Should there be compensation?

Few Scars

Marauder
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Posts
7,329
Location
Arkadia
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Bjorn Bjorn Longstaff
For those players who own expensive tiered UL items you will be in a state of disbelief at the moment! Yes, the space of seconds all the peds you put into tiering your expensive items, those expensive items lost on failed attempts, all which contributed to the value of your unique tiered item!....lost!
Now every player can over time tier up their items. The only value in tiered items now will be the costs of ingredients.
So we lost money today, that's alot of unhappy clients!
Compensation, well I doubt MA will give us the MU on our items, but at least they could return the items lost to tiering!

What do you think?
 
Yes, there should be compensation. Will there be though - not sure... after all the universe is dynamic... It is a shame that so many items were trashed in the process of tiering... I guess one of the many issues here is did they recycle the UL items that were lost by giving them to other participants? Since they can't tell us yes or no since it's all a part of how the loot cycle works, the ball is entirely in their court now...
 
I don't think compensations should be handed out.

As far is I understand the system now, it cost more to TIER than before.
So in that case they already had a financial advantage over the ones TIERing now.

If this is not the case, than still no handing out compensations.
Back than Marco already stated that there will be probably be replacements for the item needed.
If people can't wait to TIER up and want to take the risk, than thats there choice and they have to accept the consequences.

I deliberately waited with TIERing anything until something better is in place, like there is now.

If someone wants to jump the bandwagon and want to be the first one, than they have to accept the price it costs.

Besides, if you want to compensate that, than also compensate the first ones who bought a vehicle for a insane amount of money since the prices dropped drastically.

Anyway, thats just my opinion.

Kind regards,
Ion
 
Although this is the first thing that came to my mind, the compensation...

I really must say NO, it was your choice to RISK the items and KNOWING beforehand (I remember it has been mentioned by MA/FPC somewhere in advance) that there would be certain items that could REPLACE the second item so you wouldn't risk losing the item.

I never took the risk (even the 1/2% chance of failing) on items that were worth way too much, because it's too much of a gamble and not worth it.
Hence why a lot of people told the others that were tiering like crazy: "You are stupid to take that risk with so much money"
Since it was a deliberate choice and nobody forced you into anything, you chose to "invest and take the risk" for some it failed some it succeeded.

Compensation would not be in place for such things as this, as hard as it may sound.
 
I don't think compensations should be handed out.

As far is I understand the system now, it cost more to TIER than before.
So in that case they already had a financial advantage over the ones TIERing now.

If this is not the case, than still no handing out compensations.
Back than Marco already stated that there will be probably be replacements for the item needed.
If people can't wait to TIER up and want to take the risk, than thats there choice and they have to accept the consequences.

I deliberately waited with TIERing anything until something better is in place, like there is now.

If someone wants to jump the bandwagon and want to be the first one, than they have to accept the price it costs.

Besides, if you want to compensate that, than also compensate the first ones who bought a vehicle for a insane amount of money since the prices dropped drastically.

Anyway, thats just my opinion.

Kind regards,
Ion

You don't really understand the system now.

The vehicle system was not nerfed.

MA now makes changes to systems on a whim.
 
I must have missed something since im not that active atm ingame. Have something been changed with the teiring process??
 
No, they should not.

They knew the risks and yet they did it.

You could ask, should there be compensate for every run I have had loss in.
 
No, they should not.

They knew the risks and yet they did it.

You could ask, should there be compensate for every run I have had loss in.


Have to agreee, no compensation needed. We all knew there would be away to tier without a second item, Marco hinted this much. So imo the ppl who took the risk new that if they waited they might not need a second item.
 
No, they should not.

They knew the risks and yet they did it.

You could ask, should there be compensate for every run I have had loss in.

They knew the risk, ofc they knew the risk but did it in an apparently stable business environment(or at least this is what MA wants us to think). You don`t just change rules like this on the fly hurting the people who invested hoping system is solid and here to stay. Ofc anyone expects tweaks and little changes to improve the system but not total fundamental changes like this that could wipe out big money spent. It really damages the trust in the platform and the company itself. Where`s that article where MA tried to persuade the players why an item drain system was soooo needed?
 
You don't really understand the system now.

The vehicle system was not nerfed.

MA now makes changes to systems on a whim.

Ok, that was maybe not the best example, so scratch that :)

However it was not totally on a whim, Marco already mentioned replacement items back that.
So the rest of the post still apply.

Regards,
Ion
 
ofc not, they chose themselves to do it, they weren't forced by anyone
 
No.
Too Short
 
Nope there should not be.

They knew the risks when they were doing it.
Hopefully the items lost will come back into the loot pool.
yes its is sucky that people have lost high end items to it, but they knew the risks and were willing to take them.
 
