AUD's First Case of Zero Payout

sawachika

Old Alpha
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Posts
975
AUD's first case of zero payout is confirmed on the 7th May 2014. Just in case anyone's interested, that is...

Well...personally, its of course something that's already expected I guess. I mean...its an "LA", so naturally if too few people spend peds there, there's bound to be cases of no payouts right?

Nonetheless, my stance on this issue is still neutral. I know fully well what to expect when I chose to buy them, so don't question my "motive" on creating this thread. Its not meant to create any sort of panic.

Just that I'm interested in people's opinion on AUDs that's all. :cool:

People on both sides? Care for a friendly discussion?

Please play nice. Oh and do leave the flamethrowers outside. :laugh:

Examples:
- How do you feel about AUDs?
- Do you think there's a future for them?
- Is it a wise thing to buy them or would you rather choose CLDs instead?
- Do you think AUD's MU would drop even further?

(PS: Anyone having an account on Ark forums, kindly notify RAZER that the AUD tracker doesn't seem to allow entering of 0 payouts into the chart records.)
 
Examples:
- How do you feel about AUDs?
- Do you think there's a future for them?
- Is it a wise thing to buy them or would you rather choose CLDs instead?
- Do you think AUD's MU would drop even further?

(PS: Anyone having an account on Ark forums, kindly notify RAZER that the AUD tracker doesn't seem to allow entering of 0 payouts into the chart records.)


1.Nice way to own part of place similar to FOMA fortuna.
2.As Arkadia is only planet growing atm, i think yeah there is future for them.
3.Both are equally nice, both have chance of growing in price (if MA does great advertising campaing (and not those google ads) entropia could head into new golden era)
4. No
 
Just remember that for the payout to occur every AUD must receive at least 1 pec. If there isn't enough pec generated from taxes in 24h the amount rolls over to the next 24h. As there are multiple owners, each AUD must be 1 pec or greater. This is explained on the Ark forum website.
 
Examples:
- Do you think there's a future for them?
- Is it a wise thing to buy them or would you rather choose CLDs instead?
- Do you think AUD's MU would drop even further?

There is a future, for investing CLD are way better at the moment, markup will drop more (guessing to 40, unless they are close to having them all sold).

Still buying more since i prefer a daily (well almost daily anyway) payout, over a weekly payout. I find myself too often with no peds on the card, and the daily payout ensures me of a small puny hunt each day :)
 
First 2-3 weeks payout was decent cause it was a new land area so there is lot of activity.

Now the payout is low compared to others investments, for what I see it's just as it was planned to be considered the price Arkadia team is selling AU for (10.000.000,00 PED), that is way too high imho.

There should have been half of the number of deeds at that price to be an attractive investment, and now that many deeds sold and that price can't be changed it's clear to everyone the Ark team overvalued their own product.

In EU from years time to time there are investment opportunity offered by developers, some worth to buy (FOMA, CLD, LAs), some not (Banks, AUD...)
 
David Dobson said in the latest interview that there will be events and more missions in the UG in the near future. There are already IFN challenge missions for UG mobs so when those events get going, it should certainly improve the AUD payouts.
 
In the recent interview it was explained that the Underground is basically a land area, like many others. It was said that we should not expect too much in terms of 'development', i.e. new mobs or whatever.

However, the good active running of LAs does now seem to involve the running of events at various scales and of different types, as permitted either directly with ingame event mechanics or via tracker, possibly screenies etc.

I did not listen to every word of the interview as I found I could often skip 30s and still seem to be in the same sentence (sorry for the ironic style of writing - it just seemed that way to me). I did not hear anything mentioned about such events being run, however. This is obviously a bit different from an LA owner doing the work to get events going to boost his/her own payouts, but I would still like to know more here.

It was mentioned that the instances will draw people to the Underground area, but that they do not themselves count as revenue for the LA. I am not yet convinced of the attraction of these instances, but ok.

The main growth in payouts is expected to come from a general growth in the number and skills of Ark avatars over the next 18 months or so.

Personally, I think the availability of skilling bps which use treasure would make a big difference to low mu treasure turnover. This is something at a pp level of decision-making, together with MA.

I do expect street trading prices to drop below 50 peds for a while actually, as some people give up on the idea of having AUDs - and have also been waiting for the first day of a zero payout as a sort of milestone too, yes.
 
very normal market cycle for any "IPO" :) catch the wave :) Believe in growth? Pick a price and buy. Don't believe in growth? Do something else with your ped.
 
