The new Swedish surveillance law

[waperboy]

Now it is done.

Yesterday evening, the Swedish government passed the new law. The law that allows an autonomous military intelligence agency to wiretap all cable-based communication across the Swedish borders.

The public outcry has been huge the last couple of weeks, protesting against the proposal, but it has been ignored.

The moment they start looking for threats, threats will be found - whether they are real or not.

They say that we live in a democracy. But the word is just an illusion, a smoke screen. The government does what it wants, with no regard for the opinion of the people.

The government is controlling and oppressive. It entangles us in rules, regulations and prohibitions, forces its decrees down throats of the people.

Now that France has proposed the model of denying internet access for file-sharers, it will not be long until the same proposal is made in Sweden. And it will be passed, as all oppressive new proposals are.

We're headed for a cold, hard future as a society.

 

[strakkan]

Ouch ! So they did it ??? Thats extremely bad news and calls for changes next election

 

[Count Joe]

yes it was some big protest about the law.. but still the absolut biggest mass aproved it. Im not a superfan of the law but as there is so much crimes happening on internet I can understand how a law like this comes up


democracy can be seen in different ways.. some ppl even call Cuba a democracy


the frence law arent so bad. Downloading music arent a good way. it gets harder and harder for a musician to be able to live on its music.. if they even can live on it. I did download music before but have started to buy CDs now instead. its better sound from a cd, its more fun to have and you help the creation of new music

 

[Dreamdancer]

Outch. So, you are having your own small echelon there too.

I thought I read somewhere yesterday that this would be reconsidered becoz of massive public protest... Can't find it now, might have been wishful thinking...

I was thinking highly of Sweden and thought you were very concerned with privacy and free speech, home of the pirate bay and all...

This is a sad day for the world.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Benjamin Franklin ​

Regards,
DD

 

[Count Joe]

Ouch ! So they did it ??? Thats extremely bad news and calls for changes next election

I doubt that changing partie would have made any differens.. afaik, Boström proposed the same ide

 

[StrongMinded]

The only choice we have now is to vote for the PP (Pirate Party) the next election...

I will also start encrypting everything and join Tor and i will go around in internet cafe´s writing all the things i can come up with that can be traced by this damn law....

Voted to the power by the people and not listening to anything we say.

Threathening the party members that voice their opinions and want to say NO. Is this democracy??

This is what stasi and the nazi parties was doing not long ago.

Pressen är emot det. ( The press is against it )
Advokaterna är emot det. ( Lawyers are against it )
Bloggarna (över 90%) är emot det. ( Bloggers are against it )
Polisen är emot det. ( The police are against it )
Säkerhetspolisen är emot det. ( The security police are against it )
Utländska experter är emot det. ( Foreign experts are against it )
Folket är emot det (enligt de visserligen ganska blygsamma enkäter som gjorts av ett antal tidningar) ( The people are against it )

Kortfattat: ( In short )
Alla de som ska övervakas är emot det. ( The ones that will be monitored are against it )
Alla de som ska övervaka är för det. ( The ones monitoring us wants the law )

 

[StrongMinded]

Outch. So, you are having your own small echelon there too.

I thought I read somewhere yesterday that this would be reconsidered becoz of massive public protest... Can't find it now, might have been wishful thinking...

I was thinking highly of Sweden and thought you were very concerned with privacy and free speech, home of the pirate bay and all...

This is a sad day for the world.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Benjamin Franklin ​

Regards,
DD

They reconsidered a few hours and after scaring the people in the parties saying NO to the law.

 

[Kimmi]

Well, we dont want any big migration to Norway now, you just stay where you are

 

[Dreamdancer]

Downloading music arent a good way. it gets harder and harder for a musician to be able to live on its music.. if they even can live on it. I did download music before but have started to buy CDs now instead. its better sound from a cd, its more fun to have and you help the creation of new music

The problem is, buying a music CD in itself does near to nothing for the artist. If you really want to support your artist, visit their shows, and buy the CDs ON THEIR SHOWS, not at Amazon.

