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Suggestion: loot 2.0 was a mistake, make loot 3.0 or undo loot 2.0

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wizz said:
Making (serious) money in entropia is not meant for the masses.
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I agree with this (and a few other points you made).

What I don't get is why the actual fuck does this have to be a topic in every hunting thread??? "what pays more - a job or this game". The answer is obvious in most cases. However, the most difficult task in this game for a new player up to mid level is to get to a sustainability point, then be in profit. That's what's about. This is still a game and people make it an excuse for the failure of understanding it - yeah but a job is better. If you need money to live, yes, it is better to have a job. Hundreds and thousands of players are extremely wealthy IRL, good for them, but bringing that into threads about hunting where people try to learn the ropes, is stupid and only show that sour grapes is the only route people choose instead of actually learning something. Rick's case, he's using his IRL as an excuse for never being able to learn the game. I'm happy Rick is having a wonderful life IRL but I'm not so happy he's constantly shitting on the game because he doesn't get it and I'm hoping new players can see through his BS.

Rick is usually totally wrong but the following are true:
1. A job is better if you need money, in most cases;
2. You can play this game for free (get to a sustainability point and stay there for long periods of time - there are many players here) or even profit (constantly increase the value of your avatar, ped card, assets etc.) but this is very subjective - because while always loosing, never being to a point of sustainability, some ppl rather continue to loose rather than profiting 100 ped per hunt because 100 ped is too little. And they make 300k a year IRL and bring that in the forum.....
3. A lot of people that profit in the game do so without EU being their main thing...
4. How to get to point 2, refer to Katie's post on the previous page, the secret is revealed there.
 
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Great post Evey. I've been thinking a lot about people being right or wrong - and why/how, when they sometimes manage to be right, they often throw away the usefullness of it all by proceeding to be wrong all over again straight away afterwards.

"The secret is to bang the rocks together guys". (quote from a great analyser of systems and super-funny author to boot - sorely missed!)
I sometimes want to bang heads together when everyone in an argument seems to have at least one major wobbly in their thinking.
However, I do over time form an idea of who generally makes sense and who doesn't, which has nothing to do with whether I like them or not, as liking is based on other criteria for me than the "rightness" of statements. [edit: You know how Rowling's favourite house is Hufflepuff and not Griffindor? Maybe it's a bit like that...]

I wish there were a tool for people to 'score' elements of texts to try and disentangle right from wrong. Are there any pads out there that allow colour changes to accrue as people agree or disagree with specific parts of texts? That may also help people who write a great deal, think they are consistent in what they write, but actually aren't?
 
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MrFatBoy said:
you spend 1000's and 1000's of $ to get skilled and will still be behind those "ubers"
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Success the accomplishment of an aim or purpose. I believe setting as a goal to be the first/the best is going to consume more of you than it would consume if you would set as a goal to do good for yourself. So rather than quitting because you can never be as good as X, maybe play and aim to do good for your avatar and your ped card. Do the little things that pay short and mid term and long term will be great because you took the right decisions.
Just as aiming for ATH is going to be extremely costly :D
The big game (of sustainability or profit) is in opportunities, while abiding by the game's rules / dpp prior to loot 2.0 and effi + looter after.
 
Alukat123 said:
Higher mobs should ofc have higher items and no longer drop low level mob stuff, assuring that there's some gain for higher players without hurting new players...
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This is all the way back in the OP. It relates to how new players should not be 'trodden on' by more powerful players for whatever reason. Like should be able to compete with like through the very long progression of the game and thus higher players should not really be competing for the same mu as low players.
I do see elements of this in personally not getting esi drops (any more), nor tier components above lvl3 most of the time. In that respect I would seem to be moving backwards compared to the mus available to higher players, but like many players, I seem to be caught in a mid-level rut. I thus tend to aim a bit low, which is not good for those 'behind me'.

Maybe originally the idea was for most players to accept reasonable tt losses in return for avatar skills with a use and theoretical mu if chipped out. I know we can't all chip out, but some people do wish to chip in, so there should be a balance of sorts. At the moment the difference between esi mu and skills market value is low, I would say. I am also progressing very slowly if I keep my turnover low, which I do to limit ped drain. I would prefer to move faster and not tread on the same territory as newer players, yes, but at the moment all I seem not to be doing at low levels is sweating...
 
