Why new features are bad for you in Entropia

NoBion

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NoBion Nob Andersen
Hello everyone

I am a concerned player due to the direction the game is going with the new loot crates. I have nothing against the loot crate and the concept of it. my problem is what they reward.

EU is a real economy game, to make money the "house" always have to win in the end... So everytime something is introduced that can increase the effectiveness or "Eco" of your activities, they have to slightly "nerf" things back in balance. In short you either keep up with the trend or you sink behind.

People who used to play the game using the ultimate most economical setup possible were maybe able to get around even back or more. In theory if they were 100% efficient they should get atleast 90% back through time.

Now that borderline have changed. Due to rings and pills, their effience is now able to be higher, thus in theory go so close to 100% return that they have to decrease the current balance in order to keep the same ratio as before.

So what i am trying to conclude is that everyone who plays like they used to do PRE rings and PRE pills will now experience a higher loss since in order to compensate for the higher efficience that can be archieved with rings and pills the balance / loot or whatever have to be lowered... They do not want to introduce stuff that can make people so efficient in the end, that they loose money on it. Therefore through the years the whole game is being re-balanced according to what can be archieved in game.

So either you shell out the money required to get rings and pills or you sink behind and loose more - Hopefully this is not true!

Your cent?
 
exactly why i got rid of my hunting gear.
 
It's a valid thought and something thats been on my mind also.
 
I know someone who has run tests.

The rings and pills, simply do nothing, but give an illusion.

Lets say over XX amount of runs, wearing the crit ring, you will crit more, however your average damage will be down, so it balances it out.

If you wear the evade ring, you will evade more, but be crited by the mob more at larger amounts.

Run some tests yourself.

Keep in mind I am a bugged avatar.
 
i thought the same,the increased eco will for sure not be shelved out of ma-s pockets but from the rest of the playerbase..hence lower average returns
 
I fully appreciate and understand the thread starter's opinion, but the same has been happening throughout Entropia's history.

New Features include:


Removal of Ped from Loot
Regen Mobs
Footguards
Auction Fee 1 Ped -> (0.5 - 100 Ped)
(L) Equipment
Vehicles
Lootable Ammo
Other Planets
Shrapnel

And thats just a few off the top of my head. Rings and the new boxes are just another evolution in the Entropia story. It would be wrong to say that players having a right and left handed ring wont have an advantage, but (L) rings arent too hard to get from a box it is the unlim ones that are rare, and the unlim rings are rare in the same way as many of the good armor, tools were (and still are)

It's just about adapting. Be a Mammal not a Dinosaur. ;)
 
I very much agree with OP, and its something that has been on my mind since the intruduction of the Vamp Cloak. And after that the buff scopes, and sights. And now a ring for each hand, Probably more to come.

So in my opinion to get to the mythic 90-100%, you will need to own a Imp MK II or similar in eco, and ofcourse it needs to be maxed in stats, along with the best UL amp out there, suited for the gun. Get the best buff scopes and sights, and best hunting rings availble for each hand. And on top of that get the vamp cloak and a mod fap.
Happy hunting.

Cheers
 
I know someone who has run tests.

The rings and pills, simply do nothing, but give an illusion.

Lets say over XX amount of runs, wearing the crit ring, you will crit more, however your average damage will be down, so it balances it out.

If you wear the evade ring, you will evade more, but be crited by the mob more at larger amounts.

Run some tests yourself.

Keep in mind I am a bugged avatar.

I have trouble believing anything from someone who believes in unlucky or bugged avatars.
 
I fully appreciate and understand the thread starter's opinion, but the same has been happening throughout Entropia's history.

New Features include:


Removal of Ped from Loot
Regen Mobs
Footguards
Auction Fee 1 Ped -> (0.5 - 100 Ped)
(L) Equipment
Vehicles
Lootable Ammo
Other Planets
Shrapnel

And thats just a few off the top of my head. Rings and the new boxes are just another evolution in the Entropia story. It would be wrong to say that players having a right and left handed ring wont have an advantage, but (L) rings arent too hard to get from a box it is the unlim ones that are rare, and the unlim rings are rare in the same way as many of the good armor, tools were (and still are)

It's just about adapting. Be a Mammal not a Dinosaur. ;)

I like that list but i think the only similarity to this is the mob regeneration that was increased drasticly once...

