Petition to remove Explosive BPs (or change them) - Part 2

Sorry but this sounds like a gambler here justifying way he is putting so much money into it and just can't seem to stop depositing for that chance to win it big :)

Despite how much you will hate to hear it. I profit, which requires zero deposits.
I only use the BP for skills and residue for crafted goods in all honesty.
And I am on the houses money but 10's of k.
 
add me

Add me to the patition, signing to have the BP changed.

Change the BP, maybe it could use shrapnel+dung+oil+TT crap. Or ANYTHING from the community!!! Right now the BP is just a gambling or slot machine and does NOT help the Entropy community.
 
Explosive BP gamblers dont have nothing to do with incetive to hunters to buy expensive crafted (L) weapons with MU 150% or more.
Even if you remove explosive BP from game fact remain that MU of resources and crafted items is too high to use them so no incentive again.
On other side is good that residue can be obtained cheap almost with no MU so amps can be crafted as cheap as possible.
Hyperinflation cant be riht cure to solve stagnating economy.
We need other methods to earn instead to live dependent on high MU.
We need also get EU to cost less to play if we want more players.
As explosive BP gamblers represent steady losings there is no need to remove it. They have two functions - they finance MA and they provide cheap residue. If we remove ex BP MA will take their earnings from hunting mining and crafting even more as is now.
Yes we need miracle and that mean everyone need to step down from expectations of high earning (and high MU).
Whatever - MA could stop to take 5% and think to take 3% in everything (loot, crafting, mining) and so should resellers, LA owners, miners, hunters, crafters etc.


Only replying because I have a lot of respect for you, who has hunted/grinded more than I'll ever do in a life time!

I see your point, however it omits one very simple and basic logic. This game has a small "gambling-addicted player base" and this player base has over the years helped you and I get OK returns in hunting, mining, etc.

These "gamblers" would, knowing they can and will lose big, spend as much as it takes to have a chance to hit it big. And as a result the "loot pool" gets filled, and more importantly, other players can seek out and find materials that are needed and sell them with some mark-up, thus covering some of the % they have to pay MindArk for playing the game.

Now, by making it so all items are from TT there is NOTHING used from, and given to, the community for the chance to hit it big.

Explosive BP is and will kill Entropia if not changed. Why do I know this? Because what makes Entropia a good game is the community. And the Explosive BP uses NOTHING from the community and gives very little back to the community.

Simple logic, Explosive BP does not contribute to Entropia!!!

IMHO whoever in MA invented the Explosive BP should be fired, it has hurt the Entropia Universe THAT much.
 
Explosive BP gamblers dont have nothing to do with incetive to hunters to buy expensive crafted (L) weapons with MU 150% or more.
Even if you remove explosive BP from game fact remain that MU of resources and crafted items is too high to use them so no incentive again.
On other side is good that residue can be obtained cheap almost with no MU so amps can be crafted as cheap as possible.
Hyperinflation cant be riht cure to solve stagnating economy.
We need other methods to earn instead to live dependent on high MU.
We need also get EU to cost less to play if we want more players.
As explosive BP gamblers represent steady losings there is no need to remove it. They have two functions - they finance MA and they provide cheap residue. If we remove ex BP MA will take their earnings from hunting mining and crafting even more as is now.
Yes we need miracle and that mean everyone need to step down from expectations of high earning (and high MU).
Whatever - MA could stop to take 5% and think to take 3% in everything (loot, crafting, mining) and so should resellers, LA owners, miners, hunters, crafters etc.

See the only issue here is that as you say MU isn't important yet you like how EP give you low MU in residue so that you can make a big profit on AMPs which really is the only item that is worth crafting these days due to the EP killing the market.

The good news here is that I think MA is trying to make the game cheaper to play for all. The only issue is that to do this MA will need to kill the RCE idea of the game which as we all can see they are doing very slowly. So yes you may have your game soon cheap to play but most likely for that we will be shifting over to a subscription based game. Is that what you would like?


An other issue is that MA may be slowly shifting away from EU since we have seen that they have started to sell off the game to other companies and are working hard on a non-EU based game. The best way MA can make this shift is to lock the PEDs in game and let us slowly sell off our items until we have nothing or withdraw and move on. Of course I would not like to see this or sound as if I'm saying the sky is falling. MA if I'm wrong here, then please change what is needed to use EPs.
 
Since explosive are introduced , Entropia universe economy dimish in 30%
PlayerActivity decrease around 40%(heavly user, newcomers while sweat increase)
And Cost to Play increase as well

Tell me for good fuck sake whats this dont need change MA?

