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Help: indoor untaxed mining?

A

awe

Deactivated Account
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
128
While the grinding halls of the asteroid, former CND has it's charms; I'm actually looking for a new indoor mining location. Preferably untaxed.
So what what would be my options?
 
It's strange to see so little monria globals compared to underground FOMA ones. One should think that the less payed to LA owners would attract them. :scratch2:
Or do I miss something? :scratch2:
 
Probably mainly a difference in how long it takes to fly to monria from caly versus foma
 
awe said:
It's strange to see so little monria globals compared to underground FOMA ones. One should think that the less payed to LA owners would attract them. :scratch2:
Or do I miss something? :scratch2:
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I believe most seasoned miners will tell you that taxes make no noticeable difference in your return, so I think most people are going to mine where 1) they can get good MU ores, and 2) there is a convenient market for said ores, or at least easy transport back to Caly.
 
syntax said:
I believe most seasoned miners will tell you that taxes make no noticeable difference in your return, so I think most people are going to mine where 1) they can get good MU ores, and 2) there is a convenient market for said ores, or at least easy transport back to Caly.
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7 PED teleport fee back to Caly from Monria, same as from FOMA.
 
Ape Drape said:
7 PED teleport fee back to Caly from Monria, same as from FOMA.
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Once you get to the station, yes. What about the warp flight there? EFA makes daily round trips between Ark, RT, and Caly for 7 PED. Other locations, such as Monria and FOMA, are special request and are 20 PED, unless you can find someone to split it with you.

So I know if I get some good ores on Ark or RT, I can easily get them back to Caly for 14 PED and I already know what time. Other locations, not as convenient.
 
syntax said:
Once you get to the station, yes. What about the warp flight there? EFA makes daily round trips between Ark, RT, and Caly for 7 PED. Other locations, such as Monria and FOMA, are special request and are 20 PED, unless you can find someone to split it with you.

So I know if I get some good ores on Ark or RT, I can easily get them back to Caly for 14 PED and I already know what time. Other locations, not as convenient.
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What are you talking about? In most cases, you won't be carrying stackables to Monria/FOMA, and a quad flight there basically only costs thruster decay (0.10 PED) to enter space + some few PECs of fuel. To get back to Calypso with stackables you only need to pay 7 PED teleportation fee which is available at any time. It is much cheaper and more convenient compared to travelling between Rocktropia or Arkadia with a mothership.
 
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PkmX said:
What are you talking about? In most cases, you won't be carrying stackables to Monria/FOMA, and a quad flight there basically only costs thruster decay (0.10 PEC) to enter space + some few PECs of fuel. To get back to Calypso with stackables you only need to pay 7 PED teleportation fee which is available at any time. It is much cheaper and more convenient compared to travelling between Rocktropia or Arkadia with a mothership.
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Except when on Monria you have to deal with the worst mining returns in the entire game. It's like 10x harder to find finds then normal indoors, and half the avg size of the finds. Not to mention worthless materials to be mining for.

It is unanimous that loot is shit there for hunting and mining.

http://monria.com/forum/index.php?threads/whats-wrong-with-mining-on-monria.1286/
http://monria.com/forum/index.php?threads/bad-monria-mining.1057/
http://monria.com/forum/threads/mining-on-monria.1324/
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254684-Monria-Mining-First-impressions

Monria may even ban you for mining
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254812-Account-locked-for-mining-Monria
 
Venture Bros said:
Except when on Monria you have to deal with the worst mining returns in the entire game. It's like 10x harder to find finds then normal indoors, and half the avg size of the finds. Not to mention worthless materials to be mining for.

It is unanimous that loot is shit there for hunting and mining.

http://monria.com/forum/index.php?threads/whats-wrong-with-mining-on-monria.1286/
http://monria.com/forum/index.php?threads/bad-monria-mining.1057/
http://monria.com/forum/threads/mining-on-monria.1324/
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254684-Monria-Mining-First-impressions

Monria may even ban you for mining
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254812-Account-locked-for-mining-Monria
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lots of claims, lots of hate, very little facts...

