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Crazy price volatility ruins it for all - I've had enough

I can see ppl crying for no MU and too much MU on pcf lately. So everything is fine? It usualy is when both sides are complaining 😅
Also pyrite do spike almost every event, MA play with drop rate as well. It Is adapt, survive, overcome scenario I guess?
 
I need $ said:
I can see ppl crying for no MU and too much MU on pcf lately. So everything is fine? It usualy is when both sides are complaining 😅
Also pyrite do spike almost every event, MA play with drop rate as well. It Is adapt, survive, overcome scenario I guess?
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Agree I don't see a problem here. The fact that we have a RCE market that responds to supply and demand like a real-world economy is a feature, not a bug.
 
All valild concerns. Let me make a projection: nothing will be done, nothing will be addressed in any shape or form. As long as MA is making money, why fixed what is (not) broken...
 
jwestonmoss said:
When I landed there and got a notification that the entire planet was taxed, after I did one round of the 2p ammo mission, I got back in my ship and flew away
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I think you spent more on the fuel and space thruster than the 2p of Uni Ammo received.
 
Angela Draniie Cloud said:
I think you spent more on the fuel and space thruster than the 2p of Uni Ammo received.
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i was already on ark so i didn't go far. 20pec worth of thruster decay and maybe 50 pec fuel tops. still.....

i'm sure for someone who knows their way around there are opportunities to be found. i just don't have the time to go looking for them
 
Markup will drive miners to go out and find more of the materials you need. The market will correct itself and drive prices down. Right now people are prepping for Mayhem and we just had Halloween Mayhem and a mini-mayhem so that has occupied people and drained resources. I know I haven't been mining much nor playing much lately but even when I do I still save all my tiering resources. I can't be the only one doing that. The market in EU is a game unto itself.
 
Sirhc said:
Markup will drive miners to go out and find more of the materials you need. The market will correct itself and drive prices down. Right now people are prepping for Mayhem and we just had Halloween Mayhem and a mini-mayhem so that has occupied people and drained resources. I know I haven't been mining much nor playing much lately but even when I do I still save all my tiering resources. I can't be the only one doing that. The market in EU is a game unto itself.
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Problem is no matter how many miners there are, MA only allows so much of a certain resource to he mined. Whether its one person at 100 ped or 10 people at 10 ped, there is no ability for any of us to affect the supply at all.
 
There is plenty of those resources, experienced miners are gathering larger stack before selling, also if it's tier materials, i'd rather sell to friend who need to tier up their weapon then some random reseller, so is most of miners.

Go mine or make some miner friends and stop crying on forum. There is also option to pay someone to mine for you, there are plenty of offers in services section of this forum, literally anything you did but crying on forum would be better. I hope nobody from MA listens to such dumb suggestions and false observations.
 
To take a slightly different track, I actually don’t mine as much during mayhem. Part of it is trying something different in joining in a little.

The larger reason though is that residue spikes probably in part because EP crafters do mayhem instead of supplying residue. Once I’ve burned through my cheaper amps, I’m better off just waiting for residue to come down again rather than mine more during mayhem. That’s my bottleneck at least.

D-class should technically be able to use cheaper robot residue. I can use animal oil for finders, but not for amps. Due to how limited metal residue gets, I would argue that residue options should be opened up. That or introduce more options that use robot or animal oil residue.
 
Sulje said:
There is plenty of those resources, experienced miners are gathering larger stack before selling, also if it's tier materials, i'd rather sell to friend who need to tier up their weapon then some random reseller, so is most of miners.

Go mine or make some miner friends and stop crying on forum. There is also option to pay someone to mine for you, there are plenty of offers in services section of this forum, literally anything you did but crying on forum would be better. I hope nobody from MA listens to such dumb suggestions and false observations.
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So I come here complaining about the price fluctuations of Crafting materials and all you are interested in is to throw the "reseller" slur back in my face in an effort to somehow delegitimize my presence and participation in Entropia...

As always Sulje, thanks for your very "constructive" and "helpful" input :rolleyes:
 
forgo said:
I bought 900 ped of pyrite ant outputs at the high markups yesterday.
After crafting I used 600 ped of res to get an additional 80 ped of markup
And had 35 enhancers of 1-10. Which sells for 370 ish and gave me 10 of each for my chip.
370+600+80 =1050 Cost 900.

I am not seeing the issue.

Dianthus, I stopped mining it on my land since before mayhem, where its a near 100% hit rate.
For whatever reason it seems people cant find Dianthus.

Igni is also very easy to target if you know where to go.

