1,000 to 10,000 ped REWARD!

[MadMikeHoare]

Even MA is not THAT daft. If they do that, they will receive far more publicity than they bargained for. There'd first be the publicity of being taken to court. And then there'd be more publicity generated by that childish reaction.

I'm not sure about MA and how they handle serious issues at all. Fact is when it comes to missing items and abuse of any kind they remind you on their EULA and that YOU are responsible for your own stuff. That's paradox in a way because according to what I actually think you don't own anything really but then again MA still is the untouchable ruler of this universe and claims ownage (there is actually no such word) of everything.

I wonder what must happen til they change their ignorance. Someone lose a LandArea or Neverdie lose it's asteroid? When is MA responsible for anything? They can't just keep reminding you on the EULA because this EULA might frighten some 15 year old but not me Also the rules about I'm not allowed to "talk bad" about PE: Half of the people on this forum must have been locked due to criticism they mentioned in their posts and many other negative allegation on how MA handles this and that. The EULA is one big frightening of MAs paying customers that grant them a pretty nice income. Is this the way you treat your customers nowadays? Only tell them what they are NOT allowed to do? I obide to german law when it comes to all this and I obide to irish law when I'm in ireland. I'm glad I played PE from german ground because this means I obide to german law and german law is very customer friendly.

PE is a Online-Casino put in a game environment this means MA must take care of all this. It's like I rent a room in a casino, put stuff there while I go gamble and trust into the casinos security that everything remains there til I come back. Of course I locked the door but somehow someone was able to get into my room and take my "items". Now it's not up to me taking actions, it's up to the people that run this casino to investigate what happened. If they don't, I sue the Casino.

Let's see if I get my withdrawal by time....

 

[Ironheart]

Sorry to be off-topic ... was just wondering how German law was on the subject of support for terrorists?

(Yes, I know you have changed you're IRA avatar now)

Back on-topic ... MA is not, nor should be, a Police Force, they are a software company, you have been provided with everything you need to protect yourself (relevant advice and gold card). Use it, or stfu.

 

[Witte]

I'm not sure about MA and how they handle serious issues at all. Fact is when it comes to missing items and abuse of any kind they remind you on their EULA and that YOU are responsible for your own stuff. That's paradox in a way because according to what I actually think you don't own anything really but then again MA still is the untouchable ruler of this universe and claims ownage (there is actually no such word) of everything.

I wonder what must happen til they change their ignorance. Someone lose a LandArea or Neverdie lose it's asteroid? When is MA responsible for anything? They can't just keep reminding you on the EULA because this EULA might frighten some 15 year old but not me Also the rules about I'm not allowed to "talk bad" about PE: Half of the people on this forum must have been locked due to criticism they mentioned in their posts and many other negative allegation on how MA handles this and that. The EULA is one big frightening of MAs paying customers that grant them a pretty nice income. Is this the way you treat your customers nowadays? Only tell them what they are NOT allowed to do? I obide to german law when it comes to all this and I obide to irish law when I'm in ireland. I'm glad I played PE from german ground because this means I obide to german law and german law is very customer friendly.

PE is a Online-Casino put in a game environment this means MA must take care of all this. It's like I rent a room in a casino, put stuff there while I go gamble and trust into the casinos security that everything remains there til I come back. Of course I locked the door but somehow someone was able to get into my room and take my "items". Now it's not up to me taking actions, it's up to the people that run this casino to investigate what happened. If they don't, I sue the Casino.

Let's see if I get my withdrawal by time....

The personal of a casino is NOT qualified to handle crime situations. In my country we have a police and forensics. These are the people that investigate the crime. And if from that investigation comes that the security of the casino is lacking, you can sue the casino, and then there is a chance that the casino has to repay you.

But in this case its more like you went to the casino bar, dropped your key by accident, and someone gained access. In the realworld the result would be: To bad, all you can do is hope we catch the criminal (police sais that, as its their job), and that you have a good insurance. When the security leak is on MA's side, its a whole different story ofcourse. But I don't think thats the case here. And its the job of the police or forensics to find that out.

So you comparision totaly wrong, sorry.

And it might be true that MA has too much power. But fact is, they are kinda pioneers in this area. So there are simply nearly no laws for it. And in the end, its YOU who accept the EULA everday. If you realy think its that bad, just stop pressing accept

 

[Wannabeelf]

Sorry to be off-topic ... was just wondering how German law was on the subject of support for terrorists?

