Re: Misinterpretation of EntropiaLife Rankings

Coelacanth

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Coelacanth Coelacanth Maryka
Re: Misinterpretation of EntropiaLife Rankings

I'm posting this because it's evident many players use the EntropiaLife site to judge other players' abilities or dedication in-game solely by looking at a total loot amount or overall ranking...even veteran players who ought to know better often make illogical assumptions based on the info on that site...so I wanted to point out obvious flaws in this logic.

The ranking of hunters (for example) merely by summing up their "total" loot is in no way a true indication of a hunter's abilities or dedication. One player might get supremely lucky and HOF or even hit an ATH. In terms of loot, that puts that hunter near the top of the loot chart. Does this suddenly indicate that this player is a better hunter or even more committed than the player who grinds out thousands of puny creatures, hunting at their own level of proficiency, as it were? No! It just means the lucky avatar got a big loot, that's all. Luck (or lack thereof) will show a much stronger correlation with loot/rank than dedication or ability.

Furthermore, the rankings show absolutely no correlation between loot or rank and time played in-game or number of mob kills or amount of hunting done during the current time span. Take my own example (not that even that is very relevant, as most of my loot was acquired long before EntropiaLife was created); I supposedly have about 7000 PEDs of total loot, highest loot of 445 PED (my actual highest was around 900 from a JamRaider that left me a pile of oils/robot parts, followed by a 787-PED Atrax HOF, back in ancient Entropia memory). My rank (currently) is 831 of 3662. It's easy to conclude, therefore, that this doesn't seem indicative of a serious hunter.

Now let's dissect this example to demonstrate how flawed those assumptions can be.

1. Most players don't hunt mobs that drop big loots because they may lack the gear for that. They may also mostly hunt solo. This will absolutely affect their rank because total loot will be very low, compared to someone who tanks & grinds out big mobs. Does this mean that player doesn't hunt much? Hell no. That player could very well be hunting thousands of low- to medium-end mobs, even at a brisk killing spree pace, but because the loot will rarely be equivalent to that dropped by the big mobs, or they have bad luck, the resulting total loot rank will never be high.

2. Every year, players like me lose interest in the game and take a hiatus. Their overall rank drops to near the bottom of the list, as expected. Eventually, they may get interested again, login, and hunt like crazy for a few months. In my case, I shoot up the ranks at a rapid pace, going from the bottom to 831 of 3662, for example, in only a month or two. If one only looks at the overall picture however, it's a flawed conclusion that 831 is not a good rank or a dedicated hunter. If you take into account that a hunter might've reached that rank after only a month or two of hunting, that suddenly becomes a more impressive accomplishment.

A perfect personal example of this was a Christmas Merry Mayhem that I participated in about 3 or 4 years ago, I remember it was counting Atrox and Feff/Biff kills (I could be mistaken on the latter). I reached #55 or something in the list of thousands of hunters who participated, if I recall correctly (I don't have the results on my work computer but I saved the spreadsheet on my home PC, but it's not important in making this point). 55 might not seem impressive at all, to the veteran players with uber gear, or to those who rely on the EntropiaLife Bible-of-the-Universe. But factor in that I missed almost half of that event being out of town for Christmas vacation, and reached #55 with nothing but Ghost armor and a decidedly non-uber weapons kit including a Marber Bravo, MK4 and M2875, and that suddenly becomes a much more noteworthy result.

3. The EntropiaLife tracker clearly has missing info, and didn't track anything from years past. My aberration--the 900-PED JamRaider HOF--wasn't tracked by EntropiaLife for whatever reason. I clearly doubt the accuracy of the tool because of this reason; if it "missed" that HOF, how many others has it missed? And due to it being a relatively new tool (for us pre-Gold veterans, it's new), any player using this tool to "judge" or compare a player who pre-dated the tool is being foolish. The tool's data pool lacks older data, misses new data to some degree, and makes no correlations between loot/rank and any other variable.

That all being said, I *do* think the tool is fun to use, and *does* provide some intriguing, compelling, and even helpful information, and I thank the developer for coding it...the programming is amazing to me, and respect to you, my friend! But to all the players who use that tool to judge another player: don't be a fool. Take it with a big grain of salt. A player's rank solely based on loot received makes no correlations and really proves nothing at all--except that they were more fortunate than the names lower on the list. This is the only valid criterion measured by the tool.
 
In hunting it is even more off then the other two professions because of Teaming with others. I would say more then 50% of all my global's were from when I was in team and a lot of those teams were with lower level people hunting with me or just healing me. So the numbers in hunting can be very wrong to what the truth is.
 
