Enhancers mafia :D

[~ Cirrus ~]

yawn...

My haters have been throwing that derogatory term in my face for years now... Yet I'm still here, playing the game I love, growing, expanding and most importantly: making money.

Entropia is the only game where some bad actors in the game have managed to get the whole community to use this derogatory term "reseller" instead of 'trader' which has this derisive connotation toward the player that is being accused of it; at this point, calling another Entropia player a "reseller" is akin to calling them a scumbag.

Hmm what ?

Wait, let me help you..

reseller
/ˌriːˈsɛlə/
noun
noun: reseller; plural noun: resellers
- A person or company that sells something they have bought to someone else.

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

Maybe someday I'll read the next 3795 lines of your post, if I can find the time... and the desire to do so...

 

[Katie Chalmers]

reseller
/ˌriːˈsɛlə/
noun
noun: reseller; plural noun: resellers
- A person or company that sells something they have bought to someone else.

So... aka everyone.
I’m a reseller as I have at least sold one thing that I also once bought.
I’m sure everyone here has too.

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

So... aka everyone.
I’m a reseller as I have at least sold one thing that I also once bought.
I’m sure everyone here has too.

This is the simple definition.
But we can discuss it, if you want to.

Legends said that calling someone a reseller is like calling them a scumbag.
So I just give him the definition of the word.

Then he has to find out why in a system like Entropia it has a negative connotation.
Who knows.. maybe it can be justified.

 

[MeiGDLing]

He is kind of right though, I think running a profitable shop/crafting business or taking advantage of cheap auctions is fine, people who list crafted items at a loss over and over (see newbie crafters) are a pain in the butt to serious crafters cus the only way to compete with them is to stop crafting/selling the item until they run out of money as you can't match their prices without losing or take the other stance and buy them all up, the opal guy was a lot different and you still see similar behaviour with like deeds (and ironically still with opals) where for example 24/7 if you list a CLD on auction or place an order for them they will undercut you with a new one by 1 ped over and over again meaning you have to not only buy but also sell on their terms and most of the avatars that do stuff like this have 0 tracker activity and are just a leech on the game as a whole/obvious alts (or perhaps it really is just someones grandma who used to be a wall street tycoon and has a nose for cut throat business).

 

[Katie Chalmers]

This is the simple definition.
But we can discuss it, if you want to.

Legends said that calling someone a reseller is like calling them a scumbag.
So I just give him the definition of the word.

Then he has to find out why in a system like Entropia it has a negative connotation.
Who knows.. maybe it can be justified.

I have a better EU suitable definition.
That is : Somebody that sells an item that has no business to even be owning one to begin with.

Legends has armor shop, and it’s a pretty good one IMO, irregardless of whether or not you find the prices fair we can not fault the man on his dedication to his craft. So it makes sense that he would buy and sell armor. Good shops need to stay stocked. Buying/Selling is integral to his business, Legends is not a reseller.

A hunter must buy gear to go hunting. It is unlikely that you will loot all your own UL weapons/gear to use, you have to buy them.
As a hunter inevitably skills up he will upgrade his gear to match, old gear needs to be sold to get funds for the new. Buying and selling is also a necessary part of hunting. A hunter is not a reseller.

A level 8 avatar glued to the floor tiles outside the balcony at twins, trying to sell a level 70 FEN weapon whose only game interaction is a daily forum bump and calytrade spam, well now you got yourself a reseller. Somebody who has no business owning that tool.

 

[Legends]

I have a better EU suitable definition.
That is : Somebody that sells an item that has no business to even be owning one to begin with.

Legends has armor shop, and it’s a pretty good one IMO, irregardless of whether or not you find the prices fair we can not fault the man on his dedication to his craft. So it makes sense that he would buy and sell armor. Good shops need to stay stocked. Buying/Selling is integral to his business, Legends is not a reseller.