(Yes, I know you have changed you're IRA avatar now)

Back on-topic ... MA is not, nor should be, a Police Force, they are a software company, you have been provided with everything you need to protect yourself (relevant advice and gold card). Use it, or stfu.

even if you use the advice you are still vunlerable and then MA IS responcable for helping you.

 

[MadMikeHoare]

Sorry to be off-topic ... was just wondering how German law was on the subject of support for terrorists?

(Yes, I know you have changed you're IRA avatar now)

Back on-topic ... MA is not, nor should be, a Police Force, they are a software company, you have been provided with everything you need to protect yourself (relevant advice and gold card). Use it, or stfu.

What does german law, it's subject of support of terrorism have to do with this topic, indeed. What does my old avatar, that was sort of related to the IRA, have to do with anything?

I don't know what your point is if you have one. Fact is MA provides a service and therefor they can be held responsible for theft and other serious issues like, i.E. missing items etc.

So why stfu? Dude? This is all you've got?

Why don't you go back to Northern-Ireland? The IRA might be disarmed but there is always a bullet...

Like my new avatar picture?

 

[MadMikeHoare]

The personal of a casino is NOT qualified to handle crime situations. In my country we have a police and forensics. These are the people that investigate the crime. And if from that investigation comes that the security of the casino is lacking, you can sue the casino, and then there is a chance that the casino has to repay you.

But in this case its more like you went to the casino bar, dropped your key by accident, and someone gained access. In the realworld the result would be: To bad, all you can do is hope we catch the criminal (police sais that, as its their job), and that you have a good insurance. When the security leak is on MA's side, its a whole different story ofcourse. But I don't think thats the case here. And its the job of the police or forensics to find that out.

So you comparision totaly wrong, sorry.

And it might be true that MA has too much power. But fact is, they are kinda pioneers in this area. So there are simply nearly no laws for it. And in the end, its YOU who accept the EULA everday. If you realy think its that bad, just stop pressing accept

I am wrong? How can that be? Dude, did you read what I wrote?

In ANY casinos there are several rules. There are rules that any kind of manipulation are strictly forbidden. There are rules that the casino has to take care for the security of course. There are even rules that you never heard of. Also a Casino has a insurance for cases where people miss items. MA does not have a insurance for such a case, they just use a EULA.

What does the forensics have to do with internet crime? The first thing which is most important is the definition of PE; is it a game or is it sort of a casino! If it is a casino and has to be treated like one then I see a few, even more serious problems coming to MA due to the manipulation in this "game" as they like it. Even their EULA can't protect them if someone has the balls to sue them to the fullest extend possible by law. But why doing this for 1.2k USD or maybe 500USD? Lawyers would cost much more than what you lost.

But all this is just hypothetical. As I mentioned before: I wonder what happens if someone loses his LandArea AND had a GoldCard. There is always a way around.

Even I accept the EULA so many times or would sign a contract that says that I am not allowed to go to the bathroom during work, would it be right? So even by accepting this EULA I doubt that a few things are legal in PE. Don't you think? Never wonder why we are only NOT allowed to do this and that but there is no sentence about what we ARE allowed to do? Do we have any right's? This does not sound very legal to me and I hit accept anyways which does not mean I have no right as a customer when it comes to legal actions.

So the comparsion of PE and a Online-Casino is not that wrong. You don't have the right of loot, you only have the chance, this sounds like the typical content of what a casino gives you on chances. You hunt smaller mobs equal the chance of small loot. you hunt bigger mobs equal the chance of bigger mobs. You play for 100USD in Vegas equal a higher % of what you can win than when you play for pennys. The longer you play BlackJack, the better you understand this game and the more you have the chance of winning because you don't make the same mistakes again and again. Same in PE. The better your skills in, i.E. crafting are, the higher your chance in having success. You don't have a right do have success, just the chance. That's gambling, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[KapokWu]

....
They can't just keep reminding you on the EULA because this EULA might frighten some 15 year old but not me Also the rules about I'm not allowed to "talk bad" about PE: Half of the people on this forum must have been locked due to criticism they mentioned in their posts and many other negative allegation on how MA handles this and that. The EULA is one big frightening of MAs paying customers that grant them a pretty nice income. Is this the way you treat your customers nowadays? Only tell them what they are NOT allowed to do?