2.As Arkadia is only planet growing atm, i think yeah there is future for them.
3.Both are equally nice, both have chance of growing in price (if MA does great advertising campaing (and not those google ads) entropia could head into new golden era)

Rubbish!

Arkadia CEO, David 'Ozi' Dobson recently explicitly stated that:
"Calypso in pure numbers, is growing more than Arkadia, bigger budget. In terms of percentages Arkadia is growing faster. With both Planets marketing Entropia is growing."
 
Rubbish!

Arkadia CEO, David 'Ozi' Dobson recently explicitly stated that:
"Calypso in pure numbers, is growing more than Arkadia, bigger budget. In terms of percentages Arkadia is growing faster. With both Planets marketing Entropia is growing."

well yes that is obvious, but unless actual numbers are given dave could be claiming 1000% year on year growth or more, and it could be true, but he could still only have a few 100 accounts.
 
First 2-3 weeks payout was decent cause it was a new land area so there is lot of activity.

Now the payout is low compared to others investments, for what I see it's just as it was planned to be considered the price Arkadia team is selling AU for (10.000.000,00 PED), that is way too high imho.*

There should have been half of the number of deeds at that price to be an attractive investment, and now that many deeds sold and that price can't be changed it's clear to everyone the Ark team overvalued their own product.*

In EU from years time to time there are investment opportunity offered by developers, some worth to buy (FOMA, CLD, LAs), some not (Banks, AUD...)

what i dont understand is why MA allows this PP to act in this way, i think it is becoming clearer each day that this PP is choosing to price in MU to its offerings, MU that traditionally would of gone to the players, not only this, but the PP appears to be severely overpricing these offerings to such a extent that they lose attractiveness to investors and anyone not blinded by a fan type worshipping of this PP.*
there was the bound armour sold at a serious premium, the LA's that were so overpriced that none of the more traditional calypso investors bought into it, and now the AU.*
i can understand why a PP would chose to act in this way, even if it is counter productive in the long term, i just do not understand why MA allows it, considering the fact that they have many years of experience pricing these big ticket items, and understood up until it allowed this that there had to be room for the players to create their own market, after all this was what made them unique and was a major selling point of the game.*

from what i see people that buy AU are setting their hopes on not only the growth of arkadia, but also the potential popularity of a large but fairly unremarkable taxed LA with these new players, i can see the case for the growth of arkadia, i do not see the case being made that the underground has anything unique or interesting that differentiates it from FOMA or HELL, or the untaxed Monria for that matter.

*expressing opinions such as these might get one labelled as a ark-hater in some quarters.
 
AxeMurderer 's blog summarize very nicely my thoughts about AUD's, especially the part of this LA being overpriced.

My expectations for AUD's in the first year are around 7% ROI and due the large supply im almost certain the price for AUD's will drop, unless some investor pick up all remaining AUDs from the broker. But for that current ROI no serious investor will stand up. I do however expect this will the only place using indoor mining logic where you can find treasures and if Ark grow that will become somewhat important.

I do also believe Ark Studios will enhance the underground even more as soon they realize their remaining AUD's arn't selling. Or lets make a conspiracy theory where ark studios fully expectd that a large ammount of Aud's dosnt sell, so they can pocket the tax monney and use it on promotions instead of spending their own revenue, saving some serious pennys on their side :smoke:

It will be interesting to see how Ark develop, i will hold my aud's no matter what happen and i expect with ark growing that i have my monney back within 7 years. Thats a long time but since i consider every penny put into EU as "gone" i dont mind.
 
If a person thinks the AUD (and by implication the LA) is overpriced, then the obviously sensible decision is not to spend your peds that way and I would encourage people to make an objective evaluation and act accordingly.

I've bought a number of AUD and I may buy more depending on their performance but I am not treating AUD as a growth investment except potentially in the very long term. For me it's about revenue. My own view is that the revenue per deed will increase over time. And that makes them quite attractive. So if I have spare peds than its a convenient place to park those peds and get some interest (compared to 0 when sitting on my ped card). Of course the risk I take is that may not be able to liquidate them for the price I paid when I have that need. So I limit my exposure for now.
 
Thanks for the posts. Keep 'em coming. And don't worry, I'm asking for a fair, enlightening discussion. As long as its kept within reason...it should be okay I guess, to speak your mind.

------

Anyway, in a sense, it was already as what some of the forum peeps predicted, back when AUDs were first mentioned but yet to be released.

- The initial hype...
- The gradual loss of interests...
- The inevitable drop in payouts...
- The bet on the future...
- The overpriced "LA" opinion...

