Ethics.. :scratch2:

Nano

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Why So Serious
Out of interest, who does "run an honest business"? Businesses are run for profit and, as far as I can see, the only way to make a profit is to make people believe "the product" is worth more than they are paying for it. If companies were honest, then it would also be easier to see the true value of "the product" and competition would result in people paying less for it.

I'm trying to think of "an honest business". Nope, can't think of one.
- Banks, Telecoms and many service providers use misleading rules, hidden charges, and the natural tendency of some people to not pay attention to their spending to rack up fees.
- Builders, plumbers, and other contractors push premium materials that actually cost little more than the cheaper alternatives, or they install the cheaper alternatives anyway because you cannot tell the difference.
- Retailers mark items up only to slash their prices so that people think they are getting a good deal.
- Movie, games and other entertainment producers put out misleading advertising to get people to buy their product. They also try to control reviews and reviewers.
- Mechanics get you to pay for replacement parts that do not need replacing, sometimes not even replacing the part, or they take out perfectly good parts and use them with other customers.

There are "degrees of honesty" of course. In fact, it is all a matter of perspective. You might be a banker or lawyer who is technically cheating people out of thousands, yet you are outraged when you buy "organic" bread from a farm stand only to find it came from the local supermarket.
 

TheRock

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Out of interest, who does "run an honest business"? Businesses are run for profit and, as far as I can see, the only way to make a profit is to make people believe "the product" is worth more than they are paying for it. If companies were honest, then it would also be easier to see the true value of "the product" and competition would result in people paying less for it.

I'm trying to think of "an honest business". Nope, can't think of one.
- Banks, Telecoms and many service providers use misleading rules, hidden charges, and the natural tendency of some people to not pay attention to their spending to rack up fees.
- Builders, plumbers, and other contractors push premium materials that actually cost little more than the cheaper alternatives, or they install the cheaper alternatives anyway because you cannot tell the difference.
- Retailers mark items up only to slash their prices so that people think they are getting a good deal.
- Movie, games and other entertainment producers put out misleading advertising to get people to buy their product. They also try to control reviews and reviewers.
- Mechanics get you to pay for replacement parts that do not need replacing, sometimes not even replacing the part, or they take out perfectly good parts and use them with other customers.

There are "degrees of honesty" of course. In fact, it is all a matter of perspective. You might be a banker or lawyer who is technically cheating people out of thousands, yet you are outraged when you buy "organic" bread from a farm stand only to find it came from the local supermarket.

You have a point there.

My question to u is, why so serious?
Seriously why so serious ???
 

Aio

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Uh?

I would like to think a lot of us work for or own honest businesses.

I go above and beyond to make sure my customers get the products they require, I advise them of the most cost effective solutions, work with them to make sure they adhere to safety & industry regulations.

The products I sell/provide to people, FYI, are analytical references to make sure drugs are safe from harmful impurities and drinking water is safe from pesticide residues, and cells for researchers focused on cancer (along a million other laboratory things).

Of course, my company makes a profit but without the products we sell, everyone's lives would be far more dangerous.
 

Ranavolana

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There is a bit more to things than the difference in cost between what the tradesman purchased the raw materials for & the finished product.

You are purchasing the tradesman's skill & experience that enables him to do a good job - one that you can rely on.
If he puts a premium on this - well you don't have to use his services. You can choose another.
You can also be purchasing convenience, an expensive tradesman who does a good job quickly & without causing worry.
Dishonesty comes into it when he warrants he can produce s service to a particular standard - and does not use the correct materials, and/or does not produce work to the standard promised/expected.

Its not the cost its the promise - you said it yourself re the "organic" bread.

