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Space PVP War!

Was Xane's ban justified?

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 38.2%

  • No

    Votes: 36 47.4%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 11 14.5%
  • Total voters
    76
There shouldn't even be calls of harassment. Every ship in space has the capability of shooting someone that is stalling their warp. MA should disregard ALL support cases of harassment in all PVP zones. Why does MA even care? Ammo spent and decay of quad guns goes right into MA's pocket.

Here is an example.

I'm in space and I want to warp but a mob is attacking me interrupting my warp drive.
I don't want to spend peds shooting said mob.
Now its harassing me!
I'm gonna cry to MA about it and get that bugger removed.

Just shoot the damn thing and move on people!
 
Mitsuwa you said:
"Also you seem to have failed to consider the perspective i personally hold. My feelings are plenty important because they come from the perspective of someone who has personally disarmed him and his kind of their cheated advantages and forced a level playing field, where he would have it rigged so he could earn fortunes, then gone on to actively contest him in space. I have dealt with his "harassment" first had, as well as his willingness to lie and twist the truth, so I see the deception he's up to here."

Irony here Mitsuwa is you have deceived, twisted the truth, acted in bad faith, fraudulently misrepresented yourself as new player and you did all this against myself and Varyag crew.
Just so you know Mitsuwa I did not report your extreme prejudicial actions against myself, Varyag and Varyag crew.
I did not report you for using an alt account (or that of your girlfriend or whatever) for purposes of deliberately trying to incite myself and crew to attack the mothership Kronan.
Instead I put on my big people pants and solved the problem for myself and crew by ejecting you from Varyag.

FYI: people whose accounts were permanent banned are sometimes at discretion of Mind Ark later allowed to start all over again from the beginning with a new account with a new noob avatar.

Grow up Mitsuwa if you going to dish it out be a big person and deal with it when you get some of it back.
Stop being a spoiled brat who is allowed to be rotten to whom he pleases but everyone must be nice back no matter how much you break the rules.



Pontfirebird73 your point is well made. Instead of whining about pvp people do as Pontfirebird73 says:
"Just shoot the damn thing and move on"
 
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I would like to point out a but of irony... your crew yoshii is not without fault. So let's not grandstand here. Not sure anyone is spotless in repute in space.

We have 1 side of the story. The reason why mindark doesn't talk about people's punishments is for this reason. You don't get the full story. We have no idea if xane is telling the truth.. we just have an idea. Whether Xane is doing shady stuff or you take the anti kronan approach and call them crybabies... it does not matter at all.

What matters is that the drama that is in this thread should be normal healthy pvp drama if space pvp was balanced. It's not.. and mindark shouldnt have to be arbiter over whether or not someone's actions in this environment is exploitative or tactical. Let's focus on that shall we?

Rule of game development - you can't dictate what players can or cannot do if the game/platform allows it, you can only prevent it through solid mechanic design.
 
Thread like this never fail to entertain :popcorn:

curious, how long does a warp take to trigger? same as a tp chip? if the MS had just swatted the Quad it surely could have warped before Xane could have returned and this drama would have never happened.
 
atomicstorm said:
Rule of game development - you can't dictate what players can or cannot do if the game/platform allows it, you can only prevent it through solid mechanic design.
Click to expand...

Aye and the reason why we have had 5 years of bitching, whining, namecalling and reporting in space is because the solid mechanic design is missing and suggested hotfixes dont get implemented.
Alpha space has hardly been touched by mindark since october 2011...
If they had spent those hours that their support spent on answering space related support cases, relocating stuck avatars in space and investigating harassment issues issueing/revoking temporary bans on space development and actual bug fixing we all would have a much better and exciting space out there and alot less complaints - maybe even some of those millions of players who signed up with other space games that are in development/being released...
 
The Jetman said:
Thread like this never fail to entertain :popcorn:

curious, how long does a warp take to trigger? same as a tp chip? if the MS had just swatted the Quad it surely could have warped before Xane could have returned and this drama would have never happened.
Click to expand...

Typical MS warp warm-up is about 10 seconds.. if MS fires it guns or is hit by a shot during this time, the warp fails.

I think this is the same on all warp ships.
 