I score 99% of my globals in team, though never bothered me what others think of my hunting rank i actually dont even know it.
 
Like any tool, EL if used properly will give you idea about 'commitment' and 'strength' of player.
In most cases it will be pretty accurate reflection of player' activities.
Of course nothing is written in stone and you need to take it with grain of salt.

Would you argue that someone with total 7k loot and someone with 700k are in totally different league ?
It gives some idea of how much one is turning over in game (with some idea of how much money one pump into game).
However it is bad to say that one is more valuable than other based only on activities like that.


Nevertheless, in contrary to what you try to say - you can get picture of activities from looking at tracker.
 
Would you argue that someone with total 7k loot and someone with 700k are in totally different league ?
Most likely in a different league, but one avatar could've hit an ATH while most of the others didn't. Luck skews the results in ways that are not statistically significant. I totally disagree with you because of this reason. :)
 
Most likely in a different league, but one avatar could've hit an ATH while most of the others didn't. Luck skews the results in ways that are not statistically significant. I totally disagree with you because of this reason. :)

That is not a valid argument.

As I said, you need to use EL in proper way....
There is 'Largest Globals' option to see top 20 loots in each category.
It is very easy to see if out of 70k total loot one have 50k in two big HOFs.....

But of course you can disagree if you opt so....
 
It's a great tool for that if used properly.

Rank is however based on number of globals last 30 days and an ath will only give you one point. Perhaps you should read up a bit on how the tool works. There's also plenty of filters in there that can be used.
 
It's a great tool for that if used properly.

Rank is however based on number of globals last 30 days and an ath will only give you one point. Perhaps you should read up a bit on how the tool works. There's also plenty of filters in there that can be used.

So counting the number of globals over the last 30 days is a measure of hunting ability, is it? :scratch2:
 
Aakas keys are "shared loot" when loot is set to each mob. You can run 100 keys a week, and get no credit.

There are many activities in game where Tracker logs nothing.

It is a good tool for base knowledge, but not to create a bias.

An avatar with 70,000 total loot, and a 50,000 ped hof might have 500,000 ped in globals that were not logged.
 
So counting the number of globals over the last 30 days is a measure of hunting ability, is it? :scratch2:

Not ability, volume. If you don't go hunt, don't get globals, and don't have a decent kill count, then how can you justify complaining about loot or drop rates? If you ask me you've done pretty good for such low volume. You complain about not looting nano cubes while hunting bots but no mention about the RX OpTac Harness part you looted a few days ago. I'd rather loot the harness and buy the cubes. :rolleyes:
 
Like any tool, EL if used properly will give you idea about 'commitment' and 'strength' of player.
In most cases it will be pretty accurate reflection of player' activities.
Of course nothing is written in stone and you need to take it with grain of salt.

Would you argue that someone with total 7k loot and someone with 700k are in totally different league ?
It gives some idea of how much one is turning over in game (with some idea of how much money one pump into game).
However it is bad to say that one is more valuable than other based only on activities like that.


Nevertheless, in contrary to what you try to say - you can get picture of activities from looking at tracker.

I agree that EL is a 'guide' of an avatars activity. Because quite frankly if you're banging out a 10K mission on a decent mob the only way to get that mission done is with returns reflected in globals/hofs

Commitment though is a total different matter. I've been skilling pets for months, I hardly hunt now. Based on my EL tracker people would think I've left the game.

EL hunting rank was a good motivator back in the day when 50 ped globals were the minimum and the loot programming was different. Nowadays it doesn't mean much with rubbish baby mob globals, and less normal globals. I think most hunters gave up even caring about the list because it's now old v new.

Rick
 
It sometimes does give the wrong impression if someone has only a few globals and 1 ATH, but to be honest who cares?
Some people follow EL almost like a religion of bragging rights, just to say they have hunted more or been around longer than others.
The fact that Stryker has over 5 Million in globals on EL, doesn't make me happier or give me any better loot than I have now.

Some people know how to use EL in their favor by studying loot patterns with rare loot and hofs, etc... Anything else is pure show
 
I'm posting this because it's evident many players use the EntropiaLife site to judge other players' abilities or dedication in-game solely by looking at a total loot amount or overall ranking...even veteran players who ought to know better often make illogical assumptions based on the info on that site...so I wanted to point out obvious flaws in this logic.

The ranking of hunters (for example) merely by summing up their "total" loot is in no way a true indication of a hunter's abilities or dedication. One player might get supremely lucky and HOF or even hit an ATH. In terms of loot, that puts that hunter near the top of the loot chart. Does this suddenly indicate that this player is a better hunter or even more committed than the player who grinds out thousands of puny creatures, hunting at their own level of proficiency, as it were? No! It just means the lucky avatar got a big loot, that's all. Luck (or lack thereof) will show a much stronger correlation with loot/rank than dedication or ability.