And again - when the tradesman/bankers/lawyers etc all collude to set prices. Now that is unfair
 

San

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And again - when the tradesman/bankers/lawyers etc all collude to set prices. Now that is unfair

Maddox IV crafting comes to mind. I don't know anyone personally who has this rare blueprint, but suspicious is that it's not for the lack of Dunkel it's as good as vanished from the market. Markups for Adjusted M. keep well above the sum of what the ingredients cost, if they could be had. Almost everything else tanks to cost level or even below after the initial hype dies down, to one's dismay and the other's delight, but not this one. I don't know of another item more enticing to cartel building.
 

jetsina

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Out of interest, who does "run an honest business"?
.....
Businesses are run for profit and, as far as I can see, the only way to make a profit is to make people believe "the product" is worth more than they are paying for it.

A product should be "worth" enough for a decent day's work making the product to earn enough money for a reasonable lifestyle for those involved, including the business owner - the term recently buzzing around being a "living wage". In lots of accounting the profit is what the self-employed are able to pay themselves for their work, so the ability to profit should indeed be respected in the prices that are set (and the value to a buyer).

Unfortunately, it is extremely hard to know what a fair price actually is for most of our goods and services these days. But there are millions of people out there who still run an honest business, yes!
 

Aio

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Maddox IV crafting comes to mind. I don't know anyone personally who has this rare blueprint, but suspicious is that it's not for the lack of Dunkel it's as good as vanished from the market. Markups for Adjusted M. keep well above the sum of what the ingredients cost, if they could be had. Almost everything else tanks to cost level or even below after the initial hype dies down, to one's dismay and the other's delight, but not this one. I don't know of another item more enticing to cartel building.

I've bolded the bit which utterly invalidates your comment.

I know two people who own the BP, and both cannot craft it due to lack of dunkel. One was even reluctant to craft the BP (L) (which uses different materials) due to very low craft success percentage - i.e. he did not want to rip off the buyer by attempting a 5 click BP with the chance of only getting 1 maddox (and thus being unable to make the adj m4).

So please don't just make stuff up :)

EDIT: those two people are completely unrelated by soc, language, affiliation or any other connections. If you don't believe me, bring me enough dunkel and I'll get them crafted for you.
 

San

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I keep seeing Dunkel on auction, not much but it keeps trickling in. I don't know about other factors. I'm not trying to make stuff up, but it looks suspicious to me. If not so, I am happy to learn otherwise.
 

Aio

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I keep seeing Dunkel on auction, not much but it keeps trickling in. I don't know about other factors. I'm not trying to make stuff up, but it looks suspicious to me. If not so, I am happy to learn otherwise.

M4 requires 5 dunkel, AM4 therefore 10 (not counting failed attempts, which you can usually say hitrate is 25-35%. So actual dunkel requirement may be up to 40 units).

Those one or two bits occasionally popping up will likely be hoovered up by someone collecting to manufacture M4's.

As I said, I know two crafters personally who have the BP and both cite dunkel as a problem.
 
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Wollongong

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Out of interest, who does "run an honest business"? Businesses are run for profit and, as far as I can see, the only way to make a profit is to make people believe "the product" is worth more than they are paying for it. If companies were honest, then it would also be easier to see the true value of "the product" and competition would result in people paying less for it.

I'm trying to think of "an honest business". Nope, can't think of one.
- Banks, Telecoms and many service providers use misleading rules, hidden charges, and the natural tendency of some people to not pay attention to their spending to rack up fees.
- Builders, plumbers, and other contractors push premium materials that actually cost little more than the cheaper alternatives, or they install the cheaper alternatives anyway because you cannot tell the difference.
- Retailers mark items up only to slash their prices so that people think they are getting a good deal.
- Movie, games and other entertainment producers put out misleading advertising to get people to buy their product. They also try to control reviews and reviewers.
- Mechanics get you to pay for replacement parts that do not need replacing, sometimes not even replacing the part, or they take out perfectly good parts and use them with other customers.

There are "degrees of honesty" of course. In fact, it is all a matter of perspective. You might be a banker or lawyer who is technically cheating people out of thousands, yet you are outraged when you buy "organic" bread from a farm stand only to find it came from the local supermarket.

Not sure why this is on this forum, and not some anti-capitalist place, but... this is an interesting look at things.
 

maxwellhawk

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Dunkel is available but you have to pay BIG bucks to get it.
 
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