. It is reduced much. Earlier we used to get "mostly" V finds as normal, now it is IV that is the normal ore finds
 
Magnus Mag said:
you are right...all mobs have and had a loot inetrval and are capped by this...

and yes, this was changed some time ago...argo young-scout 10k is not possible anymore...pre vu10 you saw one 10k atrox young-mature or argo young-scout every week..even if they are not hunted that much anymore, there should have been atleast a few...
but i think average return is same (one for example gets much less no loots on low mobs)..but if it is more fun for the players is the other question..(not for me..i enjoyed the chance of getting big loots on small stuff..kept me grinding)

thank god i joined years ago and got my uberloots on low cost things (7.2k oil tower planetside unamped, 2.7k argo scout, 1k conrnudacauda guard)..those things are sadly not possible anymore (or uber extremely rare) ...
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Exactly!
If you didn't achieved your best loots before January 2013 I wish you good luck! You will need it!



So the Op want a link to prove this?


From Entropia Universe bolletin:

"Finally, as some of you may have noticed, MindArk has already started celebrating by juicing up the loots, globals and HoFs! No one can be sure when this insanity will end so be sure to grab your share of these ‘Modified Loots’!" 2013-01-30


This was all they ever said! Yes in fact we have less no looters now but the hope for a big loot on mobs like argo, drone, molisk, foul, daik, cornunda, etc are now completely gone! If you don't believe go to EL and for any of this mobs click on latest ubers...
 
Fanan said:
Exactly!

From Entropia Universe bolletin:

"Finally, as some of you may have noticed, MindArk has already started celebrating by juicing up the loots, globals and HoFs! No one can be sure when this insanity will end so be sure to grab your share of these ‘Modified Loots’!" 2013-01-30


This was all they ever said! Yes in fact we have less no looters now but the hope for a big loot on mobs like argo, drone, molisk, foul, daik, cornunda, etc are now completely gone! If you don't believe go to EL and for any of this mobs click on latest ubers...
Click to expand...


i think with this message they didn't want to say something about future loot changes..it was just that there were more uberloots and hofs the system payed out for a very short period to celebrate TEN (one day or so?)..so i think"mod loot" was the term for this short period..

i myself got unusual high multiplier on standard dampers while another person spammed some huge ubers crafting dynera?(not sure if dynera) and other ppl spammed unusual high crafting globals/hofs/ubers same time..

but yes, shortly afetr this, we got the new more averaged loot system....
 
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TheRock said:
Last 1.25M drops are since when? Don't take with you the year of 2012 since it is right what you say. But 2013-2014. Tell me about this one. It is reduced much. Earlier we used to get "mostly" V finds as normal, now it is IV that is the normal ore finds
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Yes it is just 2013 and 2014, the last 12 months.
 
Players voted for a change in the loot system. Whine's about no looters and big loot swings.

Well MA gave you what you wanted, congrats
 
crazy said:
Players voted for a change in the loot system. Whine's about no looters and big loot swings.

Well MA gave you what you wanted, congrats
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i never voted for that:(

but as alwys in eu, i will adapt....
 
Pretender said:
the reason imo that the big ones on small mobs don't happen anymore is simply that not enough people hunt them (compared to a few years ago) to make the system give them those large multipliers.

since planets were introduced and the community did not grow as much as it got devided across those planets (and there fore servers and mobs) the chances of those big mobs happening again are small. multiply the current userbase by 100 and i doubt the hoflist would even register anything below 1000 ped.
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This is the answer... you can't technically prove a cap (eventhough a range makes sense), it's all a slot machine and what you put in, and how much is put in, affects how much comes back out -%'s...

I remember a few years ago people complaining about noobs getting 1000 ped hofs on small mobs and how the system was too unbalanced/risky, now people are complaining it isn't risky enough; MA just can't win :laugh:

It's simple, if you want to skill with low risk, it will take a long time, higher risk=shorter time. If you're looking for an uber, you need to raise your level of play and gamble more, ie. level 12's foma :smoke:

Sad for some, good for others, but the system has definitely become more balanced.

