FYI: Enhancer consumption doesn't depend on base item

[sidxx]

I really hope you don't think I'm trying some cheap sarcasm here, but.... a weapon shooting 30 attacks/min is indeed shooting two times slower than a weapon shooting 60 attacks/min...

And by the way, my point is the cost of enhancer+mu, not number of shots. Because even if a dmg enhancer can shoot 100, 1.000, or 10.000 shots, it still doesn't pay for it's initial cost.
You benefit from it's boost while you use it, but along the way it makes you pay for everything it provides - the extra dmg. The only thing that is not payed in the end, is the tt+mu....unfortunately... But thankfully, it's the only one with this 'problem'. Rest of'em cover their own cost as they are used...leaving you with a bit of an extra eco before they brake.

attack speed matters in the consumption of enhancers over time.

compare 2 guns

1: attack speed 60/min, 50 dmg per shot ... 50 dps
2: attack speed 30/min, 100 dmg per shot... 50 dps

attacks to break 2 ehnancers for #1 is 2000 with 100,000 dmg done
attacks to break 2 enhancers for #2 is 2000 with 200,000 dmg done

dps is the same for both BUT enhancer consumptionfor #2 is half as much as #1 because is fires slower for the same dmg done. so gun #2 will have less enhacer cost for the same damage done making it more eco then the faster gun. this is really as simple as i can tell you. so please stop ignoring variables just because you dont understand.

 

[Maddy]

So tell me in simplest terms is it worth using at least Accuracy enhancers? Do they pay themselves? Or only worth if the weapon has high damage?
For example I have an Igni L1000 tier 4.4, with a104 amp 38.2 dps and 2.941 dpp, max damage 54. Would it be worth using accuracy enhancers on it? For the extra % crit, has anyone tested how much it increases (on a maxed sib weapon?).

My opinion is - yes.
Because of two reasons:
1) the enhancer itself brings no extra cost on the gun (decay or ammo burned), which means that...;
2) ...the number of critical shots 'eats' the tt+mu you pay to buy it.

So if you get the enhancer at 200% mu, it will be 80 pec/enhancer. If you use 4 enhancers on Igni L1000, that would be 4x80pec = 320 pec that needs to be 'used' by the extra critical hits. L1000 + a104 cost 12.759 pec/shot. So to make those 4 enhancers pay their own cost (320 pec), your gun need to fire 320/12.759 = 25.080 extra critical hits. So roughly 26 extra critical hits.
I say 'extra' because gun itself has a certain % of doing critical hits.... The 26 more will pay those 320 pec that is the price of enhancers+mu and this means that after those 26 crits, all you do while still using the enhancers that didn't brake, it's your eco... A 100% eco, as long as a critical hit means double dmg, which translates into 'a hit that you didn't pay for'...or should I say 'two for the price of one'.
If you want to calc this, get a full a104, buy 188 ped worth of ammo (that's the total amount of ammo to burn down an entire a104.... 990 ammo/shot x 1903 - number of uses on a104), hunt without enhancers, count the crits and then repeat it all over again, only this time with enhancers, count the crits too, and calc the difference.
Because the difference between number of crits without enhancers and number of crits with enhancers = number of crits that 'pay' for enhancers cost. So if this difference is bigger than 26 and you still have 1, 2 or maybe more enhancers still holding (thus providing you with extra chance of critical hit), that's your eco.

I shoot a cap10-smuggle almost t5 and I'm looking for a crafter for the last 36 hours to get 20-30 enhancers on each tier for the 4 tiers I have...and no one's around.

 

[Maddy]

attack speed matters in the consumption of enhancers over time.

compare 2 guns

1: attack speed 60/min, 50 dmg per shot ... 50 dps
2: attack speed 30/min, 100 dmg per shot... 50 dps

attacks to break 2 ehnancers for #1 is 2000 with 100,000 dmg done
attacks to break 2 enhancers for #2 is 2000 with 200,000 dmg done

dps is the same for both BUT enhancer consumptionfor #2 is half as much as #1 because is fires slower for the same dmg done. so gun #2 will have less enhacer cost for the same damage done making it more eco then the faster gun. this is really as simple as i can tell you. so please stop ignoring variables just because you dont understand.