I think all users on PCF can see you hate Monria (damn like 10 posts about it from you today already), but OP asked for untaxed indoor mining spot and i think Monria is the only spot like this.
 
PkmX said:
What are you talking about? In most cases, you won't be carrying stackables to Monria/FOMA, and a quad flight there basically only costs thruster decay (0.10 PEC) to enter space + some few PECs of fuel. To get back to Calypso with stackables you only need to pay 7 PED teleportation fee which is available at any time. It is much cheaper and more convenient compared to travelling between Rocktropia or Arkadia with a mothership.
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I... did not know this. :ahh:

I haven't been to Monria yet, and haven't been to FOMA since it was CND, I guess I forgot that you could TP directly and not have to fly back to the station. Makes sense now. :silly2:
 
whiteknut said:
lots of claims, lots of hate, very little facts...

I think all users on PCF can see you hate Monria (damn like 10 posts about it from you today already), but OP asked for untaxed indoor mining spot and i think Monria is the only spot like this.
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I posted other peoples opinions this time, rather then posting my own. You can argue with me all you like about other peoples opinions it won't change them.


OP, taxes don't affect mining. Normal taxes don't even affect the player unless over 5%, just look into how they work.

Even if they did, you'd make more mining indoors anywhere other then Monria due to the lack of high MU materials (assuming monria has the same returns as elsewhere, which it doesn't)
 
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Venture Bros said:
I posted other peoples opinions this time, rather then posting my own. You can argue with me all you like about other peoples opinions it won't change them.
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2x lvl 5 amps or 300 PED (these opinions) cannot give appropriate results on Monria.
You need atleast 5x more PED in turnover there, compared to any planet
So unamped for many planets would be enough about 5-10k PED in turnover, on Monria (also FOMA, AU and HELL) your turnover must be 25-50k PED to achieve appropriate results. This is just indoor mining logic.

Single advantage - Monria is tax free, compared to all other indoor mining logic places.
 
Monria is the only untaxed indoors mining.

You can contact me ingame if you want some advices & infos.

Venture Bros said:
I posted other peoples opinions this time, rather then posting my own. You can argue with me all you like about other peoples opinions it won't change them.


OP, taxes don't affect mining. Normal taxes don't even affect the player unless over 5%, just look into how they work.

Even if they did, you'd make more mining indoors anywhere other then Monria due to the lack of high MU materials (assuming monria has the same returns as elsewhere, which it doesn't)
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I am very used to indoors mining, and I can confirm average MU on Monria is very competitive with foma/hell and sometime even better.
 
crazyshadow said:
Monria is the only untaxed indoors mining.

You can contact me ingame if you want some advices & infos.



I am very used to indoors mining, and I can confirm average MU on Monria is very competitive with foma/hell and sometime even better.
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From what items give MU on monria? What ores are over 200% is there even a single one? CND/FOMA have many rare and high MU ores but I never see any on Monria being found, at least not in global sizes.
 
Venture Bros said:
From what items give MU on monria? What ores are over 200% is there even a single one? CND/FOMA have many rare and high MU ores but I never see any on Monria being found, at least not in global sizes.
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200% ores indoors... most indoors dont have such high MU rare ores but from the ones you listed its in a 0,5% to 1,5% proportion so over 100 claims you get one...That is NOT interesting at all and they are always mixed with crap so your average MU still suck when you hit one.

It become interesting when you can hit them over and over again multiple time a day. For example Monria have some:

- Energized Crystal (116%)
- Fire Root (113%)
- Frigulite (120%)

And those a bit rarer:
- Dianthus (180%)
- Typonolic (155%)


Some of them are in an impressive proportion when you mine at the right place so you can end up with a very good relative MU.

Its similar to the well-known Ignisium spot in the AUD, except its not mixed in a 20%Igni/80%tt food proportion.
 
crazyshadow said:
200% ores indoors... most indoors dont have such high MU rare ores but from the ones you listed its in a 0,5% to 1,5% proportion so over 100 claims you get one...That is NOT interesting at all and they are always mixed with crap so your average MU still suck when you hit one.

