Few Questions after long break

Thark

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Hey everyone,

I have been gone for a while now and been lurking in the forums, entropedia etc. but I have a few things that I couldn't readily find the answer to so I thought it might be easier to simply ask and maybe someone else learns sth as well. So here I go:

1.) I've been reading about DPP influencing the Loot distribution. How do we know? (Anyone have the exact quote) And how is it influenced? Is it simply a case of: On a X PED run, if 2 setups have the same efficiency but one does twice the amount of dmg per pec (likely impossible and obviously hyperbole but you get the point) then you get the same amount of TT back but since one of the setups did twice the amount of dmg, you had twice as many chances to loot those sweet unL Shadow shins / Tier 9 components etc.? Or something more obscure, like current theory is we get more wool/hide and stuff because of the inner algorithm used to determine that sorta thing? Could even be the other way around, now that I think about it: In those cases where we loot 1/2tt weapons, doing less dmg per pec might be preferable, leading to a full tt weapon in above example. You get the point, what do we know?

2.) Is there a list of all the available buffs and their limits? An easy excel table would be great. Seems like buffs are a super important part of the game now, annoyingly enough if you ask me.

3.) On those buff limits: is that "Action" limit
really only from pills? Or are there exceptions, like some weird Rocktopia unterpants or maybe those crit scopes or w/e?

4.) Uhhhh and is there a list of all the items that give buffs except for rings, and pills and stuff that is already listed on entropedia? Like I found some Horns, and armor and also a jumpsuit but really, entropedia didn't seem to have a convenient way to compare and rediscover all options.

5.) Do we have a nice and easy way to track hunts? Like I dunno, an excel sheet that you copy/paste your item list from the website into before and after the hunt and then it calculates that stuff, preferably also connecting to some auction data server to take weekly MU. Or something along those lines? I just came up with that option there are prolly smarter ways to do what I want, knowing how much a run costed/earned without tedious manual tracking. I'd be happy to PayPal some $ your way, if you already created something convenient.

6.) This one is prolly pure speculation but whats up with those loot boxes and keys? I don't mind the gamble but is there any point opening any of them now? Seems like the most desirable items are those Winter/summer/Easter Rings and those prolly only drop during those Events no? Like what if I were to buy 2k Winter Boxes and opened them now, would there be any chance to get a Ring? What about those boxes from the website? Why would I buy those instead of opening seasonal boxes (price of the boxes aside)?

The new Loot system seems straight forward enough, with the usual theory-crafting ofc but I feel like i basically understand what they are getting at and what I need to look into. But is there anything else you would advice me to look into? Basically since the time buffs were mostly candy canes from MM?

Thanks everyone, especially those that read all that and maybe even answer! :)
Thark
 
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Katie Chalmers

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1. Mindark have confirmed that D/pec only affects Loot composition. Don't know where the official statement is but I'm sure somebody can link it. But yes D/pec and efficiency are often co-alligned but not always, you can change your d/pec without changing your efficiency, they are 2 separate metrics and do different things.
I do believe in the sentiment where sometimes its better to lower dpec to get better TT condition of items, just on my own observations. I often run out to hunt pototype drones and farm newbie guns and amps to supply to my disciples, and when I use a high dpec weapon I get alot more half TT items, so i switch to something more average and find I get more full TT ones. This may not be true however, I'm not claiming it to be.
Another reason to lower D/pec is to have a higher chance at getting a larger loot from HSL events, or making it higher on the HOF list.
2. Ill leave for somebody else to answer, I don't know where to find such a list of information.
3. Can you rephrase the question?
4. Entropiawiki is likely still the best place, not sure of a more complete compilation.
5. In terms of tracking hunts, pretty much everyone i know uses excel sheets that they make themselves. There are some third party programs that have been invented over the years but they likely haven't been updated for a long time or are dead links, so I wont recommend them. If you want pure TT in/out you could use your entropia universe account to see that. just check it before and after the hunt. but you would have to adjust for any fluctuations caused by auctions/fees/deed payments during that time. I am also unsure on how Universal ammo is valued on this, you would have to double check.
6. As far as I know event rings can drop from a box anytime up until the next ring is released, more professional box openers may be able to say if there is any "Dead period" between the current and next season,
Opening stronboxes from the website is actually a very smart way to deposit. 10 dollars gets you 100ped of stuff always, most of it is universal ammo, but you also get items that can be sold for markup, making you profit on alot of occasions. and if you loot a perfected ares, then you just made 7k.

