Drops Until 90%

[Rocket192]

There has been a good amount of discussion regarding mining returns over the last few years. The change to "Claim Size V" system and then back to "nrf x50 then swirlies" system. Either system supposedly producing an average TT return of 90% in the "long term". Long term has not been defined and differs for everyone because EU is "dynamic". On player could hit 90% on first 5 bombs and call that 90%. Some can mine for a year and claim to not reach near 90%.

The purpose of this poll is to simply ask the community what they feel is the appropriate amount of drops (planetside), in the typical case, should be required to reach 90%... ignoring the outliers such as the individuals claiming sub 70% in long term, indicating errors of technique.

Please vote/post comments!

 

[dr3w]

Will not vote, just give pure numbers and two facts:

Fact1: In middle of the summer of prev year new CEO in MA was elected.
Fact2: Since then I started to Do Something Wrong:

652871PED turnover which is something near 163217 drops for me with return 81.63%.

Of course, of course - those two facts just pure coincidence, we all know it's all about math and statistics, and I just put my hands deep into my ass in that day, and still keeping them in that nice warm place.

 

[zeusrocktropian]

Will not vote, just give pure numbers and two facts:

Fact1: In middle of the summer of prev year new CEO in MA was elected.
Fact2: Since then I started to Do Something Wrong:

652871PED turnover which is something near 163217 drops for me with return 81.63%.

Of course, of course - those two facts just pure coincidence, we all know it's all about math and statistics, and I just put my hands deep into my ass in that day, and still keeping them in that nice warm place.

Now, can we get mining fixed?

 

[Rocket192]

Will not vote, just give pure numbers and two facts:

Fact1: In middle of the summer of prev year new CEO in MA was elected.
Fact2: Since then I started to Do Something Wrong:

652871PED turnover which is something near 163217 drops for me with return 81.63%.

Of course, of course - those two facts just pure coincidence, we all know it's all about math and statistics, and I just put my hands deep into my ass in that day, and still keeping them in that nice warm place.

Based on your data there are a few conclusions that may be true...

1) 90% theory is a lie for miners
2) You have a phat ATH waiting for you
3) Your are a very unlucky SOB
4) You're doing something wrong - which I doubt given your history/experience in EU.

Regardless numbers like these are not an example of MA making the game more friendly to newer players. Why play to get ~82% of your money back? Unless MA hates mining.

 

[Ironheart]

(None of these comments are directed at Damsel)

Seems that almost all mining related posts on here these days (last couple of years) are based on a really bizarre idea ... that somehow miners are all entitled to 90% return, just turn up with some probes, run in a line, dont overlap drops, and hey presto 90%!

What complete and utter busllshit!

Every single person that ever stated in this forum that no matter what you do in mining you should expect 90% return WAS LYING TO YOU!

If you haven't worked that out yet ... then you don't really deserve to.

Like everything else in EU, there are ways to control your losses, and ways to let them get out of hand, but for fucks sake stop crying every single day that you're not making back 90% TT.

WE KNOW
WE DONT CARE
FEW OF US EVER MAKE 90% BACK WHATEVER WE DO

I have mined on and off since late 2004, so I have seen many changes, there was NEVER a time when you were guaranteed 90% return.

<breathe>
Ah, feel better now ...

 

[Rocket192]

(None of these comments are directed at Damsel)

Seems that almost all mining related posts on here these days (last couple of years) are based on a really bizarre idea ... that somehow miners are all entitled to 90% return, just turn up with some probes, run in a line, dont overlap drops, and hey presto 90%!

What complete and utter busllshit!

Every single person that ever stated in this forum that no matter what you do in mining you should expect 90% return WAS LYING TO YOU!

If you haven't worked that out yet ... then you don't really deserve to.

Like everything else in EU, there are ways to control your losses, and ways to let them get out of hand, but for fucks sake stop crying every single day that you're not making back 90% TT.

WE KNOW
WE DONT CARE
FEW OF US EVER MAKE 90% BACK WHATEVER WE DO

I have mined on and off since late 2004, so I have seen many changes, there was NEVER a time when you were guaranteed 90% return.

<breathe>
Ah, feel better now ...