Evey said:
try to learn the game from those that have some experience.
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This is the objection that I have with most of what the messi'ahs posts. Rick DOES have experience. His experience is what 97% of the Entropia Player base has. The patronizing tone that you do it better than 97% in here. Rick has been around for years. Kerham has been around for years. I have been around for years. We know how to play this game. And yeah I got lucky and got profit as well. But it was that, luck. There is no golden goose.
My advice: If you want to play for free, seek the investment options and play a bit with the income it makes. If you want to profit, invest and take the ped out of the game.
The Wargames quote applies to Entropia the most: "Strange game, the only winning move, is not to play"


I
 
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I got an idea!! Lets rename Loot 2.0 to Boob 2.0. Everyone wants more Boob. We could even call our stacks Boobaliscious and pray to Boobius for more Boobs. At least then the normies will understand what we love about this game!
 
Spawn said:
This is the objection that I have with most of what the messi'ahs posts. Rick DOES have experience. His experience is what 97% of the Entropia Player base has. The patronizing tone that you do it better than 97% in here. Rick has been around for years. Kerham has been around for years. I have been around for years. We know how to play this game. And yeah I got lucky and got profit as well. But it was that, luck. There is no golden goose.
My advice: If you want to play for free, seek the investment options and play a bit with the income it makes. If you want to profit, invest and take the ped out of the game.
The Wargames quote applies to Entropia the most: "Strange game, the only way to win, is not to play"

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Growing up as a noob, breaking all threads in the game I was looking up to all your threads and posts, even if you were using a patronizing tone, I thought it was ok, being the perk of knowledge... at the time your posts were making a lot of sense to me and I learned a few things every time I came across such threads where people debated... up until a point, you said in a post "echo shmecho" referring to dpp not having any impact in loot, before loot 2.0. Luckily, even as a noob, I knew better, from other people that were doing good, I did my tests and was starting to see some results. I was very surprised, that a hunter I was looking up to was making such a statement, when things seemed clear for me after a ton of reading, asking - yes, I did ask a lot of ubers all the noob questions in the book and I am thankful some had the patience to explain it to me, gained good friends in the process, I recommend this tactic. So yes, playing for many years and having a bit of luck does not mean you know how it works... Doing same mistake over and over, loosing on everything you try, does not mean you know how to play this game when all you do is blame it and call it broken.
So you see, there's knowing o play the game and there's knowing to play the game...

Doing pretty much the opposite of what you describe here, I found a golden goose. Never relying on luck, or taking it into account, never investing in ... options, only in gear.


& more boobs ftw, I agree!
 
Evey said:
Growing up as a noob, breaking all threads in the game I was looking up to all your threads and posts, even if you were using a patronizing tone, I thought it was ok, being the perk of knowledge... at the time your posts were making a lot of sense to me and I learned a few things every time I came across such threads where people debated... up until a point, you said in a post "echo shmecho" referring to dpp not having any impact in loot, before loot 2.0. Luckily, even as a noob, I knew better, from other people that were doing good, I did my tests and was starting to see some results. I was very surprised, that a hunter I was looking up to was making such a statement, when things seemed clear for me after a ton of reading, asking - yes, I did ask a lot of ubers all the noob questions in the book and I am thankful some had the patience to explain it to me, gained good friends in the process, I recommend this tactic. So yes, playing for many years and having a bit of luck does not mean you know how it works... Doing same mistake over and over, loosing on everything you try, does not mean you know how to play this game when all you do is blame it and call it broken.
So you see, there's knowing o play the game and there's knowing to play the game...

Doing pretty much the opposite of what you describe here, I found a golden goose. Never relying on luck, or taking it into account, never investing in ... options, only in gear.


& more boobs ftw, I agree!
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Again Evey, if it was all as you wrote it is, the game would be doomed.
Tell me, how would it possible for EVERYBODY to profit? Even if they would follow all the same steps that you made.
Were would all the money come from if we all would profit?
Who would pay for those profits? We all know for sure MA is not paying a single pec!

You only profit be the grace of another mans loss.

You don't profit TT wise. Impossible with loot 2.0 unless you're very lucky and keep hitting big.
But overall, you will ALWAYS lose out TT wise. Even with the most fancy gear available.
The only thing that tips the balance to profit is MU. Which is paid for by others. So without the others who buy your stuff (and who lose) you will not make profit.