Everything's within expectations so far huh?

------

And just to add a touch of my own personal opinion...

- PED for PED, if time is what I have, using the capital in trading would net better returns than compared to CLDs and AUDs imo.

If time is something I don't have, putting it into CLDs might be a "safer" bet than compared to AUDs. Since fundamentally, CLDs obtain their payouts from all calypsian natives + anyone who visits the planet and spends peds there, while AUDs obtain theirs from visitors to the Land Area, if any. (We're talking about a bigger playground, higher consumer base and economy here, I believe.)

- Although there might be the possibility that AUDs could outperform CLDs (a mere 0.03 ped per day should logically not be impossible right?), however, I feel that certain inherent risks must be understood and accepted before plunging in.

  • Will the population on Ark ever increase to the point where it becomes higher than Calypso?
  • Will things really improve for Ark Underground once the treasure map instances become implemented in there? If so, how long might that last? Or perhaps it will just be another hype and die down eventually?

    (*Note: I do know that the instances down there do not contribute to the payout, but would somewhat indirectly affect it via some other means...pending on how the "treasure maps" are discovered, I guess...)
  • How much further would the A-team develop Ark Underground? Or would it merely stop at that?
  • Would the planet's economy be able to stomach all the amount of stuff that's being churned out by the people who does mine there? Cycling about 110k peds in there, per day ain't no joke and does bring about a massive amount of stuff/loot I believe...

- And finally, with respect to CLDs/AUDs/LAs/MS/Privateers...and god-knows what other contraptions that might come up in the future...

I personally feel that, regardless of what others might say or tell you, it is important to make your own decisions about it and accept the consequences, should you choose to acquire something or not. Realize that whatever you choose to do with your own peds and/or money ultimately lies with you yourself. Do not blame others for it. Always think first, before you do something.

(Well...not really sure why I said this...perhaps its to try and instill some sense into others before its too late and they do something they might come to regret? Who knows?

All I know is that, lately, it does appear that posts on the forum is getting more and more ludicrous...in a sense...and I feel that the players might be losing themselves...together with the "lost" "MU".) :yup:
 
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To clear up some misconceptions on Axemurderer's blog, the mobs in the underground don't interfere much with mining. Try it, don't just watch a video of someone else trying to mine and post your opinions. Most of them have almost zero aggro. They were designed that way, specifically to be miner-friendly. Oratan miners and defense bots probably have the biggest aggro range @ like 15m. If you do agro a mob, you can always spawn a vtol to get away (unlike foma or hell). There are a lot of mob free areas too, for those who are afraid of red dots.

As for a day without any payout... activity has been very low this week in both crafting and mining (crafting has been almost zero, possibly due to unusually low TT returns over the last week or two). I'm sure many other land areas go a day without 2000 ped income :) Also the population on Arkadia is nowhere near its target. As more players start and skill up sufficiently they'll start using the underground more.
 
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i have run around in the underground for 1 day out of curiousity,but at 5% tax and not much mu to be found in the mobs there,i doubt i will ever go back there

at the sanctuary cove theres also 5% tax,but when i hunt there i get some sort of refund due to the event that the owner is running,and its a pretty decent reward
 
i have run around in the underground for 1 day out of curiousity,but at 5% tax and not much mu to be found in the mobs there,i doubt i will ever go back there

at the sanctuary cove theres also 5% tax,but when i hunt there i get some sort of refund due to the event that the owner is running,and its a pretty decent reward

Hunting loot needs to be adjusted everywhere, especially on the underground mobs. Once the hides come (next week possibly) they may be more interesting. I can't wait to see Togolossi hide for one...
 
If you feel AUD is not for you and want to liquidate. . I'll buy anyone's stash for 42 ped each... not for resale.

Even if it was 7% return... it is more than any stock dividend that does not also return capital in disguise.
 
i have run around in the underground for 1 day out of curiousity,but at 5% tax and not much mu to be found in the mobs there,i doubt i will ever go back there

at the sanctuary cove theres also 5% tax,but when i hunt there i get some sort of refund due to the event that the owner is running,and its a pretty decent reward

La6 has this too. #shamelessplug
 
While I think planet Arkadia is doing alot for the game and I want to support it by buying more from their deeds there are some Problems I see for Arkadia Underground Deeds that stops me from buying a lot more.

What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.
 
What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.

Doesn't the tax revenue go 100% to deed holders? I don't remember the way the pie is sliced but a more accurate valuation is at best 2-3x the tax, depending on how much of the pp's share is tax instead and MA's cut. Remember, the player does get the majority of the output back.
 
