How Base DPP Affects Your Loot

I could see this working laser vs blp, unamped vs amped, melee vs firearms vs mindforce, high decay vs low decay. But eco vs. non eco makes, for me, no sense. MA rewarding with quality items if you spend less. :laugh:
Why would they build a system where the loot requires keeping track of what kind of tagger, main weapon and finisher (plus kill boosters like arso chips while using some blp pistol or shortblade) they use and how to really take that into consideration? Nope, too hard to code and adjust as new weapons/types/etc. it's just "how much health did they hit on this mob, and what's in it's loot table?"

What? Let's not leap to conclusions without hard evidence.
I'm referring to this ridiculous notion that DPP in and of itself somehow works as depth does in mining, and causes different items to appear in your loot window.
Oh, you mean like my too big amp test, and other tests I've done over the years, many of which I've posted on this forum?

Yes, there is evidence to suggest that the weapon you use (or more specifically, the amount of weapon decay/ammo you used) does affect things, and not just in the "more eco = better loot" way.

skills might also influence returns over time which could corrupt the data..
Skills only come into play when dealing with non-maxed weapons, evade/dodge, etc. which was very important in the first few years of the game, when most of us weren't able to have maxed weapons becuase we simply weren't lvl 100 yet. (sample tests here and here), but say with the Terminator, it doesn't matter if you are level 50 or 150 hit/dmg. (Except the obvious difference in health/evade,etc. but in raw weapon result, nope. Excess skills mean jack on maxed weapons.)

And with all (or vast majority) of us using maxed weapons, it's more a matter of hunt style, not just eco.
 
I'm actually about to believe that low dpp gun gives more ammo in loot compared to non-ammo stuff.
Since cycling more peds of ammo usually means more decay of other things (gun,fap, armor) which is ok for MA. So MA in theory would want that ppl not to go broke fast. Ideally, MA would want that ppl to be able to cycle looted ammo just as everybody else.
 
I'm actually about to believe that low dpp gun gives more ammo in loot compared to non-ammo stuff.
Since cycling more peds of ammo usually means more decay of other things (gun,fap, armor) which is ok for MA. So MA in theory would want that ppl not to go broke fast. Ideally, MA would want that ppl to be able to cycle looted ammo just as everybody else.

It really has more to do with resource caps than anything.. if looted components and such were based on cost to kill rather than kill, you could farm outputs from mobs with swine deluxe and do well. But typically you only get one output per kill, or this could be exploited.. so the extra person gave to come from somewhere aka shrapnel and ammo.
 
2) DPP MATTERS
Well...MA themselves told us this:

A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec.
I'm not saying don't test - of course, valuable insights could be gained from that! But I just wonder why people continue to question something that MindArk confirmed for us years ago.
 
Well...MA themselves told us this:


I'm not saying don't test - of course, valuable insights could be gained from that! But I just wonder why people continue to question something that MindArk confirmed for us years ago.

I think it's cause they don't read the part that says "over time"....people expect instant results...its the world we live in
 
I think it's cause they don't read the part that says "over time"....people expect instant results...its the world we live in

Yup.

When I get a bit of time I'll update the test. Let's just say the piron return is lower over time than the higher dpp LC-100 (now replaced with assault shotgun ten edition 2.99 dpp)
 
I think it's cause they don't read the part that says "over time"....people expect instant results...its the world we live in
Believe me, I get it. After all, I live in the USA - birthplace of the microwave. :rolleyes:
 
I have only been playing for about a week, but have been trying to research as much as I can via threads like these. The DPP discussion has been of interest to me as I try to build out my setup.

Although higher DPP offers an irrefutable mathematical advantage of more kills for the same price, I would like to believe that MindArk would level the TT return across the DPP range (as indeed seems to be indicated by many tests), from a strictly philosophical perspective.

I've spent more hours than I'd like to admit on Entropedia looking at the rather massive number of weapons available in this game, trying to put together what will provide the best economy for my skill level. Depending on how you define "good" DPP, let's say 2.9+, my observation has been that the vast majority of weapons fall into the un-economical category. If there was a TT return advantage to higher DPP, it would mean that MindArk has purposefully created most of the weapons in the game as a trap to drain extra PEDs from us. I realize they are Swedish, but surely they can't be that immoral?
 
I will repeat this once more: Mindark changed the loot system recently to a dpp model.

Now anyone who hunts below the highest available dpp setup will be losing out over time.

Therefore the dpp system ultimately is a pyramid system, where the highest dpp holders win.

Have people not noticed some of the game's best players are using setups that achieve 3.7dpp?

One player posted how he achieved a TT surplus of over 5000 PED, but how is that even possible?

How is it that they can draw out more loot than gets put into the loot pool I wonder? Well because their eco allows them to draw from other players who play at a lower dpp, it is that simple and the system then punishes the rest. They get over 100% TT and the rest now get below 100% everyone is happy.

