Add more uses for attributes!

[UnVieh]

Have you seen the eco of mindforce when adding implant decay?

(also note that most chips with good eco have high markup and/or are near-impossible to find)

dont know about the higher mf chips just was thinking that in melee you are closer to the mob and weapons mostly have low durabiltiy so for a new player it seems melee is costly profession

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

dont know about the higher mf chips just was thinking that in melee you are closer to the mob and weapons mostly have low durabiltiy so for a new player it seems melee is costly profession

I would actually claim that MindForce is the combat type with the highest amount of cons at the moment but that is in my opinion of course

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Agility
Agility is a basic attribute available to all Avatars. It influences almost every action where coordination, finesse and grace are involved.

Agility ingame allows you to run faster. I am not sure that really is in line with what the ingame description tells us about it, but it is still a perk given to those with high agility - you run faster.

Health
Health is the amount of punishment your Avatar can sustain before he or she dies.

Pretty straightforward with health. You got it, you live longer.

Stamina
Stamina is a basic attribute available to all Avatars. It influences almost every action where bodily hardiness, constitution, and physical toughness are involved.

Stamina helps your toughness and constitution according to ingame info, and it helps health a lot so that is basically correct.

Strength
Strength is a basic attribute available to all Avatars. It influences almost every action where raw muscle power, lifting capacity, and brute force are involved.

Helps in actions where muscle power and brute force is needed by giving a boost to melee levels. However, also helps your lifting capacity by allowing you to carry more and has a much larger effect on health than Intelligence or Psyche (4x higher effect).

Intelligence
Intelligence is a basic attribute available to all Avatars. It influences almost every action where the mind, memory, or reasoning are involved.

Contributes a little bit to mining, crafting, scanning, coloring and some mindforce levels.

Psyche
Psyche is a basic attribute available to all Avatars. It influences almost every action dealing with willpower, mental strength, and mindforce.

Contributes a bit to mindforce levels.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

You don´t get nobody want anything for free?

What is the difference between a melee/ranged hunter cycling 1000 PED/day and MF hunter cycling 1000 PED/day.

Thats what we want to point onto:
Melee+Ranged get Str+Agi what helps to run faster/carry more.
MF hunter gets Int+Psyche what does nothing additional

Thats why we asked for a use of Psyche+Int beside HP gains, Prof standing.

-REP for not thinking befor posting, nobody said we want attributes for free, we skill that attributes and have to pay to get it same as every other hunter, too!

Sidenote:
I not a MF hunter, prefer melee+laser
Still can see the unfairness in it!

First off thank you for the neg rep not that I give a shit.

I am almost sure this is NOt the first game you have played using an rpg base for creating characters / avatars.

Why the hell would you want the classes to all be the same? You CHOSE to play a class. You KNOW what that classes abilities are from start. Why the hell are you guys whining I wanna be like every one else. Play the fuckin ava to its advantages. If you dont like the classes faults play another dam class FFS. The only way to change that in ANY mmo/rpg is to multi class. Its as simple as that. The only thing different here is you are spending real money. That does NOT entitle you to play as a God and be or do everything.

Jesus people has WoW contorted your thought processes that everything should be handed to you on a silver platter and you should be able to do everything imaginable after the first few months.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Why the hell would you want the classes to all be the same? You CHOSE to play a class. You KNOW what that classes abilities are from start. Why the hell are you guys whining I wanna be like every one else.

How does adding fair and equal gain to all classes rather than creating a bias for the few (hunting) make "all classes be the same"?

Either you do not understand what the issue is, or you are just trolling this because you have a grudge against me. No matter which of those it is, I do hope we can agree that you posting any further in this thread is pointless since you will obviously not change your mind.

 

[Jimmy B]

Attributes (apart from HP) have always had a pretty minimal impact in EU, some more impacts could add depth.

Why the hell would you want the classes to all be the same?

