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The elephant in the room

forgo

forgo

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Forgo Forgorth Lundain
So, I wanted to address the elephant in the room that this game has.

This Elephant is a pretty big problem from what I can tell, and has for certain driven players from the game.

I have seen a couple people make some proper observations and question the attributes of certain Avatars.
This post is a response to a rather brutal take down of a new player asking a legit question in public channels.

No...this is NOT natural skilling when you have over *250 in an attribute.
250 was what the new player had stated in chat.

Typical human waking hours are not involved, and EL can often confirm this.

Yes, people do notice the difference over time vs their own experience.

Yes people do notice when the masses descend upon them proclaiming "how dare they question the gods" to support people in full denial of the obvious.

Warping does not give agility. When a new player sees, "they have a warp ship" as an answer, it gives a very false impression.

So I'll just ask MA, and these players...is there any proof at all these attributes were gained like the rest of the player base?
And is it fair to show such favoritism to people who clearly bent the rules?

Me personally I have more stamina than any other, this is because I actually did all the stage 6 missions over decades, and my other attributes are lower than stamina despite 10's upon 10's upon 10's of ks of hours of playtime and over 1 million skill points earned (sold several hundred k's) playing nearly every day since 2006 (many years longer than say Messi) is nowhere near matching what I know, and other players who played straight know.

This is not a personal rant against anyone, I actually don't care what people decide to risk. But We all have an interest of markup that is affected when new players question legitimacy.

Going into Unreal with this game on Epic store with this elephant left alone for the masses to eventually come to the reality of those attributes I think is a risk, that we all would suffer effect from.

I think MA owes an explanation on how some players can seem to have such massive differences to a new playerbase that will NEVER have the opportunity to match them.

Otherwise, this only breeds sceptics who are hesitant to participate.
 
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Have you heard of Codex Meta, that's probably why.. what's your rank there as some are closing in on rank 700.
 
Regardless of previous missions, the maximum codex meta you can get is over 1300.

The influence attributes have is minimal, I don't see a problem with players who have played longer have a few attributes more than newer people.
 
Some repeatables were disabled because reasons. How can a player or MA prove this and most importantly why the fuck should they? What is this bullshit? :ROFLMAO:
Going into Epic we should actually make sure our playerbase knows exactly how LA taxes actually work ;)
 
I have 101 Stamina after a little over 1.5 years on my new avatar and almost over 100 in each other of those particular skills.
And I've been LAZY, I could easily have near 120 in each one.

forgo said:
Me personally I have more stamina than any other, this is because I actually did all the stage 6 missions over decades, and my other attributes are lower than stamina despite 10's upon 10's upon 10's of ks of hours of playtime and over 1 million skill points earned (sold several hundred k's) playing nearly every day since 2006 (many years longer than say Messi) is nowhere near matching what I know, and other players who played straight know.
Click to expand...

Play smarter not harder is my answer to this.


And it's interesting that you claim to have the highest stamina in the game but you don't write how much you have? So how could we know that your claim is correct?


Am also not entirely sure what the benefit would be even if someone went and got 200+ Agility, considering that movement speed is softcapped at 100.

Agility (100 Agility gives 5.07 Movementspeed and 140 Agility gives 5.07 Movement speed, the fastest you could ever be is 5000 Agility which gives you a movement speed of 5.45 which is what the Officials have).


Strength "caps" out at 80, after that it only gives 1 extra KG of carry weight, although it still gives 1 hp per 20 points its barely noticeable compared to other skills that provide hp.

Intelligence barely gives any profession skill effect at all and only gives 1 hp per 80 which is, extremely bad so having more of this wouldn't really impact gameplay in any shape or form even if you had 1000 Intelligence.

Psyche is more of the same as Intelligence, it barely gives any Profession skill effect (5% of the mindforce professions) and 1 hp per 80 points, which means it would barely be noticeable by anyone even if they had an extremely high number.

Stamina is the only attribute that actually makes a decent amount of difference regarding hp levels, but I will pose my question about how useful it would be to boost this stat to extreme numbers here below:


So what my question would be, if someone grinded all of these skills to extreme lengths, what would be the point? If you are already profitting so much that you keep claiming in the game, why would you care what someone else is doing to gain stats?
Wouldn't your playstyle be wastly superior in that case?

Also, if you are going to start throwing around accusations towards people maybe you should back up your claims with information that you are basing these claims on. (Saying "I have the highest Stamina therefore no one else can be close") doesn't really prove anything since we do not even know what your claim is based on.



Maybe you are seeing an elephant because of something you smoked?
 