Furthermore, the rankings show absolutely no correlation between loot or rank and time played in-game or number of mob kills or amount of hunting done during the current time span. Take my own example (not that even that is very relevant, as most of my loot was acquired long before EntropiaLife was created); I supposedly have about 7000 PEDs of total loot, highest loot of 445 PED (my actual highest was around 900 from a JamRaider that left me a pile of oils/robot parts, followed by a 787-PED Atrax HOF, back in ancient Entropia memory). My rank (currently) is 831 of 3662. It's easy to conclude, therefore, that this doesn't seem indicative of a serious hunter.

Now let's dissect this example to demonstrate how flawed those assumptions can be.

1. Most players don't hunt mobs that drop big loots because they may lack the gear for that. They may also mostly hunt solo. This will absolutely affect their rank because total loot will be very low, compared to someone who tanks & grinds out big mobs. Does this mean that player doesn't hunt much? Hell no. That player could very well be hunting thousands of low- to medium-end mobs, even at a brisk killing spree pace, but because the loot will rarely be equivalent to that dropped by the big mobs, or they have bad luck, the resulting total loot rank will never be high.

2. Every year, players like me lose interest in the game and take a hiatus. Their overall rank drops to near the bottom of the list, as expected. Eventually, they may get interested again, login, and hunt like crazy for a few months. In my case, I shoot up the ranks at a rapid pace, going from the bottom to 831 of 3662, for example, in only a month or two. If one only looks at the overall picture however, it's a flawed conclusion that 831 is not a good rank or a dedicated hunter. If you take into account that a hunter might've reached that rank after only a month or two of hunting, that suddenly becomes a more impressive accomplishment.

A perfect personal example of this was a Christmas Merry Mayhem that I participated in about 3 or 4 years ago, I remember it was counting Atrox and Feff/Biff kills (I could be mistaken on the latter). I reached #55 or something in the list of thousands of hunters who participated, if I recall correctly (I don't have the results on my work computer but I saved the spreadsheet on my home PC, but it's not important in making this point). 55 might not seem impressive at all, to the veteran players with uber gear, or to those who rely on the EntropiaLife Bible-of-the-Universe. But factor in that I missed almost half of that event being out of town for Christmas vacation, and reached #55 with nothing but Ghost armor and a decidedly non-uber weapons kit including a Marber Bravo, MK4 and M2875, and that suddenly becomes a much more noteworthy result.

3. The EntropiaLife tracker clearly has missing info, and didn't track anything from years past. My aberration--the 900-PED JamRaider HOF--wasn't tracked by EntropiaLife for whatever reason. I clearly doubt the accuracy of the tool because of this reason; if it "missed" that HOF, how many others has it missed? And due to it being a relatively new tool (for us pre-Gold veterans, it's new), any player using this tool to "judge" or compare a player who pre-dated the tool is being foolish. The tool's data pool lacks older data, misses new data to some degree, and makes no correlations between loot/rank and any other variable.

That all being said, I *do* think the tool is fun to use, and *does* provide some intriguing, compelling, and even helpful information, and I thank the developer for coding it...the programming is amazing to me, and respect to you, my friend! But to all the players who use that tool to judge another player: don't be a fool. Take it with a big grain of salt. A player's rank solely based on loot received makes no correlations and really proves nothing at all--except that they were more fortunate than the names lower on the list. This is the only valid criterion measured by the tool.

Before Entropia Life they were called Entropia Tracker, afaik nothing was tracked in 2007, could be it didn't exist yet or all the data was wiped.

Ps. you shouldn't care about anyone's opinion but your own regarding this matter.
 
I

Commitment though is a total different matter. I've been skilling pets for months, I hardly hunt now. Based on my EL tracker people would think I've left the game.

EL hunting rank was a good motivator back in the day when 50 ped globals were the minimum and the loot programming was different. Nowadays it doesn't mean much with rubbish baby mob globals, and less normal globals. I think most hunters gave up even caring about the list because it's now old v new.

Rick

Yes to this :wise: Same for me....although I am getting the hunting urge again :yup:
 
I hunt 90% shared loot now even if I have to solo waves. Makes me happy if people judge me by my entropia life page.
 
Just my 2 pecs.

If there is thread about someone getting huge ass hof while being "noob - according Entropialife.com" it shows that this certain avatar is just very lucky, as it can be told he doesnt hunt very often solo and now one of those few times he/she went solo he/she get that hunting hof.

