The Planet Partner Effect

What is the most reasonable expected outcome of this scenario?

  • A

    Votes: 34 50.7%
  • B

    Votes: 10 14.9%
  • C

    Votes: 10 14.9%
  • D

    Votes: 13 19.4%

  • Total voters
    67
  • Poll closed .

atomicstorm

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Here's a math problem for discussion:

A hunter flies to four planets (for this exercise) with the intention of cycling 500,000 PED on each planet with the following parameters:

* Magically has the same defensive cost for any mob shot
* There is no land owner tax
* Opts to hunt only mobs with low-mid regen
* Opts to only shoot mobs within the same cost to kill range (5-10PED)
* ECO setup is the same for all 2 million peds cycled
* The person cycles the same amount each day - we will say.. 5K/day
* No large-scale events will occur during this time period
* The four planets consists of: Arkadia, Rocktropia, Calypso, Cyrene

What would be the expectation of TT returns for the hunter for each of the 500K ped cycle samples?

A: Roughly the same with a very tiny variance (IE. < 0.10%)
B: The most populated planet (Calypso) will be superior in returns over the others (IE. > 0.50%)
C: The planets that are undisturbed the most will be superior in returns over the more populated ones
D: Not enough information to even guess

Lot of people have some opinions on this matter. I thought it would be worth a discussion.

Discuss.
 
Same over LONG term, that could far express 10k mobs being killed (500k peds spent)
 
The way the platform works right now and with my small experience living on Caly and both on Ark and longer on RT, I choose B. Caly will be superior in long term to loot. If we talking for guns/items drops with some MU. That's the rule for me and ofc there will be some exceptions.
 
I choose....

E. Don't you have anything better to ponder about. ??

In all seriousness over a period of cycling that large amount of ped, I would tend to lean with TT returns being pretty close to the same across all planets. If all the above stated parameters are followed.
 
I'm lost.

Why is the thread called "The Planet Partner Effect"? What is that?

Also, what is the reasoning behind the possibility that TT returns are different on Calypso vs other planets?
 
I'm lost.

Why is the thread called "The Planet Partner Effect"? What is that?

Also, what is the reasoning behind the possibility that TT returns are different on Calypso vs other planets?
I think atomic refer to a theory here. At least that was the reason of reading it at first place. Theory that saying "loot is somewhat different in a PP than the "capital" loot planet Caly".
I also had concerns of playing on other planets myself than my origin one. That's another theory because of the splitting decay and % profit in long term to more "partners".
Both are "theories" and as such people with big bankroll and long experience can have a better opinion.
 
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id be more interested to know the average tt return if a player were to exclusively hunt shared mobs (either solo or with others) vs standard mobs.

tt returns planet vs planet isnt as interesting for some reason. :)
 
The loot formula is getting pretty massive if we start including location information in there with all the other mad theories.

It will be the same. Probably less variance than .1% too.
 
A: should be relatively the same..
 
I think with such a large sample it should be relatively close, however I would say the order in which the planets were done and what the player had done previously would have an impact.

For example if I cycle in space getting around 40% returns for a few months, I am guaranteed to do well on planet.

My theory would be that what he had done previously would have an impact, and the running order of the planets also.

He would need to repeat the test many times alternating the order of planets ;)
 
This is not a mad theory at all. It might not be true thou.

I suppose we all agree part of our decay is not immediately returned to us but accumulated in a shared buffer.
Otherwise, where do those uber HoF's come from, right?

We prolly don't agree on how exactly this buffer works (there's like dozen different theories) or on what level this buffer (or buffers, maybe there's several?) is located - mob spawn, server (geographic area), mob as such (all over the planet), a planet, all mobs on all planets, all professions on all planets.

I'm not sure a buffer for a planet exists, prolly not. More like combination of smaller scale buffers on that planet. I think? :scratch2:

Anyway, if there is a shared buffer it prolly depends how many ppl are competing for it and how much they are able to grab. This situation can be different on different planets. It could be good for you or bad for you, and sometimes (alone on NI) it can be zero.



Voted A. For that dps and turnover u shouldn't see much difference.
 
Here's a math problem for discussion:

A hunter flies to four planets (for this exercise) with the intention of cycling 500,000 PED on each planet with the following parameters:

* Magically has the same defensive cost for any mob shot
* There is no land owner tax
* Opts to hunt only mobs with low-mid regen
* Opts to only shoot mobs within the same cost to kill range (5-10PED)
* ECO setup is the same for all 2 million peds cycled
* The person cycles the same amount each day - we will say.. 5K/day
* No large-scale events will occur during this time period
* The four planets consists of: Arkadia, Rocktropia, Calypso, Cyrene

What would be the expectation of TT returns for the hunter for each of the 500K ped cycle samples?