Yes, just look around. Amazon, eBay, banks, all they remember to remind
you that your PC safety is on your own hands. They simply don't bother
to take your PC safety on their hands. It is a too hairy thing.
Banks also remind you to keep the keynumber lists or cards somewhere
safe. And eBay also reminds you about the dangers of phishing sites, and
so on. So, MA has business as usual. You cannot keep anything safe in PE
if your PC is not safe. It is true that a normal home-PC, like yours and
mine, is not safe.

There is only one exception to this policy. usually, when a large provider
like eBay gets under a Denial-of-Service-Attack, and it is arranged
by a Troian which is distributed to the user base, they may send you
an email with a specific instructions on how to eliminate the thread.
Also some Executive level groupware providers have supported
security issues, but that is a natural addition to their luxurious business
model.

Your choice is either to park your car on the street or to a parking hall.

It's like I rent a room in a casino, put stuff there while I go gamble and trust into the casinos security that everything remains there til I come back. Of course I locked the door but somehow someone was able to get into my room and take my "items". Now it's not up to me taking actions, it's up to the people that run this casino to investigate what happened. If they don't, I sue the Casino.

Nope, not a single e-whatever provider asks you to trust things are
safe per se. Instead they tell things are safe if you keep your
access info, key number files etc. safe. So it is a CONDITIONAL thing and
you have to provide your own part. Well, we don't know how to do it
but anyways.

Let's see if I get my withdrawal by time....

May take close to 3 months. You still can be robbed meanwhile,
if there is anything on your account. And withdrawal may cost
10-40 USD for you.

 

[TheClansman]

In Ebay you use a public reputation system to qualify your deal with that certain member

Also if you for instance buy something from someone that doesnt ship it to you, you can contact them and they will give a ultimate to the other guy. If he doesnt reply with a prove that he indeed SENT it to you, they will retrieve money ( the value of the deal )from his paypall account and set it back on your paypall account.. Been there done that..

What did MA do? Said we're sorry, its very sad when things like this happen...

I mean.. not to say recover the items, as we've discussed this already on this and on the other similar thread, they could at least BAN the other account..

Even the most crappy CS server is able to do that when a case of cheating is detected ...

If i did some bug exploit i would be blocked asap.. if i steal something worth a few hundreds or thousand $, either due to hacking or scamming, or just acting in bad faith ( ex: stealing something i borrowed ) i go away with it, as its the other persons responsibilty ( wich i agree ) and MA doesnt do anything about it

By not doing nothing MA says that if you have the chance, you should consider scamming, it proves to be the most compensating profession ingame.. since they wont harm you..

Thats my opinion, i dont mean to say that all of you that disagree with me are stupid and im right.. but i would like to let my point of view clear

 

[Dirk]

Roadgravy, it's a long thread so I apologise if this has been answered already, but have you actually contacted the police about this, like MA suggested in their first response to you?

I only ask as if you have not, then it's understandable for MA to not offer any further help, they use this contact the police line as a sort of filter you see; if you are prepared to contact the police and get a crime reference number then they know you are serious and will devote some time to helping more. But if you dont contact the police then they likely just shrug it off as unimportant.

Just a suggestion anyway, you have nothing to lose by reporting it, right?

 

[whyte]

I believe a free goldcard given out to all avatars over a certain skill would have so many more benefits to the PE society as a whole as it would lessen the illegal avatars made everyday by scammers hmm i just had a thought maybe the reason people dont like the idea of the freegoldcard is cause they themselves have made avatars that are illegal made their money by these means eg hundreds of sweat avatars mentor jumping and other scams anyone thought this o0 or is it just me

and if so o0 does mmmmmmmmmmmmma want to have their game scammed by a person making hundreds of sweat avatars by not implementing the freegoldcard they are litrally allowing this to go on allowing new avatars to scam thier legal players left right and center

 

[Dash Smashing]

Just a suggestion anyway, you have nothing to lose by reporting it, right?

Dignity, Sanity, Respect.

Umm.. Depending on how the police determine it as a waste of their time, you might even be charged for 'wasting police time' [yes, it is a charge.] In which case, you'd even lose money.

 

[whyte]

dash a simple statement for something i tried to say earlier

 

[Dominatus]

RoadGravy - Check PM.