You are right though, that if you always lose and keep moaning about it, it's the wrong way to play and you'd better quit.
Some only speak about mankroll management.
I would personally prefer to speak about expectation management.

This game is set to make EVERYBODY lose on the long run.
So expect a loss and learn to deal with that.
If you can't deal with that, you can do 2 things.
Quit playing, or try other ways to compensate.
And the "other ways" can be your way, endless grinding with uber gear and hope to get enough MU to compensate.
Or to do other things like trading, investing in deeds or whatever other service you can think of.

And sure, this way it's possible to play for free or to even profit.
But I guess for most it would simply be the wisest and easiest to accept the loss and get a good paying job to compensate these losses as long as you enjoy yourself.

So, if you're a real die hard, listen to Evey.
For the more casual player, listen to Rick and get a job ;)


I personally went for the investment way. Had the luck to buy a ton of stuff in the old day which generate huge profits without a single mob killed.
Converted it all to deeds and enjoy the weekly income.
That income can be my loss in hunting.
But I guess not everybody wants to spend thousands of dollars to buy deeds. I can totally understand that!
 
Evey said:
Never relying on luck, or taking it into account, never investing in ...
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There's randomness involved... so ofc there's luck involved for you too... and that's a major mistake people like you and messi are doing, confusing luck for having more knowledge or being more skilled...

anyway, the subject of this topic is people with very big financial investments gettings too many benefits...
 
Alukat123 said:
anyway, the subject of this topic is people with very big financial investments gettings too many benefits...
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yup, just like the real world.
The world has never been a fair place and will never be.
Not in the past, not now, not in the future.

Money makes money.


entropia is just like the real world and no expception ;)
 
wizz said:
yup, just like the real world.
The world has never been a fair place and will never be.
Not in the past, not now, not in the future.

Money makes money.
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only as long as the majority of people allow that to happen ;)
 
Alukat123 said:
only as long as the majority of people allow that to happen ;)
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Well, the majority does.
Always have, always will.

Sorry for not being an idealistic dreamer. More like a realist ;)
 
I feel this thread is about to get awfully political... Oh dear.
FYI Nothing wrong with capitalism, or investors expecting more benefits than the average Joe Blow who's got no exposure.
 
Alukat123 said:
self-fullfilling prophecy... you tell them to better resignate than changing it, so it won't change...
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not so much a "self fullfilling prohpecy" but more a vicious circle.
It's not a prophecy that will happen. It's already happening and it always has been happening.
 
Alukat123 said:
self-fullfilling prophecy... you tell them to better resignate than changing it, so it won't change...
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not so much a "self fullfilling prohpecy" but more a vicious circle.
It's not a prophecy that will happen. It's already happening and it always has been happening.


Katie Chalmers said:
I feel this thread is about to get awfully political... Oh dear.
FYI Nothing wrong with capitalism, or investors expecting more benefits than the average Joe Blow who's got no exposure.
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nah, dont worry about that. Was just stating the obvious ;)
 
Katie Chalmers said:
FYI Nothing wrong with capitalism, or investors expecting more benefits than the average Joe Blow who's got no exposure.
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i didn't want to get that political here... but capitalism and money makes people stupid....

nothing wrong with investores gettings some benefits (like chance for better MU loot, higher huntings speed), but it's wrong if they get benefits in every aspect of the game.
 
wizz said:
not so much a "self fullfilling prohpecy" but more a vicious circle.
It's not a prophecy that will happen. It's already happening and it always has been happening.
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but you claim it will also happen in the future, which makes it prophecy.
 
Entropia.... no place like it. It's the only environment I know of that is advertised as "a virtual world with a RCE" where you can make money whilst near on the entire community strives to lose less than the next guy. Strives to great extents, buy a mod fap - that will save me X amount and take me in to profit.... no it won't - it really won't. Loot 1 or 2 or 3 isn't going to change the fact that the game needs to be scaled and the chances are that you are not going to be on the good side of that scale are overwhelming. The problem here isn't make/lose money....
.....
......
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Its how much you will lose in a very short period of time that is the problem. And Entropia - you fail horribly at this. As a micro transaction game you make even EA look like saints in this department. At least EA label it "surprise mechanics" when they are robbing the hell out of their playerbase for chance related gains... EU its just a given that you will do the same thing as last month and lose a few hundred dollars... or try something new and get additionally screwed.
.....
Yes, its easy to lose $1000's in EU - and it's designed so the majority of players do just that.
 