Welcome back to the game.
 
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Kerham

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1) ref dpp and loot comp, how do we know: MA stated so. What they said was that basically you get less shrapnel and more wool/paints ("more interesting loot") etc, There are quite a few on-point questions which can be raised (you mentioned one, what happens with the tt of a weapon), and I am mainly answering to see what more informed people would say. If they will. There is no public available data in the sense of some series of tests or anything.

2-3-4-5 dunno

6) on top of what Katie said, skill pills are very useful. Be mindful of neurostim, some of those should only be refined into universal ammo (Y series f.ex.), others are half-useful (X), others are very good (X2, Z). Look at their effects vs time vs tt value and compare with hyperstims. B and C can go straight to tt. A can be sold to other players. Same goes for all hyperstim 5/10/15 mg from mayhem boxes, plenty of traders around to do the middle-work (for various prices, from a-hole to decent-ish). Mayhem boxes have a certain chance (low, but still) to loot some hunting amps with a decent MU. This is the meat of boxes, rings are the eventual bonus. If you're willing to make a turnover of a couple of k$ per month, rinse once, withdraw, can be a pretty solid thing, but I would let such things for a tad later, until you clear up some notions.

Btw, what's your skill lvl? If your main profession is something like lvl25-30, dpp is a moot point, you can skill easily with widely available armatrix and some looted L from auction or some cheap ul. Weapons and situations where these things matters cost 5-6 figures and are for lvl80+. There you basically need to make a choice considering three factors, dpp-dps(tier)-eff. But on the way up, don't lose much sleep over this, you won't make a mercedes or anything from 2 extra thin wool.
 
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Thark

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Thanks for all the answers until now, some very interesting info, tho I still have a giant question mark above my head. I know I asked this late at night and now Im responding before work but lemme just respond shortly to the questions:

Katie: I was trying to ask about the composition of buffs. Have a look at this pic:
It says Item, Action, Total. My bad I used "Effect" in the original question, I meant Action. So the question is, what is considered an action? Pills only? If I were to want to maximize my Buffs, should I only be looking at Items? Or are there some odd exceptions that would count into the "Action" pool of buffs?

Kerham: Thank you for the reply, I hadn't considered those pills thoroughly enough it seems.
My level is about lvl 70ish. I understand what you are saying but I think to me, this sort of planning and figuring out my weapon, armor fap etc. is part of the fun for me and I'm at a point of my life where I can spend money on fun.
I used to participate in the old school MM, you now where we didnt have instances but mobtrains and logging off to keep the 40h, with people pre-pulling and then informing me on TS to log in and so on. I even won a few times, or got second or w/e and I do own a WOF jacket and trophy. So I feel like I know what Im doing, at least I used to know that. My current plan is: some Event setup focused on dps>>dpp>efficiency, and another smaller gun with high efficiency+resto chip adj. to exploit that codex in between ;). But I really do appreciate all the tips, I just meant to show whats going on in my head when I ask those kinda questions.
 

Katie Chalmers

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Thanks for all the answers until now, some very interesting info, tho I still have a giant question mark above my head. I know I asked this late at night and now Im responding before work but lemme just respond shortly to the questions:

Katie: I was trying to ask about the composition of buffs. Have a look at this pic:
It says Item, Action, Total. My bad I used "Effect" in the original question, I meant Action. So the question is, what is considered an action? Pills only? If I were to want to maximize my Buffs, should I only be looking at Items? Or are there some odd exceptions that would count into the "Action" pool of buffs?
Item is any and all wearables.
Action is any pill or consumable. I believe any game awarded buffs come into here as well. (Such as from completing a boss wave)
 

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There should be created (if not already created) an thread with all new information a returning player should know about the game mechanincs up to date, instead of taking the discussion from zero all the time someone asks.
 

Katie Chalmers

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He said he did read over many posts but wanted clarification on a few points, certain things he read but didn’t quite understand.
I see no harm in discussing common issues again as we all might learn something new each time.
I do see harm in dissuading fellow and future forum users from asking.
 

Aloisius

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There should be created (if not already created) an thread with all new information a returning player should know about the game mechanincs up to date, instead of taking the discussion from zero all the time someone asks.
not to be rude but - have you tried using the search function on this forum? i can't even find my own posts
 

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not to be rude but - have you tried using the search function on this forum? i can't even find my own posts
I did, and it works. I meant it could be used as sticky.
 

