Suggestion: loot 2.0 was a mistake, make loot 3.0 or undo loot 2.0

Status
With the amount of flexibility and diversity $100k would buy you, it's very difficult to lose if you have some patience, know what items to go for and hardly tt anything.

The more money you have, the easier it becomes to profit or break even.
true but my point is (i think i have a point here somewhere :) that the costs are so insane to even compete just at even lower levels that most will just give up and leave. If that continues then a player that has been doing good will eventfully be the one losing. So to be "safe" you need to get into the top 5 or 10? top 20? to win the nice high MU stuff. that's probably not doable anymore without exploiting cheating or getting really really lucky, which seems to be even harder to get.
 
a noob question to all those that always tell others that "you to can profit or play close to free" your just not adapting etc...

how could MA survive if everyone adapted and can break even or profit?


Ah. This is another one of those common misconceptions around here. Saying "you can profit if you adapt" is not the same as saying "everyone can profit if all of you adapt"
 
Ah. This is another one of those common misconceptions around here. Saying "you can profit if you adapt" is not the same as saying "everyone can profit if all of you adapt"

but if you tell everyone "you can profit if you adapt" it's the same as "everyone can profit if all of you adapt"
 
But what are you talking about.
Today I didn't see a single hunter on the field again, but I did see a miner... I was very excited that someone else was playing.
Maybe I should hunt at Calypso's Kerbs, but last time I saw a group of enthusiasts killing a mob with a collective fart.
Maybe this is the adaptation you're talking about, but I don't like the smell of it.
 
Guess it was a question and some ranting :)
In your post you keep implying that hofs are what it's needed in order to break even... which is false 100%. If you are getting obsessed with hofs, ath, multi, it's too late I'm afraid.
Saying money alone is what you need to do well is also bs, best gear in the game cannot break even on atrox or feffox... Adapting means to find a good niche for you to farm for good markup. Enough markup to cover your losses and also bring you profit on medium term. This means the short term losses should be accepted. You cannot profit at the end of every 24hours.
MA takes a cut from decay, not loot. Even if the vast majority cannot break even in tt, many can and are breaking even with markup, especially in hunting where below 97% means terrible loot for serious hunters. And only the really determined ones constantly profit on the med and long term. And they are not only a few.
Profitting well does not equal to withdrawing more than depositting because people keep gear, stacks, orders, invest more in various assets for a better return on their money. You could deposit $10, get a 200 ped global, withdraw and be on tekkie's list of awesome ppl that withdraw more than they deposit :D D but that's a cool thing only in his book, or you could profit 200k a year and make that 200k work for you even further...
 
When I see this thing 100 times, it's hard for me to believe in a balance of 100k +.
This is part of the current loot which is calculated for MU profit.
I even stopped putting 100 ped in the auction because it is impossible to sell.

index.php
 
When I see this thing 100 times, it's hard for me to believe in a balance of 100k +.
This is part of the current loot which is calculated for MU profit.
I even stopped putting 100 ped in the auction because it is impossible to sell.

index.php
This proves nothing. We all have expired auctions. There are tens of thousands of PEDs worth of extractors and paints in people's storages and very few have good use. Most of ppl TT that shit, some keep it until it piles too much... If that is the main resource you're farming, which I'm sure is not, then you are doing a very bad job. Adapting means to find that resource that is easily sellable for markup. And yeah, I hate it too when I loot extractors and paints and other useless stuff...

IRL financial advisors cost a lot. Information is free on this forum and plentiful. It's like money on your pocket and people still choose to whine.... I don't understand... I do understand your desire to bring everyone down at your level so it's easier for you to cope with the fact that it's ...not working but the truth is that it's up to you if it's working for you or not.

Since wise players have always been called "chosen" let's call other people, to not insult them, "cursed" and be done with it :)
 
but if you tell everyone "you can profit if you adapt" it's the same as "everyone can profit if all of you adapt"


Except it isn't.

Telling everyone "you can profit if you adapt" is the same as "anyone can profit if they adapt" but not the same as "everyone can profit if everyone adapts".

I'm going to say this once again in somewhat plain words, and then I'll try to avoid ever saying it again:

This game is about finding opportunities in which you can make the most money out of other participants. Your job is to find these opportunities, capitalize as much as possible on them. Items and skills provide the means to stay profitable on opportunities longer than other participants.

