AUD's First Case of Zero Payout

[AxeMurderer]

What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

That you suck at math

 

[Divinity]

First 2-3 weeks payout was decent cause it was a new land area so there is lot of activity.

Now the payout is low compared to others investments, for what I see it's just as it was planned to be considered the price Arkadia team is selling AU for (10.000.000,00 PED), that is way too high imho.

There should have been half of the number of deeds at that price to be an attractive investment, and now that many deeds sold and that price can't be changed it's clear to everyone the Ark team overvalued their own product.

In EU from years time to time there are investment opportunity offered by developers, some worth to buy (FOMA, CLD, LAs), some not (Banks, AUD...)

And to those who believe price of AUD is justified or will ever rise , please buy mine for 49 each

What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.

I hope you meant that in humor

 

[RickEngland]

What the entire populace of EU fails to see here is:

** $1,000,000 USD = 5% share LA revenue split across all the 200,000 deed holders.
** Which means Arkadia owns 95% of those revenues - without holding a single deed.

This values the Arkadia PERCEIVED value of that LA to be:
If $1m = 5%, therefore 100% would be worth....?

That's right, the 100% value of that LA is $20,000,000 USD! Or 200,000,000 PEDs!
Which means, Arkadia is holding a 95% share (with ZERO investment) valued at $19,000,000.

Just ask any business/legal person what is wrong with this picture.

Awwww that is so cute that post. Hey don't worry Shard we all screw up now and again, it's called sleep deprivation.

95% loot for the hunter
5% taxed revenue for AUD.

Do you really want my view?

I think there are too many deeds, after much thought I decided to stay clear. I do love the idea though of daily payout and deeds at 50 ped.

MA loves deed holders though, means you wont leave, or certainly have more staying power than a non-deed holder and in addition you pay them for building their asset. I neither care or want to know the deal between MA and Ark on share of sales of these deeds. But knowing MA they took a slice of the pie for ever 50 ped invested.

We cant all be investors though, someone's got to pay to play.

Rick

 

[Neil Stockton]

I neither care or want to know the deal between MA and Ark on share of sales of these deeds. But knowing MA they took a slice of the pie for ever 50 ped invested.

They do indeed. They take 50% of the decay of all hunting and mining activity there.

 

[RickEngland]

They do indeed. They take 50% of the decay of all hunting and mining activity there.

So we have to pay MA, the Land Owner and the deed owners. You see this is why my depos don't last....lol

Off to bed laughing.

Rick

 

[Neil Stockton]

So we have to pay MA, the Land Owner and the deed owners.

No, 50% of the decay goes to MA, 50% of the decay goes to the PPs and 5% of the loot goes to deed owners.

 

[Mega]

Daily payout on a Land Area on a 2nd most populated Planet failed to pay on one single day?

My opinion?

Relax, still go by weekly or monthly payout.

UK dividend payouts are 6 monthly after all....

 

[sawachika]

...

Indeed...stuff happens. And the zero payout just serves as a reminder not to look at things through a kaleidoscope, in my opinion. It might still take a good while before AUDs "may" payout a stable 2.5 pec or more per day.

Panic? Hell no. The decision of buying into anything were made with full awareness of what's the worst and best outcomes to expect.

So long as people know what they're getting into...and make informed decisions...then I guess the thread would have served its purpose.

 

[giuly_adm]

First zero payout?

AUD owners will have soon to make it a habit

 

[billairboy]

The level of payout from the AUD is no surprise at all, I sad before they started to sell them that it would be far lower in ROI compared to CLD in the short run. If the AUDs going to show the same level of ROI as the CLDs, Arkadia needs to increase the playerbase a lot. (if we compares the payout with the original deeds price 1000ped/50 ped). Not many players want to hunt and mine in a land area with a 5 % tax in the long run.

 

[Shard-Angel]

I hope you meant that in humor

Shh.... Don't spoil the fun!

 

[RobBuona]

Buying AUDs at +40!

 

[sawachika]

Buying AUDs at +40!

Erm....might I inquire the intent of your posting? Cause it does seem a bit like trolling to me...

If your not planning on adding anything useful to the thread, it would be preferable that you stay silent. At the very least.