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But I really do appreciate all the tips, I just meant to show whats going on in my head when I ask those kinda questions.

Okay. Let's try to break down things a bit:

- efficiency this is the easiest one, usually you'll be looking anyway at a choice (speaking of a high lvl ul) between 70% and 90% eff. Not the end of the world, effective difference 1.4% of turnover. In contrast, BC-105 (bit higher, but still good example for the perspective) ranks in an atrocious cca. -3% impact on turnover simply from its MU. So considering 0,7% return per 10 eff, is an effective -40 eff for what otherwise would look like a very good choice. Add an L amp and you're doomed to eternal deposit (and won't be competitive anyway in dps-based situations because L tiers are, well, L).

- dps: very worthy notice if you haven't caught up on the matter is that dmg enh are cheap nowadays. Namely you get back the tt of 0.8 when they break and MU is low. Not meaning they come for free, adding up a ton of dmg (because the base dmg is itself a ton), they will break often-ish. not something to be ignored, but far, very far less detrimental than the eventual MU of some L. Also tiering up itself became quite cheap, nowadays you only pay the MU for those items (not small), but you get back 100% of the materials used, as shrapnel - somebody correct me if I am wrong. Some high lvl weaponry has been tiered up in the old system and hence carry a never-again-to be reached cost sinked in tiering up. So might be an option to pick up a tier 0 at lower price and tier it up yourself, even if would take awhile - pretty much a call to make yourself after you properly prospect the options

- dpp: you can see an extreme example by doing a quick dirty test. Pick up a grindhouse series L from auc (striptease I think would be a donation of 60-80 peds can't remember right now). They have an eff of 0 and being a pre 2.0 wep, eff is directly proportional to dpp, which is also godam awful. You can quickly do with it some medium fouls or small argos. Point is you will loot 99,99999% shrapnel, not writing 100% just because maybe there could be some animal hide there.

Hence, for tier comps for example, a common sense combo of 2.9ish dpp at least, don't go bananas with some high tier swine deluxe expecting good MU.

Now, the problem is like this: newest 2.0, most of them, have very high base dpp. Add rings with chc and chd, maybe armor with chd and then that can be supplemented with pills. They will be, all things considered, at a level which is simply unattainable with a base dpp of 3, because them can get the same modifiers, just applied to a higher base.

The question then is how important is this. An obvious example is codex. Maybe combine it with skill pills (which means less effective turnover needed to get X amount of skills) and you can speed things fairly fast.

In terms of loot. Frankly nobody would come out with these things clear, and odds are nobody has a full answer, as always there will be schools of thought:

- eff based: if I have 1% better return (e.g. at 1M turnover an extra 10k tt, say from 97% to 98%), then that by itself means money for X more mobs, inherently more chances

- dpp based (often comes paired with high eff): if 100 mobs cost 15% less, then that's again money for more loot chances; usually suitable for stackables imo

- dps based: all what matters is who pulls the most loot events per unit of time; my intuition would be this is better for items

Most likely all these have a quantity of truth in them. So is more like make a choice, also going with your own personal taste, just don't do silly extreme things (dunno, rocket launcher).

What I can recommend, if you said the finances are in decent shape. Look around for rental services. Right now events are lacking, so odds are you can take a few setups and try them and see how you feel them. Nomatter where you're inclined, some decent rings and a choice of ul amp (if it even exist for respective weapon, maybe something like hypercharged stuff) is something you'd need to look into anyway. Also, of course fap armour etc., but rather after you clarified a prefference for an weapon.

Between the mentioned directions I personally incline towards dpp rather than dps, but 1) i am rather inexperienced in hunting compared to high levels 2) i am a cheap a-hole. The classic critique would be if this good oil has a tt of 10 and you lower the cost under a threshold, don't you shoot your own foot by having too much dpp? My take is that actually there are options open for all styles and that there is no inherent penalty for one choice or the other, just to be coherent once you took a way. E.g. in my modest experience, desirable loot comes anyway in minis/globals/hofs, anyway plenty of tt to pull something good through and that there can never be too much dpp, is just a matter of how much you pay for it and where it reaches a silly level of expectations.