Change this recipe from Nanocubes to ANY material avaible in game( in early stage dont make much diference , but at end all mu increase a bit and same time dont make expensive to crafters and residues still cheap)
 
I would be interested to know the stance of our president on this one...

Given we are the first self-governing MMO, how many people do we need to sign the petition before this is debated seriously and voted upon?
 
Not always - or they wouldn't bother at all. As a real crafter (components only due to my low profs levels) I noticed when someone form the ЕP gamblers hit a lucky streak with 5 digits HOFs (which often happens), the craft globals dive in the red.

Carrot was always present in PE/EU.
Players observed it for long. For Example before we got limited faps there were constant globals hofs on fap 2600, later same again on (L) faps after that we had long period of constant global/hof spams on mining amps up to nausea, later same with some crafting components witch requre heart or brain oils, latter same again with enhancers and so on till nowadays explosives.
In all that nobody have found enough good pattern to help predict as to when to stop crafting and wait that pool (if exist) get filled again. Same for hunting and mining. Thing is that pool or whatever we can call it (if exist) is much bigger than an single hof and many times happened more than one in certain period.
Other than that 5 digit hof is in most cases built by gamblers looses first so no big thing there.

Only replying because I have a lot of respect for you, who has hunted/grinded more than I'll ever do in a life time!

I see your point, however it omits one very simple and basic logic. This game has a small "gambling-addicted player base" and this player base has over the years helped you and I get OK returns in hunting, mining, etc.

These "gamblers" would, knowing they can and will lose big, spend as much as it takes to have a chance to hit it big. And as a result the "loot pool" gets filled, and more importantly, other players can seek out and find materials that are needed and sell them with some mark-up, thus covering some of the % they have to pay MindArk for playing the game.

Now, by making it so all items are from TT there is NOTHING used from, and given to, the community for the chance to hit it big.

Explosive BP is and will kill Entropia if not changed. Why do I know this? Because what makes Entropia a good game is the community. And the Explosive BP uses NOTHING from the community and gives very little back to the community.

Simple logic, Explosive BP does not contribute to Entropia!!!

IMHO whoever in MA invented the Explosive BP should be fired, it has hurt the Entropia Universe THAT much.

Also you omit something and i addressed it as first thing in my post.
For you EU have miners , hunters and gamblers (crafters).
Gamblers pay MU to miners and hunters and all are happy.
That would be if i talked about casino but i mentioned economy in my post.
I mentioned that there is no incentive to buy expensive crafted (L) items.
There is no demand, there are no buyers and that is problem witch should be solved and is not just an simple exp BP.
Yes that blue print do not bring new players or new demand in market but do you think that removing exp BP we will get more players in game and they will want to buy expensive crafted guns, tolls, armors, enhancers ect with MU and prices witch could represent many moths of playing other games.
I believe that is not removing one single blue print that will revive crafted products sales.
Must be more than that.
Btw explosive BP is apart repairing spaceship cheapest way to skill components for newcomers, wish i had that opportunity 14 years a go lol so is not true that do not give nothing to community.
I also believe that is part of bigger plan in future.
Or we really need to stop at point where gamblers are forced to pay our gameplay as they are end consumers and there si nobody to buy crafted items?

See the only issue here is that as you say MU isn't important yet you like how EP give you low MU in residue so that you can make a big profit on AMPs which really is the only item that is worth crafting these days due to the EP killing the market.

Opposite i said that low MU si very important if we want to have affordable cheap crafted items and not so expensive gameplay. I said that those who build their earning math based on high MU need to step down a little.

Since explosive are introduced , Entropia universe economy dimish in 30%
PlayerActivity decrease around 40%(heavly user, newcomers while sweat increase)
And Cost to Play increase as well

Tell me for good fuck sake whats this dont need change MA?

Change this recipe from Nanocubes to ANY material aviable in game( in early stage don't make much diference , but at end all mu increase a bit and same time don't make expensive to crafters and residues still cheap)

I don't see many veteran uber crafters in armors, tools, weapons in hof names for explosive crafting.
All cry that resources don't have MU.
How come that crafters do not craft now when all resources are cheap?
Is that because MR. explosive BP do not want to buy their crafted (L) armors, tools and weapons or is because there is no demand, there is no buyers and those who are present don want to pay for example 130% or 150% for average (L) gun?
I do not know what is solution, maybe new blue prints, maybe changing success rate in crafting or any other idea, ofc more new players in EU ect but just removing an BP will not solve non existent demand.
For sure we should not end by charging newcomer with 30 usd for an (L) gun or a tool.