What makes CDs so expensive is the dying distribution juggernaut (the MAFIAA, as most call it), that cannot add value to music any more. These people cling to their antiquated business model, and add nothing of artistic merit to music.

My personal "distribution model" looks like this: I download music. If I like what I downloaded, I will visit the artist's show, and buy the CD there. I admit to those artists that I have the pleasure to meet in person that I downloaded their music, and offer some compensation. Most give me CDs for it.

Regards,
DD

 

[DeeDee]

Sad sad day indeed.

My understanding is that a lot of countries already has such a law, or already practice this anyway (with a specific law).
Which countries are known? USA for sure, right? Others?

 

[Count Joe]

The problem is, buying a music CD in itself does near to nothing for the artist. If you really want to support your artist, visit their shows, and buy the CDs ON THEIR SHOWS, not at Amazon.

What makes CDs so expensive is the dying distribution juggernaut (the MAFIAA, as most call it), that cannot add value to music any more. These people cling to their antiquated business model, and add nothing of artistic merit to music.

My personal "distribution model" looks like this: I download music. If I like what I downloaded, I will visit the artist's show, and buy the CD there. I admit to those artists that I have the pleasure to meet in person that I downloaded their music, and offer some compensation. Most give me CDs for it.

Regards,
DD

sure support the artist you do best if you buy the cd directly from them (if they play near where you live). But its no good recordlabels having such a hard time. whos gonna dare to finance a CD if they cant make money? and for an artist that dont have the money to market him/her self is deeply in need of a label. so for every cd you download and not buying instead, you are destroying, in a small scale, the chance for an artist to make a living out of it

 

[Dreamdancer]

sure support the artist you do best if you buy the cd directly from them (if they play near where you live). But its no good recordlabels having such a hard time. whos gonna dare to finance a CD if they cant make money?

Just WHY would anyone WANT a CD? The silver disc is DEAD. Publishing music is advertsing, it always was, until the RIAA came around and made it a business. This business model is NOT valid anymore.

and for an artist that dont have the money to market him/her self is deeply in need of a label.

Wrong. Labels are part of the invalid business model. These are the days of garageband.com and the like, wake up.

so for every cd you download and not buying instead, you are destroying, in a small scale, the chance for an artist to make a living out of it

Please take the time to read my post. I download music I hear about on the Nets. This is like going to the "record store" (no such thing anymore), and listening into a CD. Just as if I was in the store, I WILL NOT buy crap, CDs with one good song and 8 fillers and the like.
Please get this right: NOT every CD that is downloaded is a lost sale. The way people are using recorded music is changing. The maths of the content mafia are completely wrong, I can point you to studies and rulings that support what I say.

The music that I like, I buy. And I go to great lengths to circumvent the distribution mafia in doing so. If you are owner of a record label (your reasoning looks like you were), well, move FAST and see to it that you do NOT depend on physical music sales for your business. Mind, sandbagging your customers into buying something they do not want is also not a valid business model.

Regards,
DD

P.S.: If we're not careful this will become a completely offtopic flamewar. I do not want this, just for the record.

 

[-Ra]

The problem is, buying a music CD in itself does near to nothing for the artist. If you really want to support your artist, visit their shows, and buy the CDs ON THEIR SHOWS, not at Amazon.

What makes CDs so expensive is the dying distribution juggernaut (the MAFIAA, as most call it), that cannot add value to music any more. These people cling to their antiquated business model, and add nothing of artistic merit to music.

My personal "distribution model" looks like this: I download music. If I like what I downloaded, I will visit the artist's show, and buy the CD there. I admit to those artists that I have the pleasure to meet in person that I downloaded their music, and offer some compensation. Most give me CDs for it.

Regards,
DD

actually that is wrong.. I have spent a majority of the past 17 years in the music industry, and the lack of album sales can and will destroy a band. When a band gets signed toa label the label does more then enjoy the money from the album sales. it has to get a production crew, booking agents, merch designers, tour support as well as spend a few hundred thousand dollars or more on recording the album and who knows on how much any videos might cost.