The thing about these pills and rings are that they leave me and others with some kind of feeling that its a "must have" in order to go out and spend XXX amount of dollars in order to decrease the losses... Hard to formulate but i know alot of people understand what im trying to say :) The other stuff doesent really "affect" your stats and your efficiency out on the field in the same way
 
i dont see any difference in my loot from pre boxes to post boxes. where are your numbers to confirm that anyone got 100% tt back from hunting in the last 2 years using the fabled "most economical" setups?

my loot % returns using non maxed non sib weapons and non maxed L sib weapons has been the same in the last 3 months as it was a year ago.
 
i dont see any difference in my loot from pre boxes to post boxes. where are your numbers to confirm that anyone got 100% tt back from hunting in the last 2 years using the fabled "most economical" setups?

my loot % returns using non maxed non sib weapons and non maxed L sib weapons has been the same in the last 3 months as it was a year ago.

- its a concern, no data's to confirm anything.
- Returns are loosely based on Mindarks own statement about returns of 90% through time. We can assume this should be true if participants are playing 100% efficient according to their level of skill and etc. :)
 
Testing forum on ipad from Ibiza.

I think what constantly goes through my mind is the gamble buying these new items that seem to be updated, superceded, changed on a regular basis. I bought a right and left handed ring (unlimited). I don't hold much confidence though they will hold any value. Unlimited to me is a convenience feature now, no longer a value or investment feature. I'm sure the series two rings will be ready to pop, once these first lot have earned the planned revenue, or run their course.

That's why personally I won't pay big money for unl item, because you only have to look at graph on any item to prove that no item is top dog, or will be top dog anymore.

I do agree though on opportunities to get uber items if prepared to pay for them, like the new galactic a mission.

There still seems to be a hunger and desire for anything new, it's purpose though and long term usefulness is a very thin tightrope and unclear.

I recently lost all interest in MF once I realised that only the 1 ped guns seem to be configured to payout returns. new is good in Eu, as long as there is structure and you understand where you are heading. At times I feel very lost.

I'm still not sure the usefulness of pets, or the reason to skill them. keeping players in the dark, only works some of the time not all of the time. Trust and confidence is key.

Like I said before....we are still here...smiles.

Rick
 
Mindark already makes money off the crates.

Situation before: player buys 1000 ped ammo, gets 1000 ped of ammo ( - fees)

Situation with crates: player buys crates, gets 900 ped of ammo and 100 ped worth of useless pills/pets/L-rings .
most of the L-rings and pills cannot be sold.. meaning... 100 ped go directly into Mindarks pocket (because you cannot turn it back into real money)
 
Mindark already makes money off the crates.

Situation before: player buys 1000 ped ammo, gets 1000 ped of ammo ( - fees)

Situation with crates: player buys crates, gets 900 ped of ammo and 100 ped worth of useless pills/pets/L-rings .
most of the L-rings and pills cannot be sold.. meaning... 100 ped go directly into Mindarks pocket (because you cannot turn it back into real money)
yep. Balancing manager cure for 3% VS 50% on ul sib. Nothing more.
 
If you were getting 90% back long term before now you're already at the low end of the efficiency scale and this won't affect you much anyway.

But, i think the fact that the L rings are nodrop is incredibly stupid, nodrop does not belong in an RCE. Arkadia really screwed things up when they started nodrop here and to all the people who said it was no big deal and wouldn't spread, look where we are now.
 
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If you were getting 90% back long term before now you're already at the low end of the efficiency scale and this won't affect you much anyway.

But, i think the fact that the L rings are nodrop is incredibly stupid, nodrop does not belong in an RCE. Arkadia really screwed things up when they started nodrop here and to all the people who said it was no big deal and wouldn't spread, look where we are now.

There are things planned for these iirc. The accessory aspect of eu is not fully implemented yet.
 
wow not often you see so many people miss the point in one thread.....


To Mega..
Only one of those things will affect you on a day to day hunting basis,regen.ie: higher cost to kill (loots may have been adjusted to compensate but from tests done its only to a very small degree and the test was a little short and basic)

Sidxx
Well your comparison doesn't really count because you said.....
Non maxed non SIB and non maxed (L) sib which means you weren't getting maximum efficiency in either case anyway.I don't think anyway has claimed to get 100%TT back simply due to their hunting set up so thats a moot point to make.

Rick
I dont think the day to day and on going value of the items is the point NoBion was making.
He's talking about the entire userbase suddenly getting more efficient at once(Due to these rings).Akin to suddenly changing the stats on everyone's weapons to make them more eco.

