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Genuinely not a whining thread

dixon

dixon

Guardian
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Posts
253
Location
Newcastle, UK
Society
Calypso Rescue Team
Avatar Name
Mick Dicka Dicka
OK, I'm going to start by saying this isn't a thread of me whining about loot or how unfair the game is or whatever people perceive it to be. It is simply a question of what people think of my returns over the years and if it is reflective in others.

So, account created 20/04/2004 and had some breaks along the way.
Current level - 75 Blp Sniper, 71 Blp Damage

Now I know I'm not a very high level for being 17 years into the game, but I am 100% natural skills and I hunt pretty much constantly when I am online. I spend the first 5 years approx. without depositing but then started and did deposit quite regularly ever since. Bankroll has always been an issue for me and I have always used (L) weapons when they first appeared in the game. I regularly run 1000ped ammo hunts and do so multiple times a day on a lot of different mobs, mobs which are known for high TT loots (Prots, Warrior Elites, Levi + more on other planets).

Currently, my highest ever solo loot is 1658ped from an Evisc (I also looted a full TT ESI from SK maybe 6-8 years ago but I split that with team mates etc so I class that as team loot)

As it stands, I have had 9 x 1k+ loots in the game, my entropialife profile has me at 247k total loot.


My question is... am I extremely unlucky? Have other players found themselves never seeming to get the big loots? I'm not going to bang on about returns or %s as I know my returns are terrible, partly due to my high risk hunting style I go back to (warrior elites etc).

At what point do I just accept I'm not here to get the 10k loots?


Again, not complaining before anyone jumps on me with "another whining post". I've been here long enough now, I'm not going to whine about things just to log back on again tomorrow, I'm genuinely interested to know if others are in the same situation as me? Hunting pretty much constant and always sitting mid HOF board at best?


TIA
:D(y)
 
For one to get a 10k + hoff he needs to lose 100k
 
Captain Jack said:
Your long term average TT return matters much more than hitting a big HoF.
If you click EP4 on full condition relentlessly, you will get a big HoF in a fairly short period of time - but you will pay dearly for it.
Click to expand...
God, I wouldn't like to work out my % returns, would be depressing for everyone haha
 
Me start playing 12 dec 2020, so im kinda noob here with just lil initial depo tho already had couple 1k+ hof's. Other way my average tt returns in red 80%-ish zone since last hof and i lost 3 times more already hehe. v0v
 
dixon said:
God, I wouldn't like to work out my % returns, would be depressing for everyone haha
Click to expand...
It may not be as painful as you think. Despite all the hate, loot 2.0 really balanced the loot system in some pretty serious ways. Players with a setup worth 10K PED or below can reasonably achieve 95% TT returns, whereas that was a pipe-dream in loot 1.0.
Conversely, gone are the days of the top players printing PED with consistent 120%+ TT returns.
 
The best thing I can suggest is keeping some form of a log, with a field for you to to add a low ball estimated markup on what you looted.

I go through spells where it feels like I’m just losing but am still at long term profit on markup when I check the log.

2 changes that will vastly improve your returns. Buy shrapnel and convert, it’s a free 0.5-0.6%. The second is to try to find an unlimited weapon that fits your budget, even if it’s not loot 2.0 the amount you’ll be spending in mu can be between 1-2% depending on weapon amp etc.

As for if you are lucky or unlucky would all depend of what tt% your log was showing, it’s possible to do extremely well with very few big hofs.
 
warmdogg said:
The best thing I can suggest is keeping some form of a log, with a field for you to to add a low ball estimated markup on what you looted.

I go through spells where it feels like I’m just losing but am still at long term profit on markup when I check the log.

2 changes that will vastly improve your returns. Buy shrapnel and convert, it’s a free 0.5-0.6%. The second is to try to find an unlimited weapon that fits your budget, even if it’s not loot 2.0 the amount you’ll be spending in mu can be between 1-2% depending on weapon amp etc.

