Entropia Universe is not a casino

[Deleted member 23278]

It's getting very tiresome reading all the comments about EU being a casino.

To put it in balck and white....

YOU take risks if YOU want to.

I've had losses that have made me hate hunting.

I've had returns that have made me LOVE hunting.

The idea is that you INVEST in your avatar over time and gather resources enough to sell at a markup to get back some of your spending..(if you take up professions) although you are meant to be able to profit from selling loot for example..but this is not always the case.

The problem is that this game IS very expensive and dissapointment arrises when people realise just how much of an investment is needed that many cannot afford and i fully appreciate the hard times experienced by many people as i have suffered them myself.

Comments by people will follow my post according mostly to their own experiences.

There is a right and wrong way of doing things and even when you do everything right you can still lose... but is it REALLY loss ? (see the deep meaning here please)

there are things i don't agree with about EU and the way things are done with loot during events and such...

I've had my worst times since february of this year and yet i still don't see this game as a casino... it's just become too bloody expensive but it could be and probably is for a damn good reason.

EU IS NOT A CASINO !!

(i might not respond to replies myself unless it's something constructive)
(i don't mind being critisized so please go ahead if need be)

 

[valen12771]

YOU take risks if YOU want to.

Right, and if you want to you put money in, click a button and maybe get some money, maybe lose some money, sure sounds an awful lot like a casino to me, because from what I have seen lately, you certainly need absolutly 0 skills to get ubers loots.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Right, and if you want to you put money in, click a button and maybe get some money, maybe lose some money, sure sounds an awful lot like a casino to me, because from what I have seen lately, you certainly need absolutly 0 skills to get ubers loots.

Expecting uber loots is your choice. too many people treat the game as a money maker without the common sense and money to make it work.

 

[sob]

Is your argument against EU being a casino that you take the risk you want to?

Investing in your avatar over time as you say sounds like investing in the stock market Im not sure if thats any better than a casino.

 

[Rumsponge]

Ok, so which is worse,

-a game that is a casino?

-or a game that isn't a casino but pretends to be one?

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Is your argument against EU being a casino that you take the risk you want to?

Investing in your avatar over time as you say sounds like investing in the stock market Im not sure if thats any better than a casino.

Good point but it's a state of mind i think.. i see it as entertainment.. a passtime..a hobby.. if one plays to gain then one has to be business minded, not everyone has what it takes to be successful no matter how much money they put into an investment.. wrong choices can be made. What makes it even harder here is the ease of market manipulation. Stock market is not simple.. stock brokers are usually good at their jobs that's why people employ them to do the job in the first place.. not a thing for amatuers.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Ok, so which is worse,

-a game that is a casino?

-or a game that isn't a casino but pretends to be one?

It's not pretense.. it's wrong impression that needs to be addressed

 

[Compusmurf]

A casino is where games of chance are played for RL Money.
EU is where games of chance are played for RL Money.

In a casino, the players skills may or may not affect the outcome of the games played.
In EU, the players skills may or may not affect the outcome of the games played.

In some casinos you can do other activities that do not cost.
In EU you can do other activities that do not cost.

Some casinos have markets where you can buy additional items.
EU has stores and shops where you can buy additional items.

Some casinos have tailors where you can get your clothing repaired.
EU has tailors where you can get your clothing repaired.

MOST casinos have alcohol to drink.
EU has bars but no alcohol.

WOOT!!!! Proof in the last line that EU isn't a casino!!!!!

 

[Rumsponge]

It's not pretense.. it's wrong impression that needs to be addressed

Maybe the first step toward "addressing" that would be for MA to stop constantly scrolling global, HoF, and ATH messages across your screen? I wonder why they don't stop doing that. I never see those messages in any other online game. I wonder why they only exist in an RCE game. Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 23278]

A casino is where games of chance are played for RL Money.
EU is where games of chance are played for RL Money.

In a casino, the players skills may or may not affect the outcome of the games played.
In EU, the players skills may or may not affect the outcome of the games played.