I dont quite understand what agility has to do with warping.
Im not aware of anyone with super high agility providing a warp service.
Im not aware of anyone over 250 in a single attribute who is a player.
My highest attribute is intelligence at 243 which might be the highest player attribute in game currently - correct me if im wrong.
There is plenty of threads on pcf where i have documented my progress in various categories for many years, feel free to check.
If this is aimed at someone else, no offence taken - if its aimed at me neither ;)
Rocktropia being the only planet left that still has repeatable attribute rewards - it should be obvious how some players got to the attributes they have.
New Mayhems now give attribute rewards in their missions - this over time will close existing gaps as the reward effect is stronger for those with lesser attributes (provided mindark removes all repeatable attribute missions at some point).
There is also the possibility that mindark will reintroduce attribute point/ped reward missions to allow all players to choose how far they want to advance and at which effort.
My attributes currently:
Intelligence 243
Stamina 142
Strength 132
Agility 132
Psyche 131

Metacodex 642
 
whats happening?
 
That's one tiny elephant
 
forgo said:
So, I wanted to address the elephant in the room that this game has.

This Elephant is a pretty big problem from what I can tell, and has for certain driven players from the game.

I have seen a couple people make some proper observations and question the attributes of certain Avatars.
This post is a response to a rather brutal take down of a new player asking a legit question in public channels.

No...this is NOT natural skilling when you have over *250 in an attribute.
250 was what the new player had stated in chat.

Typical human waking hours are not involved, and EL can often confirm this.

Yes, people do notice the difference over time vs their own experience.

Yes people do notice when the masses descend upon them proclaiming "how dare they question the gods" to support people in full denial of the obvious.

Warping does not give agility. When a new player sees, "they have a warp ship" as an answer, it gives a very false impression.

So I'll just ask MA, and these players...is there any proof at all these attributes were gained like the rest of the player base?
And is it fair to show such favoritism to people who clearly bent the rules?

Me personally I have more stamina than any other, this is because I actually did all the stage 6 missions over decades, and my other attributes are lower than stamina despite 10's upon 10's upon 10's of ks of hours of playtime and over 1 million skill points earned (sold several hundred k's) playing nearly every day since 2006 (many years longer than say Messi) is nowhere near matching what I know, and other players who played straight know.

This is not a personal rant against anyone, I actually don't care what people decide to risk. But We all have an interest of markup that is affected when new players question legitimacy.

Going into Unreal with this game on Epic store with this elephant left alone for the masses to eventually come to the reality of those attributes I think is a risk, that we all would suffer effect from.

I think MA owes an explanation on how some players can seem to have such massive differences to a new playerbase that will NEVER have the opportunity to match them.

Otherwise, this only breeds sceptics who are hesitant to participate.
Click to expand...
Forgo..I have known you to always been a very just and honest player and helpful with your information to help the community and a great player that needs to be aknowledged through Entropia websites to help players and yet..zero gratz.

I will ask Mindark to acknowledge the information site you have posted for all players to navigate their way through Entropia Universe.. Thank you and if you are aware of your serious data and such for this game .

They really need to take a knee as I know.you never speak without an important note and message.

This guy will be a very important ally in this game..Listen to him.

Please Mindark..Use this mans knowledge and experience to help progress this game and tap into game knowledge.
 
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Mindark support has indicated in previous communciations that the logs only go back so far in time. They don't keep record after x amount of time. I suspect all records will be clean slate when the new game engine starts up eventually.... so yes, it's an elephant, and yes we are all sitting in the elephant dung... there's not a damn thing you can do about it unfortunately because the zoo keeper is typically on vacation.
 
Check out this post of player attributes PRE-Codex from 2009:
(Unfortunately pics of players lost because it was on old forum).

UBERS of Attributes

PopFuzz skills fast, but I'm not sure Fuzzy's attributes are high enough to be considered "uber". EMW may have a lot of chipped skills, but his attributes are pretty average. you obviously have not scenned him then!:laugh:
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com

If someone is playing 15-20 years and plays 12h a day there's a high chance the attributes will be VERY high...
 
True Juan said:
Check out this post of player attributes PRE-Codex from 2009:
(Unfortunately pics of players lost because it was on old forum).

UBERS of Attributes

PopFuzz skills fast, but I'm not sure Fuzzy's attributes are high enough to be considered "uber". EMW may have a lot of chipped skills, but his attributes are pretty average. you obviously have not scenned him then!:laugh:
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com

If someone is playing 15-20 years and plays 12h a day there's a high chance the attributes will be VERY high...
Click to expand...
Yes..Thank You

I am well aware and have played. Space and other players on ground same time...in Ms and not hunting and ..ok.

I am not going to speculate time vs skills and..well..ummm
 
This is just because of old school repeatable missions giving tokens right? (Shub gave intel and JBK took full advantage of that obviously lol) And MA took most of them away right? So yeah new players will never reach those heights.

Are there others out there still available?

Also, large attributes just gives a fairly small bonus to certain professions. But in the end it all washes out due to skill values mostly. Skills has the largest impact. Basically a tiny bit extra, not a huge difference. 100 stamina is 9 hp, but at 400 hp, that's ~2.5% of your HP value total...
 
Jhereg said:
This is just because of old school repeatable missions giving tokens right? (Shub gave intel and JBK took full advantage of that obviously lol) And MA took most of them away right? So yeah new players will never reach those heights.