As for if you are lucky or unlucky would all depend of what tt% your log was showing, it’s possible to do extremely well with very few big hofs.
Click to expand...
I had a excel sheet for many years and stopped tracking about 3 years ago as the returns were so poor it took all the fun out of the game. As much as I was enjoying it, seeing the 40, 50, 60% returns on such a regular basis just sucked out any joy I had.

I found I enjoy the game more not knowing exact values now, but I still know that when I get back to town after a run and open the TT up, its still not good returns. I mean obviously I have the odd breakeven and profit runs, but I would say over half of my runs are 60% or less.

As for UL gear - I have invested in a Boar Adj set and just 2days ago done the mission for the Adj resto chip. Beyond that, a UL weapon for my skill level would be far too much money to invest for me. After spending that money, I still need ammo to put through it.
 
Maybe you are just unlucky, my instinct tells me it’s more than this and that if your actions are yielding very similar return, time and time again it could be worth altering your play style and see what happens.

I would always prefer a weapon over armour and healing. But if you insist on this route then the cdf daily token guns are well worth considering.
 
I was in same situation until i started to do bigger mobs for a longer period. My 1st uber was last year 1.2k Mulmun. I went after bigger bots and got almost 9k.
After 1 month i got 21k almost in crafting (was on lvl 2 amp light), i must say i tryed EP4 a lot, it just took me down. Chance to get a bigger hof comes imo only if you go to higher mobs or if you are really really lucky.
 
unufain8 said:
I was in same situation until i started to do bigger mobs for a longer period. My 1st uber was last year 1.2k Mulmun. I went after bigger bots and got almost 9k.
After 1 month i got 21k almost in crafting (was on lvl 2 amp light), i must say i tryed EP4 a lot, it just took me down. Chance to get a bigger hof comes imo only if you go to higher mobs or if you are really really lucky.
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My highest ranking codex is warrior as I hunt warrior elites/exterminators quite regularly. There isn't much bigger bots I can regularly hunt other than the Warrior commander but they are just that little bit too hard for my regular imp fappers, could probably do them with mod fap but I'm not so sure there much difference between exterm & commanders in regards to loot potential.
 
warmdogg said:
Maybe you are just unlucky, my instinct tells me it’s more than this and that if your actions are yielding very similar return, time and time again it could be worth altering your play style and see what happens.

I would always prefer a weapon over armour and healing. But if you insist on this route then the cdf daily token guns are well worth considering.
Click to expand...
I would love to have gone for a UL gun other the armor/heal chip but in comparison, the armor & chip are approx 15k. A gun at my level worth having would be upwards of 40k. For anything eff. that is.
 
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The concept is mainly "perception" due to language used for marketing pourpose and reality
1. INVEST in your avatar (we usually think to investing as a procfess that lead to bigger value
2. The direct exchange rate of PED to Dollar and availability of withdraw
3. The loot under ammo

The first sentence makes someone think that His time and money lead to GROWTH in value (in some way Skills do have a TT Value and this TT Value is clearly stated in the Codex reward, as you apply a PED skill bonus in Codex it is reflected in number of skill points gained. adn there are skill value calculators online to see how much the avaar is worth... a 250.000 Skill point avatar could be approximated in 10 pec per skill average that is 2.200 USD in skills.
that is the INVESTMENT in your avatar. if you spend 200 USD to achieve that you multioplied 10x your ped if you spend 4000 USD you halved your investment ... guess what... not all investments lead to profit

second point. the fact that PED can be withdraw makes even worse the perception. it is not SPENT money but TRANSFERRED money... the idea is
a. i get many hours of fun
b. as i am bored i get money back and GG
c. my time has a value so if i hunt i need to profit due my skills and dedication lead me to grow in skill gears and ped card amount