Alukat123 said:
There's randomness involved... so ofc there's luck involved for you too... and that's a major mistake people like you and messi are doing, confusing luck for having more knowledge or being more skilled...

anyway, the subject of this topic is people with very big financial investments gettings too many benefits...
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Everything I have is grinded from scraps. I added 25k PED from card across 3-4 years for some boxes, after that I only add some boxes from money I withdraw. I believe there are a gazillion peeps buying everything in first week then didn't do much else but loose, because just like you, they thought big guns and luck does the trick.
It's the consistency that matter, not the luck. Being consistent doing the right things will make the lucky hits just be the cherry on top of the cake.

No Wizz, I never said everyone could profit, but it's pretty easy not to loose if you do some simple things. So simple, yet so complicated for some that seems easier to make rocks understand better...
 
wizz said:
Tell me, how would it possible for EVERYBODY to profit? Even if they would follow all the same steps that you made.
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Understand it correctly.
Anybody can profit, not everybody at the same time.
There is simply not enough loot 2.0 weapons, looter skills and MU for everybody to profit at the same time.

He means anybody can profit, just need high eff 2.0 gear, time or more investment for looter skills and some knowledge about what to hunt for MU.
Idk what profit can be reached by this, probably more than what an average poor country salary is, and probably less than a very well paid job in Sweden for example.
 
Evey said:
it's pretty easy not to loose if you do some simple things. So simple, yet so complicated for some that seems easier to make rocks understand better...
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Surely the easiest way not to lose is not to play? Because I'm sensing some bullshit from a self-made profiteer of riches from actions such as sweating or finding caroots - when the leci to run your puta is more than you have ever dragged out of the game. The only way to actually profit from the game is to avoid the game mechanics (or quit if you get lucky due to the variance) or extract it directly from your fellow players either by reselling or selling for markup.
 
Evey said:
I believe there are a gazillion peeps buying everything in first week then didn't do much else but loose, because just like you, they thought big guns and luck does the trick.
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the difference is, i'm not loosing.
Why do you always assume i would be loosing when i just point out issues with the game? troll much?

I know the game well enough to know that big investments gives a lot of benefits, from potentially better MU over more flexibility to higher tt-returns.
 
Alukat123 said:
i didn't want to get that political here... but capitalism and money makes people stupid....

nothing wrong with investores gettings some benefits (like chance for better MU loot, higher huntings speed), but it's wrong if they get benefits in every aspect of the game.
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They don't.
Haven't you listened to Ricks story?
That dude deposited so much more than I did.
And did he get more privileges, loot or whatever then I did?
He hunted with weapons I could never afford. But still he seems to lose more.
So, I can fairly surely tell that money doesnt give benefits in every aspect of this game
Using a brain does. And having money surely helps a lot!! But just money? No, that wont help you here.

Alukat123 said:
but you claim it will also happen in the future, which makes it prophecy.
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Nope. A prophecy is a prediction that it will happen in the future. But since it's already happening, it cant be a prophecy, right?
 
1 in a thousand in the topics is for a happy person who is happy with his huge loss... I would like to have some of this marijuana... if he reappears in the forum ask him where can i find his drug dealer.

Messi give us advice .. I would bribe you with 50 likes!
 
Loot 1.00 or 2.00 it doesn't matter, the basics remain the same... a very few (if any) consistently make money from EU. Almost everybody loses. The only consistent winner is EU. Because its so bad EU will never be a popular game so we have a small pool of extreme players....the rest just go on to other things - hence EU low population, rubbish economy and constant lose $ outlook
 
Tekkie said:
Surely the easiest way not to lose is not to play?
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For a lazy person it would be yeah. Most things would be easiest not to be started.
Each must decide for him/herself if it's worth it or not, an hour, 3 5 or 12.
But when your relationship with the game is in a toxic place, it would definitely be better to stay out of it.
The real BS is telling people this game is doomed (we keep hearing it for nearly 20 yers) and that it's impossible to do anything - the sour grapes thingy.

[Moderated: Removed rule violation]
 
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Evey said:
Your investments usually mean more clicks to get the multiplier
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Let's not forget that there are still people who do not distinguish between a browser and the Internet. MA fights against those who can play... the problem is in the majority who are unable to survive here. This does not give me an incentive to progress.
 
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