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Merry Mayhem Update

Kattfres said:
I'm still interested in what the exploit is.

Would selling points to friends for cheap in order to get bonus rewards be considered exploit?

I can totally see using alts is considered an exploit though, since they aren't allowed in the first place.
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I think player A get`s reward with 10k stars ,afterwards he still have 10k stars in inventory ,player A then trade player B the same stars so he can get reward......and so on ,if now the stars are tradable after claming the reward ?
 
OZtwo said:
Last question here (maybe) is the exploit being that alt ava are created since you get free stars for joining the event? If this is so yes fully support MA here.
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Free Stars? I thought they were only in loot.
 
[FM] said:
I think player A get`s reward with 10k stars ,afterwards he still have 10k stars in inventory ,player A then trade player B the same stars so he can get reward......and so on ,if now the stars are tradable after claming the reward ?
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WTF?! If that is true, then MA really screwed up, lol.
 
[FM] said:
I think player A get`s reward with 10k stars ,afterwards he still have 10k stars in inventory ,player A then trade player B the same stars so he can get reward......and so on ,if now the stars are tradable after claming the reward ?
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So the stars don't disappear after you turn them in, or what?
 
Kattfres said:
So the stars don't disappear after you turn them in, or what?
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I have no ide :) , iam just asuming they stay in inventory , only way i can see how someone explotied it :scratch2:
 
Dorlune said:
Free Stars? I thought they were only in loot.
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Yes that's the question. What I thought as well but exploiting as MA stated would be something like this otherwise I don't see any way to exploit over the cost to collect them?

Also no one answered my last question: Is Universal Ammo not included in ClD payouts? If anything this could be a big exploit by MA.
 
:offtopic:


I can only say "once again" MA = Mega Amateurs ......
They can never think when they design something ...
Getting so tired of this.


The sad thing it cost us Money.
 
valentin said:
:offtopic:


I can only say "once again" MA = Mega Amateurs ......
They can never think when they design something ...
Getting so tired of this.


The sad thing it cost us Money.
Click to expand...

Merry Mayhem 2016 will have different rules, you can bet on that - and if they want to publish them 2 weeks in advance, I think everyone will benefit.
 
[FM] said:
I think player A get`s reward with 10k stars ,afterwards he still have 10k stars in inventory ,player A then trade player B the same stars so he can get reward......and so on ,if now the stars are tradable after claming the reward ?
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It has already been stated earlier in the thread what was done, though I do understand people dont bother to read the entire thread, is lots of ranting and ppl panic and go crazy :laugh:

As I understand it. A player buys cheap stars, turn in for reward. Then abandon mission, restarts mission and buys more stars, turn them in, claim another reward, abandon mission and so on and on and on.

Its a despicable behavior and they should get atleast a tempban and all bonuses should be reclaimed from them.

But, It shouldnt have a major impact on calys economy.
It should only give a diffrent spread, might even be positive, abusers have probably kept the price high giving "poor" players a chance to sell at good prices and keep hunting.
But a kick in the balls for those who buy to win
 
lol :laugh:
 
Too many people who haven't even tried FFA Mayhem jumping into this thread.

What are the possible ways users could be exploiting the generosity of the bonus rewards?

  1. stars are traded to collect bonuses and sold to others afterwards
  2. alt avatar gets mission and hunts for stars, then trades them in for universal ammo bonus
  3. alt avatar gets mission and buys stars to collect universal ammo bonus
  4. quit mission and re-take it to start over and collect bonuses more than once

1 does not work -- you don't get to keep FFA stars that are given to Santa's Little Helper NPC.
2 is not likely with brand new solo avatars. Teaming would work with alt collecting all loot, but UA is not tradeable.
3 seems pointless because Universal Ammo is not tradeable.
4 does not work. I haven't tested (nor will I) but other posts indicate it does not work.
 
Already been said but seems people need refreshing:

People were buying FFA stars at .20 ped/point. The reward for 10.000 points was 2500 ped of Universal Ammo. That means the value of FFA stars should be 0.25 ped.

