Additional fee for faster withdraw

Sulje

Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
584
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
Would it be realistic to put in a system in place for example if I want to withdraw peds faster instead of 5 months period, to pay a $100 or $200 fee to make it a week?

I don't see reason why it takes up to 5 months to withdraw, even security checks and everything, just doesn't makes sense it takes so long, unless they want people to change their minds and cancel withdraw in the waiting process :)
 

Deemer

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
755
If you can bring in and out of the game in one/two days, in about a month we will have pills and rare rings for the next 200 years.
I think I read somewhere a proposal in which to set monthly limits for smaller amounts to be faster... but it seems that the MA did not like it.

Two months is too much, I agree. I don't want to play for $100k, so I prefer to play with my old deposits without depositing more in an old car.
 

unufain8

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Posts
977
Location
Somewhere between here and there.
Society
Dark Side
Avatar Name
-Saphire of Dark-
The process should be taking max 2-3 days. It takes 5 seconds to deposit right?
 

Art Jennifer

Stalker
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
2,294
Location
England
Avatar Name
Lady Jennifer Art
It's like a bank though.

In a bank if everyone attempted to pull money out at the same time the system would crash (There isn't the $$ stored to do it).... Same here, yet it is more temperamental. If we all pull our PED out in 1 week the system would crash (MA don't have enough available cash).
 

unufain8

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Posts
977
Location
Somewhere between here and there.
Society
Dark Side
Avatar Name
-Saphire of Dark-
It's like a bank though.

In a bank if everyone attempted to pull money out at the same time the system would crash (There isn't the $$ stored to do it).... Same here, yet it is more temperamental. If we all pull our PED out in 1 week the system would crash (MA don't have enough available cash).
If im not mistaken, they need to cover all the tt in game, not really sure about this.
 

Westy

Stalker
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Posts
1,912
Location
Australia
Society
Antipodean Army
Avatar Name
Buster Westy Westmoreland
If im not mistaken, they need to cover all the tt in game, not really sure about this.
If you read the annual report they hold 33% of player debt in funds to return right now.
 

Orion

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Posts
912
Location
Germany
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
Eleria 'Orion' Starwind
If im not mistaken, they need to cover all the tt in game, not really sure about this.

When you carefully read the EULA, you will notice this...

Entropia Universe - eula.xml

7. Explicit consent to no right of withdrawal

By completing the registration of an Account and downloading the Entropia Universe Client You acknowledged that there is no right of withdrawal pursuant to the Swedish Distance and Off-Premises Contracts Act (SFS 2005:59).

Selling your soul to the devil is irreversible...
 
Last edited:

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,708
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
It's like a bank though.

In a bank if everyone attempted to pull money out at the same time the system would crash (There isn't the $$ stored to do it).... Same here, yet it is more temperamental. If we all pull our PED out in 1 week the system would crash (MA don't have enough available cash).

So yeh as mentioned, the financial reports record a certain liability for expected withdrawals and these are based on past experience. IIRC it was slightly up from usual in the previous year but I think deposits were up too or something like that. In other words MA budget only for what they predict people will withdraw, not what they in theory could withdraw, TT value of the account or otherwise.

It sounds scary I know but to try and throw a note of calm into the room, aside from a real threat of the company going under (and the financial report doesn't indicate any issues of this sort), then I'm not sure what would really cause any sort of "run on the bank" as it were. The other thing to remember is the minium withdraw amount which, even if such a scenario were to happen, would mean a lot of players couldn't withdraw anyhow, especially if they were unable to hawk their wares to other players as they leap overboard, reducing them to needing to TT their stuff - something that may not get them over the minimum amount.

Anyhow, that side topic out of the way. While I don't think it has ever been confirmed, it's long been speculated that the long delay on withdrawals has nothing to do with waiting for cash to be available, or even the time to check the transactions/history of the player's activity. The theory is that it's to do with avoiding a scenario where a player could make a credit card deposit, withdraw it, then raise a card use dispute with the credit card provider over the initial payment. i.e. MA might have to pay back (to the card provider) the money deposited, which has already exited the game via a player withdrawal.

There was a situation many years ago where someone started offering a service where players could move PED out of the game over to second life credits. I believe they were told that, should an issue with a deposit occur, if they'd helped move the money out of the game, they'd be liable to cover the bill. After that they only allowed cash to flow into, rather than out of Entropia (i.e Linden Dollars to PED but not PED to Linden Dollars). If you want to look it up, it was called Dreamland Stock Exchange and was an Anshe Chung project.

Anyhow, to round up, I suspect a payment to speed up deposit wouldn't help with the described scenario (Depo $1000, pay $100, remove $900, claim the deposit was fraudulent - still be up $900). So I doubt MA would go for a speed up payment, if indeed this really is the reason why withdraws take so long [as far as I know it's never been more than speculation].

Still, it could simply be that "it isn't in their interests to allow fast withdrawals" and that noone with any law/official clout has ever put the screws into them to do it. This would at least explain why people still have to wait ages for a withdraw even if they've not deposited for years [I'm assuming such scenarios still take ages - I have a feeling I heard of at least one that did].