But hey let us see who smells the coffee and finally wakes up lol.
 
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I will repeat this once more: Mindark changed the loot system recently to a dpp model.

Now anyone who hunts below the highest available dpp setup will be losing out over time.

Therefore the dpp system ultimately is a pyramid system, where the highest dpp holders win.

Have people not noticed some of the game's best players are using setups that achieve 3.7dpp?

One player posted how he achieved a TT surplus of over 5000 PED, but how is that even possible?

How is it that they can draw out more loot than gets put into the loot pool I wonder? Well because their eco allows them to draw from other players who play at a lower dpp, it is that simple and the system then punishes the rest. They get over 100% TT and the rest now get below 100% everyone is happy.

But hey let us see who smells the coffee and finally wakes up lol.

This was not a recent change. You've been playing the same (or very similar) loot system since you started.
 
I have only been playing for about a week, but have been trying to research as much as I can via threads like these. The DPP discussion has been of interest to me as I try to build out my setup.

Although higher DPP offers an irrefutable mathematical advantage of more kills for the same price, I would like to believe that MindArk would level the TT return across the DPP range (as indeed seems to be indicated by many tests), from a strictly philosophical perspective.

I've spent more hours than I'd like to admit on Entropedia looking at the rather massive number of weapons available in this game, trying to put together what will provide the best economy for my skill level. Depending on how you define "good" DPP, let's say 2.9+, my observation has been that the vast majority of weapons fall into the un-economical category. If there was a TT return advantage to higher DPP, it would mean that MindArk has purposefully created most of the weapons in the game as a trap to drain extra PEDs from us. I realize they are Swedish, but surely they can't be that immoral?

Your logic fails to incorporate the 15 years this game has been running. What once was acceptable (non-SIB, 2.5 dpp) is now not acceptable.
 
I will repeat this once more: Mindark changed the loot system recently to a dpp model.

Now anyone who hunts below the highest available dpp setup will be losing out over time.

Therefore the dpp system ultimately is a pyramid system, where the highest dpp holders win.

Have people not noticed some of the game's best players are using setups that achieve 3.7dpp?

One player posted how he achieved a TT surplus of over 5000 PED, but how is that even possible?

How is it that they can draw out more loot than gets put into the loot pool I wonder? Well because their eco allows them to draw from other players who play at a lower dpp, it is that simple and the system then punishes the rest. They get over 100% TT and the rest now get below 100% everyone is happy.

But hey let us see who smells the coffee and finally wakes up lol.

This is basically true.. but there also seems to be a dps factor built in somewhere...

basically that more dps or faster ped cycling = bigger chance for the large multis.. some combo of massive dps + long hours of grinding + good dpp should bring greater returns.
 
I'm not saying don't test - of course, valuable insights could be gained from that! But I just wonder why people continue to question something that MindArk confirmed for us years ago.

Because they're still trying to beat the system, with some method which is contrary to the regular (high DPP).

This happens a lot in real life too. People are stupid :)
 
This is basically true.. but there also seems to be a dps factor built in somewhere...

basically that more dps or faster ped cycling = bigger chance for the large multis.. some combo of massive dps + long hours of grinding + good dpp should bring greater returns.

Youre almost there.. now think resource availability...
 
This is basically true.. but there also seems to be a dps factor built in somewhere...

basically that more dps or faster ped cycling = bigger chance for the large multis.. some combo of massive dps + long hours of grinding + good dpp should bring greater returns.

Erroneous.
 
Because they're still trying to beat the system, with some method which is contrary to the regular (high DPP).

This happens a lot in real life too. People are stupid :)

Well, I didn't know mindark confirmed this already but if I could only tell you all the people during my experiment who gave me false information purposefully....
 
Well, I didn't know mindark confirmed this already but if I could only tell you all the people during my experiment who gave me false information purposefully....

Of course they did, because a lot of people are c**ts too ;)

You know me though, and you've seen what I've posted here. In fact, check your PM :)
 
Well, I didn't know mindark confirmed this already

4 years ago, in this post:
Efficiency Matters - One issue that we have noticed being discussed quite frequently on community forums such as PlanetCalypsoForm.com is the concept of efficiency...

Not quoting the part that matters, because I figure folks should at least be non-lazy enough to be able to click the given link to read what matters. :)

Seriously though, advanced search "developer" in the title by Bertha Bot in order to get all the Developer Notes MA finally did long ago. Good info straight from the companies mouth. :yup:
 
4 years ago, in this post:


Not quoting the part that matters, because I figure folks should at least be non-lazy enough to be able to click the given link to read what matters. :)

Seriously though, advanced search "developer" in the title by Bertha Bot in order to get all the Developer Notes MA finally did long ago. Good info straight from the companies mouth. :yup:

To be picky.... MA never explicitly says that "damage per pec spent" is what "efficiency" is... stated that efficiency matters while defining it so loosely means nothing. Hence why dps, cycle speed, and hours spent grinding matters. Without massive hofs mostly every player can achieve 90-95% returns. Getting over that hump requires hitting big community hofs. I've spoken on this before but I can't be more specific because I'm too lazy to spend the time and ped testing.