 

[Witte]

I am wrong? How can that be? Dude, did you read what I wrote?

I just mean that you cannot compare stolen things from an appartment in PE with a hired room in a casino. They are just too different.

In ANY casinos there are several rules. There are rules that any kind of manipulation are strictly forbidden. There are rules that the casino has to take care for the security of course. There are even rules that you never heard of. Also a Casino has a insurance for cases where people miss items. MA does not have a insurance for such a case, they just use a EULA.

I never claim otherwise.

What does the forensics have to do with internet crime? The first thing which is most important is the definition of PE; is it a game or is it sort of a casino! If it is a casino and has to be treated like one then I see a few, even more serious problems coming to MA due to the manipulation in this "game" as they like it. Even their EULA can't protect them if someone has the balls to sue them to the fullest extend possible by law. But why doing this for 1.2k USD or maybe 500USD? Lawyers would cost much more than what you lost.

For prosecuting a suspect, it doenst realy matter where the crime has taken place. The law applies everywhere(in that country). There are ofcourse exceptions, but in that case both parties agree to those conditions.

But all this is just hypothetical. As I mentioned before: I wonder what happens if someone loses his LandArea AND had a GoldCard. There is always a way around.

Even I accept the EULA so many times or would sign a contract that says that I am not allowed to go to the bathroom during work, would it be right? So even by accepting this EULA I doubt that a few things are legal in PE. Don't you think? Never wonder why we are only NOT allowed to do this and that but there is no sentence about what we ARE allowed to do? Do we have any right's? This does not sound very legal to me and I hit accept anyways which does not mean I have no right as a customer when it comes to legal actions.

Ofcourse, at this moment, MA is some sort of dictator. I agree this is wrong. But there are simply no legal ways to force rules and rights upon MA at this moment. And if there are, it will happen in time. But the whole virtual world is not significant enough for that yet. So its a process that will take some time. In the future there will be more and more legal departments from the gouverment to handle virtual property. It might even be possible to ensure virtual property at an ensurance company.

So the comparsion of PE and a Online-Casino is not that wrong. You don't have the right of loot, you only have the chance, this sounds like the typical content of what a casino gives you on chances. You hunt smaller mobs equal the chance of small loot. you hunt bigger mobs equal the chance of bigger mobs. You play for 100USD in Vegas equal a higher % of what you can win than when you play for pennys. The longer you play BlackJack, the better you understand this game and the more you have the chance of winning because you don't make the same mistakes again and again. Same in PE. The better your skills in, i.E. crafting are, the higher your chance in having success. You don't have a right do have success, just the chance. That's gambling, nothing more, nothing less.

I think the most significant difference between offering gambling and offering a game, is that with gamblin, part of the money goes to the party that offers the service. If all money goes back to the participants, I dont think it can be classed as gambling. It would be the same as lending out a deck of cards in a bar to let some customers play a game of blackjack. The bar wont earn its money with the blackjack itself, but with the drinks they sell. With a casino thats different AFAIK. But i am no expert in this area, i can only guess that thats the reason why PE isnt classed as a gambling game.

Anyway, its getting offtopic

 

[RoadGravy]

I just mean that you cannot compare stolen things from an appartment in PE with a hired room in a casino. They are just too different.

Your right .......... in a Casino if I got Jacked by a Thug the Casino security would arrest his ass and turn him over to the Police.

In PE with MA however they choose to ignore all and let their valuable customers get robbed in side THEIR virtual world.

Maybe MA should take lessons from the Casinos with respect to customers and security.


RoadGravy

 

[MadMikeHoare]

Dignity, Sanity, Respect.

Umm.. Depending on how the police determine it as a waste of their time, you might even be charged for 'wasting police time' [yes, it is a charge.] In which case, you'd even lose money.

You don't have lose money if you sue someone. You have the choice of civil law or penology. In penology cases the police HAS to investigate a case and see if there are several violations based on the code of law. In a civil law case YOU have to directly sue a opponent by your lawyer. Then you have costs in case you lose this clash. And why is it wasting the police time? The police HAS to investigate if it comes to the strong suspicion of the violation of local or even international code laws. That's why there are such institutions as there are Interpol and many others. In our case the local criminal investigation dep. would just ask the swedish police for their support and the swedish police would have to investigate if there is a violation of swedish law by using such a EULA or, if defined as online-casino, if manipulations violate swedish codes of law.