I don't think that's being suggested. Normally classes have various different advantages and disadvantages. In terms of attributes in EU, unless they have unknown advantages, Intelligence and Psyche are clearly less useful than Agility and Strength.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

How does adding fair and equal gain to all classes rather than creating a bias for the few (hunting) make "all classes be the same"?

Either you do not understand what the issue is, or you are just trolling this because you have a grudge against me. No matter which of those it is, I do hope we can agree that you posting any further in this thread is pointless since you will obviously not change your mind.

Not liking you has nothing to do with it however true that may be.

It is the total incomprehension of the rpg concept here that you are failing to grasp simply to advance your avatar easier. If it was meant for each class to be equal in all things then there would have been only one type to play here. That is not the case.

I will however agree that MA has failed to move forth in developement of anything other then hunting in a long long time other then simply redoing things to make them more profitable from it.

That being said posting on this forum begging them to GIVE something to a class of avatar is far different then suggesting or rallying that they redo a class in an objective and fair manor to balance the lack of a class to do the other things different classes can do. All you did was ask to get something your class of avatar was NOT intended to have from day one. The balance for MF skillers should be they use that force with their minds and thus should not even require physical gear to do so as their base advantage. THEN all the gear that is in game becomes the MF version of amps. (this is just an example. Please dont do your standard and twist something irrellevent into your next post)


Edit: to make this all FAR more simple.. what you are asking is basicly to have a rocket scientist be able to play in the super bowl...That does not work no matter how you look at it.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Edit: to make this all FAR more simple.. what you are asking is basicly to have a rocket scientist be able to play in the super bowl...That does not work no matter how you look at it.

A FAR better metaphor for what I am asking for would be:

Please let the worlds best rocket scientist get at least as much pay as the worlds best football player. After all, he spends at least as much time on his mind and aquiring knowledge as the football player does on becoming strong and good at football.




I am not asking for any kind of unfair advantage, I am simply asking for professions to have equal opportunity instead of some professions being left behind while others get more and more.



I assume that you would have been for a suggestion to remove the effects of strength of your carrying weight limit then, as this was a bonus thing given to melee users not that long ago after people had been asking for it on the forum? If not, you're a hypocrite.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

Attributes (apart from HP) have always had a pretty minimal impact in EU, some more impacts could add depth.



I don't think that's being suggested. Normally classes have various different advantages and disadvantages. In terms of attributes in EU, unless they have unknown advantages, Intelligence and Psyche are clearly less useful than Agility and Strength.

Well wouldnt logic dictate that someone using their mind would NOT get physicly stronger other then the need to hold up a fatter head? Does a person get stronger by working out or by thinking about working out? The balance for an MF user in an attrib would be stamina. Again asking for his ava to get something it was never intended to have in the name of balance only furthers the inbalance. Unless the ava was multi classed which is how they system is designed to be.

To me an ava using MF would have the stamina to make him cast faster and do more damage for sustained periods of battle to compensate for the lack of physical prowess. this would be their way to gain their health to balance out lack of Str health gains. As far as them carrying load weight that would be balanced by some sort of teleportation skill or maybe even a levitation skill to move his loot from point A to point B.

Im not bitchin about the balance issue. MA is tilted so badly on many things within EU. As far as I am concerned they need to fire the clueless people there balancing the game strictly based on how much money someone can sink into it and get someone with a clue to make this viable to grow at any monetary level in a fair manor. I am put off by the lack of thought these SAME people who keep posting all this crap put into self serving topics and the friends who jump blindly on their bandwagon when someone confronts them and how that all effects the rest of the player base.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Well wouldnt logic dictate that someone using their mind would NOT get physicly stronger other then the need to hold up a fatter head? Does a person get stronger by working out or by thinking about working out?

I do not care about carrying more, that is a strength thing. However, Psyche should give some kind of extra benefit that helps a MindForce user, just like strength and health gains does for a melee user. Just like health and agility gains does for a ranged hunter.

Again asking for his ava to get something it was never intended to have in the name of balance only furthers the inbalance.