But this only applies to HUNTING profession (as there are no teams in other professions)

Lately i have seen lots of posts about mining and crafting ATH´s (like the 68k the other day) coming from players who do not play with same level bets (20ped per click on condition crafting for example). So i still very often look at this tracker, to get idea what kind of player the poster is, if i see he has only low level argonaut globals himself and not too many crafting/mining globals i can say, that he is not playing hardcore enough to make such bold statements (40% loot return.. etc).

Surely entropialife.com doesnt cover all globals, hell even the crafting globals, if i click some bp that gives me 5 globals in 7,5seconds, VERY VERY rarely it counts all 5, specially if these globals are same valued (53;54,53,53,259) i can be pretty sure i get 3 globals counted. BUT it gives indication of what player does ingame. Many players have hidden their profiles and claim on forums they are very active in one of the three professions, if you open top100 for last 30days you can see if they are lying or not, as if you are very active, you will be in one of these lists.

EL can be interpreted rather well if you know what you are looking for.
 
Statistic data can be used in many ways, and always depends on who is looking for it! Its a powerful tool if u know how to use it.
 
EL data is a powerful and accurate tool. To people who understand what they are looking at.

First, people who understand it don't give a fuck about monthly hunting ranks so that's not an issue.

Second, as pointed out, it is very easy to check if data is skewed by ATH or whatnot, so that's not an issue.

Third, smart people understand that not all globals track...if I see a guy with a couple hundred globals on rt over the years, I damn well know he had at least 500...because less than 50% actually tracked over the last 5 years...etc. so that's not an issue.

Fourth, we know that team doesn't track so that is not an issue.

If you understand these issues, which you obviously do, then the data is very useful, and I am not sure why you think its not.

Like anything, in the hands of an idiot, yes it is meaningless, but not all of us are idiots about it, and therefore it is a fucking AWESOME tool to decide who gets to say shit and who doesn't. When a guy with 2 Motorhead globals claims loot sucks on them, I know he is an idiot. EVEN when I take into account untracked or team globals, I still know he is an idiot.
 
Just my 2 pecs.

If there is thread about someone getting huge ass hof while being "noob - according Entropialife.com" it shows that this certain avatar is just very lucky, as it can be told he doesnt hunt very often solo and now one of those few times he/she went solo he/she get that hunting hof.

But this only applies to HUNTING profession (as there are no teams in other professions)

Lately i have seen lots of posts about mining and crafting ATH´s (like the 68k the other day) coming from players who do not play with same level bets (20ped per click on condition crafting for example). So i still very often look at this tracker, to get idea what kind of player the poster is, if i see he has only low level argonaut globals himself and not too many crafting/mining globals i can say, that he is not playing hardcore enough to make such bold statements (40% loot return.. etc).

Surely entropialife.com doesnt cover all globals, hell even the crafting globals, if i click some bp that gives me 5 globals in 7,5seconds, VERY VERY rarely it counts all 5, specially if these globals are same valued (53;54,53,53,259) i can be pretty sure i get 3 globals counted. BUT it gives indication of what player does ingame. Many players have hidden their profiles and claim on forums they are very active in one of the three professions, if you open top100 for last 30days you can see if they are lying or not, as if you are very active, you will be in one of these lists.

EL can be interpreted rather well if you know what you are looking for.

EL is the worse indicator as to whether someone is active or not.


You could mine 16 hours per day with a rookie finder and not get a global in a year. Does that make you inactive?

You could mine, without amping (none rookie) and not global for a month or more, mining 16 hours per day, does that make someone inactive?

You could only hunt with your friend in team for a year 16 hours a day, does that make you inactive?

You could craft explosive lv 1's on quantity and not global for a year, 24 hours per day, does that make you inactive?


EL is the WORST indicator of time spent in PE, the ONLY thing it does show, is a time when you are definitely in game. (I.e the time you got the global it recorded)


Rgds

Ace

EDIT: I remember having an argument with someone, that said they could work out what amps someone was using in mining just by their EL stats. What a load of bull.
 
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Many couples hunt almost only in teams, some team names are easy to link or always the same, one could just add that by hand. Other teams are unrecognizable. Crone is not saying this would change the top ten much, but it definately changes the top 1000.
 
In regards to mining, some people mine rare ores at 1000+ depth unamped, and many of these people are seeing much better returns that the D-class miners on FOMA/Hell. Yet the former will never be on EL as rare ores like Rugaritz never "global".

Unfortunately, there are thousands of arrogant/ignorant players and thousands more with huge egos that will look for anything to justify their vanity. You're better off avoiding these people than trying to logically sway them.

EL is helpful in indicating levels of activity. Is it absolute? Very, very far from it.
 
