Suggestion: Crafting 3.0

Alukat123

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since so many hunting issues have been addressed, it's time crafting issues get adressed as well.

Non-SIB BPs: the long term tt-return on those appears to be 90%, change it to be 95% TT-return, just like SIB ones are.

rework the entire crafting chances to make it less volatile and less dependant on multipliers, even in shorter runs:
5% chance for fail (or just remove the no-looters, like you did with hunting)
57% chance for 90% return near success.
37% chance for 100% return success.
1% chance for multiplied success.

This way the chances are very high to get 88+% TT-return even on smaller runs and when multipliers are not happening. This generally increased tt-return will allow crafters to do more crafting, as they have more peds left they can spend on materials.

apart from the volatility & tt-returns crafting is quite fine as it is.
 

mastermesh

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allow LA owners to install crafting machines that will increase the COS incrementally if crafters click on that LA when they craft... and then allow taxes on those LAs for crafting... would change the way things are done for sure... maybe even allow each LA owner a unique stackable for the mobs only on their LA to loot, and a mined item that is unique to that LA... when you craft stuff with that particular item on that LA it gets you some sort of bonus or whatever...

redo the entire system... delete all mobs from everywhere and re-add them only in LAs as unique to each LA... some non-unique stuff may still exist, but be careful about what is unique vs non-unique.
 

Alukat123

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allow LA owners to install crafting machines that will increase the COS incrementally if crafters click on that LA when they craft... and then allow taxes on those LAs for crafting... would change the way things are done for sure... maybe even allow each LA owner a unique stackable for the mobs only on their LA to loot, and a mined item that is unique to that LA... when you craft stuff with that particular item on that LA it gets you some sort of bonus or whatever...
that's not necessary, when there's a lot more crafting done in general, then LA benefit from more hunting/mining.
 

Joat

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There are for sure some changes that needs to be done around crafting, but before we
ask of improvements, we have to see if this will come first I guess:

MindArk is working on restructuring and streamlining the item situation in Entropia Universe. This involves many changes to the crafting system and loot distribution, with the goal of reducing the number of components, resources and similar items in the universe, to ensure that the majority of items have a place within the economy.

The balance between looted and crafted items, along with items from other sources such as events, competitions, strongboxes, etc., will be improved to strike a better balance.

New blueprints will use existing components and resources as much as possible to sustain a thriving and interdependent economy between crafting, mining and hunting.
 

Alukat123

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There are for sure some changes that needs to be done around crafting, but before we
ask of improvements, we have to see if this will come first I guess:

MindArk is working on restructuring and streamlining the item situation in Entropia Universe. This involves many changes to the crafting system and loot distribution, with the goal of reducing the number of components, resources and similar items in the universe, to ensure that the majority of items have a place within the economy.

The balance between looted and crafted items, along with items from other sources such as events, competitions, strongboxes, etc., will be improved to strike a better balance.

New blueprints will use existing components and resources as much as possible to sustain a thriving and interdependent economy between crafting, mining and hunting.
That won't do much good if the crafters lack the peds to buy materials.
My main issue, as a crafter, is still lacks of peds, due to all the bad return runs and payback globals/hofs not happening, and not a lack of stuff to craft, i got plenty of stuff i could start crafting, if i had the peds (so if returns were better or payback globals/hofs would happen).
 

Joat

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That won't do much good if the crafters lack the peds to buy materials.
My main issue, as a crafter, is still lacks of peds, due to all the bad return runs and payback globals/hofs not happening, and not stuff to craft, i got plenty of stuff i could start crafting, if i had the peds.
With that all you craft will have a MU. In theory. If it will be successful is another thing. ;)
How many are in your position, any idea of that? Are there more dedicated crafters that
have even worse outcome, or do they have a better outcome?
 

Alukat123

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With that all you craft will have a MU. In theory. If it will be successful is another thing. ;)
usually the MU goes into compensating the up 27% cut MA takes, that's with maxed out BPs... feels more like crafting to fill MAs bankaccount than for my progress in the game...
 

Joat

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usually the MU goes into compensating the up 27% cut MA takes, that's with maxed out BPs... feels more like crafting to fill MAs bankaccount than for my progress in the game...
Feels like MA want some very few dedicated crafters around.
I guess one have to find what sells and that to a certain kind of customer, to make it possible
to skill and develop avatar and service, but question if that is still possible.
 