How do you know what is intended or what has been intended? Read the ingame description of Psyche and Intelligence again, they obviously have some kind of intended use, only it has no use now except a tiny benefit to profession leveling, which all attributes have.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

A FAR better metaphor for what I am asking for would be:

Please let the worlds best rocket scientist get at least as much pay as the worlds best football player. After all, he spends at least as much time on his mind and aquiring knowledge as the football player does on becoming strong and good at football.




I am not asking for any kind of unfair advantage, I am simply asking for professions to have equal opportunity instead of some professions being left behind while others get more and more.



I assume that you would have been for a suggestion to remove the effects of strength of your carrying weight limit then, as this was a bonus thing given to melee users not that long ago after people had been asking for it on the forum? If not, you're a hypocrite.

Im not a hypocrite in anyway.. I skilled melee intentionally because I KNOW I had to if I were to carry more loot while I mined and that mining does not have a trait that would bring at up. For the record no the thought never crossed my mind that I was baised against because I could not carry as much as a hunter. I knew that from day one and planeed to skill something to build that trait. Common sence play from any RPG standpoint, learn the class strengths and weaknesses and develope a plan to compensate for them as best the rules will allow.

As far as the rocket scientist having same as football player you are talking apples and oranges in terms of what the gains of each would be and what rules would be used to define even. That refrence was strictly for the strength vs intellegence comparrison. For general knowlege I am a billion percent sure that the best rocket scientist in the world makes out far better in the long run then the football player ever could. Grants, less medical costs / risks, longevity, patent returns, science awards.... etc

The returns is a whole seprerate issue which I asked you not to throw in something totally irrelevate into the mix. Just go back to all them threads you posted in telling everyone that everything balances out at 90% return over time. (Unless you are a hypocrite)

 

[das]

yes pld add more hp gain for psyche, then we can crash the shit out of mindforce skillmu & we have something real to whine about..
What happened to the adjust or live with it part?

 

[Trina Xenophage]

I do not care about carrying more, that is a strength thing. However, Psyche should give some kind of extra benefit that helps a MindForce user, just like strength and health gains does for a melee user. Just like health and agility gains does for a ranged hunter.





How do you know what is intended or what has been intended? Read the ingame description of Psyche and Intelligence again, they obviously have some kind of intended use, only it has no use now except a tiny benefit to profession leveling, which all attributes have.

See this is why you piss me off so much. You get focused on the minor details in someones post and try poorly to manipulate them by pulling snippets. If you payed ANY attention at all you will see I conceeded the point there needs a rebalance done to the game mechanics.

Quote: MA is tilted so badly on many things within EU. As far as I am concerned they need to fire the clueless people there balancing the game strictly based on how much money someone can sink into it and get someone with a clue to make this viable to grow at any monetary level in a fair manor.

As far as knowing what is inteneded.....uh ITS A VIDEO GAME IN AN RPG FORMAT...anyone who has ever played one KNOWS that the classes each have special traits that seperate one from another. Asking to have or use abilities NOT meant for that class is showing how unknowing you are about how they work. At this point you should know that if you want any or all of the attributes not directly attached to you chosen class that you need to multi class (AKA skill some other dam skill to produce the desired result)

What this all boils down to is that several classes in game are severly unbalanced in the cost vs gains when compared to the main class of hunter who recieves the most in base benefits. I get that. Asking that things be given to a class simply because another class can do it though is just wrong. If you are going to ask for specific things to change think out what is needed vs what is wanted and not just how it will effect your avatar but also the rest of the playing community before posting your wants as the games needs.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Im not a hypocrite in anyway.

Higher strength allowing the user to carry more is a bonus that was added fairly recently. I am asking for bonuses with similar usefulness (not similar effect) to be added to all attributes to make it fair.

If you are for the change in strength usefulness but against a change in other attributes to match, you are a hypocrite.

yes pld add more hp gain for psyche, then we can crash the shit out of mindforce skillmu & we have something real to whine about..
What happened to the adjust or live with it part?

This is not about health gain, did you even read the thread and the suggestion?