Spawn
That may be a nice initial influx of funds but when that ring is used to cycle massive amounts of peds it can outweigh what was paid for it quite fast depending on the hunter.It's not the unni ammo in question here it's the rings.
They are also a new system that hasnt been fully implemented (ie;they are all unlimited even the (L) ones which will change) so perhaps once the buff stacking/ring combining system comes out they may become tradeable.
I'm just guessing on that but the point bieng its not finalised and anything can happen on that front yet.

Mastermesh
Sorry not a clue what you mean by that.



I think what NoBion is trying to point out-and what has concerned me and obviously others by the thread posters- is that it has suddenly made everyone just that bit more efficient.Defensive rings lowering defensive costs,Attack rings giving better attack stats therefore lowering costs to kill etc.

Now these efficiency changes my be minuscule in the end and barely noticeable on MA's bottom line in which case it's not a problem but the other side of the coin is that they have just made it cheaper for us to do things in our day to day activities.

That isn't going to be a problem when the decay is implemented on the (L) rings as I'm sure they will balance the decay to make up for it and there will always be the unlimited eco stuff for those that can afford it but in the meantime who is paying for this extra efficiency from the people currently using rings.

My guess is not MA.



EDIT: Tinfoil hat on....My returns turned to absolute crap when the boxes started so they may have already made adjustments,it may be migration it may be a normal downturn for me or it may be I'm just seeing things.
 
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wow not often you see so many people miss the point in one thread.....


To Mega..
Only one of those things will affect you on a day to day hunting basis,regen.ie: higher cost to kill (loots may have been adjusted to compensate but from tests done its only to a very small degree and the test was a little short and basic)

Sidxx
Well your comparison doesn't really count because you said.....
Non maxed non SIB and non maxed (L) sib which means you weren't getting maximum efficiency in either case anyway.I don't think anyway has claimed to get 100%TT back simply due to their hunting set up so thats a moot point to make.

Rick
I dont think the day to day and on going value of the items is the point NoBion was making.
He's talking about the entire userbase suddenly getting more efficient at once(Due to these rings).Akin to suddenly changing the stats on everyone's weapons to make them more eco.

Spawn
That may be a nice initial influx of funds but when that ring is used to cycle massive amounts of peds it can outweigh what was paid for it quite fast depending on the hunter.It's not the unni ammo in question here it's the rings.
They are also a new system that hasnt been fully implemented (ie;they are all unlimited even the (L) ones which will change) so perhaps once the buff stacking/ring combining system comes out they may become tradeable.
I'm just guessing on that but the point bieng its not finalised and anything can happen on that front yet.

Mastermesh
Sorry not a clue what you mean by that.



I think what NoBion is trying to point out-and what has concerned me and obviously others by the thread posters- is that it has suddenly made everyone just that bit more efficient.Defensive rings lowering defensive costs,Attack rings giving better attack stats therefore lowering costs to kill etc.

Now these efficiency changes my be minuscule in the end and barely noticeable on MA's bottom line in which case it's not a problem but the other side of the coin is that they have just made it cheaper for us to do things in our day to day activities.

That isn't going to be a problem when the decay is implemented on the (L) rings as I'm sure they will balance the decay to make up for it and there will always be the unlimited eco stuff for those that can afford it but in the meantime who is paying for this extra efficiency from the people currently using rings.

My guess is not MA.



EDIT: Tinfoil hat on....My returns turned to absolute crap when the boxes started so they may have already made adjustments,it may be migration it may be a normal downturn for me or it may be I'm just seeing things.

Purple.....__________________^
er_________________________|
er_________________________|
I mean what he said ------------|
 
I fully appreciate and understand the thread starter's opinion, but the same has been happening throughout Entropia's history.

New Features include:


Removal of Ped from Loot
Regen Mobs
Footguards
Auction Fee 1 Ped -> (0.5 - 100 Ped)
(L) Equipment
Vehicles
Lootable Ammo
Other Planets
Shrapnel

And thats just a few off the top of my head. Rings and the new boxes are just another evolution in the Entropia story. It would be wrong to say that players having a right and left handed ring wont have an advantage, but (L) rings arent too hard to get from a box it is the unlim ones that are rare, and the unlim rings are rare in the same way as many of the good armor, tools were (and still are)

It's just about adapting. Be a Mammal not a Dinosaur. ;)



If you look at any single event out of those mentioned you will see that after years their reception by comunity is rather negative or at best neutral. In moment of introducing those events/changes suppose to improve some flaws in game.
But they are started interfere each with other and cumulate initially small negative efects.