Nah.. can not see why? no one has forced anyone to tier up an item and besides that.. its a "gamble" with high input, someone loses and someone wins... if you succeed, you have an item that is better than before with a higher value.
 
Ok, that was maybe not the best example, so scratch that :)

However it was not totally on a whim, Marco already mentioned replacement items back that.
So the rest of the post still apply.

Regards,
Ion

Marco mentioned item replicators or something like that to act similarly to a joker card in card games.
He didn`t mention a drastic total redo of the system. Far from it.
 
Nope there should not be.

They knew the risks when they were doing it.
Hopefully the items lost will come back into the loot pool.
yes its is sucky that people have lost high end items to it, but they knew the risks and were willing to take them.

Well, the EULA states MA can change anything at any moment, and without compensation. But, I do not think the upgraders knew the risk of the current VU. MindArk clearly explained the reasoning behind needing a second item in the recipe. In fact they made a thread to argue over it's merit. Marco, likewise, with his replicator proposal, also indicated the second item would always be needed. The risk of this change to needing no secondary item looked very very low. Making such a fundamental change to an ingame system destroys confidence in the overall system.
 
Absolutely not! Marco said that you might not need a 2nd item & people did not have the patience to wait for such a time as now. Which wasnt really that long... being patient is a real virtue something I'm proud to have & waited for. I now look forward to tiering my own items :)
 
Most people will say no because they are jealous of the people with the items and money and actually like that they lost.

Fact.
 
A nerf by any other name is still a nerf.

No compensation.
 
Absolutely not! Marco said that you might not need a 2nd item & people did not have the patience to wait for such a time as now :)

I dont think Marco's comments (below) really indicated what occurred today.

Marco|FPC said:
MA says they have some other things in the system that hasn't been found yet. Even unique items will be upgradable.

Marco|FPC said:
Well, if you happen to stumble upon an Upgrade Replicator, I'd suggest you don't TT it. ,-)
 
This is easy

NO

:beerchug:

Miles
 
Boiled down, let's REALLY look at this situation here.

MA announces a tiering system.
Marco starts bragging about t10 mod mercs and t10 mod faps ("I've played with them, and boy are they impressive!" {someone find this quote please, search is failing horribly}).
Tiering comes about. People find out it's EXTREMELY expensive, oh ya - and you have a decent chance of losing the second item (at tier one, approximately ~3% loss chance {counting in 50% success rate!}).
Tierer profession begins, with ubers who either have, or know other ubers, who have multiples of uber items (or hell, 2-3 of every armor/weapon in the game) and begin a tiering service with insurance (the 30k insurance paid wasn't an exaggeration, that was for ONE click!).
Again, a new system ended up being for the rich and bold only, cutting out 95% of the playerbase from participating without cache-dumping their inventory for the ability to tier up their equipment (or depositing more money).
Also increased prices for various mid-level items, as tierers (or those who wanted their items tiered) begin to buy & hold onto 2, 3 or more of the same item (hoarding = reduced supply = higher demand = higher prices, artificially inflated not through use, but despair).
The community, about as near a whole as it's ever been, states vocally (ingame, forum, radio, etc) how this is WAY TO EXPENSIVE and how 'they' won't ever tier their UL gear because of the chance of item loss, which limits the market of enhancers to being used on either very low end (rarely some mid-level) UL gear that didn't cost much to tier, or on L weaponry/gear.

(bypass the drama in the middle of idiots tiering items worth $25k+ USD, few failing, some succeeding, flaming posts/threads, blah blah)

Now, with the new tiering system, the 95% of the players who WOULDN'T tier their gear, are going to be able to with zero chance of loss. The increased revenue on decay alone for the rest of the year is going to probably TRIPLE, if not increase above that (think how many will begin using dmg enhancers t1-t3 on their UL weapons now!). You will see people using enhancers on a much larger scale, which will increase the enhancer market... which will, in turn, increase both the hunting and mining profession on MU of looted items (maybe not much, but every % counts nowadays).

Effectively, what you have just seen, is an economic stimulus kick in the pants, which WILL bring in not only more peds, but more activity from players who are capable of handling this new system, without having to stress over spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to 'tier up' their favorite toy, so they can stay running 'with the pack'.

Does this seem fair to whomever it was that had their MM tiered to T4 recently? No, but it does certainly provide a nice laugh at someone who was willing to spend (over the course of 4 tierings) at least what the MM was worth in insurance/ingredients just to do it, because they were impatient and/or had the money to spend (wonder how many, if any, MM's bit the dust on those attempts? Curious to know!). I stated, again and again, everyone who tiered something that high on the current system, was a dumbass. Some of you who have done it, I like you guys & bs with you back and forth... but seriously, dumbass move. HUNDREDS of us kept saying "Wait, don't tier it yet, if you fail and lose that item, it's one less on the market for us to potentially buy!" (paraphrased response for minor humor), "FU n00b, it's my item, my money, I do WTF I want with it, and if it increases the MU on MY item by succeeding or even failing, then so much the better! Stay down in that ditch where you belong, before I kick you back down!"