Sionkiewicz said:
Typical MS warp warm-up is about 10 seconds.. if MS fires it guns or is hit by a shot during this time, the warp fails.

I think this is the same on all warp ships.
Click to expand...

so if they took down Xane, the warp would be ready just as Xane had respawned, which he would have to repair (unless he has spare quad) and get from SS to location, by which time the MS has gone.
 
The Jetman said:
so if they took down Xane, the warp would be ready just as Xane had respawned, which he would have to repair (unless he has spare quad) and get from SS to location, by which time the MS has gone.
Click to expand...

Kronan had three crew onboard as well as the pilot. I expect none of them wanted to waste the peds. I certainly never bothered wasting peds in shooting at them if they wanted to waste there peds in shooting at me, that was up to them but I saw no reason to play there game. As a warp ship pilot I spent a good deal of time in space but I've not the slightest interest in pvp. The fact that space is pvp was irrelevant to what I wanted to do there.
 
Have NEVER claimed myself and crew are perfect. Just to set the record straight. We all know about a Varyag crew member who has been banned temporary a few times for having too big a mouth on him and not using his words proper. Whatever the flaws of Varyag crew hypocrisy is not one of them.

Imperfections or not we need solid values and solid rules.

Do not agree that it is solely Mind Ark design that is reason for what has been described as bitching.
Whatever the flaws of Mind Ark it is our choice if we take advantage of ambiguity to punish those we do not agree with.
Yes we need Mind Ark to put into the code itself the rules of pvp in space so we can let the game take care of pvp since it seems we fail to rise to the occasion.
If Mind Ark deems it good idea to take the ideas of players to fix space I hope they hold a forum where all players have equal opportunity for input and equal consideration of their ideas.



Jetsina makes point (as have some others) that rules get enforced on some players but not others. As well Jetsina points out that Mind Ark did not provide a clear answer about the locking of Xane's account.
 
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The Jetman said:
so if they took down Xane, the warp would be ready just as Xane had respawned, which he would have to repair (unless he has spare quad) and get from SS to location, by which time the MS has gone.
Click to expand...

Except that Xane (and other pirates) stays out of MS Gun Range while delivering the one-shot to disrupt the warp. In truth, a MS Gun should not have a shorter range than a Quad, but.. :scratch2:
 
John B Knight said:
Aye and the reason why we have had 5 years of bitching, whining, namecalling and reporting in space is because the solid mechanic design is missing and suggested hotfixes dont get implemented.
Alpha space has hardly been touched by mindark since october 2011...
If they had spent those hours that their support spent on answering space related support cases, relocating stuck avatars in space and investigating harassment issues issueing/revoking temporary bans on space development and actual bug fixing we all would have a much better and exciting space out there and alot less complaints - maybe even some of those millions of players who signed up with other space games that are in development/being released...
Click to expand...

I almost fully agree with that, however the timeframe for still grabbing some of those millions of players who like space is receeding. Every update to the competition makes EU space look more outdated.
I still reckon, though, that a properly working, fun space environment would have potential as part of what EU is overall, even if it doesn't hold up directly.

Yoshii:
Jetsina makes point (as have some others) that rules get enforced on some players but not others. As well Jetsina points out that Mind Ark did not provide a clear answer about the locking of Xane's account.
Click to expand...
It's more that some rules sometimes get enforced, some don't seem to, and rules get made (up) but not made clear, etc. Having (at least) two sides in space (in terms of what they do) obviously affects which rules they might break.

Personally I think it would be simple to put restraints on when an MS can warp that are less severe than simply one shot fired per initiation sequence. I would think any decent platform provider could implement solutions within weeks at most. It's not so much about bug fixing, but feature balancing.

We have virtually NO idea what to expect from the space revamp activities promised for after compet work gets done, but it always seems that the more complex the playing options, the less MA is able to think ahead in their feature designs... but I agree with others here too - the platform should be programmed to be balanced, needing a support team that cannot implement good solutions and only ban people doesn't really help.
 
Sionkiewicz said:
Except that Xane (and other pirates) stays out of MS Gun Range while delivering the one-shot to disrupt the warp. In truth, a MS Gun should not have a shorter range than a Quad, but.. :scratch2:
Click to expand...