As result game is changing, but in way which is pissing more ppl than please. All in all after all those changes in game mechanics there is less players and MA has less sales each year.

Question is how crazy or mad you have to be as MA owner to not see that and try same things again and again? Things which simply not working.

MA has to stop treat players like idiots. Such changes are alowed in regular MMO's but not in RCE , where average inteligence of players is higher than average among regular players and where everyine play with mose in one hand and calculator in 2nd !!! Increasing tax on players simply canot be hidden...not in this comunity.
 
If you look at any single event out of those mentioned you will see that after years their reception by comunity is rather negative or at best neutral. In moment of introducing those events/changes suppose to improve some flaws in game.
But they are started interfere each with other and cumulate initially small negative efects.

As result game is changing, but in way which is pissing more ppl than please. All in all after all those changes in game mechanics there is less players and MA has less sales each year.

Question is how crazy or mad you have to be as MA owner to not see that and try same things again and again? Things which simply not working.

MA has to stop treat players like idiots. Such changes are alowed in regular MMO's but not in RCE , where average inteligence of players is higher than average among regular players and where everyine play with mose in one hand and calculator in 2nd !!! Increasing tax on players simply canot be hidden...not in this comunity.

Absolutely agree with that. You can talk about fun factor,social aspect and long-term avatar progression. At the end of the day the RCE aspect was what pulled me in when I discovered this mmo. Let me also point out I have been a pc gamer for about 7-9 yrs now and just found this game last year. But to the point, if you take away the RCE or make it start to seem impossible to increase your investment what in the hell is the point to play this game. Making items that can't be tradeable in a real cash economy is nonsense would not work in real life market and doesn't work here. It is a contradiction and is in no way justifiable. Just my opinion though.
 
Yes some missed the point. But in very short summary, If you do not buy ring and pills you are not as "eco" as you were previously due to Loot and etc. Compensating for the higher efficiency people can archieve now due to these new things.

Lets make a scenario.

Player A and player B

Both use the same gear, and both have the same skills. They both kill 100 snables that cost them 100 ped to do, and they both had a return of 90 ped.

Now Player B uses a modified ring with extra critical and evade and reload speed and all those delicious New things. On top of that he eats some pills to regenerate fast enough to eliminate a medical gap.

Player A does not have these newly introduced stuff.

Player A kills 100 snables that cost him 100 ped, but he only got 85 ped in return.

Player B who is buffed by rings and pills, and therefore is more efficient than player A kills 105 snables for same 100 ped because he have more powerfull criticals and etc.
Getting him a return of 90 ped instead.

This calculation does not even take into consideration the savings in defence costs

Point above is that they have to balance the loot to the new "improved" hunting setups to sustain the same income as before. Leaving the ring- and pillless Player A to suffer a higher loss

wow not often you see so many people miss the point in one thread.....


To Mega..
Only one of those things will affect you on a day to day hunting basis,regen.ie: higher cost to kill (loots may have been adjusted to compensate but from tests done its only to a very small degree and the test was a little short and basic)

Sidxx
Well your comparison doesn't really count because you said.....
Non maxed non SIB and non maxed (L) sib which means you weren't getting maximum efficiency in either case anyway.I don't think anyway has claimed to get 100%TT back simply due to their hunting set up so thats a moot point to make.

Rick
I dont think the day to day and on going value of the items is the point NoBion was making.
He's talking about the entire userbase suddenly getting more efficient at once(Due to these rings).Akin to suddenly changing the stats on everyone's weapons to make them more eco.

Spawn
That may be a nice initial influx of funds but when that ring is used to cycle massive amounts of peds it can outweigh what was paid for it quite fast depending on the hunter.It's not the unni ammo in question here it's the rings.
They are also a new system that hasnt been fully implemented (ie;they are all unlimited even the (L) ones which will change) so perhaps once the buff stacking/ring combining system comes out they may become tradeable.
I'm just guessing on that but the point bieng its not finalised and anything can happen on that front yet.

Mastermesh
Sorry not a clue what you mean by that.



I think what NoBion is trying to point out-and what has concerned me and obviously others by the thread posters- is that it has suddenly made everyone just that bit more efficient.Defensive rings lowering defensive costs,Attack rings giving better attack stats therefore lowering costs to kill etc.