In some casinos you can do other activities that do not cost.
In EU you can do other activities that do not cost.

Some casinos have markets where you can buy additional items.
EU has stores and shops where you can buy additional items.

Some casinos have tailors where you can get your clothing repaired.
EU has tailors where you can get your clothing repaired.

MOST casinos have alcohol to drink.
EU has bars but no alcohol.

WOOT!!!! Proof in the last line that EU isn't a casino!!!!!

Casinos have lights and things that flash...

EU have lights and things that flash... must be a casino then eh? (NOT)

 

[Rumsponge]

MOST casinos have alcohol to drink.
EU has bars but no alcohol.

WOOT!!!! Proof in the last line that EU isn't a casino!!!!!

You forgot "Casinos don't have pawn shops in them, EU has several."

 

[Torresta]

if u play poker u have a chance to win (good loot), and a chance to loose (bad loot) , if u don't know how to play u may get lucky and win (noob uber loot) but u will loose most of the time , if u know how to play u have a lot better chances to win (steady long run profit) but if u get really bad cards ...

the game absolutely has some gambling factors but knowing the game helps a lot.
the problem is that if u play with opponents that know the game as u do (uber vs uber) luck factor gets a lot more important , if he is better then u then luck factor is all u got ,ofc playing like a fool makes makes it even worse.

 

[Abis-Mirros]

In EU we can play gambling or "play smart".

In a casino everything depends only on the luck.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Maybe the first step toward "addressing" that would be for MA to stop constantly scrolling global, HoF, and ATH messages across your screen? I wonder why they don't stop doing that. I never see those messages in any other online game. I wonder why they only exist in an RCE game. Any thoughts?

I've wondered that myself.. there is certanly a thing about intisement in EU-RCE it works different to others so there needs to be a different angle to encourage players i guess..i've no doubt that that true RCE are living on uncertain cashflow where the likes of WOW can predict income easier without need for it.

 

[Compusmurf]

In EU we can play gambling or "play smart".

In a casino everything depends only on the luck.

Wrong use of facts.

Casino's are not luck only. Slots=luck. Poker=skill and some luck. Come play poker with me and I'll eat you alive and show you the difference.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

if u play poker u have a chance to win (good loot), and a chance to loose (bad loot) , if u don't know how to play u may get lucky and win (noob uber loot) but u will loose most of the time , if u know how to play u have a lot better chances to win (steady long run profit) but if u get really bad cards ...

the game absolutely has some gambling factors but knowing the game helps a lot.
the problem is that if u play with opponents that know the game as u do (uber vs uber) luck factor gets a lot more important , if he is better then u then luck factor is all u got ,ofc playing like a fool makes makes it even worse.

I agree with that .. a true casino is a gamble from the moment you start playing..how many casinos give free play and actually give the chance to make money make money from it.. absolutely there are ways to gamble in this game but for so many ppl to blindly call it a casino is just wrong.

 

[Rumsponge]

I've wondered that myself.. there is certanly a thing about intisement in EURCE works different to others so there needs to be a different angle to encourage players i guess..i've no doubt that that true RCE are living on uncertain cashflow where the likes of WOW can predict income easier without need for it.

But, you would agree that the entire point of those messages is to entice the players to keep depositing or deposit more with the idea that they could "hit the jackpot", right? There is really no other point to those messages. That is why I say that Entropia either is gambling or it just pretends to be gambling to keep the addicts hooked.

If you look back to past "casino" threads, you will see that people have complained about this point over and over, yet MA has never done anything about it. So, they must have a real reason to leave those messages there.

 

[valentin]

When you writing that pc (Entropia Universe is not a casino) then i have to ask you - do you have any proof.

In all games there you can play about money you have odds you know your chances but here in you dont even have some odds so you dont know anything about what you have to do and when ppl with lvl 1 gets ATH then it cant be a game based on skills and good gear dont give you better loot only give you the chance to do more for same money.