It become interesting when you can hit them over and over again multiple time a day. For example Monria have some:

- Energized Crystal (116%)
- Fire Root (113%)
- Frigulite (120%)

And those a bit rarer:
- Dianthus (180%)
- Typonolic (155%)


Some of them are in an impressive proportion when you mine at the right place so you can end up with a very good relative MU.

Its similar to the well-known Ignisium spot in the AUD, except its not mixed in a 20%Igni/80%tt food proportion.
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All indoor mining is garbage.

But I will say that Monria is most definitely competitive with the others.

Also in case anyone didn't know, you can log out while in your Quad (about 1/3 of the way to Monria from Caly) and you will be instantly ported to Monria SS. It's an extremely short flight. Just wait till you cross the server zone (screen will lag for 1/2 second) then log out.

Zoldenite, which you will find a LOT of in Monria, can sell upwards of 120% last I checked. Simple supply and demand. Not many people mine on Monria, yet people are still crafting those Monria finders/amps etc.
 
Venture Bros said:
Except when on Monria you have to deal with the worst mining returns in the entire game. It's like 10x harder to find finds then normal indoors, and half the avg size of the finds. Not to mention worthless materials to be mining for.

It is unanimous that loot is shit there for hunting and mining.

http://monria.com/forum/index.php?threads/whats-wrong-with-mining-on-monria.1286/
http://monria.com/forum/index.php?threads/bad-monria-mining.1057/
http://monria.com/forum/threads/mining-on-monria.1324/
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254684-Monria-Mining-First-impressions

Monria may even ban you for mining
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?254812-Account-locked-for-mining-Monria
Click to expand...


Dude... the mining incident was when Monria just opened and it was bugged. That was cleared up rather rapidly. To say that mining there gets you banned is a bald faced lie. And for what it's worth I'm as far from a MA fanboi as you can get.
 
Ape Drape said:
Dude... the mining incident was when Monria just opened and it was bugged. That was cleared up rather rapidly. To say that mining there gets you banned is a bald faced lie. And for what it's worth I'm as far from a MA fanboi as you can get.
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I never said mining there gets you banned. I simply posted a thread about someone who did get banned there.
 
awe said:
I know this is what most people (myself included) think. But is it true?
What I mean to say, are there any experiments that show that claim size is smaller on taxed land. 5% would be noticeable enough.
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Talk to Taco or Hammer about taxes, they can explain it far better then I. But basically as long as tax is under 5%, MA loses money to the land holder, NOT THE PLAYER.

Hard to explain, don't argue with me about it.
 
It shouldn't be hard to do as long as there are enough runs in an area set to no tax or taxed, but a landowner would need to be up for cooperation on this and interested. That might be tough to do.

I'd generally want to see a single run untaxed, another run taxed at the same area, and so on. That alternation of the roughly paired treatments would ideally help account for variability over time. All you'd need to do is determine your TT per find and do a basic t-test on taxed vs. untaxed claim sizes. Looking for say a 5% difference in claim size shouldn't require a huge sample size. I'm looking at needing several hundred claims to detect if finder decay affects claim size, so it should take quite fewer claims to reach sufficient statistical power for a tax test.

Short of an actual experiment, I personally don't buy that taxes don't affect TT because those PED need to come from somewhere. I highly doubt MA is willing to give up profits by giving landowners a piece of their pie, but rather say they'll take their own normal piece, while landowners can take a portion of what's left after MA's take. I could be wrong on that, but I'd want to see some good data at that point.
 
kingofaces said:
It shouldn't be hard to do as long as there are enough runs in an area set to no tax or taxed, but a landowner would need to be up for cooperation on this and interested. That might be tough to do.

I'd generally want to see a single run untaxed, another run taxed at the same area, and so on. That alternation of the roughly paired treatments would ideally help account for variability over time. All you'd need to do is determine your TT per find and do a basic t-test on taxed vs. untaxed claim sizes. Looking for say a 5% difference in claim size shouldn't require a huge sample size. I'm looking at needing several hundred claims to detect if finder decay affects claim size, so it should take quite fewer claims to reach sufficient statistical power for a tax test.