Now these efficiency changes my be minuscule in the end and barely noticeable on MA's bottom line in which case it's not a problem but the other side of the coin is that they have just made it cheaper for us to do things in our day to day activities.

That isn't going to be a problem when the decay is implemented on the (L) rings as I'm sure they will balance the decay to make up for it and there will always be the unlimited eco stuff for those that can afford it but in the meantime who is paying for this extra efficiency from the people currently using rings.

My guess is not MA.



EDIT: Tinfoil hat on....My returns turned to absolute crap when the boxes started so they may have already made adjustments,it may be migration it may be a normal downturn for me or it may be I'm just seeing things.
 
This is exactly what I've been saying since the boxes were introduced, and I will add that I feel it's a major problem that we can only get these things by depositing.

To me success in EU means being able to play at a mid to high level without depositing. Without that goal I see no purpose.
 
Do not you think that every time MA come up with something new, we all (and I'm no exception) are happy, and try to buy it, regardless of the cost. Some players loose money, and become angry. Yes, maybe they are unhappy.
But I like it, I welcome all the new ingame, at such times (implementing a new features), many of us have the opportunity to earn some money at the expense of the others many of us! You just have to be in the trend and adapt very-very fast!
About all these pills, buffs and other expenses: By my opinion, all what helps MA to make money - help us, because this is guarantee of game stability and it's evolution. Maybe after another new content (like dwarf gold or fishing), on which players loose enough, MA will decrease withdrawal time? :laugh:
 
MA trashed the economy a long time ago, essentially when they allowed the prices to run away with themselves 6-7 years ago. thats the source of the problems, because when the prices came down eventually alot of people lost alot of value. that means holding stuff isnt a good idea in the RCE, so they pushed L items. but then they control drop rate of these (good tbf), then release ones that compete directly with unL making everything unL pretty worthless (save a handful of high end items). then, after years of stating everything is tradeable, they went back on that and started having items tied to the avatar. there's no real RCE, just paying for ped, the internal market relies on hope rather than utility for price. so yeah, new features, or rather items are bad because they just contine the erosion of what was Entropias unquie selling point. actual new features, as in game play, item types, subsystems, even dare i say story content would be helpful.
 
Whatever we play here now, it's not Project Entropia anymore. Sad part is that 90% of actual players not even remeber what Project Entropia was and knows it only from old screnshots and tales of veterans. Those who could remeber what Project Entropia is are not here anymore in majority.
 
Some of us remember very good...

 
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MA trashed the economy a long time ago, essentially when they allowed the prices to run away with themselves 6-7 years ago. thats the source of the problems, because when the prices came down eventually alot of people lost alot of value. that means holding stuff isnt a good idea in the RCE, so they pushed L items. but then they control drop rate of these (good tbf), then release ones that compete directly with unL making everything unL pretty worthless (save a handful of high end items). then, after years of stating everything is tradeable, they went back on that and started having items tied to the avatar. there's no real RCE, just paying for ped, the internal market relies on hope rather than utility for price. so yeah, new features, or rather items are bad because they just contine the erosion of what was Entropias unquie selling point. actual new features, as in game play, item types, subsystems, even dare i say story content would be helpful.

I got only what I am willing to loose in EU due to a lot of things. I wouldent do like some people. People who has 10.000 USD worth of stuff or more in the game as things are going. Especially when core gameplay (or entertainment from activities) have not been developed in ages as that leaves the RCE the only thing keeping things going - and that is more and more a strive to keep yourself equipped right rather than how you play only (in PE times you could trap mobs with terrain or decoys - run turn shoot then run turn shoot etc.) Nowadays nothing else than standing still pressing auto use tool applies
 
Whatever we play here now, it's not Project Entropia anymore. Sad part is that 90% of actual players not even remeber what Project Entropia was and knows it only from old screnshots and tales of veterans. Those who could remeber what Project Entropia is are not here anymore in majority.

Indeed. Lest we forget...

atraxloot_thenandnow.jpg
 
Indeed. Lest we forget...

atraxloot_thenandnow.jpg

Reminds me of my first global on Berycled i got 20 ped esi and i think a ul sword back in 2006 :yay:

Lucky to get 1 esi a year now :(. Oh the good old tp runs how many times i died trying to get them all getting chased by fearsome atrox atraxs and the like lol.
 
Indeed. Lest we forget...

atraxloot_thenandnow.jpg

If our loot remains until now as on your picture, now we got 5000 Mod FAP ingame which worth +300 PED.
Same with other stuff. Please think about it.
 
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