Then it have to be luck - not skills or good gear so in a way this game most be like a casino with luck and without odds so sure its not a casino because casino has odds so this game most be even more bad to be in then to play a casino because we have odds there and not here.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

But, you would agree that the entire point of those messages is to entice the players to keep depositing or deposit more with the idea that they could "hit the jackpot", right? There is really no other point to those messages. That is why I say that Entropia either is gambling or it just pretends to be gambling to keep the addicts hooked.

If you look back to past "casino" threads, you will see that people have complained about this point over and over, yet MA has never done anything about it. So, they must have a real reason to leave those messages there.

No i don't see the hof/global channel as a hope of hitting the jackpot...more of a point about what mobs are looting and what kind of skill lvl players are getting them... can give false impression according ones point of view... maybe a point of the FEAL of gambling that will be addressed in the future.

 

[Compusmurf]

Hellraizer.

How much $ have you "earned" and withdrawn? It's obvious you play smart and are here to "earn", so I assume you're wildly successful at it.

Give us some facts and figures.

For my job, I go to work, I earn X amount of $ for X amount of hours.

For my avatar, I go to "work", I may or may NOT earn X amount of $ for my time spent. In fact, I may even "lose" $ for my "work", depending alot on luck and some algorithm in MA's computers.

If that's NOT chance, I don't know what is.

Call it what you want, Casino, game, etc. But a wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.

If it makes you feel better to call it a game of skill, feel free. Nobody is forcing you to think it's a casino or a casino like game.

1/3 of the folks in this thread probably will NOT be here in another year or 2 because they "think" they are going to earn any substantial amount of $ by playing for free or on the cheap.

last count was what? 500k accounts registered. How many of those are actually active?

 

[Deleted member 23278]

When you writing that pc (Entropia Universe is not a casino) then i have to ask you - do you have any proof.

In all games there you can play about money you have odds you know your chances but here in you dont even have some odds so you dont know anything about what you have to do and when ppl with lvl 1 gets ATH then it cant be a game based on skills and good gear dont give you better loot only give you the chance to do more for same money.

Then it have to be luck - not skills or good gear so in a way this game most be like a casino with luck and without odds so sure its not a casino because casino has odds so this game most be even more bad to be in then to play a casino because we have odds there and not here.

This the kind of view i cannot agree with.. you ask me for proof yet can you prove your own points ?... it has been stated that average mob loot is something like 3 pec or so... odds of return can be calculated within all EU prefessions with a personnaly acceptable margin of loss as an average.. which is where the bussiness minded players come in.. i'd expect nothing but loss if i did something i didn't know about, many crafting activities can be calculated to cost per pec and expected loss

 

[Compusmurf]

You all have fun deciding if it's a casino or not. I'm going to log in and go "earn" some $ at my 2nd job....

 

[Gluepot]

EU is not a gamble. Over time either you profit, or you lose. There are things you can do to improve your profit, or increase your loss. Many people like to set themselves up for failure and then complain that they are losing money.
But you know, somebody has to lose in order for others to profit. However, by this statement I am not saying that some people lose in the TT so that others profit in TT, as I believe that over time we all get very similar TT results. Markup is the key to success, or the straw that breaks the camel's back. You just have to know how to manage your markup.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

EU is not a gamble. Over time either you profit, or you lose. There are things you can do to improve your profit, or increase your loss. Many people like to set themselves up for failure and then complain that they are losing money.
But you know, somebody has to lose in order for others to profit. However, by this statement I am not saying that some people lose in the TT so that others profit in markup, as I believe that over time we all get very similar results. Markup is the key to success, or the straw that breaks the camel's back. You just have to know how to manage your markup.

Absolutely !

 

[Lem]

Casino or not, I think anybody has the chance to get an ATH, that part to a large degree is just pure luck... you have to be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing.

You can however increase your chance of being the lucky one by doing the right thing in the first place... nobody ever won the lottery by not buying a ticket of course!

As anyone who has been here more than 5 minutes knows, there are certain activities that are more likely to give you an ath, so, you need to be doing the right thing in the first place...