Now I understand perfectly what you say and I don't ignore variables... I just said and still am saying, that no matter how fast or hard they brake, their cost is still a loss for the hunter. That's all... Even if it would last for 3, or 4.000 shots, their tt+mu is still accountable on the loss notes of the hunter, no matter what he does.

 

[Sub-Zero]

My opinion is - yes.
Because of two reasons:
1) the enhancer itself brings no extra cost on the gun (decay or ammo burned), which means that...;
2) ...the number of critical shots 'eats' the tt+mu you pay to buy it.

So if you get the enhancer at 200% mu, it will be 80 pec/enhancer. If you use 4 enhancers on Igni L1000, that would be 4x80pec = 320 pec that needs to be 'used' by the extra critical hits. L1000 + a104 cost 12.759 pec/shot. So to make those 4 enhancers pay their own cost (320 pec), your gun need to fire 320/12.759 = 25.080 extra critical hits. So roughly 26 extra critical hits.
I say 'extra' because gun itself has a certain % of doing critical hits.... The 26 more will pay those 320 pec that is the price of enhancers+mu and this means that after those 26 crits, all you do while still using the enhancers that didn't brake, it's your eco... A 100% eco, as long as a critical hit means double dmg, which translates into 'a hit that you didn't pay for'...or should I say 'two for the price of one'.
If you want to calc this, get a full a104, buy 188 ped worth of ammo (that's the total amount of ammo to burn down an entire a104.... 990 ammo/shot x 1903 - number of uses on a104), hunt without enhancers, count the crits and then repeat it all over again, only this time with enhancers, count the crits too, and calc the difference.
Because the difference between number of crits without enhancers and number of crits with enhancers = number of crits that 'pay' for enhancers cost. So if this difference is bigger than 26 and you still have 1, 2 or maybe more enhancers still holding (thus providing you with extra chance of critical hit), that's your eco.

I shoot a cap10-smuggle almost t5 and I'm looking for a crafter for the last 36 hours to get 20-30 enhancers on each tier for the 4 tiers I have...and no one's around.

Quite tempting to try this out. You also use crit enhancers?

 

[Maddy]

Quite tempting to try this out. You also use crit enhancers?

Yes. Only once used dmg enhancers. Noticed the fact that tt+mu is my loss and using accuracy ever since. I would use eco enchancers, but their price is outrageous... They also have 1 ped tt, which makes the % mu to be even bigger, due to big initial tt. Unlike accuracy, who has 0.4 ped tt...
Eco enhancers are better over time, while accuracy are a bit more risky on the eco part. Meaning that eco enhancers makes you do eco hunts like a car that runs on a constant 60 miles/hour, while accuracy makes you do eco hunts like a car that runs with 30 miles/hour, then 120 miles/hour and so on... You never know the outcome, because you never know if you do those extra critical hits until they pay for themselves, and then some more until they brake, so that you could be eco.... But most of the times, you do...

P.S.: Guide me to a crafter that can make 30 from each tier....please...

 

[aVaLON_52]

attack speed matters in the consumption of enhancers over time.

compare 2 guns

1: attack speed 60/min, 50 dmg per shot ... 50 dps
2: attack speed 30/min, 100 dmg per shot... 50 dps

attacks to break 2 ehnancers for #1 is 2000 with 100,000 dmg done
attacks to break 2 enhancers for #2 is 2000 with 200,000 dmg done

dps is the same for both BUT enhancer consumptionfor #2 is half as much as #1 because is fires slower for the same dmg done. so gun #2 will have less enhacer cost for the same damage done making it more eco then the faster gun. this is really as simple as i can tell you. so please stop ignoring variables just because you dont understand.

This game has loot algorithms and programming that is very complex. I don't believe MA would have enhancers be based solely on APM; that is imbalanced..

It favors guns with low APM. That wouldn't be logical, because if the community was well aware of this, it would cause enhancers to be consumed less and not used at all in high APM weapons. MA has those contingent liabilities; if this were imbalanced - less people would use enhancers overall; resulting in less funds to MA. Surely it's not imbalanced.

And if it is, what evidence exists that proves it is. 2000 rounds fired on similar DPS weapons?