Are there others out there still available?

Also, large attributes just gives a fairly small bonus to certain professions. But in the end it all washes out due to skill values mostly. Skills has the largest impact. Basically a tiny bit extra, not a huge difference. 100 stamina is 9 hp, but at 400 hp, that's ~2.5% of your HP value total...
Click to expand...

Also Modfap + fishes/pupugi/diripi back in the day :)
 
It all depends on how you spend your time and what your goals are and were.
When I took rewards I always aimed for attributes as prio one, since those couldn't be skilled up naturally after 2005
if you were around 105-110 and on a low budget. Skill implants is not my thing so never used one to either increase
or decrease skills.

My progress bar in Agility didn't move a pixel since end of 2005 up until we could increase attributes with one token,
so my increase there are 100% from tokens and direct reward, but never done a repeatable mission that rewards with
attributes simply because I didn't have time and/or money for it.
I skilled a lot of medic and evade in 2005 due problems with my shoulder, this was done by walking backwards
with a bunch of mobs and healing. Approved and also checked in to by MA staff, only rule was that as long as I
clicked manually it was ok. No gigantic gains from it though but still better than standing still and doing it.

I have also missed out on several rewards due to the money aspect, and yet I have 213 in Agility now.
These are created with what excist ingame like using F, LMB or RMB, but using F alone will not help in many spawns if
you want to be effective.
Movement is the key, so you always is in range for next mob. If you save 2-3seconds per kill that is 5,5-8,5 hours less
on a 10k kill mission.

So it *was* for sure possible by sticking to the rules and get decent amount in attributes, no AC in the old days,
no macro or software today, but I would never reach these numbers if I began today.
At least not with what I know of the game today, I didn't think I could reach 200 in Agility the day before and earlier
to when they introduced Codex Meta either though.

Now why have I done this the way I have?
For sure not the need to brag and show off, it's done for myself as a challenge. I do think threads that show skills,
attributes and achievements are fun though, but not in a serious way.
I'm to stubborn to go the easy way so I guess thats the reason I still haven't triggered Intuition yet via Evader and
not done it by another profession.
I doubt OP was ment to aim at me with that part about warp service, since only warp service I have done when skilling is
when I empty my pedcard by chosing skills and attributes before profit.
I'm here for the fun.
 
forgo said:
Going into Unreal with this game on Epic store with this elephant left alone for the masses to eventually come to the reality of those attributes I think is a risk, that we all would suffer effect from.
Click to expand...
viykgaU.png


The bigger issue going into Unreal that I think MA should really address is adding an explanation of how the taxes in this game works because it's really disgusting exploiting uninformed players by convincing them losing 4.2% of their TT returns on your land area is "low". New players already have to worry about low looter skills, low efficiency, mostly (L) gear, and on top of that you expect them to survive getting taxed to death while not even realizing it? I'm all for LA owners hyping up their property, but this is just straight predatory...
 
Yazuki said:
viykgaU.png


The bigger issue going into Unreal that I think MA should really address is adding an explanation of how the taxes in this game works because it's really disgusting exploiting uninformed players by convincing them losing 4.2% of their TT returns on your land area is "low". New players already have to worry about low looter skills, low efficiency, mostly (L) gear, and on top of that you expect them to survive getting taxed to death while not even realizing it? I'm all for LA owners hyping up their property, but this is just straight predatory...
Click to expand...

Facts
 
Evey said:
Facts
Click to expand...
always funny when i see that, low 4.2% tax, ppl struggle to get 1% more loot, and he shave them for 4.2% straight, and claiming you get more not less loot :D
 
Yazuki said:
viykgaU.png


The bigger issue going into Unreal that I think MA should really address is adding an explanation of how the taxes in this game works because it's really disgusting exploiting uninformed players by convincing them losing 4.2% of their TT returns on your land area is "low". New players already have to worry about low looter skills, low efficiency, mostly (L) gear, and on top of that you expect them to survive getting taxed to death while not even realizing it? I'm all for LA owners hyping up their property, but this is just straight predatory...
Click to expand...
while i fully agree, it doesnt have anything to do with the original post. op does have a point. we dont have to fully agree to everything, but denying theres at least some truth in what was originally posted would be pure denial in my opinion
 
haxx said:
while i fully agree, it doesnt have anything to do with the original post. op does have a point. we dont have to fully agree to everything, but denying theres at least some truth in what was originally posted would be pure denial in my opinion
Click to expand...
OP is talking about an issue that is detrimental to the game and it's playerbase if left unaddressed moving forward with Unreal and being introduced to the Epic store hence my quote with a related issue. The only truth I agree with him on is that new players will never catch up to old players in attributes due to the removal of old school repeatable attribute missions. Do I care about that even though I'm one of those new players? No not really, it barely has an effect overall and those "gaps" in attribute benefits can easily be made up for by just grinding skills.

Attributes at this point are practically just for "bragging rights" and showing off what you grinded.
 
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