Speed exploit or Positional geometry?

well if he were coming from south while i was flying west or east (to make it simple) it would be different. but we both came from the same space station so he was pretty much directly behind me. maybe in an angle of max 10°

Yes, that is important and relevant information. 10°, however, does mean the gap can be shortened somewhat. Once within radar (and distancing) range it is up to the ship being attacked to change vector to the same one as the pirate = no more catching up!
 
i also added a complaint about harassment by the way. after first kill he came back to space station. waited for me to repair and fly again to shoot me down again while it being obvious i wasnt carrying loot as he didnt get anything on the first kill either. pure harassment
 
Doesn't matter. I can fly in space and pirates will come out of no where and catch up.

Coming out of 'nowhere' is better for them even, as the intercept path is more likely to be shorter.

Imagine a circle with its centre far away on the path of the target. Now look at the circumference and see where the pirate is, outside or inside? Plus you need to consider the shooting range, which is like a bubble circle too.
Pirates that are somewhat 'behind' you cannot catch up completely, but can maybe get their 'bubble' within range at some point. (unless you change your line of flight)
 
EDIT: Think I've misunderstood, nvm.
 
Coming out of 'nowhere' is better for them even, as the intercept path is more likely to be shorter.

Imagine a circle with its centre far away on the path of the target. Now look at the circumference and see where the pirate is, outside or inside? Plus you need to consider the shooting range, which is like a bubble circle too.
Pirates that are somewhat 'behind' you cannot catch up completely, but can maybe get their 'bubble' within range at some point.

Out of no where is just behind me... in the scenarios I posted, I was in the 2nd seat looking behind me.

To me it doesn't matter, Pirates just waste ped.
 
This is all he is saying:

intersectingpaths.jpg


I have no sympathy for pirates but fair is fair, put away the pitchforks.

I am glad I am not the only one who took to drawing it :laugh:

Here is my terrible attempt, I moved both quads 115mm along their lines, since both would move the same distance in the same time. The gap was initially 65mm, its now 50mm (there or there abouts).

grid.jpg
 
I am glad I am not the only one who took to drawing it :laugh:

Here is my terrible attempt, I moved both quads 115mm along their lines, since both would move the same distance in the same time. The gap was initially 65mm, its now 50mm (there or there abouts).

grid.jpg

yeah that kinda shows the same idea i got, as long as the angle is correct that he won't undershoot or run out of map, its possible. Altho that picture shows a large undershoot, but its the principle
 
Nope, it's you that's wrong, and I have a first class honours degree in mathematics to back my opinion up.

In your diagram the blue ship will always have to travel a greater distance than the red ship in order to reach any point on the red ship's flight path. The distance between them can only decrease if a) the red ship changes course or b) the blue ship has a higher average speed than the red ship.

Oleg, the distance between the two ships can decrease and actually will decrease with intersecting paths. This is because in a cartesian coordinate system their delta-y is decreasing.

EDIT: I have just read your edit.
 
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Oleg, the distance between the two ships can decrease and actually will decrease with intersecting paths. This is because in a cartesian coordinate system their delta-y is decreasing.

EDIT: I have just read your edit.

Yep, I got the right answer but to the wrong question :D
 
i also added a complaint about harassment by the way. after first kill he came back to space station. waited for me to repair and fly again to shoot me down again while it being obvious i wasnt carrying loot as he didnt get anything on the first kill either. pure harassment

They all do that. Chance. Mic jack etc. Or wait until server line and send you all the way back. That would be harassment for sure.
 
Out of no where is just behind me... in the scenarios I posted, I was in the 2nd seat looking behind me.
The problem is, you need to be able to 'see' the lines (or look exactly at the compass and be flying level on the plane). Once radar distance is an option (select target), you can use that to find the parallel path to the pirate.

After this, the pirate would have to use an exploit or more, which I believe has happened in many cases, but I do not know which ones still exist within "MA's space framework"

Thanks for the diagrams peeps - they help quite a bit!
 