And honestly, if your so upbeat about the AUDs, then why buy them only at +40? Might as well put up an offer of taking them at +49. At least then, your offering a fair deal of acquiring them at the original pricing (minus the already paid out peds.)

Else, it just looks to me that your getting yourself "quite the deal" considering that at +40, you'll be reducing your risks until payback by at least 2 years off.

Not that it matters to me anyway... (Its not me that your sponging off.)

 

[RobBuona]

a post filled with a lot of jumping to conclusions

Because I know people are going to overreact steeply. But I know the PEDs (well, PECs in this case) are going to keep coming in, and that is what is important. To beat yourself up over a day here and there where there is no payment in this sort of payment model is a little silly when you could not possibly know the reason. Not only that, but you do not know what future payments will be. If there is no payment for three of four days in a row, okay, I can understand the concern.

I'm not saying one should not value their own investments or anything of the sort. I just think sometimes people need to try to understand the complexity of the situation and it's not nearly as simple as "PEC or no PEC."

And by the way, I usually don't post in these topics, because the people who freak out aren't going to change. But how is my expressing my level headed-ness worse than people posting about how they "know" AUDs are good, bad, etc.? I'd appreciate if you would not tell me I'm not allowed to post, because I can do as I please, to be blunt about it.

 

[sawachika]

Because I know people are going to overreact steeply. But I know the PEDs (well, PECs in this case) are going to keep coming in, and that is what is important. To beat yourself up over a day here and there where there is no payment in this sort of payment model is a little silly when you could not possibly know the reason. Not only that, but you do not know what future payments will be. If there is no payment for three of four days in a row, okay, I can understand the concern.

I'm not saying one should not value their own investments or anything of the sort. I just think sometimes people need to try to understand the complexity of the situation and it's not nearly as simple as "PEC or no PEC."

And by the way, I usually don't post in these topics, because the people who freak out aren't going to change. But how is my expressing my level headed-ness worse than people posting about how they "know" AUDs are good, bad, etc.? I'd appreciate if you would not tell me I'm not allowed to post, because I can do as I please, to be blunt about it.

I guess your right. I am jumping to conclusions here. I apologize for that.

But frankly, I think this post you've made is WAY better than the prior one you did.

And on topic, I think your right again. Just a day of no payment doesn't necessitate a hoo-ha about anything. But it does validate some of the points others have made about AUDs too you know.

If you do track the AUD payments ever since it came to be, the payouts were pretty decent right at the beginning and then started to die down thereafter. And now, I think no one even cares a hoot about it, judging by the lack of updates over here in this thread's supposed "tracker".

http://arkadiaforum.com/showthread.php?10210-Arkadian-Underground-Deed-(AUD)-Payout-History

And as for the trend....its currently hovering about 0.013 peds per day? Which would mean that it would take 3846 days for it to pay itself out. In other words...10 years.

A lot of things can happen in 1 year, let alone 10 years. And so there's really a lot to consider before getting into "anything" with regards to "EU".

People really could use some of your level-headedness, I believe. They would then complain less if things were to take a turn for the worse.

 

[Spawn]

With current payouts, people will not buy more AUDs. Or people buy the deeds at a lower price which are already on the market. This means Ark makes no money because people do not buy from the broker. And Arkadia wants all the deeds to be sold.
So there will be events in the underground to raise the payouts with the goal to persuade people to buy into the deeds.

 

[RobBuona]

I guess your right. I am jumping to conclusions here. I apologize for that.

But frankly, I think this post you've made is WAY better than the prior one you did.

And on topic, I think your right again. Just a day of no payment doesn't necessitate a hoo-ha about anything. But it does validate some of the points others have made about AUDs too you know.

If you do track the AUD payments ever since it came to be, the payouts were pretty decent right at the beginning and then started to die down thereafter. And now, I think no one even cares a hoot about it, judging by the lack of updates over here in this thread's supposed "tracker".

http://arkadiaforum.com/showthread.php?10210-Arkadian-Underground-Deed-(AUD)-Payout-History

And as for the trend....its currently hovering about 0.013 peds per day? Which would mean that it would take 3846 days for it to pay itself out. In other words...10 years.