Hope that helps. It was a nice idea but alas feels like an undesirable (from MA's perspective) sticking plaster to solve a problem that really should just have been fixed properly (semi instant withdrawals) many years ago.

Wistrel
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
16,003
Location
FOMA SHOP # 22
Society
Silly Underground Family
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
wasn't there talk of a banking license and a real world bank card you can use at an atm at one point in time?
 

Thark

Prowler
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Posts
1,275
Location
Berlin
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Shawn Thark Columbo
I always thought its some money laundering thingy? But I dunno how that could be cleared by just waiting some time period? But also, I dunno how money laundering works, all I know about it is from movies lol

Maybe they just have their money-withdraw-book-keeper-guy come into the office once every 6 weeks and he has to click thru all the withdrawals xD
 

Sulje

Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
584
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
This is the reason for the long wait, and also the reason why they have no incentive to change it.
Yeah but doesn't makes sense, I'd rather sell my peds under the table to someone for 10% discount then wait 3 months, why MindArk wouldn't use the opportunity to tax me for 10-20% for speedy withdraw...(disclaimer: i never did this, but there's lots of ppl doing it afaik, it's "public" secret)

Also when new players find out there's 3 months wait for the withdraw, they suspect the game is a scam and they are kinda afraid to invest anything more then $10.

If you can bring in and out of the game in one/two days, in about a month we will have pills and rare rings for the next 200 years.
I think I read somewhere a proposal in which to set monthly limits for smaller amounts to be faster... but it seems that the MA did not like it.

Two months is too much, I agree. I don't want to play for $100k, so I prefer to play with my old deposits without depositing more in an old car.
It will just boost the economy, there is a loot pool for rings and pills as well, as there is for everything else in this game.
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,640
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
it's a combination of things.

1) AML safeguards
2) prevents rapid "cash back" exploitation with strongbox keys
3) safety for users whose accounts are compromised and they may not log in for 2-3+ months
4) more money in the game encourages more cycling which is more revenue for MA - people would withdraw after one bad day in some cases
5) prevents a bank run where a global event occurs or even something in game where there's a rapid influx of withdrawal requests and MA is unable to support ped liabilities in game.

imo 2 months is too long, but one month is too short. it's a tough balance.
 

Sulje

Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
584
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
When you carefully read the EULA, you will notice this...



Selling your soul to the devil is irreversible...
Well there are other Swedish laws that also protects the customers, which is none of my concern, as I am not investor in 2.0 weapons or so called "shares" and "deeds" which you get no paper that you own them, that's the issue of people who invested 200-300k USD, and it will all explode first time one of those serious rich people gets screwed over. In past there were only a couple rich people lurking around, now you have a lot of them, so I am not really worried about them not willing to withdraw me my money, because that would be an atomic bomb for the company that has only 30-40 employees.

Also it would be nice that CEO or someone from PR comes out once in a while and talk to the community to stop spreading this garbage themes. I believe those rules are made for cheaters and exploiters to prevent them from taking the money out, and should stay that way.

Topic here is just speeding up the process, I don't see why they wouldn't take up on the opportunity to make more money. They would literally make enough money to finance hiring of additional two people to work on this. Also not to mention illegal deposits/withdrawals solution.
 

atomicstorm

Slayer
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
7,759
Location
Blockchain
Avatar Name
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDolla
You are just talking in the wind. If you have no idea why they won't do this, then look up AML requirements.

It is literally all of what rocket said except he also left out chargeback protection/risk.

This is just another thread debating a topic that is unchangeable. They would need to relocate and go full crypto to avoid all the problems above.
 

Sulje

Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
584
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
You are just talking in the wind. If you have no idea why they won't do this, then look up AML requirements.

It is literally all of what rocket said except he also left out chargeback protection/risk.

This is just another thread debating a topic that is unchangeable. They would need to relocate and go full crypto to avoid all the problems above.
Firms must comply with the Bank Secrecy Act and its implementing regulations ("AML rules"). The purpose of the AML rules is to help detect and report suspicious activity including the predicate offenses to money laundering and terrorist financing, such as securities fraud and market manipulation.

Just going to leave this here since when you google for AML it shows results of some cancer diagnosis or something.

I spent last 30 minutes searching and reading about AML regulations, it says nowhere that bank withdrawal should be held for 3 months. So what MindArk needs is to hire more people on withdrawal processing, charge some extra if you want to be the priority, which would also prevent suspicious activities as I mentioned above.

What you just said has no logic, you came here just to insult with no real solutions proposed, crypto is a good way to kill the company.
 

Deemer

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
755
I don't think his goal is to offend you. He just says that there are many similar topics, but the MA has not changed anything. At least that's how I read it, so I don't think he says anything against your proposal.

It's as if the MA's target group are inactive large depositories and not interested in others... it's weird. And does this type of animal exist at all...