A hunter must buy gear to go hunting. It is unlikely that you will loot all your own UL weapons/gear to use, you have to buy them.
As a hunter inevitably skills up he will upgrade his gear to match, old gear needs to be sold to get funds for the new. Buying and selling is also a necessary part of hunting. A hunter is not a reseller.

A level 8 avatar glued to the floor tiles outside the balcony at twins, trying to sell a level 70 FEN weapon whose only game interaction is a daily forum bump and calytrade spam, well now you got yourself a reseller. Somebody who has no business owning that tool.

I like your take on it, it makes sense.

Too many people throw this derisive term at others, with malice aforethought. Their intent is to insult them, to invalidate them. The person that calls another player a 'reseller' actually wants him or her to feel bad about who they are and what they do. It's an attempt at shaming, that's all it is. And in many cases, it is not deserved. Trading, in life and in games, is a legitimate activity.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

A level 8 avatar glued to the floor tiles outside the balcony at twins, trying to sell a level 70 FEN weapon whose only game interaction is a daily forum bump and calytrade spam, well now you got yourself a reseller. Somebody who has no business owning that tool.

Is the reseller really that bad? What about the seller who sold them the gun in the first place?

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Is the reseller really that bad? What about the seller who sold them the gun in the first place?

I'm not giving any opinion on whether a reseller is good or bad. The discussion was about the definitions of one.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

I'm not giving any opinion on whether a reseller is good or bad. The discussion was about the definitions of one.

Your definition of a reseller makes it sound like they are doing something wrong.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Your definition of a reseller makes it sound like they are doing something wrong.

I don't particularly like seeing rare/high end gear hoarded in storages by people that don't have any use for them. I want to see these things get used, generating revenue for mindark, and most importantly, generating revenue for my NTI shares .
It's not that I dislike resellers (using my definition), I understand their place in the game. Not every seller can wait for the perfect buyer, etc. Its more just a generic disappointment with the outcome. Similar to how any car guys out there would feel by seeing a grandma in an old school Mustang. The thing was born to race but you know she would never give its legs a stretch. Wasted potential.

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

I'm not giving any opinion on whether a reseller is good or bad. The discussion was about the definitions of one.

We sometimes hear here that traders are indispensable to the game.

This is obviously not true.
I mean lot of people seems to confuse traders whith resellers.

The only traders who were somewhat useful to the game, were those who stood @box and were buying loot in any quantities.
Then all players (especially beginners) who found themselves with very small stacks of this and that had other options than TT.

So these traders were obviously making profit, but they offered a service for it.

Unfortunately there are very few left compared to a few years ago.
And the few left buy at ridiculously low prices.

Anyway those are traders.

The game doesn't need resellers.

Actually the game could work in a close circuit.
A miner gets resources, that a crafter will buy to craft tools/weapons.
Hunter buy these weaps, sell his loot, that a crafter buy also, etc..

We got Auction house for that.

But the resellers simply come in between each of these steps for profit, without bringing anything to the game.
Nothing but to make the prices go up.

Someone who buys an item 120% at auction and immediately puts it on sale at 140% in his store, how does that contribute to the community ?
Let's be serious..
Same for people who buy stuff ingame to instant resell on forum of course.

They basicaly come between each of players to take a tax on transactions, without any legitimate reason to the game.

So to me, in this game,

A trader is offering a service. (some are good, some are pretty bad)
A reseller act like a leeche to the players.

That's how I see it.


And I want to make it clear, before I get myself in trouble, that I did not name anyone as a reseller.. Not yet..

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Someone who buys an item 120% at auction and immediately puts it on sale at 140% in his store, how does that contribute to the community ?
Let's be serious..

Agree with most of what you say, but not your mentality behind this statement.

I don't want to continue brining other people into my arguments, so i'll keep it generic.

First off, i think anybody that invests heavily into a shop and takes the time to manage it is entitled to make a margin on the products they stock.

Secondly I think it depends on what the shop specializes in. Enhancer and Armatrix weapon shops tend to have to keep their prices inline with the standard auction markup, or a bit cheaper, because of the high auction availability at any one time. Customers need a reason to leave the auctioneer and go to your shop.

