Info: Longtime's IMK2 Hunting Log

Status
I see no reason to believe that maxing a weapon matters.

[h=3]Developer Notes #3[/h]

Efficiency in hunting has several components, the most vital of which is Hit Ability (sometimes abbreviated as HA). Hit Ability is a measure of how accurate you avatar is with a weapon. You can view your avatar’s Hit Ability on a weapon by right-clicking on the weapon and viewing the item’s information panel. Based on your avatar’s skills and the requirements for the particular weapon, a number between 0.0 and 10.0 will be calculated and displayed. The single most important effort a hunter can make in becoming more efficient in his or her hunting activities is to always use weapons which are “maxed” -- weapons with which your avatar has 10.0 Hit Ability. The importance of this cannot be stressed strongly enough.

Originally Posted Here

[h=3]Developer Notes #3[/h]
A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec. Many community websites, such as www.entropiawiki.com, offer detailed statistics on the economy of nearly all the various weapons available in Entropia Universe. The MindArk development team is also considering including more detailed economy statistics on the item information panel in an upcoming release to improve the availability of such information.
Originally Posted Here

Well, the discussion can now be on weither it is the actual maxxing event that matters, or as you said if the dpp that comes with maxing is the key.

Once thing is certain though, yellow line MISS that comes with not maxing is a pretty bad way to produce dmg.
 
Well, the discussion can now be on weither it is the actual maxxing event that matters, or as you said if the dpp that comes with maxing is the key.

Once thing is certain though, yellow line MISS that comes with not maxing is a pretty bad way to produce dmg.

I would say its a combination of both, producing cheap kills is important when grinding, if kills are cheaper with misses vs without i'd pick gun with misses anyday.
 
I am not necessarily arguing against your comment except that this setup is almost 2% better than my other setups.. so by going to a maxed gun, effectively I would be doing worse.

When I get a moment, I will paste all my IMK2 runs for consumption. I'll be honest, I am more concerned about breaking enhancers every 200 or less shots.

2% better how? Remember that DPP is something the players have made up.

That's not just uneco, it's overamped. Different situation.

Exactly.
 
2% better how? Remember that DPP is something the players have made up.



Exactly.

His average returns are at 92.6% instead of 90.6%.

The problem seems to be that he has a shit month and can't figure out how to get back on track. He performed well with the Imk2 before and the turnover is big enough to rule out luck.
 
Well, my LA was good to me and I am a bit surprised at the numbers. 3700ped cycle.. 99.74%TT. So, maybe it is the size of the hunt that has been skewing the numbers since the first 1k of the hunt was poor.

Good to hear :)

Sole time KC (gonna hammer that into my head) has been bad to me was when I went full dps with extreme overkill and bad base eco. I think the size of the mobs help, as you easily can do 500-1500 in a night. That should help to level things out.

Was it 99.XX + tax?
 
Arkadia loot can be topsy turvey and is very similer to the way back when days of weekends on CND.
This is especially true after event weekends when high value items like pirons have dropped its almost is if none of the other mobs have any left to drop.

you can check my kadra on Entropia life for that - seriose amouts of difference in loot comapred to other hunters with the same number of globals.

An issue on Arkadia is the number of lower level hunters maybe now DNA has been found this might change but you can certainly tell the difference betwean hunting scoria and teladon L35 for a scoria young L27 Teladon young.

Now you would have thought that Scoria would loot better than Teladon due to the danger Level and Level of mob but this isnt the case - average loot on teladon is around 2 ped better. you also global more often on teladon than scoria probably because there hunted more often.

Arkadia Mobs still like to have there streak periods - as in you can have lots of globals in a good run then zip nadda crap for what seams like way too many mobs if your not grinding through this then it ends in disaster also higher levels you can still loot crappy loots ok there not no loots but they may as well be.

Luckily the difference in loot value can be covered somewhat on Scoria due to Generic Fuses dropping and most items in the loot having some mu in there.

Unfortunatly its the summer period as well so theres a slowdown - also coupled with Arkadia Gold Rush Hunting and people recently only just getting peds back Arkadia has through no fault of there own had a lot of disgruntled players awaiting peds and refunds back and other planets have drawn them.

Hopefully Arkadia starts to get more settled again but for most of this year its seamed to be harder work on Arkadia especially whith what seams to be a lot of the mid / higher level players not on planet that possibly need to be enticed back.
 