Hunting itself is broken so idgaf anymore really.
 
Agree with Rocket, I've read the developer statement and they do not specifically say that "damage per pec" is how they define efficiency.

We would like to state here very clearly that avatar skills and efficiency on the tools used do indeed matter a great deal, and have a very significant effect on overall returns in all Entropia Universe professions.

The phrase "skills and efficiency on the tools" could simply be referring to the use of maxed/unmaxed weapons, but it's open to interpretation regardless.

Personally I do think DPP matters, I'm just being pedantic because I don't believe this quote is empirical evidence.
 
Agree with Rocket, I've read the developer statement and they do not specifically say that "damage per pec" is how they define efficiency.



The phrase "skills and efficiency on the tools" could simply be referring to the use of maxed/unmaxed weapons, but it's open to interpretation regardless.

Personally I do think DPP matters, I'm just being pedantic because I don't believe this quote is empirical evidence.

In this very thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ts-Your-Loot&p=3519994&viewfull=1#post3519994

Bertha Bot said:
A second and very important part of efficient hunting is to consider the relative cost of using a particular weapon, often referred to as weapon economy, usually measured as damage per PEC. This measures how efficiently, in terms of weapon decay and ammo consumption, a weapon produces each point of damage. An avatar will enjoy much better overall hunting results over time when using weapons with higher damage per pec.

Could they make it any clearer for anyone? :girl:
 
If there was a TT return advantage to higher DPP, it would mean that MindArk has purposefully created most of the weapons in the game as a trap to drain extra PEDs from us. I realize they are Swedish, but surely they can't be that immoral?

It is important to realize you should not be playing vs. Mind Ark, you should be playing vs. all the other players.

Suppose the average hunter is able to achieve an average DPP of 2.5 and you are able to achieve 2.7, you will do significantly better than them and because of trends in markup will likely profit where they will loose.

Now suppose you move the entire populations average DPP up to 2.85 and you also upgrade to 2.9 DPP, you will be doing better than the average hunter, and you probably/maybe be getting better TT returns, BUT markup trends will now be against you, and you will almost certainly be loosing after markup.

Mind Ark has provided us with the weapons to shoot ourselves in the feet with. By chasing the highest possible DPP and pushing it so close to the limit for everyone we have reduced a majority of markup in the game and reduced it to a TT vs. TT game which we are doomed to loose.

Markup vs. Markup is a Player vs. Player game
TT vs. TT is a Player vs. Mind Ark game
We can never win vs. Mind Ark, we can only win vs. other players.
 
In this very thread:

SSShhh, don't spoil it. I wanted to see who would do their homework and actually read the notes, even above and beyond the one I linked too. :vampire: :nana:
 
they could be merely stating that you'll get more consistent results.. not higher results.. all depends on how they define "better."

Regardless... dpp matters... even if it's only part of the equation.

Thats the thing, its just a part of a big puzzle of fun stuff to conscider :)

I can from a pretty big turnover with a hard to beat result say that DPP for sure aint the only thing that matters :confused:

//Linz
 
It is important to realize you should not be playing vs. Mind Ark, you should be playing vs. all the other players.

Suppose the average hunter is able to achieve an average DPP of 2.5 and you are able to achieve 2.7, you will do significantly better than them and because of trends in markup will likely profit where they will loose.

Now suppose you move the entire populations average DPP up to 2.85 and you also upgrade to 2.9 DPP, you will be doing better than the average hunter, and you probably/maybe be getting better TT returns, BUT markup trends will now be against you, and you will almost certainly be loosing after markup.

Mind Ark has provided us with the weapons to shoot ourselves in the feet with. By chasing the highest possible DPP and pushing it so close to the limit for everyone we have reduced a majority of markup in the game and reduced it to a TT vs. TT game which we are doomed to loose.

Markup vs. Markup is a Player vs. Player game
TT vs. TT is a Player vs. Mind Ark game
We can never win vs. Mind Ark, we can only win vs. other players.

It's been affected also by lowering demand on mats via other things but couldn't agree more.

Good post
 
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Thats the thing, its just a part of a big puzzle of fun stuff to conscider :)

I can from a pretty big turnover with a hard to beat result say that DPP for sure aint the only thing that matters :confused:

//Linz

Precisely my point. Dpp just might help a bit, but turnover, dps, time, location, and mob all factor in. Grinding bad mobs with good dpp and nothing else won't necessary yield positive results.
 
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