Now unless you are a super lucky noob or a money no object kind of person then chances are you will need some skills to be able to sustain the activity required to give you the chance of the ATH or you'll end up being one of those players that is always complaining about how expensive this game is.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Casino or not, I think anybody has the chance to get an ATH, that part to a large degree is just pure luck... you have to be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing.

You can however increase your chance of being the lucky one by doing the right thing in the first place... nobody ever won the lottery by not buying a ticket of course!

As anyone who has been here more than 5 minutes knows, there are certain activities that are more likely to give you an ath, so, you need to be doing the right thing in the first place...

Now unless you are a super lucky noob or a money no object kind of person then chances are you will need some skills to be able to sustain the activity required to give you the chance of the ATH or you'll end up being one of those players that is always complaining about how expensive this game is.

yep i don't deny that there is a luck factor and i agree with and thank you for this input and guys.. we do not know each other just becuase we live in same city LOL

 

[Miss Scarlett]

"EU is gambling", "online poker is rigged", etc. is what you hear from people with no money management skills.

because of the micro-payment system in EU, every action is -EV, but using the systems in place to sell for +%, you can make a profit if you act within your budget - allowing enough to count for varience.

take 5 x 200 ped mining runs for example:

80% return; sucker says "damn, lost 40 peds"
60% return; sucker says "damn, this blows"
80% return; sucker says "I can't make money here "
160% return; sucker says "finally, I'm getting good at this"
70% return; sucker says "screw this, I'm going back to blackjack."

experienced miner says "90% tt return as expected - nice profit with markup".

Why do lesser skilled players hit big so often? I can only spectulate that the more skills you have the less varience is attributed to your avatar.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

"EU is gambling", "online poker is rigged", etc. is what you hear from people with no money management skills.

because of the micro-payment system in EU, every action is -EV, but using the systems in place to sell for +%, you can make a profit if you act within your budget - allowing enough to count for varience.

take 5 x 200 ped mining runs for example:

80% return; sucker says "damn, lost 40 peds"
60% return; sucker says "damn, this blows"
80% return; sucker says "I can't make money here "
160% return; sucker says "finally, I'm getting good at this"
70% return; sucker says "screw this, I'm going back to blackjack."

experienced miner says "90% tt return as expected - nice profit with markup".

Why do lesser skilled players hit big so often? I can only spectulate that the more skills you have the less varience is attributed to your avatar.

I appreciate your point but just because inexperienced players gets good find once in a blue moon doesn't make it a casino.. the noOb player that gets this may never get anything good againand consider how many new players DO NOT get anything good but we need this to encourage new players.. yet higher skilled and more experienced player will very likely get a much higher overall return rate during their life on Entropia

 

[Joat]

Ofc it isn't a casino, in casinos you actually have chance to win something....

To be classified as gambling, the general impression must be as if the
game is based on randomness, no matter how system is coded.
EU/PC isn't judged as gambling, so there must be ways to "see" the
reason why stuff happens. Imo, MA/FPC could be more clear in hints
that we should look for, to fully understand system.
But I guess they don't want people to understand system better (and
no, not only due to those obvious reasons... )

EU/PC has a mechanism that makes everyone lose in average, when we
look at ROI in pure tt-value, and also in some years perspective.
We may break even or even profit with help of some parts in the cycle
that gives a better return and/or from MU of stuff we loot.

Those saying they profit continously in pure tt-value has probably a way
too slow skillprogress, so the day they end up in bad part of a cycle when
getting skilled, their losses will be painful.
But worse than others? Guess not.

When it comes to a certain category of players get good or great loot,
it's based on our skillprogress. Our progress isn't linear, there will be
peaks and there will abysses too....

 

[Waldi]

professions like hunting, crafting, mining is gambling = equivalent to casino

play the game without those activities and you are not gambling

conclusion:
it depends on you, if entropia is a casino

let me think, how many player don´t hunt, mine or craft?