In short, once again: Get Bankroll, Get Efficiency, Get Looter, Get DPP, Get DPS. Hunt the right mobs.
That is about the easiest way I can explain hunting in this game.

DPS gives you access to more opportunities. (Also provides other benefits that are very important, but i'd imagine that would complicate things too much)
Efficiency, Looter and DPP allows you to stay competitive in said opportunities.
Bankroll is Bankroll, no need to explain.
 
Please do not take on the role of a "gizmo" who advises us to start work to pay the MA.

This is a topic for Loot 2.0, which does not have a good enough MU, and people who are not at level 100 even calculate shrapnel as a Markup to reduce their loss. We are not even talking about profit.

These elements are part of the system. The auction is part of the system. Which does not work.
This is not my problem and this is not an adaptation, this is a broken system.
 
Except it isn't.

Telling everyone "you can profit if you adapt" is the same as "anyone can profit if they adapt" but not the same as "everyone can profit if everyone adapts".

I'm going to say this once again in somewhat plain words, and then I'll try to avoid ever saying it again:

This game is about finding opportunities in which you can make the most money out of other participants. Your job is to find these opportunities, capitalize as much as possible on them. Items and skills provide the means to stay profitable on opportunities longer than other participants.

In short, once again: Get Bankroll, Get Efficiency, Get Looter, Get DPP, Get DPS. Hunt the right mobs.
That is about the easiest way I can explain hunting in this game.

DPS gives you access to more opportunities. (Also provides other benefits that are very important, but i'd imagine that would complicate things too much)
Efficiency, Looter and DPP allows you to stay competitive in said opportunities.
Bankroll is Bankroll, no need to explain.


I will tell you more clearly.

When I find an MU element through which I make a profit, after 1 week it is "fixed" by MA.
 
Please do not take on the role of a "gizmo" who advises us to start work to pay the MA.

This is a topic for Loot 2.0, which does not have a good enough MU, and people who are not at level 100 even calculate shrapnel as a Markup to reduce their loss. We are not even talking about profit.

These elements are part of the system. The auction is part of the system. Which does not work.
This is not my problem and this is not an adaptation, this is a broken system.
But Alukat says there's enough MU and that the MU is not the problem :D as if that would make any sense AT ALL! :))))
For Alukat - enough MU means it coves your tt loss and puts you in profit.
For Deemer - your inability to find MU enough to satisfy your time spent ingame is YOUR problem. Do something else instead of farming extractors...
MA's problem is to create enough opportunities for more "cursed" people to jump into "chosen" people category but they can never tell you how to do it... you can read on the forums how to do it, but then again, your .. curse, prevents you from thinking so it's like a cursed circle... :D
 
Last edited:
Ex


DPS gives you access to more opportunities. (Also provides other benefits that are very important, but i'd imagine that would complicate things too much)
Efficiency, Looter and DPP allows you to stay competitive in said opportunities.

Looks like DPS work only by Looter 100+.. for all others is even worse, except through a wave once by month.
 
This is a topic for Loot 2.0, which does not have a good enough MU, and people who are not at level 100 even calculate shrapnel as a Markup to reduce their loss
There are mobs out there that provide the means to break even at mid level range, with sub-optimal setups. in loot 2.0. No idea what it's like in the lower dps-ranges.

Of course you should calculate shrapnel as MU. As a ranged hunter shrapnel is 1% mu. As anything that doesn't use ammo, shrapnel is like what 0.4-0.5% mu?
This is part of the reason why some melee is cheaper than ranged alternatives. Average MU with a non-ammo melee setup is lower.

You put something in, you get something out, you click a couple of buttons and now it's worth 1% more, it is no different from using the auctioneer (except you don't have to pay a fee to do it.)

When I find an MU element through which I make a profit, after 1 week it is "fixed" by MA.
If MA does it, or players do it, doesn't matter. If it doesn't work anymore, find something else. (Just don't give up too easily, because sometimes things aren't what they seem)

Okay. That's enough. Best of luck to everyone!
 
But Alukat says there's enough MU and that the MU is not the proble :D as if that would make any sense AT ALL! :))))
For Alukat - enough MU means it coves your tt loss and puts you in profit.
For Deemer - your inability to find MU enough to satisfy your time spent ingame is YOUR problem. Do something else instead of farming extractors...
MA's problem is to create enough opportunities for more "cursed" people to jump into "chosen" people category but they can never tell you how to do it... you can read on the forums how to do it, but then again, your .. curse, prevents you from thinking so it's like a cursed circle... :D


Extractors are my favorite.
The EU is a great platform that everyone is happy with.