This is all clear if you consider the 3. point... loot is under ammo
so we are in teh best case running on a under.unit martingale scheme that loose 2% every cycle of ammo in TT terms (on average of all players)
to be clear thisis what a 98% return cycle evolves starting from 100.000 ped
100.000 - 98.000 - 96.040 - 94.119 - 92.236 - 90.392 - 88.584 - 86.812 - 85.076 : 9 cycle lead to 15% decrease
if we alter the progression just to 95% it evolves in a very differetn way
100.000 - 95.000 - 90.250 - 85.735 - 81.450 - 77.378 - 73.509 - 69.833 - 66.342 : 9 cycle lead to 34% decrease

as a recap
we are not investing in the avatar, that is just marketing, skill gain is part of the reward due the more you spend the faster you skill
we are PAYING for usign a game, there is no guarantee that the money will ever be withdrawable
the speeed of decay is tied to a random return that gets better with better equip and better skillset

i would add that return are CAPPED in TT term to something like 99% to avoid going over unit with fullshrapnel conversion
that lead to the usual statement.. just MARKUP can recoup that 2% or 5% missiong
and markup is Dynamic, is not guaranteed byut most important of all

MARKUP is generated from player to player transactions adn is nto tied to the game engine
so if someone profit from markup this is to be taken off other ped cards.

Best case scenario is to get with Unlimited items a 98.5% return, get 2% off markup and with the SMALL income pay out the huge MU of UL items
this is you get paid Markup and amortize yours or dont pay for it

the worst case is getting a (L) crafted item that cost 110% (it is not impacting that much oin the single shoot luckily) and get 95% return and no MU
that is you pay all markup and sell none

then... luck factor.. some big "global pool" loots are assigned for marketing purposes of a jackpot dream
some ppl costantly loose on MU, loose on TT return, dont count the skill value and hope to get the big HOF... the gambler attitude at its best shape

some ppl grind to get just MU to grow free.. that is a "business style" that can get off the fun being it a "cost of production and sales matter
(most probably it is the challenge of everyone, to play free or "beat the gamers... for sure its mine)

third way is "iDGAF, i put 10 USD inside, shoot for some hours and its my daiqiri in digital form,,, where a daiquiri can be a porsche in MA garage

just my 2 cents.... all in all we totally strip off the word FUN in the equation,.,. that is probabaly the worst part .....
 
Why are you so fixated on big hofs? Them don't have any importance, seriously. I had one in hunting, in 2008. What does it help me with now? Given that your current activity is not profitable, a big hof will be just a break in depositing, but eventually still a quantity of peds lost back to the game. In regards to being (un)lucky, I am convinced you fit very well right in to the mass average of players, so no, I don't believe you're unlucky.

In regards to your hunting style "high risk" nowadays regards strictly one aspect: whether the MU you're after has a low, average or high chance of dropping. TT risk is irrelevant, also vs bankroll, as long as you deposit. Meaning, I would suppose you went ham on these higher mobs since +-lvl40. If the MU balance would have been right, after all this time, by continuously pumping deposits into bankroll, you should have reached the shore at some point.
 
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Msturlese said:
The concept is mainly "perception" due to language used for marketing pourpose and reality
1. INVEST in your avatar (we usually think to investing as a procfess that lead to bigger value


The first sentence makes someone think that His time and money lead to GROWTH in value (in some way Skills do have a TT Value and this TT Value is clearly stated in the Codex reward, as you apply a PED skill bonus in Codex it is reflected in number of skill points gained. adn there are skill value calculators online to see how much the avaar is worth... a 250.000 Skill point avatar could be approximated in 10 pec per skill average that is 2.200 USD in skills.
that is the INVESTMENT in your avatar. if you spend 200 USD to achieve that you multioplied 10x your ped if you spend 4000 USD you halved your investment ... guess what... not all investments lead to profit
Click to expand...

well, I guess that message dated from early 2000 when it was still project entropia.
And yes, I think you can genuinely say that in that time it surely was an investment to spend ped on your avatar.

I remember selling a 10 ped skill chip with electro (forgot what the old name was back then) for 20.000%.
So spending/investing ped in your avatar did pay off since skills actually had value back then. The market was flourishing.

But overtime skills became (near) useless and worthless.
The skill overkill is extreme now. And the only reason to be highly skilled now is to lose ped even faster.

Also investing in stuff to buy was surely a thing back then.
Buy a deed for 1000 ped. Well, that for sure was a nice investment just to name a thing.