 

[Kat-napper]

If you own an expensive item, you should be able to flag it to be unsellable or tradable. When you unflag this, you should get a confirmation email, and there should be at least a 7days (or longer) delay in the unflagging.

This system would also prevent items to go accidently in the TT.

Too bad for your loses :\

+REP MY MAN!!

 

[Witte]

Your right .......... in a Casino if I got Jacked by a Thug the Casino security would arrest his ass and turn him over to the Police.

In PE with MA however they choose to ignore all and let their valuable customers get robbed in side THEIR virtual world.

Maybe MA should take lessons from the Casinos with respect to customers and security.


RoadGravy

Yeh great idea, there should be an MA security team. And to pay them, MA should simply lower all loots by 20%.

Wake up! MA is currently too small to hire personnel dedicated to security matters. I hope it will never happen, as the game costs WILL go up then. And only the poor people that refuse to buy a gc would benefit from it (and some naive, stupid and careless people). No thanks.

 

[Dash Smashing]

Everyone in this thread is saying the same thing "get a gold card! you'll be invincible!" ...


I dont use a gold card for my online banking.

If someone hacked my online banking, I would be on the phone YELLING at my bank.

My bank would fix the problem, not say its my fault.

Same with fraudulent credit cards.

*LOTS* of credit card companies these days offer 'fraud protection', due to the increase of online/credit card fraud.. If you see a purchase on your bill you didnt pay for, you call them up, and IT GETS ERASED. =P

Yes, the Credit Card Company fixes the problem, they do not say "Its your fault, find the crook, and have the police arrest him, then we'll give them the appropriate documents."

Whatever. Its the online world, a world of passwords.. I understand the need for a little discretion.. Different passwords for different sites, not having a keylogger running, not visiting javascript trojans.

MA isnt entirely evil, they *have* gold cards. They've implemented a system that makes it much harder to get in. Bravo..

But people are still getting in, so its not enough. =P

Time to give the users more options.. The ability to see last 5 ip logins.. the ability to 'lock' an account to a single class C.. I dont know, maybe even a text dump BUILT INTO the cilentloader to flood any keyloggers. Get creative.

 

[RoadGravy]

Yeh great idea, there should be an MA security team. And to pay them, MA should simply lower all loots by 20%.

Wake up! MA is currently too small to hire personnel dedicated to security matters. I hope it will never happen, as the game costs WILL go up then. And only the poor people that refuse to buy a gc would benefit from it (and some naive, stupid and careless people). No thanks.

Part of the reason the game cost is high is that there are only 300k to 400k registered users vs 3 million to 4 million registered users.

With problems like Stealing in the game with no recompense for the Players ........ no recourse besides the lame standard answer "contact the police".......... PE will stagnate at the current level of players.

And if you REALLY want to see costs go up ......... just watch what happens if there is any mass exodus in players.


Think about it .................


RoadGravy

 

[Witte]

There are no problems with stealing in the game. The problem is stealing OUTSIDE the game. And that is of your persenal login data. And there IS a solution, called GC. And yes, I agree security should be made better with suggestions I made earlyer.

But having MA as police is the day PE dies. Just think of the possibilities to lock another person, simple by accusing him.

Think about that ...

 

[RoadGravy]

There are no problems with stealing in the game. The problem is stealing OUTSIDE the game. And that is of your persenal login data. And there IS a solution, called GC. And yes, I agree security should be made better with suggestions I made earlyer.

But having MA as police is the day PE dies. Just think of the possibilities to lock another person, simple by accusing him.

Think about that ...

PE won't die until MA turns it off.

PE can however and most likely will STAGNATE.

As soon as a player knows that his uber skills can be drained down or his nice weapons and armor can be removed and sold with out his/her permission NOBODY in the right mind is going to invest ANY substantial amount of real cash in MA's nonsecure Game.

If you think all the noobs and non depositors sweating running around trading support the game where MA has cash revenues to pay themself, then think again genius.

The Gold Card will not stop intrusion into the PE system.

What will Gold Card members do the first time MA says to them "sorry it must be you and not us" ?

Do I see an insurance policy coming with purchase of the Gold Card ............... ahh no.