A: Roughly the same with a very tiny variance (IE. < 0.10%)
B: The most populated planet (Calypso) will be superior in returns over the others (IE. > 0.50%)
C: The planets that are undisturbed the most will be superior in returns over the more populated ones
D: Not enough information to even guess

Lot of people have some opinions on this matter. I thought it would be worth a discussion.

Discuss.

At 5k per day and ignoring the average hunting setups of other players i expect the average return on cyrene to be worse then rocktropia and rocktropia to be worse then caly/ark - solely because the amounts cycled on less populated planets will rely more heavily on your personal peds spent then on the peds spent by others -> so relying on your own peds to be returned most of the time you will see less in total.

However the compareable hunting setup of you compared to the other hunters on the respective planet does matter alot therefor it might be more likely to do well on a less populated planet as long as the others hunters there use equippment worse then yours.

Apart from that - events in the universe (or spikes of activity in general) do impact all other areas and if one place gets really busy it likely will happen that you do alot worse if you hunt remote at the wrong time.
 
I choose....

E. Don't you have anything better to ponder about. ??

In all seriousness over a period of cycling that large amount of ped, I would tend to lean with TT returns being pretty close to the same across all planets. If all the above stated parameters are followed.

When you're a math nerd... the answer is no.. I don't have anything else to ponder about. I've already sorted out all the world problems. :]
 
I guess it falls into an entirely different catageory.

Assumptions:
1) Random system based around a minimum and maximum return.

Therefore if you are the only player on a loot server, (Whatever that may be), then you will get all the ups and downs available in the random system. So tt returns would be very stable.

If you are on a busy server, there is more chance people get 'your' big one. So tt returns on busy servers are more variable.

In both scenarios the 'servers' tt returns are the same. But the individual avatars see very different tt returns. All of which is possible on a random payout system.


Let's be fair, though...i am probably wrong lol

Just my two pec.

Rgds

Ace
 
I voted for A but believe E:

the total loot return % is the same for each planet.

But if you are on a planet with only a few players and there are some uber eco hunters around your average tt return will be lower then when you hunt on another planet with less eco players. So while your tt returns might be lower, the total tt returns for all players on the planet are the same.
 
At 5k per day and ignoring the average hunting setups of other players i expect the average return on cyrene to be worse then rocktropia and rocktropia to be worse then caly/ark - solely because the amounts cycled on less populated planets will rely more heavily on your personal peds spent then on the peds spent by others -> so relying on your own peds to be returned most of the time you will see less in total.

However the compareable hunting setup of you compared to the other hunters on the respective planet does matter alot therefor it might be more likely to do well on a less populated planet as long as the others hunters there use equippment worse then yours.

Apart from that - events in the universe (or spikes of activity in general) do impact all other areas and if one place gets really busy it likely will happen that you do alot worse if you hunt remote at the wrong time.

well presented by John and very close to that I had in mind but didn't analyse it.
 
Because of the Loot Wave system this wouldn't work unless you add another rule. All avatars start hunt at exactly the same time and stop at the exact same time. So either they cycle 5k ped non stop or take exact breaks in between so synchronized hunting 5k ped / day.
If the above is added to the rules.

My estimate would be option C. Since less population means less competition. More potential loot from loot wave system. If you don't believe in loot wave system. It's quite easy to see especially on calypso now.

Since u otherwise only loot crapnel and ammo. When you loot oils (or that rare extractor, it's noticeable since there's delay before it shows up in loot msg) = loot wave system activated.

During those times, it's best to put max dps possible to maximize MU. That is the common loot wave system. There's three kinds as far as I can tell.

1. Common (most oil).
2. Less common (small shrooms, nano adjusters etc).
3. Real Rare item hofs. (None of those crafted or fake rare item hofs).
 
My estimate would be option C. Since less population means less competition. More potential loot from loot wave system.

How do you know the loot waves are planet specific and not universe-wide?
 
Because of the Loot Wave system this wouldn't work unless you add another rule. All avatars start hunt at exactly the same time and stop at the exact same time. So either they cycle 5k ped non stop or take exact breaks in between so synchronized hunting 5k ped / day.
If the above is added to the rules.

My estimate would be option C. Since less population means less competition. More potential loot from loot wave system. If you don't believe in loot wave system. It's quite easy to see especially on calypso now.

Since u otherwise only loot crapnel and ammo. When you loot oils (or that rare extractor, it's noticeable since there's delay before it shows up in loot msg) = loot wave system activated.

During those times, it's best to put max dps possible to maximize MU. That is the common loot wave system. There's three kinds as far as I can tell.