If music is pirated insted of purchased, it hurts the band, the record label will cut funding if they are not making any money. and then the band is screwed having not recieved the money they where needing to finish the tour or albums. I have seen many bands hurt just this way.
Oh! and if the record sales of one of the lables biggest signed acts does not get the cd sales expected, wether it be because people pirate instead of purchase or the album sucked, it hurts all the other bands on the label. the record label will not take the hit to help the bands, the let the bands starve themselves and pack into a smaller bus or sometimes their own cars to do the rest of a tour.

And anyone who might be ok with pirating music, should not complain if the ever get scammed in EU, it is no different.. you steal music, scammers should be able to scam your gear

Now back on topic..

Sorry to Here Sweden has now opressed it's people more.. I tihnk this is something that is happening everywhere more and more.. Here in the US it is no different, and growing up the government always boasted about how we are supposed to be the most free land in the world. but I think we are trapped like everyone else.

 

[Dreamdancer]

actually that is wrong.. I have spent a majority of the past 17 years in the music industry,

Ah, thats where the problem starts... you need to look at what your customers are doing, and act accordingly. The business is changing, and as you are playing EU, you should know how important it is to adapt...

and the lack of album sales can and will destroy a band. When a band gets signed toa label the label does more then enjoy the money from the album sales. it has to get a production crew, booking agents, merch designers, tour support as well as spend a few hundred thousand dollars or more on recording the album and who knows on how much any videos might cost.

WHY does there have to be an album?!? ALL my albums (and I have A LOT) collect dust on the shelf or in the cellar. My preferred medium to store music on is as big as a paperback book and speaks USB2.0, and holds ALL the music I have. As for production costs, all you need is a MacBook Pro and Logic, lets say 3.5K US$, as spending any more on gear will not make up for lack of talent. Tour support? Hey, there's companies that do this without your having to sell your soul to them. Videos? Heard of that british band that played in front of CCTV and then got the footage via freedom of information act? THAT was a cool idea for a video and cost... oh, a few hours time and a few stamps.

I hope you understand why I believe the classic "record label" concept is vain.

If music is pirated insted of purchased,

Please take a minute and think about whether all music that is "pirated" (what a silly word, I cant recall the moment I sailed into Time Warner on my battleship, guns blazing, and robbed them of their music, arrrr matey!) would have resulted in an additional sale if downloading would not have been an option.

the record label will cut funding if they are not making any money. and then the band is screwed having not recieved the money they where needing to finish the tour or albums. I have seen many bands hurt just this way. Oh! and if the record sales of one of the lables biggest signed acts does not get the cd sales expected, wether it be because people pirate instead of purchase or the album sucked, it hurts all the other bands on the label. the record label will not take the hit to help the bands, the let the bands starve themselves and pack into a smaller bus or sometimes their own cars to do the rest of a tour.

The record label is out of the game already. What you just told me was that a lot of artists got hardcore buttsecks from their label and would have been better off without one in the first place. Because the label will bill the artists if their (the label's) marketing did not work out. How is that fair?

And anyone who might be ok with pirating music, should not complain if the ever get scammed in EU, it is no different.. you steal music, scammers should be able to scam your gear

Oh. Do the scammers come back to you and give you money OUT OF THEIR FREE WILL after they found out they liked your gear, just as I do? Great scammers you have there, I would like to be one of them cool d00dz.

Regards,
DD

 

[Dreamdancer]

Which countries are known? USA for sure, right? Others?

Here in Germany, we are currently trying to get our supreme court to outlaw data retention and online searches. The outlook is not too good.

Regards,
DD

 

[Skam]

On the suject on "BUY CDS" "CD's ARE OUTDATED" discussion.


I download full CDs and sometimes just songs from iTunes Store if I really like it, via my ipod. That way I get the mp3s and I pay the bands for their work (imo its a small price for hours of entertainment)
If I want the music on a CD i can always just burn it..
And if I want to listen first, the itunes store gives a 'pre-listen' oppertunity before you decide to buy the track/cd.

I do download some music though. But more rarely lately.