 

[Trina Xenophage]

Higher strength allowing the user to carry more is a bonus that was added fairly recently. I am asking for bonuses with similar usefulness (not similar effect) to be added to all attributes to make it fair.

If you are for the change in strength usefulness but against a change in other attributes to match, you are a hypocrite.





This is not about health gain, did you even read the thread and the suggestion?

Ok you REALLY need to get a clue here man. The strength change was a rebalance done to make the classes use of it more fair. It was NOT a recent bonus to anyone and it was more of a nerf then an aid because they lumped in carried articals to counter balance that back when my shorts were 6 slots in size. Just like the change from 9 stamina to start and the new 0 stamina. That was rebalanced as well and was stated so yet soo many say that they got robbed by having to start at 0. Until that change stamina had no effect in game at all. That change was made when they actually had incorporated a use for it.


Now as far as other Attributes giving bonuses they do in their own intended way. What you are on about here is that these uses are not so obvious to you. They probably enhanced that confusion with a huge nerf that had to be done to ALL attribuutes effects since they hand attribs out like candy now to hunters in missions. The only reason you see the str and health changes in the hunting profession is because they used to be predominate and their effects were easily seen.

Again we are back to a balancing issue and not an effect of an attrib and any associated benefit being compared to what progress was actaully seen prior to the nerfs due to mission attribs. And yet again, no wait STILL, you are trying to manipulte what I think with your statements. If I were a hypocrite I would not have bitched about the agi nerfs where I can no longer out run mobs I did the first month I played even tho I have 70 agi and only had 15-20ish agi back then. Oh btw I believe you were one of the ones on the bandwagon saying I was nutz that agi was nerfed when you all said I had no clue what I was talkin about so who is being hypocritical now that your saying the same things?

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

The strength change was a rebalance done to make the classes use of it more fair.

Due to the addition of strength deciding how much people can carry, melee now has an even larger unfair advantage over for example MindForce, since its associated attribute gives an extra bonus when you skill it up.

Oh btw I believe you were one of the ones on the bandwagon saying I was nutz that agi was nerfed when you all said I had no clue what I was talkin about so who is being hypocritical now that your saying the same things?

To be honest, I really can not remember having said such a thing.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

Due to the addition of strength deciding how much people can carry, melee now has an even larger unfair advantage over for example MindForce, since its associated attribute gives an extra bonus when you skill it up.




To be honest, I really can not remember having said such a thing.

Ok one last attempt to help you here dude.

A melee user CHOSES melee because of that added strength class bonus.
You chose MF because the range and different types of damage (if you are normal in anyway)

You bitchin that melee str gains are unfair and wanting more for yourself is like a knife user bitching because he does not have the 85m range of an MF user.

As far as your memory regarding past posts just look at the neg reps you gave me over time since you are 85% of all the ones I ever got I am sure one of them refrences the nerfs and your views how uneducated I am.

Now that being said...I can not bow down this low to explain this to you any more my back hurts. I am going back to bed.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

A melee user CHOSES melee because of that added strength class bonus.
You chose MF because the range and different types of damage (if you are normal in anyway)

I chose MindForce because it is fun and was my dream since I started 2005 to become good in.

I would assume that most people choose their profession based on what they think is the most fun, not because it happens to have some extra gain (although some people are probably forced to choose another profession than the one they really like because it is too costly or whatever... that is the problem I had until they added Synthetic ME and made it more fair for MF users costwise).

Again, all I want is for the professions to be more fair. This is not possible if one profession keeps getting more pros than others.

 

[GoNi]

As far as knowing what is inteneded.....uh ITS A VIDEO GAME IN AN RPG FORMAT...anyone who has ever played one KNOWS that the classes each have special traits that seperate one from another.

Well I played a lot other MMO RPGs, and nearly every MMO I played so far had a use for every atribute and not only 2 out of 5.


In other games:
Int was a DMG modificator to magic/psionic
Int was modificator for the abillity of trade
Int modified learning spead of scientific skills
Int modifed outcome (CoS) in crafting

Psyche was DMG modificator for magic/psionic
Psyche was resistence modificator against magic/psionic

In EU Int does nothing nor does Psy or Stam, while Str and Agi actually do something.