No, that was before, it got fixed, there is allways a gun in range while they deliver the shot.
 
mitsuwa said:
Last I had checked, permanent bans didn't come with parole, so no someone that's made a new account to dodge punishment has not served their time.

Also you seem to have failed to consider the perspective i personally hold. My feelings are plenty important because they come from the perspective of someone who has personally disarmed him and his kind of their cheated advantages and forced a level playing field, where he would have it rigged so he could earn fortunes, then gone on to actively contest him in space. I have dealt with his "harassment" first had, as well as his willingness to lie and twist the truth, so I see the deception he's up to here. Whether the ban was deserved on the grounds they were given is up for debate, sure, but a ban he does indeed deserve.

I'm not willing to let his pitty party stand because I know it extends beyond that, and I'm less than amused by it
Click to expand...

How about some proof of me laying? Or do you just like to make false accusation in the hopes people take your word for it? I don't make claims that I don't also provide evidence of as you can see from this thread. I bet only 10% of everything that pirates are said to have done is accurate, most of it is miss information that's perpetuated by more miss information because "we don't like you and you deserve to be banend".

Also my account was not perma-banned it was locked, I didn't remake the avatar it was simply unlocked. The reason I was locked for over a year was because I wouldn't admit to attempting to push another player out into pvp with my quad. There was even video of me not doing the thing I was accused of but MA didn't give a crap, they wanted me to say I wouldn't do it again and that to me was admitting guilt. So we were left with a stand off for over a year. I finally gave in and said I wouldn't do it anymore. Ever have to admit to something you didn't do? Not a good feeling.
 
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Yoshii Lem said:
Mitsuwa you said:
"Also you seem to have failed to consider the perspective i personally hold. My feelings are plenty important because they come from the perspective of someone who has personally disarmed him and his kind of their cheated advantages and forced a level playing field, where he would have it rigged so he could earn fortunes, then gone on to actively contest him in space. I have dealt with his "harassment" first had, as well as his willingness to lie and twist the truth, so I see the deception he's up to here."

Irony here Mitsuwa is you have deceived, twisted the truth, acted in bad faith, fraudulently misrepresented yourself as new player and you did all this against myself and Varyag crew.
Just so you know Mitsuwa I did not report your extreme prejudicial actions against myself, Varyag and Varyag crew.
I did not report you for using an alt account (or that of your girlfriend or whatever) for purposes of deliberately trying to incite myself and crew to attack the mothership Kronan.
Instead I put on my big people pants and solved the problem for myself and crew by ejecting you from Varyag.

FYI: people whose accounts were permanent banned are sometimes at discretion of Mind Ark later allowed to start all over again from the beginning with a new account with a new noob avatar.

Grow up Mitsuwa if you going to dish it out be a big person and deal with it when you get some of it back.
Stop being a spoiled brat who is allowed to be rotten to whom he pleases but everyone must be nice back no matter how much you break the rules.



Pontfirebird73 your point is well made. Instead of whining about pvp people do as Pontfirebird73 says:
"Just shoot the damn thing and move on"
Click to expand...

The issue with this being that Kat is owned by a real and separate person who actually plays the game. You're saying that because there exists an avatar that you don't like, that's here legally without any existing bans, it's ok for someone to outright break the rules and evade punishment? And if I remember correctly, you didn't even figure out the connection for a week or two after you booted her, her having been removed because she owned a privateer which she had literally always been in possession of. Yea, not impressed.

But ultimately the primary difference here is that, under the assumption I was breaking any rule, I would have been prepared to take my lumps and move on instead of sobbing on the forums like a petulant little fucking child.

Once again, i must remind you that I know the score.
 
so how long is your ban or lock?
 
atomicstorm said:
Not fixed for sure
Click to expand...

They often shoot just on the border of range then fly back out. Pilots and gunners need to be quick to catch them just at that second that they are in range.

In case any one is curious ......

The issue used to be, when warp harassment was rife, that the ms had no rear guns. Due to the size of the ms all the Pirates had to do was sit directly behind her and shoot. The farthest rear gun of the ms couldn't reach them, and of course the ms moves a lot slower than a quad. Rear guns were introduced which solved that issue.