Alukat123

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Feels like MA want some very few dedicated crafters around.
I guess one have to find what sells and that to a certain kind of customer, to make it possible
to skill and develop avatar and service, but question if that is still possible.
before this whole 2.0 happened been constantly developing my char and increasing the diversity. In the first year i've been crafting 5 different things, at the end of year 3 that had already increased to about 200 different ones, like i've said there's no lack of stuff to craft, and on top of that i could even do some mining/hunting.
Ever since crafting got worse during the whole 2.0, it has shrinked from 200 different ones to sub 30. If the global/hof dry phase last another year or two, then i may be back to where i started... :(

And as it goes for other crafters, i've talked to friends and they're quite frustrated by all the bad runs as well. So, it's not just me.
 
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Joat

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before this whole 2.0 happened been constantly developing my char and increasing the diversity. In the first year i've been crafting 5 different things, at the end of year 3 that had already increased to about 200 different ones, like i've said there's no lack of stuff to craft, and on top of that i could even do some mining/hunting.
Ever since crafting got worse during the whole 2.0, it has shrinked from 200 different ones to sub 30. If the global/hof dry phase last another year or two, then i may be back to where i started... :(

And as it goes for other crafters, i've talked to friends and they're quite frustrated by all the bad runs as well. So, it's not just me.
Yeah I guessed it was in general.
I also craft, but mostly for other reasons than to sell and develop a business.
I mainly do it for skills, or as a tool to balance out bad hunting loot.
Even with my relatively low skills I can craft decent L-BPs, and I guess there is one of all
reasons why dedicated crafters suffer: we are in no need to get help to craft certain items.
 

Alukat123

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I guess there is one of all
reasons why dedicated crafters suffer: we are in no need to get help to craft certain items.
hmm? I announced a few days in advance what material i'm going to need so miners/hunters could gather everything. I was heavily relying on hunters/miners to gather all the materials, because the day would not have enough hours to gather all the mats myself and still have time for actual crafting. That was during the peak prior to 2.0.

quite sad MA ruined it with their changes.
 
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Joat

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hmm? I announced a few days in advance what material i'm going to need so miners/hunters could gather everything. I was heavily relying on hunters/miners to gather all the materials, because the day would not have enough hours to gather all the mats myself and still have time for actual crafting. That was during the peak prior to 2.0.
I mine and hunt my own resources and material, and then craft that decent L-BP,
if system didn't allow me to craft it I had to go to a better skilled crafter, which I don't
have to today. If I had to drop resources, material and BP to a dedicated crafter that
player would earn more.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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since so many hunting issues have been addressed, it's time crafting issues get adressed as well.

Non-SIB BPs: the long term tt-return on those appears to be 90%, change it to be 95% TT-return, just like SIB ones are.

rework the entire crafting chances to make it less volatile and less dependant on multipliers, even in shorter runs:
5% chance for fail (or just remove the no-looters, like you did with hunting)
57% chance for 90% return near success.
37% chance for 100% return success.
1% chance for multiplied success.

This way the chances are very high to get 88+% TT-return even on smaller runs and when multipliers are not happening. This generally increased tt-return will allow crafters to do more crafting, as they have more peds left they can spend on materials.

apart from the volatility & tt-returns crafting is quite fine as it is.
I'm not a crafting pro by any means, it's what I do the least ingame.
But it seems to me that the % chances you're proposing as a revolution are already there...
For example 5% chance failed is exactly what you actually get with a maxed BP.
Except for the 1% multiple which is maybe lower nowadays. (and I'm not even sure about that, it looks to me that you get at least 1 multi every 100 cliks)

But crafting is not hunting or mining.
They changed it, but it's the same for everyone. :yup:
If they do what you're suggesting, it would be so easy and so cheap to progress in crafting that everyone would do it.
The market would be saturated with different items that it would become impossible to sell other than below their crafting cost.
And then you'd still be complaining that you're crafting to sell at a loss... :rolleyes:

I'm afraid you're pissing in the wind.. :)
 
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Alukat123

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I'm not a crafting pro by any means, it's what I do the least ingame.
But it seems to me that the % chances you're proposing as a revolution are already there...
For example 5% chance failed is exactly what you actually get with a maxed BP.
Except for the 1% multiple which is maybe lower nowadays. (and I'm not even sure about that, it looks to me that you get at least 1 multi every 100 cliks)
it's not there. Currently the near successes are divided in ~25% , ~50% and ~90%. The 25% and 50% ones are pretty common and those drag down the return a lot.
Also the successes are >100%.