Anyway, nomatter what choice you make, you'll need to put in the hours and turnover to see the fruits. Of course, bankroll, five figures mandatory, alot of nowadays' economy revolves around looting stuff when it drops and selling when it doesn't drop so much.

That's all I can add from my modest experience, hope you can pull something useful from this and that I haven't went terribly wrong on anything. Gl hf
 

Thark

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Sorry for the late reply, got home from work late last night and didn't feel like writing anything - too many mails at work hihi

I did, and it works. I meant it could be used as sticky.
There should be created (if not already created) an thread with all new information a returning player should know about the game mechanincs up to date, instead of taking the discussion from zero all the time someone asks.
Great idea! *touches index finger to nose* Not it!

Check the official statements about loot 2.0 (linked in my sig)
Welcome back, have fun!
Thank you, thats what I was looking for!!

@Keram:
Thank you very much for the detailed answer! Really appreciate it. I got most of the efficiency stuff "figured" out. Seems fairly straight forward. Still the same theory crafting as always just with another value than before. That all makes sense to me.
The DPS/Enhancer/Tier thing was very informative. In fact, I didnt know that, and that was very valuable to me to know!
The DPP thing is still kind of unclear to me but I think that is because we simply dont know. I'll keep reading the relevant threads here and maybe I'll get it eventually. I might even do that test you talked about. Tho I think I'm fine with the general "higher DPP is better", because after browsing entropedia extensivly last night for the kind of weapon I'll be picking up, there is fairly little choice anyway. Basically its pay thru the nose for high eff /high dpp or go with a cheaper option, which is lower in both aspects. I can see ways to manipulate that kinda thing now tho. But as an FYI I feel like prioritizing dps for now for a few fairly specific reasons wich mostly relate to the way I like to play and what I chose to do. And get another noobie 2.0 weapon to farm some Codex stuff (like tantillions or sth xD) and see how the results differ for myself.

So in conclusion, I think I understand the loot stuff now, as well as I will before jumping into it myself. Thanks everyone! I understand boxes now too, as well as buffs.

That only really leaves:

1.) Is there a good way to track hunting results? Semi automatic excel sheet like?
2.) Someone got a list with all the buffs? Like: "Buff Name" - Item Limit - Action Limit - Total Limit ? If not, I'll write something up eventually
3.) Is there a trick to Entropedia to find all the items that give buffs in any form? Or maybe another List?

Thanks everyone, have a great day. Enjoy the holiday if you have it. GL

Cheers
 

Katie Chalmers

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Don’t get too hung in on weapon choice. Dpp has a lot less importance that it used to. Just run a 60ish efficiency / 2.9dpp UL weapon that is within your budget and dps requirement/skill level
Avoiding MU on L items is a lot more important than getting a high eff weapon.
To justify these high end weapons you really got to cycle hard. But they are worth the investment to many that do.

I personally use CDF token weapons for my ranged requirement, put an amp and extender on to reduce the decay per output damage and I always earn more tokens than I spend on resupply. And I consider the tokens to be free because I am selective with the daily’s I do, I only hunt the mobs that I wanted to hunt anyway. CDF pistols and higher ROF weapons will likely wear out too quick, however.

All the programs I have seen that automatically track TT in/out don’t seem to work properly, as these were all made years ago by players that have obviously lost interest with maintaining such a thing. Plus all of them are pretty restrictive, as they operate off the chat logs, you need to be in a team for it to even register.
Just use an excel spreadsheet that you make yourself, it will save you a lot of headaches.
 
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Tho I think I'm fine with the general "higher DPP is better"
It is better, more kills for the same amount of ped against someone with less dpp, and better loot composition. This means you roll the dice more times for even more of the high mu loot. For timeliness dps is important, so do sacrifice some dpp for it when necessary depending on the mob. Be wary of mobs that drop only TT food. Anyone claiming dpp is not something to be concerned of operates below the standard.

It is a game of large numbers. Of course it matters.

As for a couple other mentions, don't stay inactive for more than 1 year or your avatar will get purged. Both wiki and the forums are unreliable for the most part. You got a good foundation to start again on, actively trying for yourself should give you a better understanding than most people here can give you.
 

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It is better, more kills for the same amount of ped against someone with less dpp, and better loot composition. This means you roll the dice more times for even more of the high mu loot. For timeliness dps is important, so do sacrifice some dpp for it when necessary depending on the mob. Be wary of mobs that drop only TT food. Anyone claiming dpp is not something to be concerned of operates below the standard.