We have had that discussion already in the other thread, of course he can catch up with an intercept course and it will go even faster if he is prepositioned to be already on the target destinations altitude level, eg. many players aim for the visual appearance of the planet or set a waypoint to the planets ss or go horizontal from their start destination which makes their flight path predictable and an intercept course even more effective.

Just because he is a pirate doesnt make his experience in flight patterns and intercept routes an exploit its merely the knowledge he gathered from being a very active pilot for years.
 
We have had that discussion already in the other thread, of course he can catch up with an intercept course and it will go even faster if he is prepositioned to be already on the target destinations altitude level, eg. many players aim for the visual appearance of the planet or set a waypoint to the planets ss or go horizontal from their start destination which makes their flight path predictable and an intercept course even more effective.

Just because he is a pirate doesnt make his experience in flight patterns and intercept routes an exploit its merely the knowledge he gathered from being a very active pilot for years.

but it wont work when too far away or the angle too small
 
kWzrdwU.jpg


The purple box is the starting positions for both planes. The measured distance between them is 113.137. The green box is the final position of the planes and the measured distance between them is 106.607 showing a gain of 6.53 units of measure for the chasing plane. This is using Pythagorean theorem as True Juan suggested i do.

Both planes were moved forward one plane length a total number of six times.
 
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I dont do much of anything in 1st person in eu anymore.

I'm not a fan of 1st either, but it has one advantage - angles you see on your radar are real and not affected by occasional camera rotation. If you fly in 3rd, you can't be sure behind is really behind.
 
Angular intercepts are grade one level stuff in pirate school. Literally the second thing you learn after you realise your just out of range and not catching that guy chasing straight after him.

So sometimes i would fly up behind the guy just out of safe - not my usual style as i liked deeper space intercepts. I would make sure i am within range but shoot and miss (Clearly an exploit) the target in the hopes that he things im too far back to ever get him. Once he is far enough out i would spring my surprise on the target - I was close enough the whole time !

Guess what ws the first accusation thrown out at my char - you think im going to tell him !! Ha get lost ;)
 
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you are a pretty good example of the american education system being one if not the worst of all first world countries. there is no physically possible way, not in 2d nor in 3d, that if someone is behind someone else and NOT in shooting range of his weapon can catch up a vehicle flying a straight line when both have the exact same maximum speed. there were no movements from me in any kind as i was not touching keyboard nor mouse.

but this heavy fail in geometry is just laughable. i allready knew he was stupid but this is some world class stupidity right there. pythagoras would die in shame if he he knew that.
the hypotenuse is allways longer than any of the other 2 sides. and the hypotenuse would be the side that would be needed to catch up. in ideal case the attacker ship is right behind on the same axis which means that a=c but that would also mean that he is never being able to catch up as the speed factor can be counted out as it is the same on both ships. ridicolous that i even have to explain this.

This is all he is saying:

intersectingpaths.jpg

So I'm stupid huh? Fail in geometry huh? I think I provided plenty of examples as well as everyone else to prove this is possible. My examples might have been more complex than needed but Angel O2 Mercer's example above is very easy to understand. Also what country are you form so we can make fun of your education system?

i also added a complaint about harassment by the way. after first kill he came back to space station. waited for me to repair and fly again to shoot me down again while it being obvious i wasnt carrying loot as he didnt get anything on the first kill either. pure harassment

PVP dude, Morogth is allowed to shoot me down over and over because it's the nature of PVP. Don;t get your panties in a bunch when I decide to do the same to you.

btw is switching to copilot seat to hide the red pvp sign an exploit too or just being a poor coward?

You have to be kidding right?


Me Really Never less typing and more video posting :) we want to see me intercept you.
 
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Being a math nerd, I just want to say it's very difficult to hide my boner at work....
 