Armor is different. Trying to get a full set of decently priced Looted armor in your gender from the auction is not always a quick and easy task. Every time I've tried to build one I am always a few pieces short, and have to wait a few days. Alternatively I could go to an armor shop that has a full set waiting for me, pay an extra few percent and be on my way. You pay for convenience.
I'm a patient person, and when I ran with Limited armor, I only bought pieces under 102%. I built full sets of Martial, Polaris, Boar, Thunderbird etc, But it took me a long time and many outbidding's. Not everyone is that patient.

 

[minim]

We sometimes hear here that traders are indispensable to the game.

This is obviously not true.
I mean lot of people seems to confuse traders whith resellers.

The only traders who were somewhat useful to the game, were those who stood @box and were buying loot in any quantities.
Then all players (especially beginners) who found themselves with very small stacks of this and that had other options than TT.

So these traders were obviously making profit, but they offered a service for it.

Unfortunately there are very few left compared to a few years ago.
And the few left buy at ridiculously low prices.

Anyway those are traders.

The game doesn't need resellers.

Actually the game could work in a close circuit.
A miner gets resources, that a crafter will buy to craft tools/weapons.
Hunter buy these weaps, sell his loot, that a crafter buy also, etc..

We got Auction house for that.

But the resellers simply come in between each of these steps for profit, without bringing anything to the game.
Nothing but to make the prices go up.

Someone who buys an item 120% at auction and immediately puts it on sale at 140% in his store, how does that contribute to the community ?
Let's be serious..
Same for people who buy stuff ingame to instant resell on forum of course.

They basicaly come between each of players to take a tax on transactions, without any legitimate reason to the game.

So to me, in this game,

A trader is offering a service. (some are good, some are pretty bad)
A reseller act like a leeche to the players.

That's how I see it.


And I want to make it clear, before I get myself in trouble, that I did not name anyone as a reseller.. Not yet..

I don’t see a difference in your version of a trader and a reseller. You describe the same thing but at a different volume. Your version of a reseller is just a way for higher level players to get (some) markup at a higher pace than selling through auction just like the trader description.

I understand your point tho. I don’t buy from the known gear resellers that add a ton of markup for nothing and only play this game to suck money off hunters. They are not doing anything wrong and it’s the hunters fault in the first place selling to them so it’s all just a part of the game. My way of avoiding them is just to not buy from them even below markup (lol like that is ever gonna happen).

 

[Msturlese]

The efficient markets theory comes to help on the roles here
1. AH is designed BAD, there is not a continuous auction, it is nominative in sales and hidden name in orders
2. there is a fixed amount commission and not a percent one, so some barriers for small amounts exist
3. there is a percent increase tax for prices different thatn TT so this leads to "more than linear" price growth
4. no centralized AH for all the planets
5. imbalances in supply due to local drop/materials (i will not specifically focus on enhancers)

that said there is more, like the lack of availability of some Blueprints.
anyone that click 50.000 ped of enhancers can drop all the bp from 1 to 7 so it iis an easy task, or can have
a full set 1...6 for 300 ped on ah, easy to enter the market

Armatrix BP drop random so can not get them so easy and as you can see some specific ones (Laser rifle)
command also 5 ped per click so alter the price curve of weapons

Armor is even worse, we all know (Ty Legend for the Thread explaining it) that (L) armor are about 110%
the efficiency of (UL) ones, and moreover do not suffer defense decay until 0 tt
the scarcity of Blueprint more than the materials alter the prices and drive them up, just like armatrix.

let us not confuse the premium for materials with the premium for "rarity" of item.

Pyrite will realign if not now after mayhem to usual prices, if a certain amount drops and is not reduced,
but just spread out, after some day of skirmish some "pyrite lover" will keep farm it mostly alone and
will compete to sell lower

Resellers (i prefer to call tehm "Traders" because it is their main activity are a necessary evil, just
because their (USUAL) slice is less than auction fees and hunters and miner have an "Enhanced TT"
to use.