Now... ok. I haven't seen the 'new' costs to tier my delta SGA. But I can say that as long as I either have the components, or can stockpile them, I will finally be able to tier it up (which, btw, was a pain in the ass to do! Not many delta SGA's!). I'll also be able to look at tiering my faps, my armor (including my SGA martial pieces!), the rest of my weapons... etc etc. I hope to NOW see, more so than before, more tiering successes in the HoF window, and a VERY widespread use of enhancers!

THIS is what I hoped for when enhancers were announced originally, access by virtually ALL, regardless of ped card, and not reliant upon the elite few in the game to provide the service/items in order to do it.

Alright, getting back to work now :silly2:. Hope you enjoyed my Wall o' Text!
 
Most people will say no because they are jealous of the people with the items and money and actually like that they lost.

Fact.

Boiled down, let's REALLY look at this situation here.

MA announces a tiering system.
Marco starts bragging about t10 mod mercs and t10 mod faps ("I've played with them, and boy are they impressive!" {someone find this quote please, search is failing horribly}).
Tiering comes about. People find out it's EXTREMELY expensive, oh ya - and you have a decent chance of losing the second item (at tier one, approximately ~3% loss chance {counting in 50% success rate!}).
Tierer profession begins, with ubers who either have, or know other ubers, who have multiples of uber items (or hell, 2-3 of every armor/weapon in the game) and begin a tiering service with insurance (the 30k insurance paid wasn't an exaggeration, that was for ONE click!).
Again, a new system ended up being for the rich and bold only, cutting out 95% of the playerbase from participating without cache-dumping their inventory for the ability to tier up their equipment (or depositing more money).
Also increased prices for various mid-level items, as tierers (or those who wanted their items tiered) begin to buy & hold onto 2, 3 or more of the same item (hoarding = reduced supply = higher demand = higher prices, artificially inflated not through use, but despair).
The community, about as near a whole as it's ever been, states vocally (ingame, forum, radio, etc) how this is WAY TO EXPENSIVE and how 'they' won't ever tier their UL gear because of the chance of item loss, which limits the market of enhancers to being used on either very low end (rarely some mid-level) UL gear that didn't cost much to tier, or on L weaponry/gear.

(bypass the drama in the middle of idiots tiering items worth $25k+ USD, few failing, some succeeding, flaming posts/threads, blah blah)

Now, with the new tiering system, the 95% of the players who WOULDN'T tier their gear, are going to be able to with zero chance of loss. The increased revenue on decay alone for the rest of the year is going to probably TRIPLE, if not increase above that (think how many will begin using dmg enhancers t1-t3 on their UL weapons now!). You will see people using enhancers on a much larger scale, which will increase the enhancer market... which will, in turn, increase both the hunting and mining profession on MU of looted items (maybe not much, but every % counts nowadays).

Effectively, what you have just seen, is an economic stimulus kick in the pants, which WILL bring in not only more peds, but more activity from players who are capable of handling this new system, without having to stress over spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to 'tier up' their favorite toy, so they can stay running 'with the pack'.

Does this seem fair to whomever it was that had their MM tiered to T4 recently? No, but it does certainly provide a nice laugh at someone who was willing to spend (over the course of 4 tierings) at least what the MM was worth in insurance/ingredients just to do it, because they were impatient and/or had the money to spend (wonder how many, if any, MM's bit the dust on those attempts? Curious to know!). I stated, again and again, everyone who tiered something that high on the current system, was a dumbass. Some of you who have done it, I like you guys & bs with you back and forth... but seriously, dumbass move. HUNDREDS of us kept saying "Wait, don't tier it yet, if you fail and lose that item, it's one less on the market for us to potentially buy!" (paraphrased response for minor humor), "FU n00b, it's my item, my money, I do WTF I want with it, and if it increases the MU on MY item by succeeding or even failing, then so much the better! Stay down in that ditch where you belong, before I kick you back down!"


Now... ok. I haven't seen the 'new' costs to tier my delta SGA. But I can say that as long as I either have the components, or can stockpile them, I will finally be able to tier it up (which, btw, was a pain in the ass to do! Not many delta SGA's!). I'll also be able to look at tiering my faps, my armor (including my SGA martial pieces!), the rest of my weapons... etc etc. I hope to NOW see, more so than before, more tiering successes in the HoF window, and a VERY widespread use of enhancers!