A lot of things can happen in 1 year, let alone 10 years. And so there's really a lot to consider before getting into "anything" with regards to "EU".

People really could use some of your level-headedness, I believe. They would then complain less if things were to take a turn for the worse.

I'm not sure where you live as we've never really interacted and you don't have that information published on the site here, but an interesting article was just published yesterday. US treasury bonds, considered one of the safest investments here in the US (and in the world, actually), are currently showing one of their highest 10-year yields at a measly 2.5%. Even at 0.013 PEDs per day, we're looking at a 9.5% annual ROI - far higher than 2.5%. So, considering the extremely small investment per deed compared to CLDs, even the current picture is far from grim in my opinion. 10 years is a long time, yes - but 50 PEDs is PECs in the grand scheme of things. Plus, EU, like real life, is about the long term, not about what's happening right now.

 

[sawachika]

I'm not sure where you live as we've never really interacted and you don't have that information published on the site here, but an interesting article was just published yesterday. US treasury bonds, considered one of the safest investments here in the US (and in the world, actually), are currently showing one of their highest 10-year yields at a measly 2.5%. Even at 0.013 PEDs per day, we're looking at a 9.5% annual ROI - far higher than 2.5%. So, considering the extremely small investment per deed compared to CLDs, even the current picture is far from grim in my opinion. 10 years is a long time, yes - but 50 PEDs is PECs in the grand scheme of things. Plus, EU, like real life, is about the long term, not about what's happening right now.

Point taken.

Btw, can I ask you something? Since I'm terribly ill-advised about bonds and stuff like these and your taking it in that direction.

So I'm just wondering...

If the payout of these irl bonds are already so measly as you've stated, then how can MA afford to sustain such a high payout? Wouldn't it crash and burn eventually, in due time? Since I don't think they have much to show in their annual reports, about a positive cashflow...yet. So unless I'm wrong about it, aren't they still leaking "PEDs" (jokingly taken to mean money)?

And since you are comparing it to real life investment thingys, I would extrapolate that the payouts that these deeds give are to be withdrawn. But if in the case that its gonna be staying put in the game, then why would we be comparing it to stuff like that?

Nonetheless, I do agree that 50 PEDs is paltry and of insignificant consequences were we to lose it in a game. 500 PEDs...5000 PEDs...perhaps even 50000 PEDs? Who knows? Depends on the person's wallet I guess...

And so my point is...drawing it to real life investments is okay imo, but there has got to be a line drawn somewhere so that people won't feel the pain if things were to go wrong...

Treat the game like a game, but watch your PED card like a hawk.

 

[robotech master]

With current payouts, people will not buy more AUDs. Or people buy the deeds at a lower price which are already on the market. This means Ark makes no money because people do not buy from the broker. And Arkadia wants all the deeds to be sold.
So there will be events in the underground to raise the payouts with the goal to persuade people to buy into the deeds.

Not completely true. While not an expert for the AH I would wager heavily that ark gets a cut of AH fees. Since the AUDs are now being heavily traded they are picking up some profits from that. Maybe not on say cally AH fees but much like CLDs when traded, AUDs have a very high MU/AH fee which basically pays for the deed for 1-2 weeks per sale.

I'm not sure where you live as we've never really interacted and you don't have that information published on the site here, but an interesting article was just published yesterday. US treasury bonds, considered one of the safest investments here in the US (and in the world, actually), are currently showing one of their highest 10-year yields at a measly 2.5%. Even at 0.013 PEDs per day, we're looking at a 9.5% annual ROI - far higher than 2.5%. So, considering the extremely small investment per deed compared to CLDs, even the current picture is far from grim in my opinion. 10 years is a long time, yes - but 50 PEDs is PECs in the grand scheme of things. Plus, EU, like real life, is about the long term, not about what's happening right now.

Few things with this. Most investments from an investment standpoint pay out based on "safety", you talk about one of the "safest" investments in US Treasury bonds. Because its so safe it has a very low ROI... however the ROI is in fact not 2.5% its more like -0.5% to 0.5% currently and has been that way for many years. The reason for that is one should include inflation. That being said of course their are far safer investments such as gold or silver, they have effectively zero return but they also have zero counter-party risk. AKA your gold bar can never go bankrupt, can never rot, etc, etc, etc.