Its a dynamic market.
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I don't care about Pyrite forgo, I was too busy last summer buying up all the ELM guns instead of Pyrite so I can only blame myself for that.

No, if you read the OP to the end, the one that has me furious right now is Ignisium.

Also, this thread is about volatility of prices,not about high mu; you won't see me complaining about Redulite mu because it has been reliably at 500% for a while now and I can work with that. What I can't work with is prices spiking and falling the way they do onmats required for tiering like Antimagnetic and Ignisium.
 
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Hijacker27 said:
Definitely what rocket said. When people are buying thousands of ped of tt of rarer mats all at once to tier their shit, its puts a strain on the low supply forced on the game by MA. There should be no hard hourly caps on resourceslike there is currently.
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Aeolus said:
I'll not talk about the whole topic as a whole, because it is very voluminous. But as for some EnMatters, in particular the Antimagnetic Oil, these jumps are associated with the Tiering of the top or close to top weapons by large hunters. They can't wait. They need tons and quickly. When their interests intersect with craft interests, this turns into 400%.
---
Tier 7: Light Liquid
Tier 8: Henren Cube
Tier 9: Binary Energy
Tier 10: Antimagnetic Oil
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Sub-Zero said:
This. They seriously need to fking remove all caps on these and change the wave system so that instead of universal wide on a timer, its player based. Also most importantly increase TIER components drop rate and pyrite/ignisum. It will increase the cycle rate of players..
Stronger L weapons will become cheaper so it'll be good for casuals too. You'll sell for less MU on crafted shit but will sell at higher volume.
For instance they could add tier components as drop rate for every mayhem cat 01 = tier 1 comp and so on, have it set at a fixed % (increased with better dpp). This would allow specific targeting of tier components that you'll need to tier your weapon.

If people are more easily able to cycle their peds it means more revenue for them so I really can't comprehend how they can design a system as stupid as this...

#fixcaps&waves2023
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Yes, I didn't fully realize when I first wrote the OP how much of this was because of tiering, and I didn't realize that the current mining system was compounding the volatility by reducing supply in the ground.

But having said that, I think MA needs to take this issue very seriously because they are increasing the divide between L and UL users way too far here. Pyrite affects everybody but Ignisium will affect mostly the L user, if it stays above 200%, I wouldn't be surprised to see high level ArMatrix spike by 20%, from about 140% per gun to say 155% or 160%. (edit: talking about LR-80 to LR-105)

And the biggest issue I think is that for a professional hunter, it makes sense to make the investment in tiering, there are huge prizes at stake and getting whatever edge you can to secure one can result in a huge windfall. Rare Mayhem Tokens have huge value in the tens of thousands of PED. There are no prizes for crafters, and there is just no way we can absorb these fluctuations in prices.
 
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Legends said:
So I come here complaining about the price fluctuations of Crafting materials and all you are interested in is to throw the "reseller" slur back in my face in an effort to somehow delegitimize my presence and participation in Entropia...

As always Sulje, thanks for your very "constructive" and "helpful" input :rolleyes:
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Price of weapons armors everything in this game is highly violatile, if you touch any of that based on player request on forum you are opening Pandora box. My input is constructive and helpful, and I never called you reseller. It's not community problem that you get outbid, and can't find resources you need for your personal profit.
 
Legends said:
Yes, I didn't fully realize when I first wrote the OP how much of this was because of tiering, and I didn't realize that the current mining system was compounding the volatility by reducing supply in the ground.

But having said that, I think MA needs to take this issue very seriously because they are increasing the divide between L and UL users way too far here. Pyrite affects everybody but Ignisium will affect mostly the L user, if it stays above 200%, I wouldn't be surprised to see high level ArMatrix spike by 20%, from about 140% per gun to say 155% or 160%.

And the biggest issue I think is that for a professional hunter, it makes sense to make the investment in tiering, there are huge prizes at stake and getting whatever edge you can to secure one can result in a huge windfall. Rare Mayhem Tokens have huge value in the tens of thousands of PED. There are no prizes for crafters, and there is just no way we can absorb these fluctuations in prices.
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Also whoever pay 140% for armatrix guns need serious help now that we are thee.
 
at least u had a good run and made some peds unlike 99% of us who have been paying stupid high MU for tiering and never seeing that ped returned
 
infamousH4 said:
at least u had a good run and made some peds unlike 99% of us who have been paying stupid high MU for tiering and never seeing that ped returned
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As far as I know, you are pretty much in the same boat as me; don't you have a shop at PA for ArMatrix and Enhancers?