I would say its a combination of both, producing cheap kills is important when grinding, if kills are cheaper with misses vs without i'd pick gun with misses anyday.

Id say its a matter of defining what a cheap kill is.

Is it cheap due to outperforming regen, or cheap as in dmg points produced with a good dpp.

Regen is compensated for ( with a cap ofc ) in loot while poor dpp is not imo.

Ive done decently with both maxxed and non maxxed guns, but in the cases where i grinded with unmaxxed its still been with 2.8xx dpp minimum ( MKV ME ).
 
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Id say its a matter of defining what a cheap kill is.

Is it cheap due to outperforming regen, or cheap as in dmg points produced with a good dpp.

Regen is compensated for ( with a cap ofc ) in loot while poor dpp is not imo.

Ive done decently with both maxxed and non maxxed guns, but in the cases where i grinded with unmaxxed its still been with 2.8xx dpp minimum ( MKV ME ).

A problem I've noticed with regen is not only the extra cost to kill, but the fact that it takes more time to kill and usually mobs like that remove any kind of flow in your hunting.

If I'd compare Kamaldon and Mutated Nusul my kills get a lot more slow than just the HP would suggest. I need to heal, tag mobs, run around and sometimes I even die. Reaching a decent sized hunt requires four times as much time as when hunting a mob with half hp.

I've noticed things get more stable when there is a constant and good flow in the killing. It is obvious that everything goes in waves (time based randomness?) so if you don't feel like gambling or hunting waves I'd say one is better off keeping a constant pace over a long time.

My experience is limited though.
 
Good to hear :)

Sole time KC (gonna hammer that into my head) has been bad to me was when I went full dps with extreme overkill and bad base eco. I think the size of the mobs help, as you easily can do 500-1500 in a night. That should help to level things out.

Was it 99.XX + tax?

That was 99.74 after tax returned. That's sort of where having big hunts helps Or doing my reward program.
 
A problem I've noticed with regen is not only the extra cost to kill, but the fact that it takes more time to kill and usually mobs like that remove any kind of flow in your hunting.

If I'd compare Kamaldon and Mutated Nusul my kills get a lot more slow than just the HP would suggest. I need to heal, tag mobs, run around and sometimes I even die. Reaching a decent sized hunt requires four times as much time as when hunting a mob with half hp.

I've noticed things get more stable when there is a constant and good flow in the killing. It is obvious that everything goes in waves (time based randomness?) so if you don't feel like gambling or hunting waves I'd say one is better off keeping a constant pace over a long time.

My experience is limited though.

I've had the same experience, although it may just be a combination of confirmation bias and the fact that you're obviously going to see more globals when you kill mobs at a faster rate.
 
my results with imk2

I think a lot of people should post numbers instead of empty words, it would make things more simpler and more credible.
If you put the below numbers in a graph you'll notice an ascending trend, I started using imk2 around lvl 75 Hit and 91lvl in dmg, so I would say that skills matter and eco also matters.
For me it was the best weapon I used, but it doesn't matter what you use when MA decide no loot is to be given then you are fucked, and that is, no matter what dps, dpp you have.
Choosing the right mob is very important also.