And that is - is easy to say NO to some idea or opinion, hard is to find good idea or solution.
Also question is why we need to beat our heads with that as someone at MA is paid to do that.
Any way, shoot - I'm listening, will probably learn something.
 
Carrot was always present in PE/EU.

Other than that 5 digit hof is in most cases built by gamblers looses first so no big thing there.

I don't talk about a single 5 digits HOF. Since I started to care about this I often see one and the same player hitting 2x5 digits HOF plus 3-4 4 digits HOF in the 1st ten positions only. And often such HOFs are popping ona after another in less then 30 sec times.

Btw explosive BP is apart repairing spaceship cheapest way to skill components for newcomers, wish i had that opportunity 14 years a go lol so is not true that do not give nothing to community.

Actually it is better then this with the bonus crafting mission on Monria. But ofc for the mission everyone is crafting only EP I.
 
Since explosive are introduced , Entropia universe economy dimish in 30%
PlayerActivity decrease around 40%(heavly user, newcomers while sweat increase)
And Cost to Play increase as well

Tell me for good fuck sake whats this dont need change MA?

Change this recipe from Nanocubes to ANY material avaible in game( in early stage dont make much diference , but at end all mu increase a bit and same time dont make expensive to crafters and residues still cheap)

Wow, so much BS in such a short paragraph. Do people even know why they are signing this?

9-11-2014
Weekly Hunting Stats
Total value 1 977 750 PED
Weekly Globals 15 913
Most globals Longtooth

Weekly Mining Stats
Total value 623 641 PED
Weekly Globals 5 073
Most globals Caldorite Stone

Weekly Crafting Stats
Total value 1 047 125 PED
Weekly Globals 6 535
Most globals Level 2 Finder Amp (L)


9-14-2015
Weekly Hunting Stats
Total value 2 005 929 PED
Weekly Globals 16 886
Most globals Kerberos

Weekly Mining Stats
Total value 642 119 PED
Weekly Globals 3 942
Most globals Iron Stone

Weekly Crafting Stats
Total value 1 680 671 PED
Weekly Globals 8 141
Most globals Explosive Projectiles




and this weeks: (not same weeks, but just making a point)

Weekly Hunting Stats

Total value3 161 454 PED(-11.17 %)
Weekly Globals26 438(-15.76 %)
Most globalsCore Eviscerator


Weekly Mining Stats

Total value533 604 PED(-2.11 %)
Weekly Globals3 659(+10.71 %)
Most globalsIron Stone


Weekly Crafting Stats

Total value2 528 721 PED(+9.35 %)
Weekly Globals11 159(+5.40 %)
Most globalsExplosive Projectiles



'I don't like to see explosives on the hof list', is NOT a resonable reason to sign this petition.

Rgds

Ace
 
As said above we have always had something which was the favourite thing to craft (I remember the amps well). This is just the first time that all the resources were available from the TT.

I guess hunters and miners can all engage in their activities by buying stuff from the TT so why not crafters too? I guess the next step is that crafters will be able to use universal ammo to make the explosives, i guess this is fair.

Imo using universal ammo to make the explosives makes more sense then using nanocubes. I still don't understand what a nanocube is and how on earth it can be turned into an explosive projectile :laugh:. Surely they should need some sort of composites to produce... The idea that one can make something with just one ingredient also feels a little far fetched.

I have crafted many things and have also crafted EP. Crafting EPs just feels like pure gambling to me.
 
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Wow, so much BS in such a short paragraph. Do people even know why they are signing this?

9-11-2014
Weekly Hunting Stats
Total value 1 977 750 PED
Weekly Globals 15 913
Most globals Longtooth

Weekly Mining Stats
Total value 623 641 PED
Weekly Globals 5 073
Most globals Caldorite Stone

Weekly Crafting Stats
Total value 1 047 125 PED
Weekly Globals 6 535
Most globals Level 2 Finder Amp (L)


9-14-2015
Weekly Hunting Stats
Total value 2 005 929 PED
Weekly Globals 16 886
Most globals Kerberos

Weekly Mining Stats
Total value 642 119 PED
Weekly Globals 3 942
Most globals Iron Stone

Weekly Crafting Stats
Total value 1 680 671 PED
Weekly Globals 8 141
Most globals Explosive Projectiles




and this weeks: (not same weeks, but just making a point)

Weekly Hunting Stats

Total value3 161 454 PED(-11.17 %)
Weekly Globals26 438(-15.76 %)
Most globalsCore Eviscerator


Weekly Mining Stats

Total value533 604 PED(-2.11 %)
Weekly Globals3 659(+10.71 %)
Most globalsIron Stone


Weekly Crafting Stats

Total value2 528 721 PED(+9.35 %)
Weekly Globals11 159(+5.40 %)
Most globalsExplosive Projectiles



'I don't like to see explosives on the hof list', is NOT a resonable reason to sign this petition.