The ms guns still lack range, for the size of the ship they should be able to defend against all targets within sight imo. It should not be the case that a pirate can hang around 0.0001 au out of range, dive forward a fraction, pop in a shot, then dive back out. However that's when it takes canny ( and patient! ) pilots and gunners :)
 
The range of a MS guns had nothing to do with this case, I was in range plenty of time. They didn't try to defend themselves with their guns. Cheaper to send in support cases.
 
the-neverending-story.jpg
 
Even if space gets an overhaul and all of the sudden its balanced and more people want to come and PVP in space there will still exist these weird, messed up, made up on the spot, game mechanic contradicting rules that only benefit one MS so they could ban one pirate once upon a time.
 
Xane said:
The range of a MS guns had nothing to do with this case, I was in range plenty of time. They didn't try to defend themselves with their guns. Cheaper to send in support cases.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it was quite a side point :)


Damn you mega, now the song is stuck in my head! :laugh:
 
The battle in question:

 
Xane said:
The range of a MS guns had nothing to do with this case, I was in range plenty of time. They didn't try to defend themselves with their guns. Cheaper to send in support cases.
Click to expand...

From a MS point of view they are forced to shoot back then. This would cost them with nothing to gain (unless you had loot). They had no wish to battle only to go about the their own bussiness of taking their customers from point A to point B. I am not taking sides, but from what others have said incluiding your self its the mechincs of how space has been created that is major problem.
 
Mitsuwa you fraudulently misrepresented yourself as a new player.
You attempted to incite Varyag to attack Kronan.
You also further lied saying you had been done wrong by Kronan.
You hid behind the account of another or alt.
So you lied and committed fraud.
So I put on my big girl pants and kicked you instead of crying to Mind Ark.
Nobody has ever been kicked for owning a privateer you make me laugh Mitsuwa. FYI there are warpship owners who crew on Varyag what stupid crap you say that anyone got kicked for owning a privateer. Stop hiding behind others pick up your own dirt.
Do not know where you get idea that I think it okay to break the rules.
That is you who does it and thinks it is okay for you to do so but you cry wah wah when someone does legal pvp against you.
The only thing to understand here is you are a hypocrite who feels free to fraudulently misrepresent yourself for purposes of creating war between people. But then you cry when someone does lawful pvp against you.
 
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Well what i still don't understand, why don't the MS go attack and kill the pirates?
If not possible because of bad balancing, why not ask in chat for help?
If nobody comes to help, why not hire some players to shoot the pirates? Like an escort.
I am pretty sure, if a reward is offered some people come help and drive the pirates away. That is how PvP should work....
Cost too much and no gain? Still MAs fault and not the pirate's. All nonsense? Why even bother buying a Mothership?

About this so calles Warpmine, are there official rules that say you are only allowed to use that item under certain conditions? Don't think so.
Even if someone camps the safezone, you could ask for help, could you not? I mean ask other players to help you, not support. That would be normal behaviour in PvP.
But here in EU if someone PvPs you, you ask support for help and they lock the PvPers account o_O

Maybe the original intention of MA in SPace PvP is, that if you are attacked all time, farmed, spawn camped or whatever, is to ask for help. Hire other players to be your guard. That could be a job for other players.
MS owners don't want to do that? Own fault i think, maybe just sell the MS?

I am really pissed off that the PvP in EU sucks like this... could be so much fun :/
 
If you are in a pvp zone and you when entering space acknowledge and agree to then you get to go about your business if nobody wants to pvp with you.
Kind of irrelevant if you trying to run a business or not everyone on the ship going somewhere have also acknowledged and agreed to space pvp. So no foul if you attacked alone in a ship or if you attacked with a ship full of playing customers. It is really silly to claim interfering with gameplay, business etc. if what is happening is lawful pvp.
Yeah you have the right to not fight. And pvp players have the right to shoot you.
You also have the right to sell your ship to another who has the fortitude to deal with pvp.

As much as this thread is a "never ending story" containing much drama it is encouraging however messily some of us engage in it at least we are talking about this very important subject.
 
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