1. Common (most oil).
2. Less common (small shrooms, nano adjusters etc).
3. Real Rare item hofs. (None of those crafted or fake rare item hofs).

What you describe is what gives me anxiety.. when you can't play during peak times and you play during us times, you would seemingly be at a disadvantage. This loot wave timing bs is crappy. In fact, it actually makes the game unplayable for me if it is indeed true.

Btw, that delay from the extractor is an item cache issue. Not a magical indicator.
 
How do you know the loot waves are planet specific and not universe-wide?
Don't think I said they are planet specific. If i did that's not what I meant. I merely stated that since if you get loot wave on a less populated planet you have more chance to loot more of it because less players hunting. On planet Cyrene for instance is very noticeable. Almost every loot wave item when loot wave has been activated gets looted in a row and never gets looted when its deactivated.

What you describe is what gives me anxiety.. when you can't play during peak times and you play during us times, you would seemingly be at a disadvantage. This loot wave timing bs is crappy. In fact, it actually makes the game unplayable for me if it is indeed true.

Btw, that delay from the extractor is an item cache issue. Not a magical indicator.

It should. The game is designed this way. And many folks have taken advantage of knowing this information. It's a predictable design flaw, and smart people can't help but take full advantage of it. Heck some even abuse it beyond the limit. I remember last years migration people shot eomons and kept them at low health with sleipnirs only to kill them all in one go, when loot wave had started, looting tons of E.L.M guns or whatever they are called.

The last part, you are probably right.
 
But loot wave, item specific, is different than tt returns and in this scenario, that is what we are focused on.
 
i think waves are planet dependent, if i recall the waves on early Cyrene waves were predictable meaning you could guarentee wave loots by timing, team cyrene mentioned tweaking the intevals to a more random figure. This made it sound like they have some independent control

edit: ok it wasn't independent,

Loot Waves
- We've made substantial changes to how loot drops happen on Cyrene (in conjunction with MindArk) to try and alleviate loot dropping in waves. This will be an ongoing process that we will continually adjust as needed.
 
But loot wave, item specific, is different than tt returns and in this scenario, that is what we are focused on.
True. But because of the dynamics of loot wave system, it may affect TT returns (albeit slightly) on less populated planets. So I still think C would be higher TT return overall. :D
 
Since u otherwise only loot crapnel and ammo. When you loot oils (or that rare extractor, it's noticeable since there's delay before it shows up in loot msg) = loot wave system activated.

It's a myth.

This happens because items you haven't looted since the last VU take a moment to find and load the thumbnail to show in the loot notification, while shrammo and other common stuff already have thumbnails cached.

If you loot a gun and a pile of shrap:
  • in loot notifications shrap shows instantly but the gun appears 0.2...2.0 (depending on your rig) seconds later;
  • but in the team chat the gun shows up first, before shrap.

Here's an example:

(compare what you see in team chat and in the notifications)

The typical order of loot in team chat is:
  • items
  • shrap
  • components/extractors/oils
  • ammo

In times of lag it often gets messed up, and different team members may even see lines in different order.

edit2: apologies 5$, I know this is perpendicular to the topic at hand :D but 'loot wave' myths must be busted
 
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Most on these forums seem pretty damn certain that loot waves do happen during events (such as migration of mayhem). Or am I wrong?

I suppose that doesn't translate into random loot waves during non-event periods. Looking at it from MA's perspective it just wouldn't make any sense. Whereas for events it could be used as a method to lure people in so they keep shooting away their PEDs through the entire event :dunce:
 
E: hunt on 5 dolla LA's cuz they are the best :rolleyes:
 
Most on these forums seem pretty damn certain that loot waves do happen during events (such as migration of mayhem). Or am I wrong?

I suppose that doesn't translate into random loot waves during non-event periods. Looking at it from MA's perspective it just wouldn't make any sense. Whereas for events it could be used as a method to lure people in so they keep shooting away their PEDs through the entire event :dunce:

Loot waves are real, both during events and outside them. Just that lots of what is being asserted about and around loot waves has no real basis.
 
Usually, my "loot wave" consists of me waving goodbye to the ped leaving my ped card.:wave::wave::wave::wave::banghead:
 
Most on these forums seem pretty damn certain that loot waves do happen during events (such as migration of mayhem). Or am I wrong?

I suppose that doesn't translate into random loot waves during non-event periods.
Loot waves are forever. They are more or less dynamic/random/predictable and they can "carry" different content but loot waves as such are always there.
They should develop a new system for rare loot distribution, a qualitatively different one... but, at least trying to tweak the existing system to make it harder to crack/predict is the second best option I guess.
 
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