One must remember that AUDs are an investment way down a claim of companies. First MA, then ark, then as an LA on ark. All this adds risk... alot of risk. Overall I would say that in entropia you really should be shooting for a 3 year or less return to be considered a good investment, 5 years would be ok, 6 years bad, 7+ horrible.

Now of course those number flux based on how you see you investment, pure money return, some money return but also to support the game/planet, etc.

For someone who wants to support say ark then a 5 year return is good for them and 6 years ok. That being said ark really needs to get it together and at least get the ROI up to where in pays off in 7 years or less.

The reasons for this are many but include heavily the fact that ark loyalists that buy these deeds are defacto hurting ark. One of arks biggest problems is the fact that its economy is smaller then cally. The huge ark loyalist population is what keeps it afloat. However with the AUDs you have this huge sucking sound coming from the ark economy as loyalists buy AUDs hand over fist but don't cycle ped through the ark economy.

This feed back causes newer players and more free roaming players to leave, thus making matter much worse overall. Ark needs to get high ROI on these deeds not only to make them sell to more then ark loyalists, but so ark loyalist push that ROI back into the economy.

At current turn around rates ark loyalists will not return cycle any of the AUD costs into the Ark economy for close to 10 years. This will be a major drag on ark for at least the next 4-6 years. I wouldn't expect to see any major improvement in ROI until that time frame unless the ark devs get into the AU and really beef it up.

 

[billairboy]

At current turn around rates ark loyalists will not return cycle any of the AUD costs into the Ark economy for close to 10 years. This will be a major drag on ark for at least the next 4-6 years. I wouldn't expect to see any major improvement in ROI until that time frame unless the ark devs get into the AU and really beef it up.

I have bit hard to follow you argument why a good ROI would make the deed holder recycling more peds to the economy than if it they have a lower. It's probably more likely they would withdraw the money from the game if they got back a higher payment from the deeds. With a lower payment it more probably they need the money in game.

 

[robotech master]

I have bit hard to follow you argument why a good ROI would make the deed holder recycling more peds to the economy than if it they have a lower. It's probably more likely they would withdraw the money from the game if they got back a higher payment from the deeds. With a lower payment it more probably they need the money in game.

Fairly simple... ark loyalist bought the majority of deeds/keep buying deeds. Ark loyalists will spend the ped back into the ark economy... not sure how this is a confusing argument.

No one who looking to withdraw within the next 4-5 years is going to want anything to due with AUDs until they get well into the 25%+ ROI real quick.

 

[billairboy]

I have bit hard to follow you argument why a good ROI would make the deed holder recycling more peds to the economy than if it they have a lower. It's probably more likely they would withdraw the money from the game if they got back a higher payment from the deeds. With a lower payment it more probably they need the money in game.

But you argument was that the loyalist was bad holders because they did not feed back the peds to the economy when the return was low, and therefore the ROI must increase so other would buy them instead and also when the ROI got higher the loyalist would start spending the return. I just think it was a bit strange logic.

But I can agree that you are right on the "sucking part", as long as the AUD are not sold to player they are an extra drain from the economy. It's better that they sell out all the AUD so the tax goes to players instead of going to planet Arkadia. Anyway, the important thing for the economy is to increase the player base on the planet, not necessary that they play and spend money in the underground.

 

[robotech master]

But you argument was that the loyalist was bad holders because they did not feed back the peds to the economy when the return was low, and therefore the ROI must increase so other would buy them instead and also when the ROI got higher the loyalist would start spending the return. I just think it was a bit strange logic.

Once again I'm not sure your either reading it right or really taking the time to understand what was said. More so when you agree with that strange logic in the very next section of your post.

But I can agree that you are right on the "sucking part", as long as the AUD are not sold to player they are an extra drain from the economy. It's better that they sell out all the AUD so the tax goes to players instead of going to planet Arkadia. Anyway, the important thing for the economy is to increase the player base on the planet, not necessary that they play and spend money in the underground.