Currently i sometimes go several hundred clicks without a multiplier.. just to get a times 2-20 then, which is way too small ofc.

If they do what you're suggesting, it would be so easy and so cheap to progress in crafting that everyone would do it.
nothing wrong with making it easier and cheaper again if it boosts the economy.
It already was cheaper and easier before 2.0, yet not everyone was doing it, so the time before 2.0 already had proven your theory wrong.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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nothing wrong with making it easier and cheaper again if it boosts the economy.
It already was cheaper and easier before 2.0, yet not everyone was doing it, so the time before 2.0 already had proven your theory wrong.
That's absolutely not true, crafting before 2.0 was riskier than it is today.
The fact that you were more successful before doesn't prove anything.
They made for the craft the equivalent of what they did for the hunt.

So today, thanks to the demands of people like you, the risks of losing a lot, quickly, have been reduced, but also the risks of winning have been proportionally reduced, and since MA has to take their share anyway, well the result is that we lose always constantly (TT wise). :thumbup:

it's not there. Currently the near successes are divided in ~25% , ~50% and ~90%. The 25% and 50% ones are pretty common and those drag down the return a lot.
Also the successes are >100%.

Currently i sometimes go several hundred clicks without a multiplier.. just to get a times 2-20 then, which is way too small ofc.
Maybe you should review the concept of "variance"... :confused:
Having a 5% chance of Failed doesn't mean you're going to have a failed every 20 clicks.

Anyway even this part I think doesn't work like that anymore because of stupid people asking...
I think even the variance is fake now.
And that it's not the "Law of large numbers" anymore that manages the returns since 2.0.

Actually what you're asking is that MA take less money from you.
Good luck with that.. :tapfinger
 

Alukat123

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That's absolutely not true, crafting before 2.0 was riskier than it is today.
if you take the initial release of EU, that may hold true, but that's not the time i'm talking about... i talk about the time directly before loot 2.0 ofc.
 

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I am with alukat. Crafting returns are extremely bad. For those that do not crafting a lot (10-30k cycle a day), you have nothing to speak about here.

It's quite bad. Pretty common craft runs are between 85-90% with maxed bps. Significantly worse with low QR, which takes time. The multis are not there.

All the while, we have gamble crafters with ATHs and big digits pulling out all the residue and gems because they can (which are capped resources). It puts FT crafters in a pinch.
 

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I am with alukat. Crafting returns are extremely bad. For those that do not crafting a lot (10-30k cycle a day), you have nothing to speak about here.
Really, so one should click 10 hours a day to be entitled to have an opinion about this?
 

GxB

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Really, so one should click 10 hours a day to be entitled to have an opinion about this?
well you arent gonna ask the butcher who once read an article about viruses in national geographic about his opinion on the corona crisis. you gonna ask the guy who works with viruses all day everyday instead. same applies here.
 

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well you arent gonna ask the butcher who once read an article about viruses in national geographic about his opinion on the corona crisis. you gonna ask the guy who works with viruses all day everyday instead. same applies here.
On the other hand he who works with viruses will not do exact same thing day in and day out,
he'll try several different things when he can't get the outcome he wanted. :silly2:

If now some can profit from "gamble crafting" why don't everyone go that way, and then use
the profit to craft ordinary things? ;)

As I mentioned to Alukat123, I guess we need to see what that big update about crafting
will be contain before we ask about big changes. (If it now comes that is).
 

Alukat123

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On the other hand he who works with viruses will not do exact same thing day in and day out,
he'll try several different things when he can't get the outcome he wanted. :silly2:
And what does he if he tried everything and still didn't get the outcome he wanted?
 

Joat

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And what does he if he tried everything and still didn't get the outcome he wanted?
Quit and start growing potatoes. ;)

Looking for a result that isn't there then no point doing the task, but question is
does that mean it isn't there or is it due to the one looking for it?
Probablility that it isn't there is due to the amount of players with same outcome,
and as you mentioned, a lot of players have same issue, but it's enough that one
single player can find it and then that is proved it is possible.
Is there a single player who are successful, or do all 100% of dedicated crafters
have same issue?
 

Alukat123

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Quit and start growing potatoes. ;)

Looking for a result that isn't there then no point doing the task, but question is
does that mean it isn't there or is it due to the one looking for it?
Probablility that it isn't there is due to the amount of players with same outcome,
and as you mentioned, a lot of players have same issue, but it's enough that one
single player can find it and then that is proved it is possible.
Is there a single player who are successful, or do all 100% of dedicated crafters
have same issue?
what's more likely, a lot of crafters not being able to figure it out after years and trillions of crafts or that MA may have fucked up along the way?

nevertheless, they must do changes to crafting and adress the bad-return-no-multiplier issue.
I mean, are times 100, 250, 500 even still in the game? i haven't seen a single one of those in 2 years.
 