And let me ask you this: Are you buying Ignisium at the current prices? Or did you have a nice pile of it already that will last until the end of Merry Mayhem? (same question for Pyrite)
 
Legends said:
As far as I know, you are pretty much in the same boat as me; don't you have a shop at PA for ArMatrix and Enhancers?

And let me ask you this: Are you buying Ignisium at the current prices? Or did you have a nice pile of it already that will last until the end of Merry Mayhem? (same question for Pyrite)
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nope im h4 you're thinking of hammer mchammer
 
Aeolus said:
I'll not talk about the whole topic as a whole, because it is very voluminous. But as for some EnMatters, in particular the Antimagnetic Oil, these jumps are associated with the Tiering of the top or close to top weapons by large hunters. They can't wait. They need tons and quickly. When their interests intersect with craft interests, this turns into 400%.
---
Tier 7: Light Liquid
Tier 8: Henren Cube
Tier 9: Binary Energy
Tier 10: Antimagnetic Oil
Click to expand...
This leads to more and more high end hunters just keeping stocks of said ressources and not selling them for ped anymore, for a number of materials i have done ressources trades/loans where you get the mats or give someone the mats for them to then collect and return them to you at a later point. While this avoids some of the mu spikes it does however lead to even faster hits of ressource caps as more people keep stocks on materials of which they know are bound to swing by large %.
 
Legends said:
But having said that, I think MA needs to take this issue very seriously because they are increasing the divide between L and UL users way too far here. Pyrite affects everybody but Ignisium will affect mostly the L user, if it stays above 200%, I wouldn't be surprised to see high level ArMatrix spike by 20%, from about 140% per gun to say 155% or 160%.
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Sulje said:
There is plenty of those resources, experienced miners are gathering larger stack before selling, also if it's tier materials, i'd rather sell to friend who need to tier up their weapon then some random reseller, so is most of miners.
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Going to emphasize these two quotes to make a point about something that you probably won't like reading.

With the exception of pyrite; the materials you listed are available more than most people realize. The problem is that many people in entropia are just waiting for the wiki page to be updated or for someone to blab about where to find them (and MU in general I suppose). Sharing is not caring in this case and frankly I (and other miners) would never say how or where I am building up t7-10 tier mats - it would be markup cannibalization for the sake of clout :rolleyes:.

If you want lumis, ignisium, etc. you just have to get out there and explore the universe (not just caly btw) to find it. Take my word on it or not but the restriction to finding them isn't as strict as some people say (or are misinformed into believing). With all that said the amount coming into the game could easily be increased by 25-50% at this point because honestly I don't know why people would put in the effort with pyrite in its current state.

Pyrite, however, is a hill I will die on and believe it should not be contingent on supply via waves - just based on cycle. People that say it's fine have me convinced they are ignorant of the big picture and how it affects the game, wave abusers, have a financial ulterior motive, or some combo of the above (saying this as someone good-to-go through TWEN btw).
 
The competitors you speak of who've stockpiled resources do not really have a massive economic advantage over you; it only appears so due to how you (and perhaps they) are doing the accounting. What actually happened is that their resource portfolio value increased with the market, but this is a sunk cost (sunk profit?) from the perspective of their deciding what to craft. The decision they face now is whether to sell their resources at the current market price, or craft with them. The decision you face now is whether to buy the same resources at the same current market price to craft with, or stay out of the market. It's the same decision up to some minor differences in transaction costs, and thus the advantage they have over you is pretty minor, regardless of how much profit their resource portfolio has already earned on the market move. You would face the same sell versus craft trade-off if you choose to stockpile.

I see a lot of good questions sprinkled throughout the post, such as, "how much [material] should a person stock," "how long will it last," "should I wait to buy more and just not craft those things for now?" I see a lot of good conditional thinking, such as, "if it ever comes back down around 180%, I'll probably buy it again." I do indeed see your predicament; what I fail to see is the problem. This type of analysis is, in my judgment, what crafting is all about. Clicking the Construct button on the machine and listening to the churning sound day after day isn't necessarily the engaging part. The fun, and the profit, is in figuring out what, if anything, is good to craft at a particular point in time based on market conditions, the potential of finding some opportunity others haven't found or arbitraged away yet. You're not ever going to be able to predict market moves with perfect accuracy; no one can. It is true that those who understand market cycles will have some probabilistic advantage over those who do not, but this is learning opportunity, not a hard barrier to entry. The reason profit opportunities in crafting exist instead of being immediately arbitraged away is because adapting to the market is difficult. I think those complexities should be celebrated rather than attacked.