I hunt alot in team. Tracker doesnt cover this at all. Tracker rankings are meaningless. Only Chuck Caly Rocknroll thinks otherwise.
 
EL is the worse indicator as to whether someone is active or not.


You could mine 16 hours per day with a rookie finder and not get a global in a year. Does that make you inactive?

You could mine, without amping (none rookie) and not global for a month or more, mining 16 hours per day, does that make someone inactive?

You could only hunt with your friend in team for a year 16 hours a day, does that make you inactive?

You could craft explosive lv 1's on quantity and not global for a year, 24 hours per day, does that make you inactive?


EL is the WORST indicator of time spent in PE, the ONLY thing it does show, is a time when you are definitely in game. (I.e the time you got the global it recorded)


Rgds

Ace

EDIT: I remember having an argument with someone, that said they could work out what amps someone was using in mining just by their EL stats. What a load of bull.

IMHO activity is not about time online, but about peds cycled.
 
I hunt a lot in team Odysseus Unbound...or OU or in:

Odysseus Unbound on Kerberos
Odysseus Unbound on ambu
Odysseus Unbound on atrox
Odysseus Unbound on rextelum
Odysseus Unbound on Feffox
Odysseus Unbound* What to hunt ?
Odysseus Unbound on proteron's
Odysseus Unbound * Sinner & Emy
Odysseus Unbound Booty Call
Odysseus Unbound Secret Location
Odysseus Unbound PROT PORN HUNT
Odysseus Unbound on trox road
* Odysseus Unbound on the road *
Odysseus Unbound on the road :)
Odysseus Unbound on the road
Odysseus Unbound ATH on LT's!
Odysseus Unbound goes Muck Jaws!
Odysseus Unbound goes Atrox!
Odysseus Unbound goes Feffox!
Odysseus Unbound VS Synergen :D
Odysseus Unbound rocks harder
Odysseus Unbound ROCKS
Odysseus Unbound is wasted
Odysseus Unbound - Happy X-mas-
Odysseus Unbound B-day
Odysseus Unbound * EmyKil *
Odysseus Unbound !
Odysseus Unbound ** EmyJoe **
Odysseus Unbound **EmyJoe**
Odysseus Unbound & Shiva
Odysseus Unbound for Sander
Odysseus Unbound ** EmyOmm **
Odysseus Unbound Sander 27th BD!
Odysseus Unbound Sander 27th BD!
Odysseus Unbound Meet Falx Again
Odysseus Unbound Mulmun pays??
ODYSSEUS UNBOUND on legio
~Odysseus Unbound JJ & Ninja~
~Odysseus Unbound JJ & Ninja~
~Odysseus Unbound - LEVI ATH~
~Odysseus Unbound - LEVI ATH~
~ Odysseus Unbound ~
Odysseus Unbound vs Mulmum Elite
Odysseus Unbound - Jack & Skitzo
Odysseus Unbound Slayer's
Odysseus Unbound Murderer's
Odysseus Unbound ReLoaded
Odysseus Unbound Kil & Joe
Odysseus Unbound Shiva & Kilya
Odysseus Unbound :)

Our society is currently ranked 40..

40 Odysseus Unbound 6 125 12 769 PED 2 083

the team name Odysseus Unbound (last 30 days) at spot 13:

13 Odysseus Unbound 15 842 PED 87

Imagine where I would be if I hunted only solo or if my society would never use different names.
 
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Also, there's some of us that has a good 6-8 years of globals and loot, long before the tracker thing was created.
 
Also, there's some of us that has a good 6-8 years of globals and loot, long before the tracker thing was created.

True, but actions in past shouldnt affect current loot, every time you click, it is a new click a new day. So in many cases the past is not important (loot whiners for example, or those who dont like noobs getting ath´es) because it shows that the player in question is not cycling enough peds at that the time any discussed event actually took place.
 
I am confused.
its a tool, some people use it better than others but no one can use it perfectly.

as for dick swinging who cares? probably need to log out for a while, clean up and find a human to settle down with.

edit: that isnt just directed at the so called 'longs' in game, but also the 'shorts'
 
EL data is a powerful and accurate tool. To people who understand what they are looking at.

First, people who understand it don't give a fuck about monthly hunting ranks so that's not an issue.

Good point; pretty much supports my reason for posting this topic.

EL is the worse indicator as to whether someone is active or not.

EL is the WORST indicator of time spent in PE, the ONLY thing it does show, is a time when you are definitely in game. (I.e the time you got the global it recorded)

Exactly. The purpose of this topic is to highlight the dick-swingers who love to quote EL to put other players down, or feed their own egos--and how the stats don't always support their assumptions.
 
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