THIS is what I hoped for when enhancers were announced originally, access by virtually ALL, regardless of ped card, and not reliant upon the elite few in the game to provide the service/items in order to do it.

Alright, getting back to work now :silly2:. Hope you enjoyed my Wall o' Text!

Exhibit A.

I agree that the new system is better, but the rest...

People used the system as it was designed by MA. If you had a problem with it, blame MA, not those who chose to use it.
 
Exhibit A.

I agree that the new system is better, but the rest...

People used the system as it was designed by MA. If you had a problem with it, blame MA, not those who chose to use it.

Ouch :(. I'm not jealous of the uber players. They either got in when shit was insanely cheap (compared to now) or played a hell of a lot smarter than I learned how to play... I have respect for all ubers who got where they are (except for those with really large CC's and no brains, thankfully only a very few here :silly2:)

And people used the system as they were able to AFFORD to use it, without expressing distress over the fact that so few others could use it to the same extent (how many ubers did you see making threads saying "ooohhh myyy gawwwd, it's gonna cost me 30k ped to tier MY MM?! Whhhaat?? 50k for modfap!?" No, instead you see "Lookie, I got t1 on my MM!", followed by "Hehe, t2!" then "Hur hur, T3!"...). That's like saying those who lost money investing in a company that went broke on a failed investment plan are at fault, when it was CLEAR it was a broke system, and all the major investors had to do was sit up, stand back and say "Fix it, or we pull out".
 
Anyone that has been in EU for very long knows how MA likes to mess with things. If MA had to compensate the playerbase every time they made a big change to the game, they would have gone broke long ago.

I can't imagine how pissed someone that lost a MM to a tiering attempt would be right now. But then, I would never put down that much $$$ on the roulette wheel in the first place.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.
 

Tyvm, that was the post I was looking for. Although I swear he also made a post where he 'got to play around with the items in the test server'. But that one will do. Quoted below for reference!

All items have the same stats when this system is launched that they have today, but most of them can be upgraded as well.

A Tier 10 Opalo with 10x Damage Enhancers is quite the sight. Or the Tier 10 Imp. Mk 2. Or the Tier 10 Mod Fap with 10x Heal Enhancers or...

Yeah, I think it will be quite cool. Especially that each and every player gets to customize their favorite items with the set of enhancers they like "right now".

And seriously... I'm guessing either MA glossed over the COST and ingredients when they showed Marco the Imk2, modfap or hell... even the opalo t10 (seriously, what's the highest anyones got on opalo so far? 4? And that cost like 600+ ped in ingredients, right?)
 
What do you think?

Similar things have occured in the past, when the colouring system was altered, those who had stockpiled large amounts of the rarer paints (such as red black and white) found their worth drastically reduced.

I also suspect similar threads will arise in the future when hangars and make up are brought back.

For those who have spent a large amount of money on tiering, I understand their anger and frustration. :(
 
For a change I would say no, I tiered up stuff myself lost peds compared to this vu tier. But, I tiered my items when i did knowing i was willing to pay that to tier them. Plus I saved 300 peds on one tier today so far. See no reason for compensations here.

There was no bug or fault here, just there way of trying to balance tiers out i think. People stopped tiering at certain point due to huge risk and cost. game makes money from decay, bigger tier items decay more. So of course they want us to tier our items.
 
For a change I would say no, I tiered up stuff myself lost peds compared to this vu tier. But, I tiered my items when i did knowing i was willing to pay that to tier them. Plus I saved 300 peds on one tier today so far. See no reason for compensations here.

There was no bug or fault here, just there way of trying to balance tiers out i think. People stopped tiering at certain point due to huge risk and cost. game makes money from decay, bigger tier items decay more. So of course they want us to tier our items.

This EXACT point, right there, is the reason why tiering should have been like this from the beginning. And also why I KEEP saying, to this day, that UL weapons and gear of near-uber status should keep dropping. I'd prefer to see a mid level player w/lvl 25 evader in a set of supremacy than a lvl 80 evader player. Why? Simple = more decay. More decay means more profit for MA, which keeps the wheels greased and keeps things moving. Keeping the lower eco (L) and UL weapons available almost exclusively to low to mid-level players will force us to moderate ourselves that much more.
Be honest on this part. If, IF mind you, you could buy a set of supremacy for 10k ped, and a DOA foeripper w/evil amp for 5k ped, wouldn't you go out and play with it that much more on hogglos/daspletors/aurlis? I know I would! Keep the ultra-eco weapons rare (but in all seriousness, increase their drop rates a % or two! plz!), and increase drop rates of everything else... and whaddya know. More people using stuff that has a higher decay for their level (read: not ultra-eco), and you might see a few good changes in not only loot, but more of a stronger quarterly statement for MA/FPC and folks.
 
Back
Top