Bjorn made that vague comment about it being connected to the magnitude of the damage.

Sounds like he's referring to DPS. If it is DPS, then there is no imbalance.

 

[Aio]

Now I understand perfectly what you say and I don't ignore variables... I just said and still am saying, that no matter how fast or hard they brake, their cost is still a loss for the hunter. That's all... Even if it would last for 3, or 4.000 shots, their tt+mu is still accountable on the loss notes of the hunter, no matter what he does.

This is true on base gun eco however whole game eco needs to be taken into account.

the dps gain of extra crits is not as much as the dps gain of dmg enhancers. Obviously dependant on playstyle, however, the MU loss on dmg enhancers may or may not be more than the cost of armour saved by killspeed increase.

I was more of a fan of accuracy enhancers when they first came out (did improve eco on p5a + atrox). Now I move towards dmg enhancers due to mob HP . regen) and damage being more of an issue.

 

[sidxx]

This game has loot algorithms and programming that is very complex. I don't believe MA would have enhancers be based solely on APM; that is imbalanced..

It favors guns with low APM. That wouldn't be logical, because if the community was well aware of this, it would cause enhancers to be consumed less and not used at all in high APM weapons. MA has those contingent liabilities; if this were imbalanced - less people would use enhancers overall; resulting in less funds to MA. Surely it's not imbalanced.

And if it is, what evidence exists that proves it is. 2000 rounds fired on similar DPS weapons?

Bjorn made that vague comment about it being connected to the magnitude of the damage.

Sounds like he's referring to DPS. If it is DPS, then there is no imbalance.

EU is not as complex as you might think.

these are findings based on my own tests, feel free to do your own tests with your own money as i did and post your findings.

we all know MA does poor balancing, enhancers very wall maybe unbalanced just like many other things in EU, but we are getting off topic, this is a whole other discussion.

 

[Spawn]

Ok, It's been three years since this thread was created. I have used quite a lot of enhancers because melee amps are still not here, well not buyable from auction anyway. In those three years my perception was that if an enhancer breaks, another one will break soon after that. So I believe in the theory that there is a difference between "fresh" crafted enhancers, and enhancers that have been used for 900 shots.
Does anyone have some data to prove or disprove this theory?

 

[Fifth]

Ok, It's been three years since this thread was created. I have used quite a lot of enhancers because melee amps are still not here, well not buyable from auction anyway. In those three years my perception was that if an enhancer breaks, another one will break soon after that. So I believe in the theory that there is a difference between "fresh" crafted enhancers, and enhancers that have been used for 900 shots.
Does anyone have some data to prove or disprove this theory?

I think everyone who uses enhancers has noticed they break in waves, instead of the even spread over time.
No surprise there, everything in EU is based on those (pseudo)random waves.

So, from what you have observed we can make a conclusion that EU works like EU.
Can't make any other conclusions, i'm afraid.


I would like to know as well if "uses left" for enhancers is stored on enhancers themselves, on avatar, or not stored at all (stateless object). But, ahem, so far haven't seen any proof either way.

 

[aVaLON_52]

It bugs the heck out of me not knowing what exactly causes the decay. I dont believe it is just NUMBER OF TIMES the gun is used. That would be ill logic and imbalanced. It has to be relayed to DPS. This is the only way it could be fair to all players.

The only FACTS as far as I know are.

Its random
50% increase for ul weapons
Something about damage magnitude? ..ambiguous

I asked MA, and was very specific

Their reply was...

"RANDOM"

Bout to give up on this topic altogether..

Because we're all using the same enhancers

Economical or not, your DPS goes up..

 

[Aio]

They way to find out is to test. This is how we did things back in the day - when Items had range, damage and TT as their stats.

I'm sure there are a few souls who have fully tested it - their choice to share or not. Your choice to test and then you can decide to share or not

 

[aVaLON_52]

They way to find out is to test. This is how we did things back in the day - when Items had range, damage and TT as their stats.

I'm sure there are a few souls who have fully tested it - their choice to share or not. Your choice to test and then you can decide to share or not

Yeah, I had been contemplating that..

I do have an ideal test in mind, perhaps I'll give it a go..

~Thx