Is this the conclusion you came to?
 
Extractors are my favorite.
The EU is a great platform that everyone is happy with.

Is this the conclusion you came to?
Not at all.

I already said I'm sure it's not your main resource, just that it's a very stupid example to give.

EU is a platform. Some are happy, most are not. Jumping from cursed to chosen is not hard, but not easy either but entirely up to you.
If you are not happy, staying here and crying about it is really lame, just don't get to the point where others are that their only goal in life is to cry about how great EU used to be 15 years ago, do yourself a favor and do some stuff you enjoy more, like walking to the beach as Rick indicated...
 
When I find an MU element through which I make a profit, after 1 week it is "fixed" by MA.
I can confirm this since it happened to me several times. For example, for a week or two I can loot a certain rare BP from a certain BP, then it doesn't work anymore no matter how much and how long I try, I even loose more PED trying to loot that BP once again, more than I got from selling 2-3 of them before, but it's pointless. It's like my avatar has been banned from looting that BP or something, and while I don't think they do these things manually for every player, it's still weird AF. Like why, how??
 
EU is similar to RL
1% are billionaires

"Chosen" = Smart, More IQ, understanding the system
 
Telling everyone "you can profit if you adapt" is the same as "anyone can profit if they adapt" but not the same as "everyone can profit if everyone adapts".

no. If you tell everyone (100% of the players) they can profit if they adapt, then your saying 100% of the players can profit and we all know that's just impossible, someone needs to have losses to provide the peds for the profits of the others.
 
Last edited:
i doubt they are smart or have more IQ, imo, the determining factor is they're ruthless and antisocial
The trick is to think rationally and not base every decision on emotion
 
The trick is to think rationally and not base every decision on emotion

but billionaires don't think rationally overall. Elon Musk is a prime example there. Cryptocurrency is stupid as well
 
Last edited:
...going to have to chip in to this discussion on the basis of: I can't let it be - someone is wrong on the Internet!
Telling everybody something is not the same as expecting everyone to listen. With an expected uptake of only a few percent, you can indeed tell everybody what they might need to do to become successful here.

Players profit from other players, which also holds true of betting when there is a tote and even in theory the lottery when payouts are shared amongst all winners from a particular draw.

It's actually good for those profitting that so few people listen to those with snippets of wisdom here and there. Will this post get through to 'anyone'? Hopefully not ;)!
 
It's actually good for those profitting that so few people listen to those with snippets of wisdom here and there

even if everyone would listen to them... then everyone would be losing, that's just how it is. :dunno:
and what do you base your assumption that only a few people are listening? Because people listening and it still not working is not allowed to happen? ideology much....
 
even if everyone would listen to them...
I think this is partly a language thing - the mathematical logic of what words mean when presented in a certain way.
It's like the scene in a famous film: "You are all individuals." Everybody together: "We are all individuals". Lone voice: "I'm not."
The assumption that only a few people are listening is from ongoing behaviour and logic that can be observed. If everyone listened (or heard true stuff and acted on it), there would be far less of an edge for leveraging any advantages some players have over others. In that respect, when some 'secrets' spill out, the advantages may be reduced to almost zero per player. The winners need the losers in situations where you are not going to win against the 'bank', i.e. MA in this situation.

Most people are fine with 'losing' a certain amount of money - it is a fair exchange for entertainment. Some people also have the goal of winning but don't manage this for various reasons. It's not anything to be ashamed about though; I guess you have to be a lot higher than average to do that in this place, through dedication, smarts, some luck in discovering stuff too, I would say. I sort of break even -ish, but grats to the ones who manage to actually pull it off and win :).
 
I sort of break even -ish, but grats to the ones who manage to actually pull it off and win :).

well, for me:
prior to loot 2.0 it was break even, the globals and hof were straight profit.
now with loot 2.0 it's minor losses untill the uber hof covering those losses, but the majority of the hof is gonna go towards actual profit. So yeah, sadly the uber hofs are mandatory now, not going to get one in 2 years, well, that's pretty terrible...

Thx for the grats btw =)

Anyway, still sticking too very big depos can buy too many benefits...
 