Perhaps this would put the math and distances into perspective.
Basically there can be a slight decrease in distance. I included the old rough & ready way of calculating the gain.

sidestrafingtrichording_a.jpg
 
I love how everyone thinks about it differently, the graphs and answers really give you an insight into how someones mind calculates these things :)
 
Also to address how a possible speed exploit works
- SideStrafing is pressing 2 buttons to increase speed. (forward speed + side speed)
- Trichroding is pressing 3 buttons. (forward speed + side speed +thrusters/booster/etc)

Within EU rapidly pressing the map on/off toggle button *likely can give some boost to speed
Same thing *likely happens if rapidly switching between 1st and 3rd person camera view
Also *likely happens if changing video settings.
Note other crytek games I play don't have that problem, so its MA coding issue.

sidestrafingtrichording_b.jpg


I wrote *likely happens based on the observation that spamming those buttons gets my avatar unstuck from rocks, trees, doorways and saves me the bother of spawning a vehicle (if possible) or using teleport chip (the hub)


Edit: Looked for but unable to find that posting last year of video showing 2 MS racing and testing the map button spam speed concept.
 
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Also to address how a possible speed exploit works
- SideStrafing is pressing 2 buttons to increase speed. (forward speed + side speed)
- Trichroding is pressing 3 buttons. (forward speed + side speed +thrusters/booster/etc)

Within EU rapidly pressing the map on/off toggle button *likely can give some boost to speed
Same thing *likely happens if rapidly switching between 1st and 3rd person camera view
Also *likely happens if changing video settings.
Note other crytek games I play don't have that problem, so its MA coding issue.

sidestrafingtrichording_b.jpg


I wrote *likely happens based on the observation that spamming those buttons gets my avatar unstuck from rocks, trees, doorways and saves me the bother of spawning a vehicle (if possible) or using teleport chip (the hub)


Edit: Looked for but unable to find that posting last year of video showing 2 MS racing and testing the map button spam speed concept.


There is no combination of buttons being pressed that will increase your speed in a quad in space. If you don't believe me try it, make a video of it and post it for everyone to see. This also includes the infamous map key.
 
There is no combination of buttons being pressed that will increase your speed in a quad in space. If you don't believe me try it, make a video of it and post it for everyone to see. This also includes the infamous map key.

How about things one can do to decrease their speed in space? ;)
 
It does mean if this is what you see someone doing and you still accuse them of exploiting then your either an idiot or a liar.

Not going to get into this, but the only issue with your chart is the key: Angle. Yes you are 100% right yet most of the time you see them coming straight from behind and still able to catch up to you. So the key here is if that video does show you coming at an angle or not. Also you have to remember, you may have done nothing yet you are in a soc that does it all the time. So as long as you stick with the king exploiters you will be called one.
 
Note other crytek games I play don't have that problem, so its MA coding issue.

Venturing a guess where this is coming from, it might be an attempt at compensation for delays caused by necessary client-server communication upon certain user actions which would disturb the experience as compared to real-world physics, where no such delay occurs. The amount of compensation needed depends on too many factors like network lag and so on which can change every second, therefore can only be determined heuristically. In the end they arrived at overcompensation to be on the safe side it seems, hence the resulting leap forward.

If this is so, I would suggest to ditch the whole circuit. The programmer who made it sure is proud of it, but there is no help since it introduced exploitability. So let there be a slight delay when the map is opened or a few other things, for which there is no legitimate reason to do them several times a second anyway. A simple patch with a cooldown timer for switching the map in space was already suggested, but if the previous is true, it would be a patch for a patch just to cancel each other out. Tossing it would make everybody's life easier.
 
There is no combination of buttons being pressed that will increase your speed in a quad in space. If you don't believe me try it, make a video of it and post it for everyone to see. This also includes the infamous map key.

I didn't say they increase speed that way currently, but from posts it appears some did occur at some point.
Listing them was to help clear the confusion and perhaps others more interested in space travel test them out.
And hopefully they'd report anything they find to MA ofc.


However last year there was a video showing 2 MS racing and they tried the rumored spamming the map button.
The distance gain was very very slight but it was measurable, can anyone confirm if that got fixed?

Also did anyone test if toggling 1st/3rd person view button does the same thing as it produces the same slight lurch effect when stuck on rocks/trees/etc? (same effect as toggling map button)
 
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