But actually discussion about that with you is obsolete, as you are so super experienced with so many other MMO RPGs where at least one or two classes have definately an obvious disadvantage and all players are fine with it!

Out of this now!

 

[safara]

To Nighthawk and Trina Xenophage

Please cut out comments that get too personal. I don't really want to get into your posts and edit them as there is actually a good discussion going on in there.

Thanks

 

[Naithen]

Increased "smarts" should lower the ammount of times you MISS! And Increase dispence decoy effective "time" (makes the decoy effect last longer). Pyche - Stop a mob from attacking you by mentally telling it "im not the avatar you want to eat"

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Pyche - Stop a mob from attacking you by mentally telling it "im not the avatar you want to eat"

So kind of like lowering aggro on mobs that has lower (or calculated according to some equation)?

Merp Provider - 3 psyche
Atrox Young - 10 psyche
Maffoid Guard - 30 psyche

Maybe have that you need twice the psyche? so someone with 16 would not be as likely to be attacked by the Merp (although that wouldn't help much since they have so high aggro to start with) while someone with 42 would be less likely to be attacked by the Merp and the Atrox but not the Maffoid, which would then require 60 psyche?

 

[Artrat]

So kind of like lowering aggro on mobs that has lower (or calculated according to some equation)?

Merp Provider - 3 psyche
Atrox Young - 10 psyche
Maffoid Guard - 30 psyche

Maybe have that you need twice the psyche? so someone with 16 would not be as likely to be attacked by the Merp (although that wouldn't help much since they have so high aggro to start with) while someone with 42 would be less likely to be attacked by the Merp and the Atrox but not the Maffoid, which would then require 60 psyche?

This is a great idea . In a lot of the MMO's I have played the higher level you are the less low-level mobs will aggro you. And let's face it, if you're out hunting spiders it's irritating having to stop for every random Merp that starts chewing on your armour.

It would also be a great incentive for people to skill mindforce, especially miners.

 

[Akbar]

I always saw a direct relation between MindForce and Taming.

MindForce is the Power of the Spirit,
Taming is the Ability to use knowledges of the surrounding creatures.

In a certain way, you could compare the direct relation between MindForce levels and Taming
To how this is explained in the Movie Avatar.
Creatures are not behaving well because the players would pay something for it,
but simply because of their skilling work with certain levels and abilities.

Then Hidden Skills (if they are hidden, that's for a good reason) could have a real impact on abilities...
Power Catalyst, MindForce Harmony, Force Merge.


Attributes should be a way to combine all abilities together to make a solid content,
instead of beeing completly dissociated numbers like today.

Some new skill linked to MindForce and Taming together could appear then :

Relax : The ability to cool down the anxiety of a creature in a stress situation.

Persuasion : The ability to modify the level of aggressivity of a creature,
There could be a bar : Low aggressivity = docile, high = ready for war.

Intuition (which is simply now IMPOSSIBLE to reach), could have a direct relation to taming too.

I think relations between each attributes could be digged for future contents.

Some new skills appeared with the vu10.x times in MindForce,
but what are they for ? Dan explained it well in a previous post, like Telepathy.

A lot of great ideas could make this game an enjoyable universe,
where people like to be and to stay in a real entertainement.


Saddly, today i see the main word : screw 2000 to reward 1
(to advertise totally faulse ideas)...

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I always saw a direct relation between MindForce and Taming.

MindForce is the Power of the Spirit,
Taming is the Ability to use knowledges of the surrounding creatures.

Hmm yes this is actually something I have been thinking about as well... although I was more thinking of ideas for MindForce telepathy chips that would help taming (and perhaps require a mix of taming and mindforce skills) by calming mobs, healing pets, making an animal easier to tame, etc

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I am going to bump this thread hoping that some MindArk or Calypso official will post something in it or that someone else will come with an interesting comment