So I think that message was valid back then, but not anymore.
 
I appreciate all the replies but I think we may have missed the point of my opening post.

I know in relation to TT or MU returns, big hofs don't help as what you make will be spent elsewhere or only fill a partial hole I've already dug... EU as a game for me is the thrill of the possibility of looting something big, think of it as fruit machines, I want to see the lights flash... if I put in £50 and get out £40 but the bells and whistles go off in the process then I'll be pretty happy about it.

What I'm trying to say is, if I'm losing peds, fine I have done that for 17 years and I'm still here... but why can't I lose peds with some excitement like others do? These people with 10k loots are still likely to be down peds but they had that flash of excitement of big numbers, exciting loots.

The question was, and still is, is it normal to be a relatively active hunter for 17 years and still only have a best TT loot of 1650 ped? Are there other people in the same situation as me.

Forget returns, its a whole different conversation. I know big HOFs don't mean I win money... it means excitement. Call it a gamblers empty win?
 
dixon said:
God, I wouldn't like to work out my % returns, would be depressing for everyone haha
Click to expand...
Starting to track was the turning point for me, was totally unexpected and contrary to what I was thinking my returns would be, somewhere in 2015, even tho I was using a Ranked Scorpion prior to loot 2.0 at that time. My returns were ~ 95%.
That's where yours should be too, but not after each run, but on average of 2-3 months maybe.

Mindark should implement an ingme tracker, it would boost many player's morale imo since there are MANY who believe 90% is a myth, when 90% would mean disaster (for hunting)
 
dixon said:
The question was, and still is, is it normal to be a relatively active hunter for 17 years and still only have a best TT loot of 1650 ped? Are there other people in the same situation as me.
Click to expand...


I know there was a thread dedicated about this, but can't find it.
All midskilled players who never got a decent hof.
You are for sure not alone!

*edit*
Found the thread for you.

Level 50+ avatars with no uber

Some version of this topic has been posted before. I'm interested to know how rare I am. Maybe I shouldn't have chosen this player name. :laugh: Is there anybody out there who has reached level 50 in their primary profession and not yet scored an uber, which I define as a loot with 1000+ PED...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
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Evey said:
Mindark should implement an ingme tracker, it would boost many player's morale imo since there are MANY who believe 90% is a myth, when 90% would mean disaster (for hunting)
Click to expand...
+1 to that. I wouldn't even mind if I had to buy it from the webshop.
 
Evey said:
Mindark should implement an ingme tracker, it would boost many player's morale imo since there are MANY who believe 90% is a myth, when 90% would mean disaster (for hunting)
Click to expand...

You are still confident that EU will still be playable?
 
dixon said:
The question was, and still is, is it normal to be a relatively active hunter for 17 years and still only have a best TT loot of 1650 ped? Are there other people in the same situation as me.
Click to expand...

Plenty. Most of them, actually. Ok, maybe not 1650, but make it say max 4k? Pretty much all active hunters population would fit there. 5 figures are the exception, not the norm.

Then there's the aspect of volatility. There have been a few years (give or take 2016 to 2019) when hitting a big hof hunting was almost impossible, it was a setting of the system so to say, corresponding to a certain "guaranteed" minimum return. So that's something you must look at also, how rare are those hofs? 2008-2012 we had almost daily 10k trox or 10k ambu or a handfull of them even. Looking for a 5 figure then was one thing, looking for a 5 figure now is another thing.
 
yeeck said:
You are still confident that EU will still be playable?
Click to expand...
Oh yes. It depends on the expectations of each individual but my assumption is that most people will be above what they thought they would be.
MA could consult a psychologist or even a neuroscientist and weight in the benefits but I think the vast majority would be, long term, well above their expectations thus increasing their morale...
 
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I was well into my 12th year of playing with a top solo hunting l00t of 536 PED. If you agree with the multiplier theory, in this time span I had only 2 mults of 500 and 0 of 1000. My first uber then was a mult of 100 only, since it came from an Osseo Mat. Two months ago I finally got my first mult of 1000. Was totally unexpected and thankfully happened on a Levi Mat. Bam! 8k.