The haters word "Reseller" is usually for ppl that seize important items knowing that some ppl
that is desperately looking for them will overpay to obtain. it is legit but they cannot pretend to be loved.........

an example? Trauma 5 mayhem, look on wiki, need a level 140 melee to be used , or just other 5 items
that are few and probably unavailable, but were just 5 and there was a rush to buy them
i am so happy that MA restocked them and let someone with an item they dont need to collect dust in storage.......
that is a reseller.... maybe one day he will resell

 

[Evey]

My haters have been throwing that derogatory term in my face for years now... Yet I'm still here, playing the game I love, growing, expanding and most importantly: making money.

I stopped reading here. You got it wrong. I'm not one of your haters. I don't care what you do. If you're achieving your goals, good for you. You provide a service at a cost. This thread is not about you. What I wanted to point out that is that you being a reseller is harder to see the point in this thread, which is a bit different than what you do...
I'm not one of those that claim that reselling is totally wrong. Even if I (like most active people) have most of the resellers on ignore, but reselling is now the point here.

Even if the thread's title is an exaggeration, there are some fine lines which I don't believe they have been brutally crossed but they are constantly pushed. That happens when the balancing is not good enough to prevent price manipulation.

 

[Synial]

Lots of obvious ulterior motive in this thread

After seeing what happened at Halloween; the only reason why I didn't buy enough Pyrite (at ~151%) to last me longer than through December was because it seemed obvious a pyrite rebalance was coming. Don't know how it took until the week before a month-long mayhem though.. way overdue.

I've been mining the last 2 days to get an idea if I should buy more pyrite.. and I won't be. Sucks for everyone not prepared though. Maybe they'll put some pyrite in the Mayhem Mob loot pool

Maybe get creative with your hidden agendas and ask them to put some wave events in lootable pvp instead of a resource that generates 10% ped cycle per tier for the entire playerbase.. maybe get some new mobs that drop some good loot and have the wave event announced to the entire server. You are actually looking for pvp and for your gear to matter, right?

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

I don’t see a difference in your version of a trader and a reseller. You describe the same thing but at a different volume. Your version of a reseller is just a way for higher level players to get (some) markup at a higher pace than selling through auction just like the trader description.

Do you go to the supermarket when you need food ?

You know this supermarket buys the products cheaper than it sells them to you, right ?
But, that supermarket provides a service.
You have everything you need right there, you don't have to go to the farm to buy potatoes, then to the orchard to buy fruit,
then to the cattle farm to buy meat, etc..
So it's pretty usefull.
(It can be compared to the Auction house ingame)

This supermarket takes a margin, it makes a profit, but it's for a service.

That's the trader. (still some are greedier than others, better find "fair trade")


Now you go to the supermarket to buy your potatoes at $4 a bag.
Damn, there are no more potatoes, the shelf is empty, disappointment.

Actually, some guy went right before you, bought all the potatoes.
He has then put a stall in the parking lot.

And when you walk out he tells you:
No more potatoes inside ?
You lucky guy, I have the potatoes you want ! Only $5 a bag !

That's the reseller.


Still can't see the difference ?

 

[minim]

Do you go to the supermarket when you need food ?

You know this supermarket buys the products cheaper than it sells them to you, right ?
But, that supermarket provides a service.
You have everything you need right there, you don't have to go to the farm to buy potatoes, then to the orchard to buy fruit,
then to the cattle farm to buy meat, etc..
So it's pretty usefull.
(It can be compared to the Auction house ingame)

This supermarket takes a margin, it makes a profit, but it's for a service.

That's the trader. (still some are greedier than others, better find "fair trade")


Now you go to the supermarket to buy your potatoes at $4 a bag.
Damn, there are no more potatoes, the shelf is empty, disappointment.

Actually, some guy went right before you, bought all the potatoes.
He has then put a stall in the parking lot.