Rgds

Ace

the little data you provide is nowhere enough to conclude anything from it.

im missing the https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=263276 reports, we can only speculate why we dont get these any more, I wonder if MA has something to do with it.
 
the little data you provide is nowhere enough to conclude anything from it.

im missing the https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=263276 reports, we can only speculate why we dont get these any more, I wonder if MA has something to do with it.

I agree it isn't great, but what it does do is quickly show that the economy hasn't gone down by 40%.

I also agree it doesn't show true turnover, but it shows enough. That there is likely more turnover than before exp bp. (doesnt show number of people that do the total turnover, in this case globals)

Rgds

Ace
 
Maybe it should use sweat. That way it would help to sell more sweat and noobs last longer.
 
Wow, so much BS in such a short paragraph. Do people even know why they are signing this?

How many of those hunting globals are the sub-50-PED ones, I wonder? Recall that crafting doesn't result in sub-50-PED globals.

What those stats don't take into account (you have to be real careful if you're going to bring up stats from EntropiaLife because it's questionable at best and downright incorrect at worst) is the relative number of players hunting compared to the relative number of players crafting high-level EP's. I surmise the number of hunters VASTLY outnumbers the number of high-EP crafters. Doesn't that skew those stats just a tad? ;)
 
How many of those hunting globals are the sub-50-PED ones, I wonder? Recall that crafting doesn't result in sub-50-PED globals.

What those stats don't take into account (you have to be real careful if you're going to bring up stats from EntropiaLife because it's questionable at best and downright incorrect at worst) is the relative number of players hunting compared to the relative number of players crafting high-level EP's. I surmise the number of hunters VASTLY outnumbers the number of high-EP crafters. Doesn't that skew those stats just a tad? ;)

I agree one has to be VERY careful!!!

Rgds

Ace
 
How many of those hunting globals are the sub-50-PED ones, I wonder? Recall that crafting doesn't result in sub-50-PED globals.

What those stats don't take into account (you have to be real careful if you're going to bring up stats from EntropiaLife because it's questionable at best and downright incorrect at worst) is the relative number of players hunting compared to the relative number of players crafting high-level EP's. I surmise the number of hunters VASTLY outnumbers the number of high-EP crafters. Doesn't that skew those stats just a tad? ;)

Just to clarify you did know that Entropia tracker logs all globals on a given client and not just the owner of the client itself?
 
Maybe it should use sweat. That way it would help to sell more sweat and noobs last longer.

Thought about this earlier, too, but then wondered. We should not forget those who actually use explosives. It is a weapon type, and for all other types except this one (and old mindforce), ammo comes directly from TT or repair with no markup at all. Do we want to kill it off? Regardless of the source, EP's should be abundant and inexpensive, whichever solution is found for the damage the current system does.

If nobody has any bright idea, one might be tempted to say screw it, let them use universal ammo. The EP crafters may then live on in their own bubble. Not an elegant solution, but the whole thing more and more looks like a dead end to me. I'm at the end of my wits.
 
Just to clarify you did know that Entropia tracker logs all globals on a given client and not just the owner of the client itself?

That doesn't change the fact that the stats used in this example are VERY open to interpretation. Unless you can tell me how many hunters were involved in all the hunting globals over 50 PEDs, and how many level 3 & 4 EP crafters were involved in the crafting globals, the stats don't really reveal anything substantial. Let's see those numbers, eh? ;)
 
Imo using universal ammo to make the explosives makes more sense then using nanocubes. I still don't understand what a nanocube is and how on earth it can be turned into an explosive projectile :laugh:. Surely they should need some sort of composites to produce... The idea that one can make something with just one ingredient also feels a little far fetched.
yet the idea of just 'finding' some uber laser weapon or other item (or maybe not uber, but at least better than it's crafted alternative) in the guts of a disemboweled doesn't seem far fetched?
 
yet the idea of just 'finding' some uber laser weapon or other item in the guts of a disemboweled doesn't seem far fetched?

He has a good point, though. If you combined 200 bags of salt together, would you end up with something new? :rolleyes:

This isn't a reality debate, of course. :)
 
Maybe it should use sweat. That way it would help to sell more sweat and noobs last longer.

slippery slopes... if you do that for explosives, do it for other ammo too... remove em from the tt and make all non-universal ammo craftable with a combination of sweat and nanocubes, or maybe sweat + nanocube for explosives, blazer + nanocube for laser, nova +nanocube for blp (after all nova and blazers were added to the game just for the heck of it in much the same way that that nanocubes and explosive bps were at the time they came in to the game). Hell, really slippery slope, remove the tt all together and make everything lootable or sellable. Remove the auction too and make shops and p2p trading have a use again.
 