So really what you are being sold is a false sense of security that will last only until either you are hit or others are hit.

AND THE MAIN PROBLEM HERE IS ........... MA IS DOING NOTHING.

Not even a thank you very much (your items and peds are gone forever) .......... not a word .......... not a peep ........ Marco is silent .

Whats wrong with this picture ?

MA and thieves profit and the Players get nothing ?

Come on MA you can do better than this.

YOU have a GREAT GAME

MA don't let your silence give the impression that you really don't care.


RoadGravy

 

[Dirk]

...so did you report it to the police or not?

You dont need them to investigate or take you seriously, you just report it, have them take your report and get a crime reference number - then and only then can you expect any help from MA.

You cannot be charged with wasting police time in this issue.

 

[Witte]

How do you know that MA will say its your fault when your GC is hacked? Has it ever happened? You are just brableing some nonesense and your tone is becomming insulting, so tabee.

 

[Ironheart]

As soon as a player knows that his uber skills can be drained down or his nice weapons and armor can be removed and sold with out his/her permission NOBODY in the right mind is going to invest ANY substantial amount of real cash in MA's nonsecure Game.

Do you seriously believe this thread has informed Deathifier, Akoz, Neverdie etc of things they didn't already know?

MA simply cannot afford to take on the role of Police Force.

They can't afford the time and money it would need, and they can't afford the grief and bad publicity that every single disputed case would bring.

Its never gonna happen, so buy the GC and follow MA's advice on passwords and loaning items.

 

[TheClansman]

Do you seriously believe this thread has informed Deathifier, Akoz, Neverdie etc of things they didn't already know?

MA simply cannot afford to take on the role of Police Force.

They can't afford the time and money it would need, and they can't afford the grief and bad publicity that every single disputed case would bring.

Its never gonna happen, so buy the GC and follow MA's advice on passwords and loaning items.

No ones asking for a police force.. the thing is:

They cannot retrieve the items because of the inumerous problems that some have already point out.. - ok its an opinion.. i dont agree with it, but i can live with that..

What really bothers me is that, either MA retrieves the items or not, they do know when something unusual happens.. They cant (maybe) get your items back because theres too many ppl involved already, or because they cant know if there is an external deal, but they DO know that at least the player who got the item ( 2nd party on the deal ), acted against the eula, and in bad faith.. However, what does happen to this person? Nothing.. of course it would happen if he bug exploited..

I mean im not just talking about hacking.. as the GC helps you there.. but in scamming?

Just because someone was naive enough to trust somebody he "knows" ingame for a year or more he doesnt deserve to get his item back?

So in a comunity and society based game/virtual universe, you cant share anything with anyone unless you know him personally? - Well that makes sense.. but takes out much of the possibilities of PE in my view..

Come on... even the most crappy game servers ban ppl for cheating..

 

[Ironheart]

Just because someone was naive enough to trust somebody he "knows" ingame for a year or more he doesnt deserve to get his item back?

Although it sounds incredibly harsh, I would have to say no.

Of course, in some cases it would be very easy to identify the 'bad guy', but in lots of cases its just a 'he says / she says' thing. So you're asking MA to make a judgement on who's telling the truth.

Now in a game like WoW, what the hell does it matter if Blizzard say OK, Player A is the rightful owner of Item X? Player B can just go out and loot another. But in PE, saying Player A is the rightful owner of an Improved FAP is a bit different.

I have no doubt there would be lawyers involved, and quite frankly I dont want my deposits paying MA's lawyers.

So in a comunity and society based game/virtual universe, you cant share anything with anyone unless you know him personally? - Well that makes sense.. but takes out much of the possibilities of PE in my view..

Sad, but true I'm afraid. Not really MA's fault, its the way humans are

I really hope MA bring in an in-game loan system, it would help to stop some of these problems, at least.

 

[ViagraFalls]

I really hope MA bring in an in-game loan system, it would help to stop some of these problems, at least.

That has been begged for for ages. They are most likely too busy creating other usefull stuff like making snables doing backflips.

 

[Lady Rando]

That has been begged for for ages. They are most likely too busy creating other usefull stuff like making snables doing backflips.

ROFLMAO, you crack me up Viagra.

 

[Ironheart]

That has been begged for for ages. They are most likely too busy creating other usefull stuff like making snables doing backflips.

*gets out credit-card*