Joat

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what's more likely, a lot of crafters not being able to figure it out after years and trillions of crafts or that MA may have fucked up along the way?
One of the reasons why I mentioned earlier that it feels like MA don't want that many dedicated
crafters around. ;) Create a system that few will manage to understand with new parameters
in (even though basics are still the same) and they will try to figure it out, since they are used
to craft, but after a while they will back down and try other things instead.
 

Alukat123

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One of the reasons why I mentioned earlier that it feels like MA don't want that many dedicated
crafters around. ;) Create a system that few will manage to understand with new parameters
in (even though basics are still the same) and they will try to figure it out, since they are used
to craft, but after a while they will back down and try other things instead.
or maybe, there's just a few lucky players where the broken system doesn't play out as badly as it does for others (randomness/variance). Just leave your ego out of the topic and then think again.

a few players won the lottery, does that mean they know better how to play the lottery than all those who didn't win or have they just been lucky? with lottery i mean the rl one.
 

Joat

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or maybe, there's just a few lucky players where the broken system doesn't play out as badly as it does for others (randomness/variance). Just leave your ego out of the topic and then think again.

a few players won the lottery, does that mean they know better how to play the lottery than all those who didn't win or have they just been lucky? with lottery i mean the rl one.
Yes, you are right there, you should leave your ego out and then think again.
Just because you can't figure it out does that mean it suddenly are randomness involved, or
that there are coded luck? No.
This system is quite "easy" actually, since it uses a system that match values, this has zero
to do with luck. Timing yes, luck no.
If you aren't able to create right value that the target requires, you will never max out this
matching.

EDIT: Forgot. This doesn't mean the system is perfect, there are still a lot to fix, but as I mentioned, if one can create right value, everyone can (from a system p.o.v.).
 
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Alukat123

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Yes, you are right there, you should leave your ego out and then think again.
Just because you can't figure it out does that mean it suddenly are randomness involved, or
that there are coded luck? No.
This system is quite "easy" actually, since it uses a system that match values, this has zero
to do with luck. Timing yes, luck no.
If you aren't able to create right value that the target requires, you will never max out this
matching.

EDIT: Forgot. This doesn't mean the system is perfect, there are still a lot to fix, but as I mentioned, if one can create right value, everyone can (from a system p.o.v.).
assuming there's something to figure out in first place and then claiming players would be too stupid to figure it out. That's you writing with your ego again.

Please, share the times for good crafting return with us, since you seem to know them, so we can test your theory whether it's true or false.

Anyway, crafting needs to change, the way it currently is, is just crap.
 
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Joat

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assuming there's something to figure out in first place and then claiming players would be too stupid to figure it out. That's you writing with your ego again.

Please, share the times for good crafting return with us, since you seem to know them, so we can test your theory whether it's true or false.

Anyway, crafting needs to change, the way it currently is, is just crap.
You still don't get it, it has zero to do with what I think, its purely from a system p.o.v.
Things don't just happens when you use the system, there is a code that perform certain
things and it is this you need to do reversed engineering on.
It has nothing to do with someone being stupid or not, since we can get stuck in our thinking
and therefor never try new approaches.

As I also mentioned earlier, I use crafting for skills and sometimes as a tool to balance
bad hunting loot out. I've done the same with mining.

If I gonna suggest something then its the same as I did in hunting: start all over again,
look for every part that excist ingame and see if you can approach what you do in a new way.
This do work for me when I go for eco, which I don't atm, since my main prio now are to
finish off as many missions that have attribute token as reward as I can. As soon as they are closed
I gonna go back to try and fine tune this even more.
 

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well you arent gonna ask the butcher who once read an article about viruses in national geographic about his opinion on the corona crisis. you gonna ask the guy who works with viruses all day everyday instead. same applies here.
I refer to the extreme 10k-30k daily crafts AtomicStorm mentioned to be "allowed" to have an opinion about the matter. I do agree that someone with close to zero crafting experience in the current system won't contribute much. But why exclude small, but regular crafters?
 

Alukat123

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You still don't get it, it has zero to do with what I think, its purely from a system p.o.v.
ofc it is what you think. The pov is the pov of what you think the system is.
 
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