Last edited:
well, for me:
prior to loot 2.0 it was break even, the globals and hof were straight profit.
now with loot 2.0 it's minor losses untill the uber hof covering those losses, but the majority of the hof is gonna go towards actual profit. So yeah, sadly the uber hofs are mandatory now, not going to get one in 2 years, well, that's pretty terrible...

Thx for the grats btw =)

Anyway, still sticking too very big depos can buy too many benefits...

I don't know, loot 1.0 was pretty bad... No looters, wild volatility... it wasn't uncommon for mid to low level avatars to go out with 500 peds of ammo and end their run with like 80 peds in loot. Definitely wasn't welcoming to new players as their money was gone far too fast.

With loot 2.0 there seems to be less volatility (IE it's at least predictable losses each run lol). As a result, globals are less about profit rewards and more about a means to balance returns. When you start falling below that certain return threshold you global and it puts you back on track.

I do agree it was nice previously when you knew that if you globalled you were gonna end your run in profit. But you can't have it both ways. The real problem is there is no wealth value generated in the game. It's literally just the same money circulating with MA taking a a little cut at each exchange. There simply isn't enough money so everyone can win and MA can profit. Scratch that - there simply isn't enough money so a significant portion of the in-game population (like mid level players) can win and MA can profit. I mean it's not like a government that can just print money lol And no one is gonna volunteer to be on the losing end of that situation lol

We all want to think that if we're just good little avatars that deposit, skill up and invest in decent gear we should be able to regularly pull in a profit. But that's simply not possible under the current gaming mechanics.
 
I do agree it was nice previously when you knew that if you globalled you were gonna end your run in profit.

yeah, that overall the global is going 100% towards profit... have your 90% tt-return and with MU get up to 99-100% return without globals... once the globals and hofs are coming, the payout for all the time invested is happening...

now you do even need globals to barely break even despite good MU and when the globals aren't happening, you know you may just lose 150-300 PED in a 2k PED run even with good MUs.... overall loot 2.0 is very terrible.
 
Ah. This is another one of those common misconceptions around here. Saying "you can profit if you adapt" is not the same as saying "everyone can profit if all of you adapt"
your argument makes no sense when talking about the masses of EU losing when there will only ever be a certain % of people that can profit regardless if you look at individually as in "you can profit if you adapt."

The op is talking about crap loot - my post are my point of view that it is by design and those that want to perpetuate the misconception that any "person" can profit is not true and they know it but the lie is in their best interest.

Loot 2.0 just pulled more players down into shit loot territory because they need more deposits as there are less people playing and depositing but the Uber class (and others but the big guys i assume make serious $) continue to profit and withdraw - so if the big guys are not paying into they system then that leave most other players to pay.
 
EU is similar to RL
1% are billionaires

"Chosen" = Smart, More IQ, understanding the system
ok i'll assume you profit because you are just smarter than everyone who does not -

So how do you profit if you don't loot MU to sell to other players??
 
...going to have to chip in to this discussion on the basis of: I can't let it be - someone is wrong on the Internet!
Telling everybody something is not the same as expecting everyone to listen. With an expected uptake of only a few percent, you can indeed tell everybody what they might need to do to become successful here.

Players profit from other players, which also holds true of betting when there is a tote and even in theory the lottery when payouts are shared amongst all winners from a particular draw.

It's actually good for those profitting that so few people listen to those with snippets of wisdom here and there. Will this post get through to 'anyone'? Hopefully not ;)!
if you dont know that players profit from players than you are really in trouble. That is basically the way i survived in EU for years. within a few months of starting the game -i started trading - but that was when there were tons more players and not so many resellers with massive ped cards over bidding just to discourage competition- you know what i mean - PRONTO rings a bell? there were also the nice once in a while 20 ped loots on a daki or even a chirpy once!

So ill ask you too - how do you profit if you do not loot MU ? (obviously i mean by hunting. mining crafting not trading or faping etc..)

You are also assuming people don't listen - sure a lot wont, some don't care, but overall any one that enjoys the challenge of self sufficiency or profiting will listen but again if tons more people start to profit from other players then they likely will not need to deposit so less revenue to MA so guess what's gonna happen then - more people will start to lose and leave - its a viscous circle.

and you last sentence is exactly why those people want everyone to believe they can - its in their best interest and will perpetuate it even if it almost impossible now. so you are confirming what i am saying in part.
 
Status
Back
Top