It′s really just numbers. If you want the swirlies and can afford it, hunt mobs that cost 5+ PED a piece––each mult of 10 will bring on the fanfare, and you get plenty of those. Plus, with this size of mob, items will pop up quite frequently.

I′d always advocate tracking TT-in/TT-out and PED spent.
 
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GradenFoss said:
It′s really just numbers. If you want the swirlies and can afford it, hunt mobs that cost 5+ PED a piece––each mult of 10 will bring on the fanfare, and you get plenty of those.
Click to expand...


well, if it's purely about swirlies, go hunt kerb providers at Lahar.
Each 10x multi is a swirl.
1 ped mob with a 10 ped swirl threshold.

Lots of cheap swirl animations you can get there ;)

But forget about HOFS :p
 
dixon said:
I appreciate all the replies but I think we may have missed the point of my opening post.

I know in relation to TT or MU returns, big hofs don't help as what you make will be spent elsewhere or only fill a partial hole I've already dug... EU as a game for me is the thrill of the possibility of looting something big, think of it as fruit machines, I want to see the lights flash... if I put in £50 and get out £40 but the bells and whistles go off in the process then I'll be pretty happy about it.

What I'm trying to say is, if I'm losing peds, fine I have done that for 17 years and I'm still here... but why can't I lose peds with some excitement like others do? These people with 10k loots are still likely to be down peds but they had that flash of excitement of big numbers, exciting loots.

The question was, and still is, is it normal to be a relatively active hunter for 17 years and still only have a best TT loot of 1650 ped? Are there other people in the same situation as me.

Forget returns, its a whole different conversation. I know big HOFs don't mean I win money... it means excitement. Call it a gamblers empty win?
Click to expand...
You had a 6.3k ped hof in mining with only 25k total loot in mining. The system is completely fair even though it may not seem like it at times. The problem is people's expectations and how fast they expect to be paid back. I used to be like you play inactive and take many breaks. It's all about consistency and cycle. The more you cycle the closer you'll be to your expected return based on your looter skills and your gear. If the system determines you'll need a 10k+ hof to reach that expected return it's just a matter of time before you get one.
It's not happened in 17 years so you'll have to hunt more it's simple as that. Also it's way harder to get a good multiplier on a bigger hp mob (because of cost and amount of kills). You'll have more chance of 1000x multiplier on a smaller mob.

I do agree with others that mentioned tracking your hunts will really show you that your return is not as bad as you think. Also agree that MA should stop being a afraid and add in-game tracker already. This game needs players that trust the system and are longtime paying customers. Transparency would help with that issue.
 
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Sub-Zero said:
You had a 6.3k ped hof in mining with only 25k total loot in mining. The system is completely fair even though it may not seem like it at times. The problem is people's expectations and how fast they expect to be paid back. I used to be like you play inactive and take many breaks. It's all about consistency and cycle. The more you cycle the closer you'll be to your expected return based on your looter skills and your gear. If the system determines you'll need a 10k+ hof to reach that expected return it's just a matter of time before you get one.
It's not happened in 17 years so you'll have to hunt more it's simple as that. Also it's way harder to get a good multiplier on a bigger hp mob (because of cost and amount of kills). You'll have more chance of 1000x multiplier on a smaller mob.

I do agree with others that mentioned tracking your hunts will really show you that your return is not as bad as you think. Also agree that MA should stop being a afraid and add in-game tracker already. This game needs players that trust the system and are longtime paying customers. Transparency would help with that issue.
Click to expand...

You're right, I did have a good HOF in mining but I was talking hunting. I don't know how the loot theories are currently but do all professions pool together for your TT return?

I hunt 90% of my time online and recently that's been a good few hours a day. I have tracked my returns in the past and I will post them when I can, I dont have the sheets on this laptop and I am working away for a while but I will share them when I get hold of them. But I promise you, I'm nowhere near 80% return even with MU over the 5 years (I think 5 years) I tracked.
 
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