As far as luck and the ''manual control'' stuff, that's nonsense. It all comes down to cycling enough (putting enough coins in the slot machine), picking the right mode that CAN uber (full cond. dynera's, high-level amps on FOMA, or high HP mobs), and doing all this on the right server at the opportune moment when the server clicks to ''pay-out''... It's all a very basic casino based on percentages, probabilities, and numerical(ped) input on each server, and then generates a return like an Excel calculation. Any other way and it'd be technically illegal.
 
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From what I have read, the main problem is balancing out returns for gamblers and grinders. I think that people that grinded their way up to big mobs, get a ton of bad loot and then watched a newbie get a 1k, complain. But hey, it's called gambling for a reason. The other main problem is the amount of players. If we had 1000 players losing 40 pec a mob... We would have enough PED to Hof 400 PED. If he had 10000 players with -10 pec a mob, we would have enough for a 1000 HOF!
 
was reading the post from the beginning, and I can add this for those discussing about mining multipliers

9 301 PED Part Of Fossil Tooth 08/23/2013

found on ark, unamped with f105, so x6000 multiplier

if I remember right there were plenty of treasure towers on ark at this period

and its late in 2013 so TheRock and Neil, seems you are wrong on the 1k-2k+ max planetside. But the change is very visible, so we can guess its just a lot more rare, and treasure have always seemed to be "special" to me...:confused:
 
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Ember said:
From what I have read, the main problem is balancing out returns for gamblers and grinders. I think that people that grinded their way up to big mobs, get a ton of bad loot and then watched a newbie get a 1k, complain.
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There was also the case of a newbie miner hitting a +10k hof just outside of PA on their first day of mining. And yes there were a lot of complaints at the time.

We're in the situation that mobs have much higher HP than they've had before, certainly when the loot system was designed it was never meant for boss mobs with +1,000,000 hp that can take large numbers of players several hours to kill.

If you get 90% return from any level, then why take on the upper orders if you'll get the same return rate? From MA's perspective the obvious choice would be to reduce the chance of a ooto loot from the lower and increase it on the upper to increase the chance of a player depositing.
 
billairboy said:
Questions like this make me.... confused. :scratch2:
Of course you get smaller loot on mobs with lower levels and higher loot on mobs with higher levels,so yes every mob have an loot interval, have it not always been that way? The have adjusted "the cap" of the interval downwards, but instead made the loot return more average, at least that was their goal.
Click to expand...

When was the last 8K argo young or drone gen 01 and why so long ago?
 
There has been very good posts here and a lot of theories. I have one question that still bugs me. Why the big loot changes? By that I mean: Lets say you have been going along plus or minus 50 ped on your runs (whatever the size of the run and you have around 1K ped). This is going on for a couple of weeks and maybe you are down to 900 ped. Then all of a sudden boom in 2 days you are broke! I don't mind losing the 1K because I expected that when I started but just don't take it so fast when thing are going along ok. Let it last 3 or 4 weeks and MA still going to get the ped but just a little slower and I am much happier. BTW this seems to happen a lot more often than boom 2K HOF.
 
SpikeBlack said:
There was also the case of a newbie miner hitting a +10k hof just outside of PA on their first day of mining. And yes there were a lot of complaints at the time.

We're in the situation that mobs have much higher HP than they've had before, certainly when the loot system was designed it was never meant for boss mobs with +1,000,000 hp that can take large numbers of players several hours to kill.

If you get 90% return from any level, then why take on the upper orders if you'll get the same return rate? From MA's perspective the obvious choice would be to reduce the chance of a ooto loot from the lower and increase it on the upper to increase the chance of a player depositing.
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But not all the players in game can hunt levia, prots or feffox! Actually, even to get a 500 ped HOF from a molisk guardian it's a impossible thing! You still have very poor returns over all the mobs that you hunt but some just got removed the chance to give you something nice. Then what is the hope for a low level hunters?

To transform a game into a work is a big change. We already seeing the effects of it and they will become even more evident sooner or later. We will end up with only the big rollers and then the very unskilled newbies that played only weeks. Till they realize what the chances are for them to get something nice if they are not hunting feffox, levias or prots!
 
I know I can't and have no intention of ever trying. I lost interest in bigger mobs in vu9 when MA gave certain mobs more HP and higher regens with the promise of them always looting - which was a lie, wasted my ped on plenty of no loot atrox, but as players lapped it up they shouted down those that didn't with the chorus of leave if you don't like it.