Short of an actual experiment, I personally don't buy that taxes don't affect TT because those PED need to come from somewhere. I highly doubt MA is willing to give up profits by giving landowners a piece of their pie, but rather say they'll take their own normal piece, while landowners can take a portion of what's left after MA's take. I could be wrong on that, but I'd want to see some good data at that point.
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I agree. The experiment is easy and shouldn't cost too much to execute.

First, use a F-211 (L) to mine enmatter unamped on non-taxed land and record the size of each 1 PEC TT enmatter (Crude Oil, Force Nexus, Sweetstuff) claim. This finder is chosen because it is the lowest decay (1.306 PEC) non-beginner finder current available with 55m search radius.

Next, do the same with a TM8 (4.89 PEC decay). Compared to the previous setup, this one requires ~7% more (54.89 PEC vs 51.306 PEC) TT cost per drop.

Finally, use the same setup as first but mine on heavily taxed land area, and compare the result.

To avoid skewing the data due to minis and globals, we should classify each claim into their respective loot classes (see: falkao's mining loot analysis) and compare the average size of each loot class. Note that we only recorded 1 PEC TT enmatter because we don't know how exactly rounding works on larger TT resources, and they seem to mess up the loot classes, so it is better to be conservative here.

It shouldn't take a large number of records to see if there are any statistically significant differences between each setup.
 
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I would love to see that like I said I have no idea why pen how but taco and others explained it before to me and I believe it from my hunting experiences on RE and underground.
 
PkmX said:
I agree. The experiment is easy and shouldn't cost too much to execute.

First, use a F-211 (L) to mine enmatter unamped on non-taxed land and record the size of each 1 PEC TT enmatter (Crude Oil, Force Nexus, Sweetstuff) claim. This finder is chosen because it is the lowest decay (1.306 PEC) non-beginner finder current available with 55m search radius.

Next, do the same with a VRX3K (5.01 PEC decay). Compared to the previous setup, this one requires 7% more (55.01 PEC vs 51.306 PEC) TT cost per drop.

Finally, use the same setup as first but mine on heavily taxed land area, and compare the result.

To avoid skewing the data due to minis and globals, we should classify each claim into their respective loot classes (see: falkao's mining loot analysis) and compare the average size of each loot class. Note that we only recorded 1 PEC TT enmatter because we don't know how exactly rounding works on larger TT resources, and they seem to mess up the loot classes, so it is better to be conservative here.

It shouldn't take a large number of records to see if there are any statistically significant differences between each setup.
Click to expand...

I've already been working on the finder decay question a bit with basically no difference in loot size due to finder decay, but I'm doing a bunch more drops to put the idea to rest. I wouldn't worry about just 1 PEC items though for the tax testing. It would take a bit longer to get enough claims of specific resources, and the averages should still separate out with higher TT items unless we're talking about the extremely high ones. I'll do a quick power analysis on my current data to see what I'd need to detect a 5% difference when I get back home, but the difference would be almost 10 times bigger than what I'm currently looking for with finder decay. That's why I wouldn't worry drilling down too deep into specific things like loot class and just stick with the TT amount for each claim.
 
kingofaces said:
I've already been working on the finder decay question a bit with basically no difference in loot size due to finder decay, but I'm doing a bunch more drops to put the idea to rest. I wouldn't worry about just 1 PEC items though for the tax testing. It would take a bit longer to get enough claims of specific resources, and the averages should still separate out with higher TT items unless we're talking about the extremely high ones. I'll do a quick power analysis on my current data to see what I'd need to detect a 5% difference when I get back home, but the difference would be almost 10 times bigger than what I'm currently looking for with finder decay. That's why I wouldn't worry drilling down too deep into specific things like loot class and just stick with the TT amount for each claim.
Click to expand...

The reason why I want to classify them into loot classes is avoiding influence of minis and globals, but if you simply exclude those bigger claims in the calculation of average claim size, it should be fine. However, to be on the safe side, we should try to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Would you mind sharing the data, or maybe pm me if you don't want to share them publicly?
 
I love the thought that someone only likes to mine indoors :D A fair weathered miner! I have also have only been using the indoor arena in this weather...

Sorry.. do carry on!
 
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