I don't think anyone is expecting a "guarantee" that they will reach 90%.. as has been explained and seen before there will always be exceptions in a dynamic environment. This poll is under the assumption that a theoretical 90% TT return exists for all 3 main professions in EU, mining included. If this is not the case then I would be alarmed if one profession received higher TT returns than another. And again, some people play EU for a specific activity, such as mining. Where is the motivation to deposit and support a game where a person couldn't receive the same payback for his/her investments in their desired activity over another?

The purpose of this is not to complain that mining returns are bad (even though they currently are for many), but rather to examine the length of time/# of drops it would typically take in the long run to reach 90%. As a plethora of logs and data kept and publicly displayed by many avatars shows... a 90% tt return for all 3 main professions seems to be an accurate assumption until data proves otherwise.

Also... in last year's "state of the universe" address it was stated that tt returns have been increased for all three professions across the board. Unless this was a lie/has been changed then I'm going to take this as support for the 90% theory (because why would MA want to decrease already bad returns?).

 

[zeusrocktropian]

(None of these comments are directed at Damsel)

Seems that almost all mining related posts on here these days (last couple of years) are based on a really bizarre idea ... that somehow miners are all entitled to 90% return, just turn up with some probes, run in a line, dont overlap drops, and hey presto 90%!

What complete and utter busllshit!

Every single person that ever stated in this forum that no matter what you do in mining you should expect 90% return WAS LYING TO YOU!

If you haven't worked that out yet ... then you don't really deserve to.

Like everything else in EU, there are ways to control your losses, and ways to let them get out of hand, but for fucks sake stop crying every single day that you're not making back 90% TT.

WE KNOW
WE DONT CARE
FEW OF US EVER MAKE 90% BACK WHATEVER WE DO

I have mined on and off since late 2004, so I have seen many changes, there was NEVER a time when you were guaranteed 90% return.

<breathe>
Ah, feel better now ...

The thing is there never was guaranteed 90% back to each player. The whole idea was that server returns 90% to all players but not each (in theory) - so, statistically speaking, the more you drop the closer you get to 90% no matter if you're higher or lower. Now looking at Eve's numbers it looks like it will never happen, which is statistically incorrect - that's why mining is broken.

About ATH's coming, there are many players which "should" get an ATH. Myself, I am "expecting" a ~25k ped hof, I doubt it will happen. So that leaves us to: most of the miners are unlucky and/or doing it wrong.

 

[Rocket192]

The thing is there never was guaranteed 90% back to each player. The whole idea was that server returns 90% to all players but not each (in theory) - so, statistically speaking, the more you drop the closer you get to 90% no matter if you're higher or lower. Now looking at Eve's numbers it looks like it will never happen, which is statistically incorrect - that's why mining is broken.

About ATH's coming, there are many players which "should" get an ATH. Myself, I am "expecting" a ~25k ped hof, I doubt it will happen. So that leaves us to: most of the miners are unlucky and/or doing it wrong.

If we're going to call it "broken mining".. then I've been experiencing this "broken mining" system since April of 2014. I've taken several large breaks from EU for that reason. Not saying that "claim size V" system was any better, but at least returns were stable, with correction hofs every week or so. That gave me something to look forward to.

 

[krazykat]

Over approx. 23,000 drops, my average return has been just under 90% tt. (the last few runs were rubbish or it'd be over 90%) and just over 120% with mu.

 

[Haruto Rat]

I don't know, I usually take a break when it falls to 95%.

 

[krazykat]

I don't know, I usually take a break when it falls to 95%.

Its been a bad week....

 

[whiteknut]

There has been a good amount of discussion regarding mining returns over the last few years. The change to "Claim Size V" system and then back to "nrf x50 then swirlies" system. Either system supposedly producing an average TT return of 90% in the "long term". Long term has not been defined and differs for everyone because EU is "dynamic". On player could hit 90% on first 5 bombs and call that 90%. Some can mine for a year and claim to not reach near 90%.

The purpose of this poll is to simply ask the community what they feel is the appropriate amount of drops (planetside), in the typical case, should be required to reach 90%... ignoring the outliers such as the individuals claiming sub 70% in long term, indicating errors of technique.

Please vote/post comments!

It doesnt work like this..
You can get 500% on first drop, or 20% return on first 10k bombs.. we never know as so far they are claiming there is no personal lootpool, so in theory the longer you play the closer you should get to 90%, but no single number to say.