Not unlike those who said we should all embrace the equiping fees on clothes, something MA are now looking likely to remove. No doubt to great applause by the same people.

I then lost interest in team hunting knowing that as I wouldn't deposit the amounts needed to keep up with the dps changes I had almost zero chance of getting anything nice in a stack share.

I've hunted low end since then with a single tt weapon. Slow and boring is the name of the game and although I've got some nice surprises every now and then (all of which fell in the 5-70ped range) all I've seen is a reduction in the items I can loot and an increase of yet more stackables no one wants in the desperate actions of MA trying to keep even a small glimmer of the RCE alive.
 
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Fanan said:
But not all the players in game can hunt levia, prots or feffox!
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Atrox my friend, Atrox. :cool:

Eco-hunt Atrox till you kill all 27000 for the missions and by then you'll be skilled enough to hunt Feffox efficiently. I've been working on this on and off for years now :dunce:

Whats nice is that Atrox youngs-olds still have lootability(sp?) over 1,000 ped, whereas Argo do not anymore.


If you're looking for a bit more entertainment then inefficiently hunt something larger, or hunt in a team, but don't be surprised if you lose :\
 
Atrox had their hp and regen adjusted to pay for the extra loot in vu9. Argo's didn't.

Before that you could kill an atrox with opalo, axe 1x0 and a enblade A. Try that now and you're in for a very long and boring afternoon.

Pre-adjustment I could kill Atrox OA, albeit slowly and possiably with a death or two, now I lose the will to live when killing Atrox Young with the same weapon. Which is probably why I hate the huge HP but low level, low agro, low damage mobs.
 
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Argo's and Drone's don't loot Iron and Gazz as they used to. Ppl stopped grinding, hofs stopped popping.
 
zeusrocktropian said:
Argo's and Drone's don't loot Iron and Gazz as they used to. Ppl stopped grinding, hofs stopped popping.
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That is not the main reason!

Have you seen the new spawn for Foul near F. Troy? Or maybe the new spawn of Molisk south of Mega Volt? How dense and quick re spawn they are.

You can kill now much faster even without move your ava more than 10 meters. Then just tell me why no more big loots from Fouls or Molisk like before? Not enough killed? Or maybe because MA capped a lot of low HP mobs on January 2013?

Was checking and last Foul loot above 1k ped was 560 days ago. That was pre January 2013...


I can kill now much faster. I can loss the same as before. But I can't get a big loot from those mobs like before, because MA capped them all!



PS: Loot cap for low hp mobs occurred by the end of January 2013. One month later we got this on the new VU:

  • Lower global thresholds for low-level creatures.
 
CozMoDan said:
There has been very good posts here and a lot of theories. I have one question that still bugs me. Why the big loot changes? By that I mean: Lets say you have been going along plus or minus 50 ped on your runs (whatever the size of the run and you have around 1K ped). This is going on for a couple of weeks and maybe you are down to 900 ped. Then all of a sudden boom in 2 days you are broke! I don't mind losing the 1K because I expected that when I started but just don't take it so fast when thing are going along ok. Let it last 3 or 4 weeks and MA still going to get the ped but just a little slower and I am much happier. BTW this seems to happen a lot more often than boom 2K HOF.
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+50,-50,+50,-300,+50,-50,+50,-50,+150,-50,-50,-50,-300,+50,-50,-50,-300,-300,-50,-50

-1300ped for 20 runs = 93.5% and you end up broke all at once.

doing 1k ped runs its not really logical to expect -+50 every run imo. Of course it does happen a lot, but that just means that the runs it doesn't need to be even more volatile, and thus you see yourself loosing it all in just a few runs when things 'appeared' to be going so well.

(of course you will be loosing your armor/fap/vehicle/tp/etc.... in addition to this)
 
Dunno, I am fine with not having fouls and similars to HOF big, I remember how frustrating was to hunt big just to see the argo young popping 12k to some random ava :)

With all the missions and stuff, you can start hunting troxes after 1-2 months into the game and have a fair shoot for nice loot.

Give it another few months and you can go for big mobs, not to mention you can hunt big mobs in team.

Also hunting big is no reward, troxes are actually nice for value in X possible value out ;)

So yeah, I understand what you are saying, but seems more right to me to not give high hofs for small creatures. As from my past experience it was rather frustrating then motivating (for everyone mid level and above)
 
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