It is a game of large numbers. Of course it matters.

As for a couple other mentions, don't stay inactive for more than 1 year or your avatar will get purged. Both wiki and the forums are unreliable for the most part. You got a good foundation to start again on, actively trying for yourself should give you a better understanding than most people here can give you.

Of course you're right, but there's an aspect you miss.
The most important element is the MU of the mob we hunt, but the specificity is the TT value of the loot.
Sometimes increasing costs by 0.5% or 1% doubles the chances of certain items... which are actually our ultimate goal.
 

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Of course you're right, but there's an aspect you miss.
The most important element is the MU of the mob we hunt, but the specificity is the TT value of the loot.
Sometimes increasing costs by 0.5% or 1% doubles the chances of certain items... which are actually our ultimate goal.
I'm not too sure I understand the second line. as far as increasing cost, ive only found it necessary for the purpose of consistently getting drops in which the TT value is above the TT value of the item i am seeking. Which I almost never have to do anyway.
 

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3.) On those buff limits: is that "Action" limit
really only from pills? Or are there exceptions, like some weird Rocktopia unterpants or maybe those crit scopes or w/e?

Yes, from what I know, Action is for pills, fireworks, and probably chips (like acceleration one).

Pets are sadly considered as Item...


You can sign here if you think (like me) it's sad.. :whistle:
 

Thark

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Hihi, in general i think our pets should not be considered property but ill have a read about the entropia situation. Thx m8

At the others: lets stop the loot/eff/dpp w/e here plz, i got it, there are plenty of other threads to discuss this. If youd like to post links to them for google/search purposes, please do so but lets stop discussing it here.
 

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I'm not too sure I understand the second line. as far as increasing cost, ive only found it necessary for the purpose of consistently getting drops in which the TT value is above the TT value of the item i am seeking. Which I almost never have to do anyway.

The experiment with Monura Male and Female is very cheap, but indicative.

Male and Female hides are priced at 3 pek.

The cost of a kill is usually 5.5 pek, which means below 3 pek of return and we don't enter in the instance for these hides(ie decrease the chance a lot).Male skin is very common when we kill them with 0.06+ peks, but in standard killing (5 / 5.5 peks), skins are very rare.

Female skins are rare in general, and maybe that's why Ark has a place with both mobs ... to suggest the difference in the hunt for the wrong mob.

On the other hand, items that have a very low TT above example do not apply ... as with items of "wave" or absolute random.

I use this example for new players who ask what efficiency is. It increases the average TT return and maybe that's why we often have better prey than the normal setup. It gives the impression that it has a direct effect on MU's loot, but we just have to consider the cost of killing to have a better effect.

This, of course, has no effect on mobs like Exaros/Balzars, where Crits and the DPP have a greater effect for more kills, and the efficiency, although small, is negligible.

After a good selection of Weapon and Attachments to raise a bit the price of kills in Monura Male, the amount of hides for X-ped run double or more, but the cost is not so much in the end.

A quick effect of this test can be achieved when we oneshoot them with a 6 pek weapon, but then we pay more than normal and the price is not worth it.(ie. we will take more hides as normal, but for high price).

Still, the test with this mob is good because it shows the difference in quick kills; what is the effi and its impact; DPP... and DPS in the end if we have the right weapon.

Much depends on what we hunt. And of course, all this is absolute nonsense for people who pursue globals.
 

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As for a couple other mentions, don't stay inactive for more than 1 year or your avatar will get purged.
Just an FYI, this is not something they actively do, it is mentioned just so they can do it if necessary, but is not something that if your account remains inactive for 366 days, it's gone. I've left the game several times in the past for more than a year, the most recent time from Jan 2020 to last week and my account was still intact.
 

Thark

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Just an FYI, this is not something they actively do, it is mentioned just so they can do it if necessary, but is not something that if your account remains inactive for 366 days, it's gone. I've left the game several times in the past for more than a year, the most recent time from Jan 2020 to last week and my account was still intact.
I can confirm this, been inactive many times, even several years and your account is safe. at least 2.5y-ish if not more
 

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Just an FYI, this is not something they actively do, it is mentioned just so they can do it if necessary, but is not something that if your account remains inactive for 366 days, it's gone. I've left the game several times in the past for more than a year, the most recent time from Jan 2020 to last week and my account was still intact.
Thank you, this information was very helpful.
 
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