1 000 000 drops will get you close enough i think, while 10 000 000 would get even closer..

 

[dr3w]

Also... in last year's "state of the universe" address it was stated that tt returns have been increased for all three professions across the board. Unless this was a lie/has been changed then I'm going to take this as support for the 90% theory (because why would MA want to decrease already bad returns?).

It was not lie. There was change in mining which was made it deadly boring and with very steady return.

Of course, all markups started to go down, as expected (at least by me), and they started to do some changes, which was lead to current system - steady boring fuckup (at least for me).

It's okay, I will get through it, adjust, adapt, and will die anyway as anyone - sooner or later.

What is NOT okay for me - that they changing system - and then claiming that they didn't do any shit. Which is a pure fucking lie. Noobs will not see, casual miners will not understand - but many miners like me see those changes very fast.

And on top of all that shit you see fucking shrapnel, nanocubes and other bullshit in red paint.

 

[Kazanori]

Mining has not changed one bit over the past 2 years that I've been doing it, and i can successfully maintain a 95-100% return rate if i go about it the correct way, now everyone has there own theories as to how it all works and that's fine, all i can say is so far I'm doing good and my method sure is working for me

Sarah Kazanori

 

[dr3w]

The thing is there never was guaranteed 90% back to each player. The whole idea was that server returns 90% to all players but not each (in theory) - so, statistically speaking, the more you drop the closer you get to 90% no matter if you're higher or lower. Now looking at Eve's numbers it looks like it will never happen, which is statistically incorrect - that's why mining is broken.

About ATH's coming, there are many players which "should" get an ATH. Myself, I am "expecting" a ~25k ped hof, I doubt it will happen. So that leaves us to: most of the miners are unlucky and/or doing it wrong.

In my case it's just some 60k hit, which is now... ooops, - rare! It's not like in "old good" system - weekly ATH.

 

[SKULL69]

i stopped mining due to the bad returns went back to hunting and there is >95% returns

mining with ul amp lvl 5 and over lvl 80 mining skills ores

2013 was great for me always tt back all mu was profit but 2014 was terrible

will come back to mining if i see an improvement with crafted amps this time

 

[Rocket192]

It was not lie. There was change in mining which was made it deadly boring and with very steady return.

Of course, all markups started to go down, as expected (at least by me), and they started to do some changes, which was lead to current system - steady boring fuckup (at least for me).

It's okay, I will get through it, adjust, adapt, and will die anyway as anyone - sooner or later.

What is NOT okay for me - that they changing system - and then claiming that they didn't do any shit. Which is a pure fucking lie. Noobs will not see, casual miners will not understand - but many miners like me see those changes very fast.

And on top of all that shit you see fucking shrapnel, nanocubes and other bullshit in red paint.

117% narcansium markup and 160+ pages of resource on caly auction i'm sure is another effect of the changes, and a pretty bad one at that. Or it's a problem with crafting, which means we're all doomed to hunting only eventually.

 

[Thark]

Hey,

I'm with dr3w on this one. Something is wrong.

I can't remember when it started. I stopped mining for a while when it became booooring, heard that changed and tried again. didn't drop any significant amount, just a few Ks but it was still boooooring and even worse returns. never had that before those changes, so either i'm imagining things or something is up.

I can't contribute anything to the finding of reasons since I don't like mining right now but I'd sure like to have fun mining again. please figure this out guys

Regards
Me

 

[Ironheart]

Or it's a problem with crafting, which means we're all doomed to hunting only eventually.

This ^^^

90% return is a myth, it is a zero sum game, with a very variable return depending on many factors including your own methods and those of others during whatever period you care to measure.

 

[Pandoras_box]

81% tt return after 8.2k drops, so far.

But who knows, maybe Im sitting over 100% tt return longterm, because before I started writing each run down - and before the break I had - I´ve had amazing 18 months.

 

[dar hammer dei]

Well over a million ped cycled(alot to some, tiny compared to others). 92.15% TT return. Am getting very good returns at the moment and its climbing again

 

[Ace Flyster]

Based on your data there are a few conclusions that may be true...

1) 90% theory is a lie for miners
2) You have a phat ATH waiting for you
3) Your are a very unlucky SOB
4) You're doing something wrong - which I doubt given your history/experience in EU.