Doing this once, to receive 500 ped of Free ammo is fine I believe. Abandoning the missions 10 times to get 5 k ped of Free Ammo is bad.

Universal Ammo can not be traded. There were probably no ALT avatars. FFA stars disappear when handed in.

I believe those who have not traded in their stars will probably be allowed to do so but knowing MA and knowing they'll have to probably count by hand the number of times each avatar handed it in (yes, MA really has a problem with creating counters) will mean those prizes will be received in February-March.
 
so what becomes of this "stolen" ammo?

if i read correctly it came out of cld payouts.. which explains why clds don't pay out as much as they should during these events, but that is another discussion.

lets say MA discovers these alt accounts that abused the cld owners generosity, and deletes the accounts, does MA keep these peds? from what i understand, players could buy points cheap on the street for 10 pec per point so thats 1k ped turned into 2.5k ped, each alt gets 150$ lets say 1 person does it with 30 alt avatars in 10 days , thats 4500$ or 45k ped. lets say 50 people do this, thats 225,000$ MA/FPC/WhatEverTheyCallThemSelvesToday recovers. great but where do the CLD owners stand in this? its not stated if 25% (56,250$) goes to them or if MA keeps the lump sum cuz fuck you they can do what ever they want.

:scratch2::dunno::scratch2:
 
sidxx said:
great but where do the CLD owners stand in this? its not stated if 25% (56,250$) goes to them or if MA keeps the lump sum cuz fuck you they can do what ever they want.
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CLD owners stay exactly where Planet Calypso PP stays (yes, they are almost Mindark, but not exactly). If you remember, 50% of Calypso income goes to MA, and 50% is split between PC-PP and CLD owners, so all are in same boat. Ammo wasn't taken from "CLD payouts", it was taken from PC-PP income, so MA and CLDs received proportionally less too.

Now, if PC-PP claims back the theoretical $225,000, it all goes backward, and MA gets a half, and PC-PP and CLDs split equally the other half.

Expect like a 20 ped payout on CLD if that happens :)
 
I guess...

I don't understand the "they bought it for less than the market rate" exploit argument. This sounds like the same argument you hear at Nea's or in trade channel about sweat. Don't sell your sweat for 1.5k! Only sell it for 2.5k! Why does the independent sale of one item by one avatar to another avatar constitute an exploit. If player A agrees to buy what player B agrees to sale at a given price, the rest is irrelevant. Glad I stayed out of it though apparently. There must be more to this than they have said thus far, because MA did not set a specific price for the value of stars. That is determined by the market. It doesn't have to do with the buying of the stars it has to do with the abandoning of the missions or something along that line.

Brick
 
Okey... I'm not on Calypso, not in to the event, so I lack a bit of information about all this.

But what I understand you will find "stars" that you can exchange for ammunition in some-kind of quest? And some people have misused this quest to get more free-ammo than they was supposed to get?

I see some people is asking why and how this could have so great impact on the CLD returns, but I guess all rewards in quests comes directly from the pocket/profit from the planet-partner. So with a huge amount of free-ammo (peds) being payed by the planet-partner, it have a big impact on the planet-partners profit and also on the CLD payouts.
 
jaydub said:
...
Click to expand...

One line of reasoning is that the system was in trouble from pretty much anybody handing in stars (or getting them in solo), because the drop rate was much too high. According to some, it has been the higher levels which have dropped more.
The result was that for 10k points you got a total of 2500 peds of UA, but hunting losses to get 10k points was on average less than this. Put simply: the payout was more than 100% from taking part.

This would make blaming some kind of exploit a diversionary excuse - a convenient blaming of people who may have tried to find ways of getting the bonuses themselves more than once each. This would be part of the story, yes, but not the main part!

The second story is about how CLD payouts could suffer. Potentially, MA have been confusing revenue with profits, and although CLD payouts should be a straight share of revenue itself, maybe they haven't been.
[A comparison situation to CLD payouts should be like asking how much VAT a trader has to pay. It is based on revenue, yes revenue, not on whatever profit the trader makes.] Not much has been made of this part of the story so far, however....