What are the time withdrawals from online casinos, does anyone know? The both things are the same?
 

atomicstorm

Slayer
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
7,759
Location
Blockchain
Avatar Name
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDolla
Just going to leave this here since when you google for AML it shows results of some cancer diagnosis or something.

I spent last 30 minutes searching and reading about AML regulations, it says nowhere that bank withdrawal should be held for 3 months. So what MindArk needs is to hire more people on withdrawal processing, charge some extra if you want to be the priority, which would also prevent suspicious activities as I mentioned above.

What you just said has no logic, you came here just to insult with no real solutions proposed, crypto is a good way to kill the company.

I did propose a solution. You just happen to not like it. Instead, you just flail about like you do on every other thread.

Crypto wouldn't kill the company (and your assertion is incredibly ignorant of all the thousands of companies that exist as crypto-only - such as Rollbet and Stake for example) - it would actually be a boon and inject a ridiculous amount of money into the game. They just cannot do it in Sweden. They would have to move to Malta or some other less restrictive country. AML requirements is to prevent money laundering. D3's attempt at an RCE is specifically why Mindark takes 3 months to vet where the money comes from. D3's RCE was destroyed by chargebacks (which have a 60-90 day grace period), money laundering (Entropia would be and IS a great way to launder money even with the restrictions), and lack of balancing. If you want to kill the game, open mindark to this liability.

This game exists because of this delay.
 

atomicstorm

Slayer
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
7,759
Location
Blockchain
Avatar Name
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDolla
I don't think his goal is to offend you. He just says that there are many similar topics, but the MA has not changed anything. At least that's how I read it, so I don't think he says anything against your proposal.

It's as if the MA's target group are inactive large depositories and not interested in others... it's weird. And does this type of animal exist at all...

What are the time withdrawals from online casinos, does anyone know? The both things are the same?
They are not the same because you more often times than not cannot deposit with a credit card - the main risk - to an online casino. For when you can, casinos can take a heavier hit and carry the risk. Most credit cards will never allow you to use it on any registered casino OR will register it as a cash advance - the burden for chargebacks would be a bit more difficult. For regular casinos, you would have to use an ATM to withdrawal from a card vs. use it at a teller.
 

Sulje

Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
584
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
I did propose a solution. You just happen to not like it. Instead, you just flail about like you do on every other thread.

Crypto wouldn't kill the company (and your assertion is incredibly ignorant of all the thousands of companies that exist as crypto-only - such as Rollbet and Stake for example) - it would actually be a boon and inject a ridiculous amount of money into the game. They just cannot do it in Sweden. They would have to move to Malta or some other less restrictive country. AML requirements is to prevent money laundering. D3's attempt at an RCE is specifically why Mindark takes 3 months to vet where the money comes from. D3's RCE was destroyed by chargebacks (which have a 60-90 day grace period), money laundering (Entropia would be and IS a great way to launder money even with the restrictions), and lack of balancing. If you want to kill the game, open mindark to this liability.

This game exists because of this delay.
There is no point of arguing with crypto passive-aggressive fanboys. I have made my point very clear, and not going to repeat it again.
 

Vadio

Alpha
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Posts
533
Location
Space
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Jhan Delarea Freitas
EVEN I hate crpyto , its most simple way partner with any excharge... to deposit in and out all fees are apply and dedcuted from you... done

Even so whole fee be more cheap after all mindark take 1000 ped / 100 usd for that
 

LangeTobias

Elite
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Posts
4,060
Location
Germany
Society
The Unit
Avatar Name
Edgewise
Reading these replies and arguments regarding how/why MA "should" reduce withdrawl times are scary.


How can you not understand that MA is a company and not your friend? :) you having immediate access to the funds in the company does not sound like a sound idea of a company.


I'm glad the withdraw times are as long as they are.


Hell, imagine a bunch of people withdrawing and all those funds are out of the game within 2-3 days.


Rip game.
 

unufain8

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Posts
977
Location
Somewhere between here and there.
Society
Dark Side
Avatar Name
-Saphire of Dark-
Those crypto fans should be payed in NFT's. Here's your 50k ped withdrawal. We thank you for your withdrawal.

531430987acb212b2a906ed545b324a4cd93494db16055e443339a9df7f8e36b391b4061.jpg
 

Msturlese

Old Alpha
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Posts
764
Location
italy
Society
Dirty Dingos
Avatar Name
Marco Killy Stur
look balance account policies 30% of last 6 month ped depot are in reserve.
it is deliberately inefficient and taxed.
tax in tax out... you deposit 100 and withdraw 87%.
that is the first layer of profit
then an average 2% on ped voolume so for a 1.2m ped per year cycle it is another 2400 USD on average joe game cost
it is all published.
i think it is most due of the REALLY LOW playerbase
with a EPIC game store success and UE5 inflow and 10x playerbase withdraw could be instant and tax reduced to 1% or zero.
it is alla bout how many ped i can take off playerbase ped card to feed 42 employers
a company invoicing 7.500.000 USD is a garage business for gaming industry so cost are high on playerbase
 
Top