And when you walk out he tells you:
No more potatoes inside ?
You lucky guy, I have the potatoes you want ! Only $5 a bag !

That's the reseller.


Still can't see the difference ?

Not really and your point of cornering the market wasn’t in your first post. That’s another thing. The first is also a reseller just as much as the last. They just bought all the potato’s from the farmer.. My point is that the one buying and selling high end gear also provides a service for the ones needing peds quickly or don’t have the patience or network to sell it quickly. Just as the farmer that doesn’t have the resources or facilities to sell to end users ^^

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

Not really and your point of cornering the market wasn’t in your first post. That’s another thing. The first is also a reseller just as much as the last. They just bought all the potato’s from the farmer.. My point is that the one buying and selling high end gear also provides a service for the ones needing peds quickly or don’t have the patience or network to sell it quickly. Just as the farmer that doesn’t have the resources or facilities to sell to end users ^^

Hmm ok.

 

[Sulje]

Not really and your point of cornering the market wasn’t in your first post. That’s another thing. The first is also a reseller just as much as the last. They just bought all the potato’s from the farmer.. My point is that the one buying and selling high end gear also provides a service for the ones needing peds quickly or don’t have the patience or network to sell it quickly. Just as the farmer that doesn’t have the resources or facilities to sell to end users ^^

Providing good service is the people who sell enhancers for lower price at auction, and a-hole is the person who buys out those, and sell for 30% more in his shops the same thing someone who needs it and use it could get easily from the auction. Not just a-hole, but a market manipulator as well !

 

[Legends]

I stopped reading here. You got it wrong. I'm not one of your haters. I don't care what you do. If you're achieving your goals, good for you. You provide a service at a cost. This thread is not about you. What I wanted to point out that is that you being a reseller is harder to see the point in this thread, which is a bit different than what you do...
I'm not one of those that claim that reselling is totally wrong. Even if I (like most active people) have most of the resellers on ignore, but reselling is now the point here.

Even if the thread's title is an exaggeration, there are some fine lines which I don't believe they have been brutally crossed but they are constantly pushed. That happens when the balancing is not good enough to prevent price manipulation.

I didn't say you were one of my haters, I said that the term "reseller" has been thrown in my face by my haters... You should really read the rest of the post. It's not all about me, it's mostly about how the term has evolved in Entropia, that it's mostly a derisive term used in an attempt to shame people, and how we should recognize it for what it is as a community, or at least define it clearly. And if it's just 'buying and selling' like Cirrus claims, then why do people insist on using that term here when in every other MMO I've ever played, the term Trader is used.

Anyway, I think you should finish reading my response, I think it's very disrespectful of you to respond to my post with insults and then when I put up a defense, you refuse to read it, very disrespectful... The post I wrote is more important then you think.

 

[minim]

Providing good service is the people who sell enhancers for lower price at auction, and a-hole is the person who buys out those, and sell for 30% more in his shops the same thing someone who needs it and use it could get easily from the auction. Not just a-hole, but a market manipulator as well !

That’s more aqqurate

 

[Msturlese]

Guys i reiterate the problem is Pyrite

bring me (or any crafter) 1000 bar Pyrite and receive 528 enh

that is pretty simple... enh price is direct funcion of pyrite.

p.s. (probably any crafter, i cant speak for other ppl)

 

[TheOneOmega]

Compromise idea (that might require reworking some fundamental code): Keep Pyrite mostly exclusive to the PVP Zone, but extend the Pyrite boundaries slightly beyond the PVP Zone, so that miners can choose to mine around the perimeter of the PVP Zone, but occasionally a claim will spawn inside which they will have to abandon or risk entering.

I guess now-a-days miners have that fancy claim summoning button, which would have to be disabled. I'm not a fan of the button anyhow, I miss the old days where one had to either plan where to mine more intelligently, or use sliding to ascend hills (today it would be vehicles instead).

 

[Alina]

Think the discussion got a bit to far from the main idea. So