Code:
1.052425	104.85
0.87313	-126.87
1.22993	229.93
0.42989	-1140.22
1.009045	18.09
0.751205	-497.59
1.81503	815.03
0.72882	-542.36
0.666905	-666.19
0.87008	-129.92
0.363055	-1273.89
0.7605	-479
0.57043	-859.14
0.818225	-363.55
0.467745	-1064.51
0.891875	-216.25
1.04742	94.84
0.76439	-471.22
0.643635	-712.73
1.32833	656.66
0.93982	-120.36
1.15305	306.1
0.552975	-894.05
0.523825	-952.35
0.64927	-701.46
0.847465	-305.07
2.304315	2608.63
0.697675	-604.65
0.89607	-207.86
0.568355	-863.29
1.245355	490.71
0.619065	-761.87
0.9498	-100.4
0.621671429	-794.49
0.707255	-585.49
0.532495	-935.01
0.50556	-988.88
0.86493	-270.14
0.879795	-240.41
0.977995	-44.01
0.727496	-681.26
0.515455	-969.09
0.51962	-960.76
0.86371	-272.58
0.54984	-450.16
1.124825	249.65
2.123505	2247.01
0.901645	-196.71
0.80367	-392.66
0.607055	-785.89
0.95517	-89.66
0.57583	-424.17
0.821956419	-375.85
1.44605	892.1
0.71539	-569.22
0.612405	-775.19
1.02748	27.48
0.607025	-785.95
3.049966667	3074.95
1.29142	582.84
0.664955	-670.09
1.61689	616.89
0.95104	-48.96
1.0603	120.6
0.62203	-755.94
2.39243	2784.86
1.083827273	92.21
0.428419048	-1200.32
0.689365	-621.27
0.434895238	-1186.72
1.058715	117.43
0.84991	-300.18
0.553945	-892.11
0.67061	-658.78
0.868435	-263.13
1.085235	170.47
0.623611765	-639.86
0.626829787	-350.78
0.952975	-94.05
0.79818408	-405.65
0.44082	-559.18
0.970585	-58.83
0.82348	-353.04
1.793927273	873.32
0.91129	-177.42
0.659465	-681.07
0.2843	-715.7
1.203565	407.13
1.36784	735.68
1.06939	138.78
0.47693	-1046.14
1.263665	527.33
0.688357895	-592.12
0.718722467	-446.95
0.92915	-141.7
0.999695	-0.61
0.63035	-739.3
0.7224725	-1110.11
0.914984615	-110.52
0.7165	-283.5
0.847405	-305.19
0.680075	-639.85
0.814905	-370.19
1.144533333	216.8
1.106135	212.27
0.866165	-267.67
0.788244444	-381.16
0.572795	-854.41
0.7802	-373.66
0.67712	-645.76
0.772390909	-500.74
1.026638889	47.95
0.971190368	-63.41
1.179107692	232.84
0.396473913	-1388.11
0.637027894	-1102.8
1.043344086	80.62
0.927755208	-138.71
1.542254652	1486.32
1.022291898	40.17
0.930399579	-132.38
1.513512093	976.7
0.776667619	-782.11
1.420095652	966.22
0.705920833	-705.79
0.754413636	-540.29
0.82845	-480.34
1.14895	238.32
0.671825	-656.35
1.263230248	1166.11
0.662780239	-6621.31
0.637201439	-1008.58
1.24368	243.68
0.888314394	-294.85
0.87902	-241.96
1.054865	109.73
0.30361	-1392.78
1.0301	60.2
0.587583333	-1237.25
0.628920886	-1172.61
1.342472772	1383.59
0.690399079	-806.82
0.85025	-539.1
0.920485714	-333.96
0.672759243	-1814.55
0.541283333	-1100.92
1.127805	255.61
0.79431	-617.07
0.744931667	-1530.41
1.132428571	463.5
0.897676667	-306.97
0.791941429	-1456.41
1.330049618	864.73
1.1382	691
0.766851116	-2110.93
0.852052	-739.74
0.844475714	-1088.67
1.018901389	136.09
0.877576667	-734.54
1.112636622	952.23
0.952658824	-342.04
1.21287116	1323.42
1.085815068	626.45
1.117516257	740.94
0.902688333	-583.87
0.765095238	-1233.25
1.834131068	8884.33
1.675185692	5926.78
0.879807049	-1258.3
0.838786701	-1866.85
0.891877924	-993.75
1.211726175	1612.93
0.91372973	-750.12
1.044511111	240.36
1.037099116	235.06
0.840808989	-991.76
0.937082582	-453.32
 
Ask I suspected.. eco just allows you to hunt for mu and multipliers cheaper but if you get neither.. you are severely screwed. Not being maxed does not magically lower your chances or remove your multipliers.
 
Ask I suspected.. eco just allows you to hunt for mu and multipliers cheaper but if you get neither.. you are severely screwed. Not being maxed does not magically lower your chances or remove your multipliers.

who ever said loot got lower if not maxxed?

Cost however gets higher....
 
I think a lot of people should post numbers instead of empty words, it would make things more simpler and more credible.
If you put the below numbers in a graph you'll notice an ascending trend, I started using imk2 around lvl 75 Hit and 91lvl in dmg, so I would say that skills matter and eco also matters.
For me it was the best weapon I used, but it doesn't matter what you use when MA decide no loot is to be given then you are fucked, and that is, no matter what dps, dpp you have.
Choosing the right mob is very important also.

Yes, because the bolded is fact and statistics and not a personal assumption.