Regardless numbers like these are not an example of MA making the game more friendly to newer players. Why play to get ~82% of your money back? Unless MA hates mining.

Or far more simply he double bombs and gets the expected tt return as a result

Rgds

Ace

 

[dr3w]

Or far more simply he double bombs and gets the expected tt return as a result

Rgds

Ace

Yes. Suddenly started celebrating election of new CEO by rebombing. Sometimes I even re-rebombing rebombed places.

Of course I do something wrong.

Of course it's just pure statistics and coincidences - that I can't barely SIMPLY HOF, Im not telling about four digit ubers which is lately for me is from "WHISKEY CHARLEY FOXTROT" category.

And it's very hard to remember one simple shit - I didn't changed my "style" for years.

 

[Ace Flyster]

Yes. Suddenly started celebrating election of new CEO by rebombing. Sometimes I even re-rebombing rebombed places.

Of course I do something wrong.

Of course it's just pure statistics and coincidences - that I can't barely SIMPLY HOF, Im not telling about four digit ubers which is lately for me is from "WHISKEY CHARLEY FOXTROT" category.

And it's very hard to remember one simple shit - I didn't changed my "style" for years.

Badly worded i admit, "i guess it is cause you rebomb".

Falkoa did stats on rebombing somewhere, i cannot remember results, maybe someone else remembers where it is?

Also when i use to rebomb i had similar tt results to you.

Rgds

Ace

 

[dr3w]

Badly worded i admit, "i guess it is cause you rebomb".

Falkoa did stats on rebombing somewhere, i cannot remember results, maybe someone else remembers where it is?

Also when i use to rebomb i had similar tt results to you.

Rgds

Ace

Nah, I rarely DID rebombs. I mean, in times before last mining modification. Since now rebombs in 99% cases are NRF, but "parent" claim you getting is very close to you, and LBML showing sometihing like 1%+ coverage, haha, very-very tempting rebomb moment, by pure "statistic" you can hit something, there still "virgin" spot.

No, if before I did something like one rebomb per 150-200 PED spent - now I not do them at all.

 

[Ace Flyster]

Nah, I rarely DID rebombs. I mean, in times before last mining modification. Since now rebombs in 99% cases are NRF, but "parent" claim you getting is very close to you, and LBML showing sometihing like 1%+ coverage, haha, very-very tempting rebomb moment, by pure "statistic" you can hit something, there still "virgin" spot.

No, if before I did something like one rebomb per 150-200 PED spent - now I not do them at all.

Ahh fair enough

In that case, i am guessing you are missing the big finds? With my log the big finds get me above 90% tt return on average.

And yes i am grasping at straws

Rgds

Ace

 

[ImUp2Mischief]

I didn't changed my "style" for years.

Have u been dropping constantly with your UL amp for years? never changing your cost per drop?
Change is often good in EU.


The last 2 times my returns reached 90% came between 3-5k drops, unamped on foma.

Since then I have done 9k drops unamped on caly, around 80% return.

I recently have taken a break from mining, the current system is so boring I lost interest.

 

[dr3w]

In that case, i am guessing you are missing the big finds? With my log the big finds get me above 90% tt return on average.

Exactly, it feels like Im "banned" from big hits. It was happened before, sure, and not only once. But current one is way more long time-wise.

And yes i am grasping at straws

Well, about straws - in "previous" times it was quite easy (and quite stupid ofc) to get "back" some TT - just step in the shit like crude or lyst, and you happily filled with that crap.

Now even this one for me is like "semi-rare", hehe.

 

[dr3w]

Have u been dropping constantly with your UL amp for years? never changing your cost per drop?
Change is often good in EU.

Ofc before UL was L ones, but times was different too. Like one global per amp or two planetside, some small hof in 10x amps.

Yep changed, and it really does help, but currently I have some masochistic test so I need to continue my selffuckup.

 

[Shee]

The purpose of this poll is to simply ask the community what they feel is the appropriate amount of drops (planetside), in the typical case, should be required to reach 90%... ignoring the outliers such as the individuals claiming sub 70% in long term, indicating errors of technique.

Please vote/post comments!

Not sure what to answer tbh... Imagine you`d know that you would get back to 90% tt return after 1k, 2k or whatever amount of drops. Wouldn`t that take the fun out of the whole thing? Isn`t the thrill of not knowing when a big hof will hit you part of the fun?