 

[gwit]

The police surveilance powers and powers or detention without arrest are probably the worst in the world, here in the UK, that once great bastion of freedom of speech and worldwide protector of oil (sorry meant to say Liberty).

We will now permit detention without arrest for up to 42 days - so any of you with anti government thoughts or dark poetry best keep it to yourselves !!

 

[Dreamdancer]

I download full CDs and sometimes just songs from iTunes Store

Here, we encounter another problem.

I believe we are clear about that we want the ARTIST to receive a majority of the funds we spend on an album. Now the problem is that the labels go out of their way to scam artists out of their percentage of electronic sales, via convoluted contracts and well-paid lawyers. So, the iTunes store (or anything like it, legal downloads) is actually a very problematic way of supporting your artist.

Regards,
DD

 

[Skam]

Here, we encounter another problem.

I believe we are clear about that we want the ARTIST to receive a majority of the funds we spend on an album. Now the problem is that the labels go out of their way to scam artists out of their percentage of electronic sales, via convoluted contracts and well-paid lawyers. So, the iTunes store (or anything like it, legal downloads) is actually a very problematic way of supporting your artist.

Regards,
DD

To be honest thats a issue that the artists should work out with their manager, not something that me, the consumer, should have to worry about.


Imo.

 

[Robotek]

Nice, now MA will start charging this swedish CiA 2pecs for every wiretap they make. Coz they r makin this terrible terrible lag all over eu`s poor lil servers...lol

Cheers!
Robo

 

[Sionkiewicz]

Posted about this back on 9 March 07. Would have been great to have this kind of discussion but it was closed as a Rule #16 violation.

Has this rule now changed?

 

[Shadowsong]

Posted about this back on 9 March 07. Would have been great to have this kind of discussion but it was closed as a Rule #16 violation.

Has this rule now changed?

I'm guessing it was the poke at MA that caused the lock, rather than the subject of government monitoring.

 

[omebius]

sure support the artist you do best if you buy the cd directly from them (if they play near where you live). But its no good recordlabels having such a hard time. whos gonna dare to finance a CD if they cant make money? and for an artist that dont have the money to market him/her self is deeply in need of a label. so for every cd you download and not buying instead, you are destroying, in a small scale, the chance for an artist to make a living out of it

It is not the music industry or the artist, it is the insane copyright laws that are the problem!!!!! it needs to be entirely overhauled. it is archaic!

 

[waperboy]

Posted about this back on 9 March 07. Would have been great to have this kind of discussion but it was closed as a Rule #16 violation.

Has this rule now changed?

Aye, my bad for not reading the rules properly. I guess this thread will get

 

[Level]

Well, we dont want any big migration to Norway now, you just stay where you are

I must make you sad, tons of ppl from Poland were working in GB etc...now because they get less money in GB (Pound is worth almost 1/3 less than it was 3 years ago)...they are going to Norway Its sad and in spite of I am Pole, I would love to stop them, they will destroy your peace and heaven there

 

[Sionkiewicz]

I'm guessing it was the poke at MA that caused the lock, rather than the subject of government monitoring.

Nope, not the way it was explained to me.

It was explained to me (in PM) that it was closed due to it being a political discussion with nothing to do with Entropia Universe.

 

[Shadowsong]

Nope, not the way it was explained to me.

It was explained to me (in PM) that it was closed due to it being a political discussion with nothing to do with Entropia Universe.

Aah, okay, that does put a different slant on things. It was in "Off Topic" after all. I believe this situation is covered by the word "ineffable".

 

[predden]

Now it is done.
We're headed for a cold, hard future as a society.

More like
We're headed for a cold, hard future as a fascist regime

 

[Jacxz]

Well, we dont want any big migration to Norway now, you just stay where you are

I was thinking of Dubai maybe, but its to warm, Norway is a great idea cya soon Kimmi

naah, well I'm definitely leaving Sweden ASAP

 

[AncientAutumn]

Pure fascism, next step total totalitarian state, and its seems its even a extreme left winged thing, you can't trust any political movement.