How hard can it be to understand, its in the dev notes, they actually tried to tell us what to do and not to do, but hey yet there is magic involved. Or has to be .. or .. tin foil hat.

MA dont decide much, they set a ecosystem to work and its self regulating in many areas, you really think MA personally sit down and decide day to day loot?

Beeing maxxed is better than not beeing maxxed, having good dpp is better than having shit dpp.

But there has to be mooooore.... Nope.

If loot is bad, dont hunt.
 
who ever said loot got lower if not maxxed?

Cost however gets higher....

Some posts back. The assertion was that my terrible runs were from not being maxed irrespective of the fact that I said I wasn't getting multipliers and my first two months were average And acceptable.

Yes, not being maxed makes cost higher but in this case.. it is on a gun that doesn't decay (.255 pec a shot) and so it is a bit different than not being maxed on a melee weapon or other sib gun. Even a mod merc unmaxed was around 2.75.

Furthermore, my current month result is 86.2% tt now. With sold mu 88.1%. So it is coming up.
 
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Ask I suspected.. eco just allows you to hunt for mu and multipliers cheaper but if you get neither.. you are severely screwed. Not being maxed does not magically lower your chances or remove your multipliers.

But lower skills make u lose alot more when loot is crap.

High skill and high eco will make u not to lose as much when loot is crap so its easier to get back on track when loot is hot again.
 
Some posts back. The assertion was that my terrible runs were from not being maxed irrespective of the fact that I said I wasn't getting multipliers.

Yes, not being maxed makes cost higher but in this case.. it is on a gun that doesn't decay (.255 pec a shot) and so it is a bit different than not being maxed on a melee weapon or other sib gun. Even a mod merc unmaxed was around 2.75.

Well, id say the lack of multipliers made your hunts suck, not the fact that you werent maxxed.

However if you were maxxed, the non multiplied hunt would have sucked less, maybe not by much, but less.
 
But lower skills make u lose alot more when loot is crap.

High skill and high eco will make u not to lose as much when loot is crap so its easier to get back on track when loot is hot again.

correct :):):)
 
But lower skills make u lose alot more when loot is crap.

High skill and high eco will make u not to lose as much when loot is crap so its easier to get back on track when loot is hot again.

I don't refute that. that was never my argument.. but I believe if I were doing the same thing with say.. the calytrek.. then it would have still sucked more than my current configuration and as I skill up.. those bad periods will suck less. Problem is skilling up.. no good laser and rifle missions.. they are all on mu-less crapnel-hell mobs on pooplypso.

I'll post a mid may log entry tomorrow night and see how it goes till the end of the month.

I still have many things to learn when it comes to hunting.. even with 1 million cycled. So thanks all for bearing with me unleashing the inner tacotuesday in me.
 
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I don't refute that. that was never my argument.. but I believe if I were doing the same thing with say.. the calytrek..

However, Mardoff got 97-98% tt return with a mod lr32 over million of peds cycled; he was/is getting a lower tt return rate with an imk2 and crit helmet with a higher dpp.

Likewise, why did girts get 90% tt return with imk2 and also 90% tt return with foeripper+evil at a similar professional level.

Both these examples don't make much sense, if we conclude dpp is important. Mindark say dmg per pec is important, but, it's the same company who miscalculates mayhem scores regularly.
 
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But lower skills make u lose alot more when loot is crap.

High skill and high eco will make u not to lose as much when loot is crap so its easier to get back on track when loot is hot again.


Yeah. But...


His hunts would have sucked even harder with a maxed Calytrek or Kallous 7. His eco on the unmaxxed imk2 is ahead of most sib weapons out there.

The points made in the earlier posts were that it was the fact that he wasn't maxed that made his hunts bad, not the lack off dpp due not being maxed. Points made were pretty much "your dpp doesn't matter if your not maxed".

I think Smilgs and company missed the fact That LT talks about his tracked dpp which is better than most sib weapons out there and NOT the numbers you get playing around on Entropedia.
 
However, Mardoff got 97-98% tt return with a mod lr32 over million of peds cycled; he was/is getting a lower tt return rate with an imk2 and crit helmet with a higher dpp.

Likewise, why did girts get 90% tt return with imk2 and also 90% tt return with foeripper+evil at a similar professional level.

Both these examples don't make much sense, if we conclude dpp is important.