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

No, it's even worse. Any random guy (or gal) can stroll in, fire a few bullets or drop a probe and have (on average) ~90% of turnover back in so called 'loot'. :smoke:

On a more serious note, deed holders get 100% of revenue generated by 5% tax on turnover, Arkadia gets standard share of tt loss (depending on player's planet of origin), and your picture is entirely wrong.
 
What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.


Common core math right here... so wrong on so many levels.

100% of the 5% tax on loot goes to all deed holders. What is still in the broker is directed towards marketing per the A-Team.
 
Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.


Good grief, please follow your own advice. And DO NOT try to invest in anything but a mattress to stuff your hard earned ped into until you do :)
 
What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.

mmm, where to start. ahn,yes.. lol

95+5=100, 5 being the amount of taxes where did the 95 % go ? You know you can right click to loot a mob right ?
 
Hunting loot needs to be adjusted everywhere, especially on the underground mobs. Once the hides come (next week possibly) they may be more interesting. I can't wait to see Togolossi hide for one...

Hmmm....but doesn't the general populace have enough of hides and textures already? I doubt the coming of it would kick up a storm nor aid as a reason to hunting the stuff down there...apart from some novelty texturers/fashion designers interested in those.

The future of AUDs would still be upon how the instances gets implemented down there....and how it links back to the Ark Underground terrain, I believe...

What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.

Hmmm....I believe there's some premise that's wrong with your calculations here.

Well, since we all don't know how exactly stuff works, we can only guess...but I do believe that the source of income for the "owners" of AUDs and the PP/MA is derived differently.

Let's say Player A goes out hunting with 1000 PEDs and comes back with 900 PEDs of loot.

Then in this instance, there is reason to believe that the 5% tax that AUD owners get is about 47.36 PEDs. (Since the 5% tax is taken out of the possible loot that Player A would have gotten were there to be 0% tax on the land area.)

Taking it a bit further, then the PP/MA's portion of the income, might possibly be (1000 - 900 - 47.36) PEDs...the missing peds from the equation...which is roughly 52.64 PEDs. But since we don't know how much of this 52.64 PEDs gets filtered back into the coffers and how much would be kept as earnings for PP/MA, we can only guess that it would be less than 52.64 PEDs, hopefully. And whatever that is....it will be split 50%/50% between PP and MA.

That is my understanding of how the game might be functioning. At least from what I have gathered by reading posts on the forums.

So I'm pretty sure your calculations are a tad off the mark, Shard-Angel.

But anyway, I think its much more reasonable to keep things simple and just think of it as an oversized LA/Foma/Hell/whatever...of which the owners have no control over it.

And with that, the logical questions to be asking would be....what charm does AU have that the other LAs, FOMA, Hell, Monria, don't? So much so that it will be competitive enough to warrant that "high" a selling price...

Not to mention that there's already so much of the same things being around....and the possibility of even more coming, pending on just how the devs are thinking. So is it such a wise thing to do to buy into it, just solely on an unforeseen, not yet known future?

More importantly, should people really even be thinking of it as an "investment" comparable to real life stuff? (Its a joke right? A joke?)

Are they fully aware of the risks involved in their so called "investments"? Are they prepared and willing to accept that...some wrong move from the devs might render their "investments", null and gone? Or to a lesser extent, devalued...much like the recent spate of "MU" debates that we're having.

Worse come to worse, the payouts that we're seeing at the moment, may possibly only be us getting our peds back, for the time being. The MU that certain players are counting on, may rise...and...may fall. So don't you think that you might be counting your chickens too soon (before the eggs are even hatched...)?

Have people thought about it this far? Before putting their precious peds in...

If they have, then I'm certain that there would be less grumblings heard in the forum.

You know...on hindsight...I sometimes wonder if the devs have attracted too much of the wrong peeps into EU (too many people with the "investors" mentality and too few with the "gamers" mentality). It used to be a much friendlier place than compared to now.

Maybe they (MA) should start having another look at their company objectives/motto/direction. Are they steering the player base in the right direction? :wise: Just thinking aloud here... (Think I've digressed too much...hehehe.)
 
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it would be 5% of the 900 loot that what i always taught land owner tax was not what you spend on the land what looted from that land

the only problem i see is that a land erean on other planets go for 100k to 200k maybe a bit more

so 5% tax is devided from 5 to 10 time more poeple that if the cost of the land area 1million vs 100k to 200k

they deluded the profit you could realy get
 
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