So, what is the CLD payout then? - maybe I'll log on to find out, or just go to bed and wait for news in the morning...
 
jaydub said:
I don't understand the "they bought it for less than the market rate" exploit argument. This sounds like the same argument you hear at Nea's or in trade channel about sweat. Don't sell your sweat for 1.5k! Only sell it for 2.5k! Why does the independent sale of one item by one avatar to another avatar constitute an exploit. If player A agrees to buy what player B agrees to sale at a given price, the rest is irrelevant. Glad I stayed out of it though apparently. There must be more to this than they have said thus far, because MA did not set a specific price for the value of stars. That is determined by the market. It doesn't have to do with the buying of the stars it has to do with the abandoning of the missions or something along that line.

Brick
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The exploit would be IF they could abandon the mission and get more free ammo. But I hear that it does not work. We will not get confirmation from any player that it did because then it would be admission to the exploit. I personally would have never thought to do this but apparently others have.
 
jetsina said:
One line of reasoning is that the system was in trouble from pretty much anybody handing in stars (or getting them in solo), because the drop rate was much too high. According to some, it has been the higher levels which have dropped more.
The result was that for 10k points you got a total of 2500 peds of UA, but hunting losses to get 10k points was on average less than this. Put simply: the payout was more than 100% from taking part.
Click to expand...

Yes, at least for me doing FFA 1, the payout has been more than the cost, but I have done absolutely nothing different from any other event (or general hunting for that matter) than I normally do. I buy guns, shoot, kill, repeat for an hour. Repair armor and amp, check auction for more cheap guns. Rinse and repeat. I don't even have a ModMerc or other gun that can apparently get secret higher bonus attack rate by using reload-speed buffs.

I don't believe drop-rate is the issue... If the drop rate for stars is too high, how is that an exploit by me? Am I not supposed to take part in the event? Was I not supposed to collect the ammo rewards? Remember, the original release had incorrect reward numbers and it was subsequently updated and corrected.
Also, the first day of Gold Rush on Arkadia had insanely high arkoin drops, so does that mean that any of us that hunted then were exploiters? If the drop rate on arkadia was corrected, why hasn't the drop rate for stars been correct?

From the announcement, I considered the UA bonuses to be enticement to participate for consolation prize while knowing I didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting anything decent in either category based on over 7 years active play (I was away from game 2 years).
 
I turned in all of my 10k FFA points got no ammo, Guess I will log out and wait until I get my 2500 ped in ammo. Will see how long that takes. Until then I could use a break from cycling any PED....
 
jetsina said:
One line of reasoning is that the system was in trouble from pretty much anybody handing in stars (or getting them in solo), because the drop rate was much too high. According to some, it has been the higher levels which have dropped more.
The result was that for 10k points you got a total of 2500 peds of UA, but hunting losses to get 10k points was on average less than this. Put simply: the payout was more than 100% from taking part.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly! there was a rain of 500 - 1k points stars!

SnowLeopard said:
If the drop rate for stars is too high, how is that an exploit by me? Am I not supposed to take part in the event? Was I not supposed to collect the ammo rewards?
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The exploit is not the high drop rate, that`s MA fault.
The exploit is people making alts to collect the reward by using that shitload of stars which they got with the main ava.
And for the ones in denial, think about this: only one day of hunting argo young (or whatever low level mob with stable 90% returns) with a low level alt will convert 2500 peds worth of UA in 2k+ pure ped.
That`s 200 USD in one day.
 
jetsina said:
The second story is about how CLD payouts could suffer. Potentially, MA have been confusing revenue with profits, and although CLD payouts should be a straight share of revenue itself, maybe they haven't been.
[A comparison situation to CLD payouts should be like asking how much VAT a trader has to pay. It is based on revenue, yes revenue, not on whatever profit the trader makes.] Not much has been made of this part of the story so far, however....