One approach that can help crafters remain adaptive in changing market conditions is contingency planning. Before you stockpile Resource X to make Crafted Item A, have an answer to what you will do if X increases in value but A remains constant (will you sell X, craft B with X instead, etc.), if X remains constant but A decreases in value, etc. The great thing about Entropia being both a capital good and a consumption good is that you can mix your entertainment objectives and business objectives in this type of contingency planning. Maybe under certain conditions there is nothing sellable you can use X to craft, but you have been meaning to click a certain blueprint to work toward a new skill unlock, and you are willing to use X for that purpose if the market doesn't go your way. The possibilities are endless. I think it's always better to plan for whatever might happen than to try to predict what will happen and put all your eggs into that basket.
 
Katie Chalmers said:
I tied to run large bankrolls to combat volatility, but I gave up too for getting burned by market swings too much and holding onto stock.

Now I just work on a day basis. What price is my item selling at today and what do my mats cost today. If it’s profitable to click I do so, if it’s not I wait for another day. I purchase only enough mats I need to click my desired quantity of items and I sell those items immediately. At the end of each crafting cycle I am out of mats and my exposure is nulified, what price swings happen in the future do not affect me.

This strategy probably doesn’t help somebody trying to keep constant stocks in a shop, but I feel it’s the only way to consistently profit crafting with minimal risk.

A fix for the price volatility could be to adjust material spawn rates based on a monthly markup/throughput on auction. Not a perfect solution but it would help.
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Just in Time manufacturing. Imagine they did that in the real world. Oh wait.....Toyota?

Imagine volatility like this in the real world. Oh wait....Chip shortage..... GPU prices......Storm in QLD, bananas cost 500% more
 
Westy said:
Just in Time manufacturing. Imagine they did that in the real world. Oh wait.....Toyota?

Imagine volatility like this in the real world. Oh wait....Chip shortage..... GPU prices......Storm in QLD, bananas cost 500% more
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This is very different. Toyota has contracts with suppliers and if the suppliers don't respect them they will get sued.

Any "agreement" made between a miner and a crafter in EU will be something like "I agree to sell my resources to you at x% below weekly mu" or something like that, if mu goes up 80% or 100% overnight, that's not the miner's problem, it's the crafter's.

Toyota knows exactly how much they are going to pay for the things they need to build their cars, the prices have all been agreed to and approved prior to signing the contract. It has to be done this way because competition for cars is very fierce and they need to be able to sell at competitive prices in order to be successful. Toyota would never sign a contract with a supplier that guarantees they will pay whatver the market is for that period, that's suicide. There are measures in place, it's part of a company's cost control strategy.

MindArk has promised to introduce contracts in UE5, I'm looking forward to seeing what that looks like, it could be a really good thing for the game and mu stability.
 
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So to summarise so far.


Price spikes have always happened pre events, mind essence tended to spike during migration for example.
I have in past known people to pre-buy before the shortages hit to make ped by squeezing supply before the rise hits to maximise. Thats the game big ped cards play, while most try to play within that and make a few ped if they realised the cycles.
It is what it is :)
 
Legends said:
This is very different. Toyota has contracts with suppliers and if the suppliers don't respect them they will get sued.

Any "agreement" made between a miner and a crafter in EU will be something like "I agree to sell my resources to you at x% below weekly mu" or something like that, if mu goes up 80% or 100% overnight, that's not the miner's problem, it's the crafter's.

Toyota knows exactly how much they are going to pay for the things they need to build their cars, the prices have all been agreed to and approved prior to signing the contract. It has to be done this way because competition for cars is very fierce and they need to be able to sell at competitive prices in order to be successful. Toyota would never sign a contract with a supplier that guarantees they will pay whatver the market is for that period, that's suicide. There are measures in place, it's part of a company's cost control strategy.

MindArk has promised to introduce contracts in UE5, I'm looking forward to seeing what that looks like, it could be a really good thing for the game and mu stability.
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Not really, all they can do is not buy if they don't like the new price.
 
Legends said:
MindArk has promised to introduce contracts in UE5, I'm looking forward to seeing what that looks like, it could be a really good thing for the game and mu stability.
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That's an interesting tidbit. Any idea how that would be structured, and enforced?
 
I'd imagine the contracts to be personal, with some kind of length of validity. It could be renting out stuff with auto-return after the period or buying a product from the specific player within a certain timeframe. There might be a bonus option for fully meeting the contract and supplying 100% of the volume in the set period, or contracts open to all soc mates for any to fill etc. etc.
It was one of the things I also noticed as planned - sounds interesting - and may tie in with 'factory' production facilities as well...
 
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