He has a good point, though. If you combined 200 bags of salt together, would you end up with something new? :rolleyes:

This isn't a reality debate, of course. :)

My interior narrative on that has always been that the TTs are "christmas machines", that is, nano-fabricators. They supply us with food for free, and basic stuff for cost. Other items need trace-elements of varying rarity, found in the guts of alien mobs, to fabricate. So, you don't actually find a gun, you find the trace elements to fab a gun.
 
yet the idea of just 'finding' some uber laser weapon or other item (or maybe not uber, but at least better than it's crafted alternative) in the guts of a disemboweled doesn't seem far fetched?

:laugh: that is a very good point I had never thought of before... Hmmm I guess the mob could have eaten it from an uber it killed :scratch2:

I will never see any profession the same way again! :laugh:
 
yet the idea of just 'finding' some uber laser weapon or other item (or maybe not uber, but at least better than it's crafted alternative) in the guts of a disemboweled doesn't seem far fetched?

LOL... find more weapons in a foul corpse than foul bones.
 
Mobs sure must find shrapnel tasty!
 
what's petition about? Isn't it to force crafters to skill at markup input? "It's been for ages, why to change that?" - you say. Just cool, to have skilling at TT input for miners (repairs, probes) or hunters (repairs, ammo) but when it has been introduced same for crafters that seems not allowed. Hunters have SIB uL weapons even at level 100...

You cry markets going down. (#1) Pay markup to crafter and crafter will be able to accept input at markup. Another reason of low markups - there are too few crafters (#2:due to expensive skilling). For sure there are more reasons and one of them is (#3) low list of items where even skilled crafter hardly breakthrough. But still craft is abandoned due to low count of their community. Low voice (#4(#2)). We forced to breakthrough your wish us to pay you markup. Doing service for community on burning loots seems has no respect. I mean not myself here - I'm not so active lately - but I wish to protect community of crafters.
There are very different reasons than just EP craft what brought to low markups...

You say it (=EP craft) blocked profit on making residue. Fun, fun - crafting of side products it was more profitable than crafting of main (it was put to TT???). I would not call that was manufacturing (making residue as main product). That was "rightly" balanced craft :D Let's crush fine Lysterium to have remnants. High residue market did "great" job to kill craft after disadvertising flow of expensive (L) items. Ppl were dieing fast on using (L). Probably that's why MA been forced to search for escape and introduced more of unL. To deepen problem...

You say it (=EP craft) goes for gambling. Oh, right, gamblers should pay high markups to have fun. They will die sooner. Black humor. No tolerance towards ppl who invest into having fun... I don't say addict is good thing but is it good simply to block it but not take care to show alternative fun for EU habitants? Where is your input?

think on in detail what you ask...

(sad auk)
 
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Oh, right, gamblers should pay high markups to have fun.

Where are my level 13 mining amps from the trade terminal? :yay:

Main problem is the EP IV, the other EP are fine and I agree crafters should have the cheap skilling method. No one (or very few) uses EP IV for skilling, only condition gambling...

But the deeper problem is as you said, crafting is weak right now. Not enough useful BPs imo, the economy is completely lifeless.
 
Where are my level 13 mining amps from the trade terminal?

I'm sure petition would help. There will be many wanting level 13 amps at TT. Poor crafters, NPCs will start making it soon :) Adj unL level 13 amps :D
 
mad minds go mad

U can add me to the list: Jeffrey whoeier Middelbos

As a fact, I've been a hellish crafting addict in the past ( no high bank roll available, so for me it was a gambling on any $ ).

The whole issue i see in here, is actually, the lack of use for ores and enmatter, wich is solvable easily.
1 ore + 1 enmatter = refined nanocubes ( TT value equals ore+enmat value )

IT wont be the market breach many would like, but it shifts the usage, availability and supports the trade for miners.

As many know, prices are based upon demand and availability, there where no miner hunts for TT value, but rather chases 30%+, their side gains will find use again and with the current flash in globals on the explosives, hell I can even see a shortage in Lyst and Oil ( pun intended, but what "ïf"? )

Perhaps there is even a base, to say to exclude certain ores/enmatter or make those more worth it ( like add per ore/enmat 1 fragment )

Lol im up for the following formula:

#tt value nano = 1 ore + 1 enmat + 2 fragment
 
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