So, what is the CLD payout then? - maybe I'll log on to find out, or just go to bed and wait for news in the morning...
Click to expand...

This i think is the true revelation of this years mm. It seems Mindark understands something different under revenue then players would have assumed or there has been an adjustment in internal cashflow where mindark deducts the costs of planetpartners 'before' they receive any payment making their revenue in effect 'less' - this would explain a decline in cld payouts over time even though the participant numbers have been reported to be increasing.
 
Count0 said:
Yes, exactly! there was a rain of 500 - 1k points stars!



The exploit is not the high drop rate, that`s MA fault.
The exploit is people making alts to collect the reward by using that shitload of stars which they got with the main ava.
And for the ones in denial, think about this: only one day of hunting argo young (or whatever low level mob with stable 90% returns) with a low level alt will convert 2500 peds worth of UA in 2k+ pure ped.
That`s 200 USD in one day.
Click to expand...

While these are exploits, the loss would have been the same for planet partner calypso if points had been sold on the market to real players - they just completely forgot that in ffa there is no point for people to keep their stars past 10k if they cant estimate a reasonable chance on event rewards.
 
Great Disappointment ....First of all the information about bonus was wrong from start. I calculated 0.10 pec per star from bonus conform the oficial event information,i calculated 25k points for 2500 peds so 0.10pec per star and not 0.25pec per star like they said and i find out after: for 500 points you take 50 ped, for 2000 points you take 200ped etc etc, so i didnt take any bonus becouse i sold them in auction with between 0.15 and 0.20. With a simple fhrase like 'a bonus star value is 0.25 pec'' everything could be allright for all players. So loss for me . I prepair myself for the event, chip in few k, bought guns and gear for the event..few more k, lost one week of Christmas hunting like 10-12 hours a day....and got back...what? i didnt got back not even a litle hope to win , or be in a fair event even if i loose but to be happy i participate in a fair with 100% sure rules who wont be changed in time of the event or something...!!!!! I'm not desperate to win, but i want to participate in a event where is fairness and strict rules for the entire event. You cant change the rules of the game in the middle of the game. I am so very disappointed and frustrated , i cant find my words to tell. A big mistake from who organise this and some idiots exploiters players who want to make peds in any way posible . When i read the Mayhem update yerstaday i stop hunting in a sec and start to sell everything loot gear stars skills back to auction to be able to recover something from my loss. Nobady can be in a event where the rules can be changed in time of the event. Is just a loose loose situation and only the few super gear players will win , like always and like every year. A player or a team of players can win agaist these super gear players like MMS or @hunter@ or super skilled players whit mm's and mod faps etc, only if they can organise themselfs before the event according to the strict and riguros event rules, and to be able to take special measures and tactics to defeat these kind of players. If you change the rules in time of the event you can cut down almost everybody, less the guys who have unlimited resurses. You guys disappointed the honest players . That was my Mayhem event story!!! Thx MA!!!
 
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John B Knight said:
This i think is the true revelation of this years mm. It seems Mindark understands something different under revenue then players would have assumed or there has been an adjustment in internal cashflow where mindark deducts the costs of planetpartners 'before' they receive any payment making their revenue in effect 'less' - this would explain a decline in cld payouts over time even though the participant numbers have been reported to be increasing.
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I don't think this is something new, It's the logical way to do it. If a planet runs a event and gives away items with peds value, the planet should also pay for the peds, not MA and the rest of the planets.
 
billairboy said:
I don't think this is something new, It's the logical way to do it. If a planet runs a event and gives away items with peds value, the planet should also pay for the peds, not MA and the rest of the planets.
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Thats right but usually such costs are deducted from the revenue and whats left over is the profit - if you deduct costs before accounting the revenue thats 'intelligent accounting'.
 
John B Knight said:
Thats right but usually such costs are deducted from the revenue and whats left over is the profit - if you deduct costs before accounting the revenue thats 'intelligent accounting'.
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It depends, in this case it's MA that handle the PED payouts, so it's first a cost for MA and they probably take it from the revenue Calypso normally gets.
 
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