Your comment requires additional data. Girts also crafts and used to mine. It begs to question whether or not you can be paid back in other professions or if it is all coincidence and this is not possible. People used to say all the time that my hunting losses were paid back in mining and crafting. however, my stats don't support that claim Even though the way things happen with my avatar would go to assume it was possible.
 
Yeah. But...


His hunts would have sucked even harder with a maxed Calytrek or Kallous 7. His eco on the unmaxxed imk2 is ahead of most sib weapons out there.

The points made in the earlier posts were that it was the fact that he wasn't maxed that made his hunts bad, not the lack off dpp due not being maxed. Points made were pretty much "your dpp doesn't matter if your not maxed".

I think Smilgs and company missed the fact That LT talks about his tracked dpp which is better than most sib weapons out there and NOT the numbers you get playing around on Entropedia.

My tracked dpp is 3.08 Which is above average For what the numbers actually tell me on entropia armory (I don't use entropedia because it doesn't have bond theory numbers). According to that, I have 0.7% edge over using vincent with similar configuration but when maxed, that's about a 4.8% edge.
 
Your comment requires additional data. Girts also crafts and used to mine. It begs to question whether or not you can be paid back in other professions or if it is all coincidence and this is not possible. People used to say all the time that my hunting losses were paid back in mining and crafting. however, my stats don't support that claim Even though the way things happen with my avatar would go to assume it was possible.

Well, I guess we will never have enough data, also most data could be contaminated by mining/craft/pking etc to prove anything conclusively. However, Girts used that imk2 and foeripper over a considerable amount of ped cycled, so you'd think it would show some type of difference in return rate, but it didn't. Personally, I owned an imk2 for a year or so, and managed the same return rate with an ml35me+evil amp at a later date. There was 15% difference in dpp. Therefore, I remain dubious over the effect of dpp, but remain open minded on the matter.
 
Well, as long as I have peds or that I haven't walked off the cliff.. I will continue grinding and then i can plot a graph over time.

Good news is that this is all allowing me to advance my statistic database and I intend to make it available on the soon to be entropedia replacement as an advanced feature.
 
Therefore, I remain dubious over the effect of dpp, but remain open minded on the matter.

I'd be surprised if eco didn't matter, but I agree with your way of approaching the matter.
 
Would be nice if entropedia was a bit more advanced. It could allow for inputting mob, armor, evader level. Let you figure out average overkill, regen costs based on dps, average armor decay based on dps/mob type, etc.

Could give a more realistic idea of DPP and actually take into account various mobs instead of an unchanging value.
 
I'd be surprised if eco didn't matter, but I agree with your way of approaching the matter.

From my tests it matters on mobs without a multiplier; a normal Caperon young will loot 0.80-5.00ped no matter the dpp. So, Mindark is correct in that regard, dmg per pec will produce better loot in that regard. It's a question how globals/hofs are produced: if it is random or based on ped cycled etc. Personally, when using an ml35me+evil at 2.450 eco, my return rate was falling off a cliff one week: then I suddenly received 3 hofs in 5 malcs (magically back to 90%). Coincidence? maybe, such loots are so rare it's hard to test.
 
Would be nice if entropedia was a bit more advanced. It could allow for inputting mob, armor, evader level. Let you figure out average overkill, regen costs based on dps, average armor decay based on dps/mob type, etc.

Could give a more realistic idea of DPP and actually take into account various mobs instead of an unchanging value.

Entropia armory allows it. as I have the source, it will he the tool of choice in the entropedia replacement t we are building.

http://Eldslott.org/entropia
 
From my tests it matters on mobs without a multiplier; a normal Caperon young will loot 0.80-5.00ped no matter the dpp. So, Mindark is correct in that regard, dmg per pec will produce better loot in that regard. It's a question how globals/hofs are produced: if it is random or based on ped cycled etc. Personally, when using an ml35me+evil at 2.450 eco, my return rate was falling off a cliff one week: then I suddenly received 3 hofs in 5 malcs (magically back to 90%). Coincidence? maybe, such loots are so rare it's hard to test.

this is demonstrated if you go to that entropia armory and toggle bond theory. It is worth understanding that.. it is the basis for why I chose to use an imk2.

The variability in the equation is what creates a multiplier.. and my guess at the moment is a combination of how often that server or mob is hunted and resource caps. The latter shows itself when ark loot is very unstable following an oratan event that produces a piron rain.
 
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